Female dwarf CaH

[kingsjewel]

Incurred an idea that could be female dwarf CaH class too. That's true the lore doesn't say too much about dwarven women,  I mean we don't know they fight or not. But I think it would be an interesting idea. WETA also made concepts about dwarven women:

[Odysseus]

That actually looks pretty cool. Hairy women, love it XD!

[TheAss4ss1n]

That actually looks pretty cool. Hairy women, love it XD!

absolutely made my day <3

but do we really need this? I think the team is working on a lot more important changes ^^
in my opinion they shouldn`t waste their time on this, sorry

[d0m0a]

Well, it could be a good, but at the same time odd, idea.

After all, ever Gimli admits that, ever if there are male and female dwarven, they're extremely similar between similar by the beard and the voice. And thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the military units of the dwarven are females. After all, for how the dwarf said, is impossible to differentiate them as male and female at first view. Well, impossible except for the dwarven, of course.

[Walküre]

I think the team is working on a lot more important changes ^^
in my opinion they shouldn`t waste their time on this, sorry

They are certainly working on more important priorities. But promising ideas might always hide in 'secondary' threads, that you would hardly ever expect to result in such innovative concepts. Even when it comes to this topic 

[kingsjewel]

Naturally this idea is not priority. Just an idea 

EDIT: Somebody mentioned on the Moddb there are few female characters in the CaH. Orc or troll female would be worst, I think it would work better with the dwarves. Already there are female CaH among the Humans and Elves.

[Elite KryPtik]

I think this is a cool idea, but as mentioned before there are other priorities right now.

Please make sure to use the edit feature kingsjewel, double posting is against the rules.

[kingsjewel]

I think this is a cool idea, but as mentioned before there are other priorities right now.

Please make sure to use the edit feature kingsjewel, double posting is against the rules.

Double posting? Sorry, I didn't know. I wanted to edit the post because one of the pictures wasn't shown.

[Walküre]

Double posting? Sorry, I didn't know. I wanted to edit the post because one of the pictures wasn't shown.

It concerns your previous comment. It's not permitted by the rules to post two or more consecutive comments within 24 hours. Anyway, I already solved the issue and edited your post myself 

[LordDainIronfoot]

I am absolutely against this!  Dwarven Females were so rare and small in number,that people thought they didn't even exist so it is highly unlikely they would venture or become warriors!

Not to mention the Lored fact there is only one Female Dwarf with name and that is Thorin sister,they are not even mentioned let alone being Heroes and such. I find it completely ridiculous and unnecessary waste of work and time to create something which doesn't even "exist" in the Books. They are just of no importance that even Tolkien didn't pay attention to them! So them being Heroes and Leaders is hilarious to me at least ,that's of course is my personal opinion on the matter! :-)

Greetings from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :-)

[WarOfTheRingVeteran]

Short opinion: no.

Longer version:

Okay, Dwarven females (excluding the fact that they looked almost indistinguishable from male Dwarves) were making up only the third of a Dwarven population, and male Dwarves always protected them from any kind danger, so rarely would they go fight in battles.

But other than that, that would really be a waste of time for Edain Team.

[Elite KryPtik]

I find it funny that you think that its a waste of time to create a female dwarven CAH class Dain, when you have so heavily supported adding in the dwarven war chariot from the film, which is also non canon and not in any book. Indeed Dwarves are said to be terrified of any and all animals and refuse to ride horses or keep pets, or even farm animals. I think you should come up with some better reasoning than "They are never mentioned officially" as there are MANY things in the Edain Mod which take liberties with the lore.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I find it more believable for Dwarves to use Animals than send the few Females they have to fight,I find it way possible for Dwarves to use War Machines like Chariots when others Use Ballista,than that suddenly their Females being great warriors or leaders.

Same as Lightbringers,they are not canon but I don't mind them because they have some "basis" from Elves being the most Magic Related and so on...

It is up to the Team if they will Create This CaH and they can decide if it is a waste of time and effort or not,I am simply stating my opinion and why is that my opinion! :-)

Greetings! :-)

[Fine]

"There are few dwarf-women, probably no more than a third of the whole people. They seldom walk abroad except at great need.  They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart."

Quoting this off the top of my head, so some words may be inaccurate. But that quote is my lore reason why we don't need a female dwarven CaH - simply use the male, they look the same.

[Darkayah]

But that quote is my lore reason why we don't need a female dwarven CaH - simply use the male, they look the same.

+1 that is a good arguement.

[kingsjewel]

A suggestion can be written but it's not neccessary to be accepted.

I won't debate against strong arguments.

[Elite KryPtik]

Well I already said that I think there are bigger priorities, I just didn't like the way Dain phrased his argument and wanted something more than just an opinion about it. The argument could also be made that since Dwarf women are so similar in voice and appearence to Dwarf men, that they might have been in armies with nobody knowing about it. In the end though, I don't think its a big deal, and there are more important things to do right now.

[Walküre]

I won't debate against strong arguments.

