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Umfrage

Evil Men Faction

Yes an Evil Men faction would be great with all of the realms combined.
74 (64.9%)
I like the evil men the way they are now.
6 (5.3%)
I think they should not have a faction but i would like more units from the spellbook.
3 (2.6%)
Harad And Rhun should be two separate factions.
31 (27.2%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 111

Autor Thema: A possible new Evil Men faction  (Gelesen 11085 mal)

Offline Morwereth

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #90 am: 10. Mär 2017, 12:58 »
  As far as I remember, Castamir was a Gondorian admiral who dethroned King Eldacar by civil war. He ruled around 8 years and eventually got killed by Eldacar's himself when he returned with reinforcements. His sons escaped to Umbar and possibly became leaders of Corsairs.

  My point is, Castamir died long time ago before War of the Ring. I'd like to suggest adding heir(s) of Castamir as a corsair hero to possible evil man faction, instead of himself or hero who shares the same name. It would be more lore friendly in my opinion.

Offline OakenShield224

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #91 am: 10. Mär 2017, 18:27 »
This is a very interesting proposal. I like the fact that you start in Rhun and then work with other groups of evil men depending on your strategy. The idea of the Bazaar that allows you to specialise in a sub-faction is also interesting. One idea could be that the Bazaar also provides trade deals with each sub-faction. For example, if you have a trade deal with Harad, the Harad buildings produce a small amount of resources. The Bazaar itself would have to be more expensive. This is just me speculating though so feel free to ignore all of it.

I also like the unique heroes like the War Priest and the Scorpion Lord (although I'm still not sure how Amdur works). I think I agree with lordoflinks regarding Khamul. He seems to have too big of a role in Evil Men, especially since he is also one of Mordor's most powerful heroes. He is best as temporary summon who disrupts enemy buildings and units.

If only one of Saleme and Murakhan is kept, then there may need to be another hero in the faction. One role that I think could be filled would be a leader of Rhun as Amdur seems to be more like an elite warrior and tank than a leader. This leader could be made as a Ring Hero as a contrast to Suladan.

This is just more of me thinking of ideas. I think Umbar would have a emphasis on slaves. They are descendants of the Black Numenoreans from the Second Age who took slaves when they came to Middle Earth. They also used slaves to row their boats (Aragorn freed them when the Army of the Dead attacked the Corsair fleet). I don't know if this can be implemented, but there could be spell book power that recharges as enemy units are killed. When it is full, you have to option to immediately earn some money (selling the slaves) or to boost the production of a target structure (use the slaves as a work force). I also think Men of Darkness would have a close connection to Morgoth/Sauron and would worship them (the Numenoreans of the Second Age worshipped Morgoth while the Men of Darkness though Sauron was "both king and god"). They may make sacrifices to them to gain some sort of blessing. This could be implemented with the slave system. You would have the option to sacrifice the slaves. All units across the map would gain +30% damage for 1 minute but would earn no experience for this time.
Again, feel free to ignore these ideas if you think they don't work.

Regarding the name of Castamir, although a new name could be made, men in Middle Earth have been known to use their ancestors names before. For example, there have been 2 Aragorns, 2 Boromirs, and 2 Denethors.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #92 am: 12. Mär 2017, 10:11 »
Two additional thematic concerns I think are:
1. The absence of the steel bow; I believe it is a very cool weapon and the best place for it is Umbar
2. I do not believe you should be able to build Black Easterlings, in my opinion they are a very special unit that should remain as a summon from Khamul only. Rather the Easterlings should get their own unique infantry such as a "Dragon Guard."
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline Garlodur

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #93 am: 12. Mär 2017, 22:34 »
Thank you everyone for your kind feedback. I invite to delve into critically analysing the proposal in search of questions regarding theme, balance, style, gameplay, originality, and technicalities.

I will clear up the questions so far:

@Morwereth: The name Castamir links to an historical character in Middle-Earth, I am aware of that. I did this for the exact reason that names are reused in other instances, indicated by Oakenshield224: they are meant to remind us of these characters. I have thus build the character of Castamir (the Second if you will) on the basis of revenge for his ancestor Castamir the Usurper: I believe this is a very interesting position to start from because it gives the hero a background story far more realistic than a simple Corsair Captain who wants loot and booze.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #94 am: 13. Mär 2017, 13:02 »
This is going to be a long post so I hope you are ready.
Garlodur, I shall address your concerns first by explaining my feedback with your idea and then I shall explain why I did the things I did in my concept so you can understand my viewpoint.
1. Feedback on your Proposal

I hope my explanation has been sufficient. Please ask me if you have any questions. My comment about conceding defeat was meant in jest as an expression of how impressed I was with your concept, and the extreme likelihood that if any concept will be picked it will be yours.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Offline Garlodur

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #95 am: 2. Apr 2017, 21:03 »
Here I am finally with a reaction to you, lordoflinks. I have been away for a bit due to study occupations. First of all, thank you for your feedback. Let's discuss some of it as far as it fits in one post in a structured way.


With regards to your explanation on the differences in our concepts I have come up with an idea of shaping the Men of Darkness more to the faction of people's liking.

At the start of each game the Easterling castle will be built in a regular way. When you click on the citadel you will then have the option to choose to upgrade right away into a particular subfaction for free. This choice affects your starting units and allows buildings to level up in time. Later in the game, you can choose to upgrade the other subfactions as well so that you can pull together the full might of the Men of Darkness.

  • Choose Easterlings: the citadel is extended on one side with a small embassy-like reception hall with war priests; the starting units remain Easterling Swordsmen; Easterling recruitment buildings will start levelling in time. This choice benefits the defensive player but is still necessary in mid-game if you want quick access to elite troops and siege
  • Choose Southrons: the citadel is extended with a embassy tent from the south with NPC Spear Throwers on guard; Southron Buildings build freely on the map by Southron Builders start levelling in time; starter units change into Haradrim Swordsmen. This benefits an aggressive player with easily spammed units from different corners of the map but remains necessary in mid-game to extend the power of the Mûmakil.
  • Choose Umbarians: the citadel is extended with a small temple-like building with an NPC Black Númenorean on guard; starting units are turned into Corsairs and the Bazar now allows recruitment of Corsairs. This allows for a strong economic harrasment strategy which is weak if not founded by units from the other realms

I would like to hear all your thoughts on this implementation, whether it's feasible, strategically interesting, and not too similar to the Dwarves' system.

Offline lordoflinks

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Re: A possible new Evil Men faction
« Antwort #96 am: 5. Apr 2017, 11:20 »
I've said all I have needed to say really, so I can offer no more thoughts really.
Good luck with the rest of your concept.
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine