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Umfrage

How can the Dain Dilemma be resolved?

It does not need fixing.
4 (12.9%)
Restore Dain's Abilities to 4.3 and Switch the Ring Auras around.
19 (61.3%)
 Switch their Ring Auras
3 (9.7%)
Switch "Defend the Halls" and "Vendetta"
1 (3.2%)
Switch "Defend the Halls" and "Vendetta" and their Ring Auras. (Leave "Lord of the Iron Hills" and "Baruk Khazad!" as they currently are.)
3 (9.7%)
Other (Please Specify)
1 (3.2%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 28

Autor Thema: The Dain Dilemma  (Gelesen 7222 mal)

lordoflinks

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The Dain Dilemma
« am: 10. Aug 2016, 02:40 »
In the newest version of the Edain mod, Dain’s abilities were swapped around, meaning King Dain now has “Vendetta” and Young Dain has “Defend the Halls.” I disagree immensely with this change, because while it does bring the heroes in line with the role of their respective realm, it makes no sense from a lore perspective, being worse than the siege trolls in the Hobbit in my opinion.
Vendetta does not make much sense with Older King Dain as he defended Erebor against Rhun, while Younger King Dain did quite specifically lead the dwarves in a vendetta against the Elves. One final point is that Young Dain has a mount, hence meaning he is meant to be a mobile hero, and for the ring to completely change this role feels iffy, personally I think his powers should be enhanced not completely changed. Furthermore the fortress summon power is more suited for Erebor lorewise.
My suggestions are to:
  • Reverse Dain’s abilities to 4.3
  • their ring heroes auras should be exchanged to better fit with their overall roles, as YKD should not be locked to his base as this feels like a debuff to the character rather than a buff, he is a mobile hero after all.
  • Change King Dain to summon the Barracks/Fortress as it makes more sense for Erbeor to have it considering they are the center of Dwarven culture, by doing this it also allows Erbeor access to the other realms units in War of the Ring mode
  • Give Young Dain the summon ability, without the ring it summons Erebors basic unit, and the axe thrower, and Ered Luins basic unit and their ranged unit. With the ring it summons Erebors elite unit and Ered Luins elite unit, and their ranged units fully upgraded
I think a simple switch does make both Dains more viable, as it allows the Heroes to cover up their respective fractions weaknesses, makes them more lore friendly, and makes the ring viable for both.

One final suggestion, if you do not want to change it for balance reasons can you release it as a simple 'lore' sub mod as currently it feels like Old King Dain is leading the Iron Hills and Young Dain is leading Erebor when he gets the ring.
EDIT: Removed irrelevant suggestions
« Letzte Änderung: 5. Sep 2016, 08:21 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Julio229

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #1 am: 10. Aug 2016, 17:13 »
Totally agree, Young King Dáin should have Vendetta, it fits more his young version than his old.


kingsjewel

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #2 am: 10. Aug 2016, 19:57 »
Also I agree, young Dáin seems more agressive than the wise old King Dáin.

DrHouse93

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #3 am: 10. Aug 2016, 20:24 »
Nothing more to say about this, lordoflinks definitely expressed my exact thoughts about the matter

Odysseus

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #4 am: 15. Aug 2016, 07:07 »
I'm afraid I have to agree with the OP here. Take Erebor for instance, Dain was the only hero that could provide defensive abilities to the realm, but the abilities have now been swapped with Iron Hills Dain. I can understand that the ability kits were swapped for the sake of adhering to the focus of each Dwarven Realm, one defense, one offense, one speed, but this is really quickly falling into the one-trick pony trap. There is already very little versatility in the overall unit roster of Erebor, or Iron Hills, and now those last bits have been removed. Why, is my question?

There are times when Erebor cannot attack or be aggressive, but now they technically have very little to defend themselves with. I liked this versatility presented by the faction leader, providing contrasting benefits to the realm's specific playstyle.

Furthermore, I have not seen any topic in the internal English beta forums about swapping the roles of Iron Hills Dain and Erebor Dain. Why was our opinion not asked for? It's a pretty significant change after all, and it totally came out of the blue. I gave it a try, but it left a bitter taste in my mouth in the end. I hope the change can be reverted in the future.

Apart from that, I don't have anything to add regarding the ring system, just the fact that it still needs some finetuning, but ET knows.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #5 am: 16. Aug 2016, 12:35 »
I for one too absolutely agree with the OP.

If I wasn't busy I myself would have created a Thread about this.

It is just not lore wise and logical for Old King Dain to be so "reckless" and straight forward when he is a Wise and Experienced Warrior and King,while the Young Lord Dain is better Warrior and more "reckless" being young and thursty for Revenge. Also the Skills Old Dain had are much more suitable for Erebor as Middle Kingdom with Good Defense and Offensive while his Wise King provides good Defense Abilities based on how he led then trough Erebor Seige ,while OHs with his Offensive behavior with how Dain immediately Martched with 500 of the Elite of his Army to fight at Erebor shows his Battle Ready Character in his Youth,although still good leader he is more of a Warrior. Not to mention IHs being mainly Defebsive Realm is really good supported with little DMG boost by their Leader! :-)

This is my opinion on the matter.! :-)

Greetings from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :-)
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lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #6 am: 20. Aug 2016, 10:17 »
Is there any official word on this topic?
And what do people think of replacing Young Dain's Barracks ability with Thorin's company as a summon?
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Radagast der Musikalische

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #7 am: 20. Aug 2016, 14:55 »
I would say that is rather unlikely that we will add Thorin's company in regal armour as summon due to the effort-benefit ratio. This would mean that we have to create 13 new models, even more skins and lots of coding.

Odysseus

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #8 am: 20. Aug 2016, 17:47 »
Hmm, what about the other topic though. There is some stern criticism towards the switching the kits of both faction leaders. Even after some 4.4.1 games, I think most of us are still of the opinion that the change was not a good one and that it is highly recommended to revert it.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Julio229

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #9 am: 20. Aug 2016, 17:54 »
To expand on my little post (I wrote almost nothing  :D), I have to say I agree with everything here. Right now, it feels like Young Dáin has magically grown old and come to live to Erebor and Old Dáin has found the secret of eternal youth and has abandoned the Mountain. Their abilities (except for the mount/carriage) are completely switched up, and one of the most astounding is the barracks one. I believe Iron Hills Dáin shouldn't have the power to construct a Barrack for all the realms, it should be Old Dáin's ability because he has a lot more power within the Dwarves.


Radagast der Musikalische

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #10 am: 20. Aug 2016, 19:00 »
Our intention behind the exchange of the abilities is simple:
Every dwarven sub-faction has a different basic focus and the king and main support hero shouldn't act contrary to the basic direction of the faction, but strenghten its main focus. I know that many of you think that this contradicts the portrayal of Daín in BotFA, but we cannot base every concept on the movie adaptions, especially if it doesn't fit the main conception of the sub-faction. I cannot rule out that we might change some abilities, but I'm pretty sure that we will keep the current basic focus.

-DJANGO-

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #11 am: 20. Aug 2016, 19:02 »
Zitat
I liked this versatility presented by the faction leader, providing contrasting benefits to the realm's specific playstyle.
  - Totally agree here!
Not only lore wise speaking, but also balance wise the switch was a wrong decision imo.

Especially Iron Hills needs speed abilities to compensate their weakness (for example, thats why im fine having them extra cav in form of ram riders)!
Erebor could nicely compensate their amor weakness with their main Hero. They dont need speedbuffs since they are in between ered luin & ironhills speed.
So at least switching Dains abilities back would be great. Atm their weaknesses are just too exposed.
With Ered Luin OP-Hero changes and Dain changes, Iron Hills and Erebor are now even weaker as they were before, compared to Ered Luin.
- THE EAGLES ARE COMING -

Odysseus

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #12 am: 20. Aug 2016, 21:15 »
I apologise for repeating myself, and Radagast is not responsible for such changes, so he should not be the one to take the brunt of our disapproval.

Nevertheless, as Django pointed out, in the current state, both realms have taken a relatively big hit to their flexibility and their strength to adapt to certain situations. Because of this change, the reliance on runes and towers is bigger than it should be, in my opinion, and it makes the factions more monotonous.

The majority of fans were very pleased with the previous implementation of the Old King Dain and Young King Dain. Furthermore, I cannot really remember reading many or any balance complaints on the English forums here. It was generally accepted and there were no complaints about it being broken, so I really do not understand why such a change was apparently necessary. It wasn't broken and didn't need fixing.