That is up to you, even though you are theoretically supposed (and always invited) to do so. It's definitely better trying to argue your points with your own words whenever you have the possibility to do it; you would otherwise leave the discussion to other people, who can't obviously answer precisely on your behalf and back your thesis as you would like to.

In this case, the lore arguments are quite clear on the matter, though they don't actually exclude it completely: we know that female Dwarves do exist, and the fact that one of them could become a warrior (as a very rare exception) wouldn't be, in my opinion, more at the lore's ends than concepts as Helegwen and the lore-masters currently are (and I think that Helegwen was indeed a great legitimate addition).

So, I would say that what would be really required is the actual will of developing such proposal and the relative time to spend (something quite improbable now, I guess, with other fundamental priorities). Besides, just to give a hint, what about proposing a completely supportive role for this hypothetical heroine (that is, pure support as Erestor's abilities)?

[kingsjewel]

I won't debate against strong arguments.

That is up to you, even though you are theoretically supposed (and always invited) to do so. It's definitely better trying to argue your points with your own words whenever you have the possibility to do it; you would otherwise leave the discussion to other people, who can't obviously answer precisely on your behalf and back your thesis as you would like to.

In this case, the lore arguments are quite clear on the matter, though they don't actually exclude it completely: we know that female Dwarves do exist, and the fact that one of them could become a warrior (as a very rare exception) wouldn't be, in my opinion, more at the lore's ends than concepts as Helegwen and the lore-masters currently are (and I think that Helegwen was indeed a great legitimate addition).

So, I would say that what would be really required is the actual will of developing such proposal and the relative time to spend (something quite improbable now, I guess, with other fundamental priorities). Besides, just to give a hint, what about proposing a completely supportive role for this hypothetical heroine (that is, pure support as Erestor's abilities)?

There are really strong argument against my suggestion. The ' lore arguments' are debatable (lore doesn't say, for example,  there is female elf warrior class, or Tauriel...) but I can't debate with the others.  Originally I didn't think that wrote this suggestion, and this suggestion is not very important for me. There had been a conversation on Moddb about this , only that's why I wrote this topic.
I see there is a misunderstanding about my hero. I didn't want a recruited hero(like Helegwen)  just a CaH hero. I didn't think about specific skills.
About priorities : Really not the Dwarven faction is important. I think Dwarves are almost finished. Dwarven units and heroes have the best textures. Dwarven ringheroes need a ringhero avatar (like Saruman or the black Gandalf) and Dáin's abilities need changes (Possibly ThorinIII as ringhero for Erebor) that's all.

[Walküre]

I see there is a misunderstanding about my hero. I didn't want a recruited hero (like Helegwen) just a CaH hero. I didn't think about specific skills.

I did perfectly understand that yours were a CaH proposal. What I wanted to point out is that the idea of a Dwarven female hero would stretch the lore no less than Helegwen and the lore-masters actually do. I don't consider it as a negative argument at all; it was just a remark of mine regarding the very legitimacy of this concept.

[kingsjewel]

I did perfectly understand that yours were a CaH proposal. What I wanted to point out is that the idea of a Dwarven female hero would stretch the lore no less than Helegwen and the lore-masters actually do. I don't consider it as a negative argument at all; it was just a remark of mine regarding the very legitimacy of this concept.

You are right, and I didn't think that you had negative comment.  But this post doesn't seems popular and I think this suggestion's fate decided. Tell the truth, I didn't think about abilities, I can't speak english so well...I always write short comments, beacuse hard to translate them. Usually just I agree or disagree with others' arguments.

[Walküre]

Being popular is really not a compulsory requirement for any thread to be open. Much also depends on which meaning you refer to regarding something being 'popular'. A topic can be popular if it succeeds in attracting enough attention and in enabling a useful discussion to take place; I think this thread is not doing so badly under this perspective, as we did debate our own points. Left aside the issue of time and priorities, there are people who didn't totally exclude the possibility of a Dwarven heroine.

Having no valid reasons to close this thread, the fate of your suggestion will be eventually decided if the Edain Team provides a very clear response (accepting or rejecting it). Until then, you may take all the time you want and try to develop the concept even further, remembering that an effective and structured presentation is often vital for the success of a proposal 

[Elite KryPtik]

Just 1 note, don't ever feel like you are being bullied or like a proposal is bad because several people have disagreed with it. Theres always a compromise that can be made, and very often ideas become better for it. I don't think that anybody on this forum has any ill will toward another, sometimes people just disagree in teams, but that doesn't mean there arn't others who will read your ideas and like them.

[kingsjewel]

Thank you your positive comments. I know the Edain Team will decide that accept the suggestion or not, not the posters. (No problem if they won't accepted it)
Maybe she would be an economy supporter because the WETA team imagined dwarf women as merchants. (The lore says nothing about them, we know.)
I have played a long time ago with CaH heroes, so I don't know there is such category or ability for CaH heroes. If not, then she would be a unit supporter.