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Autor Thema: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback  (Gelesen 5742 mal)

Walküre

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Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« am: 15. Aug 2016, 17:08 »
I opened this thread to give anyone the concrete opportunity to provide constructive feedback on the recent Ultimate Skill Cup, on the organisation of the events and on the handling of the very tournament by the people in-chief of doing that.

As I felt that a peaceful and useful debate no longer had the right premises to continue in the previous topic, I thus decided to reset everything and start again. Therefore, you are consequently and sincerely invited to express yourselves in decent manners and contribute meaningfully to the development of the debate (even when you are to affirm negative thoughts): no one is then to be put on a pyre and be slain, if you think that there were issues in the competition. I'm sure we are all mature enough to discern the just path in dealing with this thread, and to find a balance between criticism and suggestions for possible improvements.

Contrary to what is stated in the other thread, I hope that Elite will opt to join the discussion too, given that he's the one who took care of everything related to this tournament; and it would honestly be quite unfair if he couldn't defend his positions and reply to other people's remarks. I hope the debate will focus also on giving advices, in hopes that future initiatives of this sort are to still be planned in the future.

The rules of the forum entitle me to ensure that the above-mentioned conditions are successfully met. Should there be the need to, I will edit the posts that don't respect these guidelines and even delete them if the circumstances require it. I can only rely on your co-operation and well-intentioned will of making something positive out of all of this.

Idrial12

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #1 am: 15. Aug 2016, 18:21 »
Thank you Walküre for opening the new thread.

Even though I am going to repeat myself I will shortly write down in bulletpoints what was in my opinion wrong about the CUP:

in general:
- The CUP was scheduled for 6/7 August but was also played on the following weekend
- The first matches were delayed by around 4 hours
- The Semi finals were postponed by 1 full day 1 hour before the original start
- No one ever knew when he had to play. You had to stay online the whole time
- There was no thread about playing times, even though that is of interest to everyone (players and viewers)

The "final":
- I was expected to play the final vs Goodfella immediately after my Semi final vs Elite Kryptik (nobody can concentrate on playing edain for 4hours)

- I couldn't play because I had an important appointment the next morning and Elite didn't shift the final even though I was the rightful final participant

- Yes he offered me to nominate someone but firstly how should I spontanously find a "champion" for me and secondly it is not fair to let someone else play a final. (Its like I didn't study for the test I will let my bigger sister write it for me --> cheating)

- Elite chose Phyton (I think he didn't even participate the tournament and I don't even know him) to play the final for me instead of shifting the final to next weekend

I am pretty sure that a lot of others see that I was deprived. What would be the problem about shifting the cup 1 more weekend? Don't you guys want to see a real final instead of a match "Goodfella vs random Edain Player?"

It also felt weird that Elite said he will not postpone the cup (even though he did 2 times already) just after I won against him... (I do not want to impute something it just feels weird)


How should I manage to have spare time for a match that was postponed 2 times? When I registered for the cup I made sure I am free on 6/7 August. I canceled meetings on 13th August just to find out the semi finals are postponed. And than I am requested to play 4hours edain in a row? until midnight? With an Appointment the next morning that has been set a long time ago?

I am really sorrowful about the course of the tournament :(

Greetings Idrial :( :( :(

Viele Frauen wissen nicht, was sie wollen, aber sie sind fest entschlossen, es zu bekommen.

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #2 am: 15. Aug 2016, 20:18 »
You won against Elite? Interesting. I'd love to see the replay, where can I find it? It's not on Kryptik's channel, that's why I ask :P.

I think this is the first time Elite and Daemon organised a tournament, right? If so, it's a little naive to expect the tournament organisation to go without any issues. Not meant in an offensive way, of course. Even the bigger cups occasionally experience some hiccups, causing people to forfeit, leave, be replaced etc. I get the impression that most of these situations occured during the last few moments of the tournament. It should always be made clear in advance.