Currently, on the competitive level, people play Ered Luin the most, and if they don't they should, because they have by far the better heroes and more versatility than the other two dwarven realms combined. Compared to Ered Luin, the others are kind of one-trick ponies and feel a little boring/bland, in which the previous Dains provided some versatility to combat that blandness. To continue, Ered Luin can stage many plays via flanks and charges mitigating their frailty to a certain extent via pure speed, but the other factions had their leaders provide some sustenance. Especially Erebor, my main concern is Erebor, because they are an offensive faction, but they have the speed of a defensive one. If you want to be on the offensive, speed is just as crucial as attack. Iron Hills can soak up all the damage and still do decent damage on their own and therefore outlast a fight, but Erebor really hasn't anything particularly outstanding apart from the previous implementation of Old King Dain. Their damage is nothing insane, and their primary source of late-game sustain has now been removed. Dwarves are known for their tankiness, and to all degrees should have some of it in each faction that concerns Dwarves. This is just my point of view though, and I can imagine that it could be interpreted differently.

Dwarves were only OP in the previous iterations because they could get infinite heroic batallions (so glad that's gone), but the rest was fine really. I hope the Lord of Mordor hears our pleas :P
« Letzte Änderung: 20. Aug 2016, 21:18 von Odysseus »
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Walküre

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #13 am: 20. Aug 2016, 21:22 »
I know that many of you think that this contradicts the portrayal of Daín in BotFA, but we cannot base every concept on the movie adaptions, especially if it doesn't fit the main conception of the sub-faction.

It may sound a bit naïve, but my personal heart-based feeling is that Dáin (as the Lord of the Iron Hills) should go back to his past design, though gameplay-inaccurate it could be in regards to the new changes.

Contrary to the usual LOTR-based heroes and their relative factions, Dáin is a bit of an exception in the Mod: his graphical design and conceptual elements are completely fashioned on BOTFA and this fact is exactly what recreates the whole Iron Hills motive from the Hobbit trilogy (along with the overhauled units) in the actual game. The reference to the particularity of that film is of paramount importance to the entire faction's essence (undoubtedly, what people enjoy about this Dwarven realm).

Of course, it's not that Dáin's concept has been totally deprived of all of those properties overnight. In my opinion, though, sticking to the BOTFA atmosphere as much as we can is a central issue; that is, stressing firmly his primary war-lord characterisation as the old design did so well. These are just my sincere thoughts on the matter  :)

kingsjewel

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #14 am: 20. Aug 2016, 22:44 »
Is there any official word on this topic?
And what do people think of replacing Young Dain's Barracks ability with Thorin's company as a summon?
I think the problem is that Thorin and the company are available in an another dwarf faction. It wouldn't be 'too much'?

lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #15 am: 20. Aug 2016, 23:04 »
Is there any official word on this topic?
And what do people think of replacing Young Dain's Barracks ability with Thorin's company as a summon?
I think the problem is that Thorin and the company are available in an another dwarf faction. It wouldn't be 'too much'?
I think it is fine myself, as I think it fits Young Dain better than magically calling warriors from The Blue Mountains and Erebor. Could it be considered if they weren't in their regal armor? Of course I am fine if someone can come up with a better ability for him.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Radagast der Musikalische

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #16 am: 21. Aug 2016, 03:38 »
I apologise for repeating myself, and Radagast is not responsible for such changes, so he should not be the one to take the brunt of our disapproval.

I may not be the one who had the idea in the first place, but we discussed this ability swap in the team and decided together that it would be better. This is why it is absolutely fine that I'm the one who "takes the brunt". ;)

Back on Topic:

Summon of Thorin's company:
An implementation of Thorin's company as summon is highly unlikely, because they should be recruitable in Ered Luin only. We always try to give each faction exclusive heroes that are only available in this particular faction.

Daíns ability swap:
I've often read that it is not lore wise, but the portrayal of Daín as "badass warrior" in BotFA is just an adaption and not the lore. We know that Daín is a great warrior, but it is uncertain whether his fighting style is rather offensive or rather defensive. Furthermore, the model for the young Daín and the whole Iron Hills army is intentionally more heavily armoured than their Erebor counterpart to underline the focus on defense. Therefore, it is unlikely that we will change the basic roles.
But the abilities are not carved in stone and we would appreciate suggestions and ideas. However, they should go well with the basic roles.

Weaknesses of Erebor/Iron Hills:
As we haven't received any complaints from the German community by now, we would like to wait for more feedback. If it is the common opinion that Erebor and Iron Hills have too many weaknesses due to the ability swap, we will most likely find a solution to fix this and keep the roles at the same time.

Odysseus

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #17 am: 21. Aug 2016, 04:03 »
So, what if we switch around one of the abilities for each Dain? That way, both Dains will have both offensive and defensive abilities and we would have a compromise.

I think the most fitting candidates for abilities to be switched around between both Dains are:
1. The defensive leadership that is now on young king Dain.
2. The invulnerability near structures
3. Baruk Khazad
4. Vendetta

If two of these abilities are interchanged between the Dains (one of each Dain), I think we could solve the issue at hand. Personally, I'd like to see the defensive leadership on Erebor. The rest I am open about.

Any thoughts?
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Julio229

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #18 am: 21. Aug 2016, 04:07 »
Maybe Baruk Khazad and the defensive leadership? It would help fitting Young Dáin's fighter nature and Old Dáin's defensive nature (With the Defense of Dale and all of that)

Edit: I also believe their summoning abilities should be swapped.


lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #19 am: 21. Aug 2016, 05:38 »
I've removed Thorin's Company from the main post to update it.
I think Vendetta and Defend the Halls! should be switched around, and their ring auras should also. It feels criminal to restrict Young Dain on his mount to his base. The way I see it, Erebor is slower overall as they do not have rams so giving them defense would aid them.
Could this issue be cultural, as no one of the English forums has disagreed with restoring them to 4.3 status?
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

-DJANGO-

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #20 am: 21. Aug 2016, 13:29 »
Zitat
If it is the common opinion that Erebor and Iron Hills have too many weaknesses due to the ability swap, we will most likely find a solution to fix this and keep the roles at the same time.
- I appreciate that.

I don't think it is impossible to balance Erebor and Iron Hills keeping the Dain's roles as they are now. But imo it is the way more difficult road to go! Strengthen Iron Hills tankiness and Erebors attack strength just more and more can end on a very thin line between being still useless or overpowered.
E.g.: Iron Hills gets more tankiness to compensate their slow speed; now they can still be (just too slow) not enough tank resulting in being outranged or being torn apart whilst retreating - or they are that armor buffed that they just can't be killed no more.
Same goes for Erebor; i compare them in the following to Lorien (the Elvish attack faction): while Lorien has high attack, low amor and speed to retreat or surprise the enemy, Erebor would have great attack buffs but low amor and "normal" slow dwarven speed. I think this combination is not that great and difficult to balance because they can turn out so strong that nobody fights them in melee but also outranges them to the ground.
All in all i see many difficulties in finding a balaced line here, while strengthen their basic roles. Atm these efforts made Iron Hills and Erebor lose a great amount of their flexibility. In my opinion it would be way more easier to give Iron Hills exclusive and "difficult/late to get" Speed abilities, like late Hero abilities, Ram Riders...
; while Erebor in the same way a few Amor abilities that would fit to the standard dwraven tankiness. I would NOT give them speed, that would make them exactly like Lorien! Another idea which is being discussed in the German Section and could be taken into consideration, is to distinguish the Upgrades (Blades/Amor..) of each Edain faction a bit more (logically only when all factions are released). That could mean for Erebor getting a bit more amor through the Amor-Upgrade of the Dwarfs.

But of course i'm open to be surprised by the Edain Team with a balanced solution that strengthens Erebors & Iron Hills basic role.  ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 21. Aug 2016, 13:34 von -DJANGO- »
- THE EAGLES ARE COMING -

kingsjewel

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #21 am: 21. Aug 2016, 16:39 »

Is there any official word on this topic?
And what do people think of replacing Young Dain's Barracks ability with Thorin's company as a summon?
I think the problem is that Thorin and the company are available in an another dwarf faction. It wouldn't be 'too much'?
I think it is fine myself, as I think it fits Young Dain better than magically calling warriors from The Blue Mountains and Erebor. Could it be considered if they weren't in their regal armor? Of course I am fine if someone can come up with a better ability for him.
]

Unfortunately I really don't know a strong ability like Thorin's. Thorin was greedy and he wanted the Arkenstone, these are the base of his abilities. The young Dáin in the movie was a warrior and a leader of an army, just that is what we know.