However, if what Idrial claims is true, I'd be pretty upset myself too. I hope that all these issues that were experienced will be taken into consideration for the organisation of the next cup, so that they can prevented from occuring then.

Playing times rendered in some kind of bracket system is the basis of organising a tournament usually. I'd be surprised if that wasn't done this time around, you can usually find a generator online or make one yourself at home with some paper scraps. Try DOW II Elite mod, they organise small weekly and larger monthly rumble tournaments where people give small donations to organise the bracket system and grant prizes to the winners, like games etc. It's very well done. Casters and streamers usually have a bracket system including times to show to their viewers.

Finally, concerning Idrial's situation, I see two ways to grant some compensation:
1. Explain your situation to the team and hopefully, with a bit of luck, ET will help you with your current issue, because it is quite clear to see that you really wanted to be part of the beta testing team and being replaced by a random player, or one that is not of your choosing, is really frustrating. It is, after all, in the best of interests for both the organisers and the players of the tournament that the experience of the participants proceeds as smoothly as possible.
2. Redo the finals sometime in the future and decide from there.

I hope I could contribute to the post in some way. Please try to keep it civil as has been said.

Kind regards.
“For so sworn good or evil an oath may not be broken and it shall pursue oathkeeper and oathbreaker to the world's end.”

Sawman

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #3 am: 16. Aug 2016, 00:24 »
As a player and a commentator for the tournament I felt the way it was set up was fine 30 min time limit was what most games went to, we never had to end a game early. The hiccups at the start were understandable first time hosts for a tournament it happens.

As for Idrials case I can understand that you would have felt cheated but I was there for the semi finals and the finals, and everyone but you was ready to go we tried to explain to you that no one else wanted to wait a whole other week just to play one match, but I've seen you play and I have played with your replacement Python many times and in my opinion you two are on the same level of skill so I really don't think the game would have gone any different (no offense)

Oerall I liked the tournament and that I had a chance to be apart of it hopefully next time they can work out the kinks and it can go a lot smoother next time

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #4 am: 16. Aug 2016, 01:42 »
Regarding the bracket, one was indeed setup, and we stuck to it as best we could. Also, the games of myself against Idrial will be up on my channel later this week, I can't upload things instantaeneously when I now have a job to work as well. Finally, regarding playing times, I posted multiple videos on it on my youtube channel, and I was very communicative with the skype group.
When I first created the tournament, I asked very cearly that everybody give me their skype details, not only for interviews but so I could create a skype group. If you had not completely ignored this request Idrial, you would have been far more up to date on all of the happenings within the tournament. I also share the sentiment of Sawman that the end result would have been the same.

Here are all of my posts explaining what went wrong with the tournament. I'm not going to continue repeating myself after this. This is my last post on this issue, and I think this entire thing has been blown way out of proportion. Keep in mind these are directly copy pasted from this thread: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33763.0.html
So some things may seem out of place on this new thread.

1st post:
Zitat
2nd post:
Zitat
3rd and final post:
Zitat
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Idrial12

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #5 am: 16. Aug 2016, 08:16 »
@Sawman
but I was there for the semi finals and the finals, and everyone but you was ready to go we tried to explain to you that no one else wanted to wait a whole other week just to play one match, but I've seen you play and I have played with your replacement Python many times and in my opinion you two are on the same level of skill so I really don't think the game would have gone any different (no offense)

- I was the only one with an important appointment the next morning
- Never heared such a ridiculous argument sorry  xD
idea for the next tournament: you just create the bracket draw and based on Sawmans und Elites opinion a winner will be determined and free beta access for the winner /irony off

And yet you never stated why you did shift the tournament everytime but not for the final I am pretty sure the only one who didn't want to see the real final and therefore did not want to shift it was you Elite.

I received several pns from people who stated it is senseless to argue with you Elite and I totally feel that way. I am desperate and don't know what to do...

It honestly feels like you do not even try bring up serious arguments on this case

what do the others think? How would you feel in my situation?

greetings Idrial  :(
Viele Frauen wissen nicht, was sie wollen, aber sie sind fest entschlossen, es zu bekommen.

bsarthas

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #6 am: 16. Aug 2016, 11:27 »
Really a strange little discussion. i was just a viewer.  i just wanted to see some good matches.  to be honest ordinary replay would be.. better then the stream was..

 the first weekend was  ok.. just one of you three had a really bad mic.. was terrible to listen.

but the smei final and final.. was just  horrible.. the sound was nearly gone  i didnt understand a thing.  and something  ididnt like the screen was just the half and the other half a screensave  something

 to the final situation. kinda like my own chose of words.

i really find the solution you chosed wrong. because the winner of the cup  got beta access? and then you can just give this chance on a final match  to get this beta access ot something random. something just you chose?

not someone who  made their way throw the tournament?

so i can accept little experience and.. maybe the sound problems.

 but with this decision even with a good thoughts in mind.. was just awful wrong
you cant just take something random.
and you cant justify it with.. nobody wanted to wait any longer... yes you can.. but.. it dosnt make it legit .. if your friend had won vs goodfella. maybe out of luck.. or maybe fella had just a bad day..

he had got beta access without even participate in the whole tournament.. except.. hey wait he had a get to final for free ticket


BUuuuuttt to make that clear.. i really love it that we had a english tournament too. i would love to see like it just. in the right way ;)

Darkayah

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #7 am: 16. Aug 2016, 13:04 »
Zitat
what do the others think? How would you feel in my situation?

My short answer to this topic:

I think in the worst case the Leader of the tournament could wait one or Two days. Because all of the contestants were there to have fun. It is in other (Fun) tournaments so, too.

But I'm as viewer have to Agree with bsarthas:

The quality and the organization were not really good.
I hope you learn and the next tournament is better than this.

« Letzte Änderung: 16. Aug 2016, 13:08 von Beautiful Darkness »
Grüße Darkayah

Of old blood, magic, fire and darkness!
The old blood will unite them all, but causes the  world to be destroyed!
-Prophecy of Valarya

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Lord of Mordor

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #8 am: 16. Aug 2016, 14:22 »
This appears to be simply an unfortunate situation where both sides have valid points and neither is really at fault. I find it very understandable that the tournament hosts did not want to postpone the finale any further after it had already been delayed several times through circumstances  beyond their control. The effort it takes to organize such a tournament should not be underestimated, especially for people who have never done it before. You won't get everything right the first time, you'll have to make some difficult decisions in the heat of the moment when things go wrong and many things you'll only have learned after having gone through all that once.

That said, Idrial also has a valid grievance here. No matter the circumstances, she was deprived of her chance to compete for a beta after working hard to get into the finale, and she could not have foreseen that the tournament which was originally scheduled for the previous Saturday only would continue until Sunday evening (keep in mind that German time is six hours behind Eastern Standard time, so it was a lot later for her than for some other participants).

We have decided that the best way to resolve this is to make an exception this time and grant two beta prizes, one for Idrial and one for GoodFella. This way, we hope nobody will walk away from the tournament too disappointed. After all, we're always happy to see fans step up and organize events like this and want to do our best to support them and see the scene grow. We hope to see many more tournaments in the future, each one better than the last :)
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Fine

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #9 am: 16. Aug 2016, 14:32 »
We have decided that the best way to resolve this is to make an exception this time and grant two beta prizes, one for Idrial and one for GoodFella. This way, we hope nobody will walk away from the tournament too disappointed. After all, we're always happy to see fans step up and organize events like this and want to do our best to support them and see the scene grow. We hope to see many more tournaments in the future, each one better than the last :)

This is probably the best solution to all of this. Great move.

I appreciate the effort done by the players who were in charge of the tournament, it surely was alot of work to pull of. As others have said, if there are more tournaments coming, I'm sure the problems of this one will be avoided next time.
RPG:

Elite KryPtik

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #10 am: 16. Aug 2016, 14:35 »
Well thats pretty awesome of you LoM! Hopefully that can resolve this situation. We should probably clarify as well that the beta access only technically counts towards the next beta, and runs out after that, which is something I wasn't aware of till recently :P

I can assure you all, if I should ever want to organize another tournament again after this disaster, everything WILL go according to plan.

1 thing I would like to say that people don't seem to understand, if Python had won, he was playing on behalf of Idrial, and SHE would have won the beta access. He was filling in for her, not becoming the finalist himself. Additionally Idrial, I already said that we never rescheduled any of the matches by choice, it was done because of technical or unforseen circumstances. I hope you have actually been reading what I have been posting down here. So moving on, if its cool with everybody, can we close this thread and get back to normal forum discussion?
Arise! Arise, Riders of Theoden! Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter! Spear shall be shaken! Shield shall be splintered! A sword day, a red day, ere the sun rises! Ride now! Ride now! Ride, ride to ruin, and the worlds ending! FORTH EORLINGAS!

Walküre

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #11 am: 16. Aug 2016, 15:16 »
This is probably the best solution to all of this. Great move.

+1

It really seems that a just settlement has finally been found. I'm very relieved that this thread has served us well in regards of the reasonable purposes we wanted to achieve  :)

I can assure you all, if I should ever want to organize another tournament again after this disaster, everything WILL go according to plan.

Left aside the issues you faced and this dispute, it is nonetheless significant by itself that you decided to pursue your personal project and involve the Edain Community in this tournament. I would say that it would have been a disaster if you had not learnt from mistakes and thus had not found the motivation to improve yourself even more. I'm sure most of the people appreciate deeply your efforts in making all of this possible (flaws or not), and I hope you will realise it too  ;)

In my opinion, it should be better if this discussion remained open for a brief amount of time still. Someone might have something else to say left (whether it be additional remarks or final considerations). But, if no one is intended to add anything further, I will legitimately close the topic.

Darkayah

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #12 am: 16. Aug 2016, 15:22 »
Zitat
This is probably the best solution to all of this. Great move.

I agree with that.
Grüße Darkayah

Of old blood, magic, fire and darkness!
The old blood will unite them all, but causes the  world to be destroyed!
-Prophecy of Valarya

Lust auf eine alternative Mittelerde Geschichte und dazu ein RPG? ?
Der Thron von Mittelerde

Idrial12

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #13 am: 16. Aug 2016, 19:37 »
Thank you very,very much LoM or rather Edain Team!  :)
If nobody is against it I will accept the Beta-Access.

In particular it wasn't for me about the Beta-Access but how I was threated with regard to the final. I still can not see a real reason the game wasn't shifted or why I was kinda forced to play or be replaced. I am still not satisfied with Elites' reaction but I also do not want to bother anyone anymore with this topic.

I also have to say that Goodfella wrote me a pm that we can have an inofficial final. In case we are playing the "final" we will upload the replay to MU.
I just wanted to point out that Goodfella can't be blamed for anything. (I know nobody did yet but it is important for me to point that out)

So Thanks very much Edain Team and thanks to everyone who showed understanding for me :) :)

Greetings,
Idrial
Viele Frauen wissen nicht, was sie wollen, aber sie sind fest entschlossen, es zu bekommen.

Walküre

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Re: Ultimate Skill Cup: Discussion and Feedback
« Antwort #14 am: 18. Aug 2016, 04:45 »
The purpose of the thread has been eventually fulfilled, along with the dispute having finally been settled. I can now close the topic, for I don't think any additional (and useful) remark about the case is likely to be provided and I can't see why it should be so; the main parties involved have also expressed their will not to continue the discussion further (having come to a just conclusion).

May this serve as an example of how to give constructive criticism, and how to solve issues in the civil way the forum rules expect any of us to behave.

--- LOCKED ---