Maybe can he summon his war chariot or the siege weapons of the extended version?
« Letzte Änderung: 21. Aug 2016, 16:42 von kingsjewel »

lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #22 am: 25. Aug 2016, 10:15 »
I have added a poll to the topic in order to gain statistical results for the team and get a batter appreciation of which solution people are in favour of.
Please vote.
EDIT: I know this is a lot to ask, but if anyone speaks German at all, do you think you could throw this idea up in their section of the forum. I think it is best if we get both sides perspective on this issue.
In addition the difference between the 2nd and 3rd option of the poll is that the 3rd proposes to leave "Lord of the Iron Hills" and "Baruk Khazad!" as they currently are.
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Aug 2016, 11:04 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #23 am: 31. Aug 2016, 07:24 »
I seem to have made a grave error.
When I writing my suggestion I had presumed both versions of Dain were able to summon the barracks, which is not so, only Young Dain is. Another error is that while the barracks is enhanced into the fortress, the summon King Dain gets is not enhanced by the ring at all. Hence I have updated my OP post to reflect this. Also can the person who voted other specify what 'other' is for them.
I also would like the team to know in light of the above information I support reverting the abilities  completely, and have changed the poll so I am counted in said category as my initial vote has been tainted by a misunderstanding on my part and is invalid and does not reflect my true opinion. 
Also as the Team shows little interests in this I have trying to change it in my personal copy of the mod, and have been running into problems, if anyone could help see here:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33837.0.html 
« Letzte Änderung: 31. Aug 2016, 07:34 von lordoflinks »
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Julio229

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #24 am: 1. Sep 2016, 16:23 »
Wanted to add this to the Dáin discussion, I planned to put it on General suggestions but it is all about Dáin, so I'll put it here:

I wanted to say something about Ring Heroes. Currently, I feel most of them are awesome, and I can understand the Witch King not having new abilities because of his debuffs to the enemy, but I don't feel the same about Dwarven Heroes. Currently, when I play Iron Hills, I try to avoid taking the ring at all costs, because even if it is a defensive faction, he feels like he's only useful for Fortress defense because of his 50% losses if he's not near an enemy building. His other abilities are awesome, and being able to train units from the Hall Of Warriors instantly is great, but I don't know, maybe Dáin should have fewer debuffs. Ring Heros are, if my beliefs are correct, meant to turn the tide in a game and give advantages, it is strange when you can't use this Hero except when he stays at the Fortress, making him as static as the Scholars in 3.8.1 Imladris and Erestor if I recall correctly, that were always in the Fortress.

Just my opinion, though. I believe normal Dáin's abilities should be reversed to 4.3, and I wanted to add this about his Ring Hero form. Anyways, The Edain Team always does a great job, and I love that!

EDIT: To add something more, I don't feel Erebor Ring Dáin is like Iron Hills, his ability to double allied units damage it's great, and he is going to be with the army anyway in his current role, so he's not as hampered (I believe that's the word, correct me if I'm wrong) as Iron Hills Dáin.
« Letzte Änderung: 1. Sep 2016, 16:28 von Julio229 »


lordoflinks

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #25 am: 5. Sep 2016, 08:19 »
A few days ago I saw a comment thread on Mod DB, where people were voicing their opinions that the current ring aura of Iron Hills Dain was pushing them to avoid the ring. In my opinion if they are avoiding a item that should be good for them it is bad design.
I think a simple switch does make both Dains more viable, as it allows the Heroes to cover up their respective fractions weaknesses, makes them more lore friendly, and makes the ring viable for both.
I think at this point the vast majority who care about the Dwarfs would prefer a switch back to 4.3, as seen by the poll.
DieWalküre- Is the OP Post clear enough, or should I edit it a bit? I'm unsure...
 
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


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Dain@

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Re: The Dain Dilemma
« Antwort #26 am: 16. Dez 2016, 11:23 »
Hi people !

I fully share your opinion and misunderstanding that Dine in Edain modes 4.4. clearly she became weaker and incomprehensible in terms of the game. I will not repeat all that has been said before you just add that I think that should get accustomed Dine certain changes to ensure that it corresponds to the book and its role in the faction. I have suggested a couple of ideas (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34206.0.html), I hope they will like the developers.