29. Mär 2024, 02:15 Hallo Gast.
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Umfrage

What is the last faction you would like to see after the Rhun/Harad faction for the Third Age?

Dorwinion
29 (51.8%)
Arnor
6 (10.7%)
Forodwaith
2 (3.6%)
Nothing (Land of the Sun)
3 (5.4%)
Something Cool
5 (8.9%)
Hobbits and Unicorns
11 (19.6%)

Stimmen insgesamt: 48

Autor Thema: Dorwinion Faction  (Gelesen 28713 mal)

tolgayurdal

  • Gast
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #90 am: 24. Mär 2020, 18:04 »
It is not really about how many ring heroes the faction has. This is just a consept afterwards (not even accepted to be the right potencial faction). I don't know everything whole Edain, but building an entire faction has to based on some foundations. Dorwinion was almost every time out of sight during ages, does it worthy to be the last one? I don't know. If it is going to be, what can it provide, this is only matters.

Firstly since Dorwinion has not directly joined War of the Ring, they bring to the mod what they good at: business ethics (trade centered culture), peace (non fanatics of war - of the ring) and justice (defense against only enemy troops, promoting hardworking own labours).

It also needs a story to focus on. When the ones battled for the ring and its effects, Dorwinion has always worked (except a couple occasions). This may enlight unnoticed parameters and gather them under the one purpose. Their call might be replied by Avari elves, Orocarni dwarves, dark dwarves and other in the light of the business options.

Alatar and Pallando? Yes they might be ring heroes, more importantly the ring is probably efficient used by their hands. But it is totally up to their usage in the faction structure.

The fact is that i just can not see (or rebuild) the faction foundations for now (before mentioned real life things). Maybe New Shadow would be inconvenient, i should seek new solutions or someone can bring another idea which might be approved by ET.

For now it is already too soon to speak of (if there is not any idea to improve the consept).

Thanks for feedbacks, our differences makes us colourful not solo b/w.

Sincerely.



dkbluewizard2

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 52
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #91 am: 24. Mär 2020, 20:59 »
Hey Tolgayurdal,

I am NOT against your proposal at all. I think you have captured all elements that are essential to Dorwinion and how they functioned during the WOTR. The only thing that is missing canonically was the Ring heroes, I mean, canonically speaking Herumor and Morwe don't even exist. But they were notes that Tolkien toyed with.

This is why I suggested that the Blue Wizards be moved in their stead. You can still have a dark and light version of Dorwinion (that is to say them picking a side). I was just suggesting that you keep everything as is, but you make Alatar the Dark side of Dorwinion and Pallando the light side of Dorwinion.

The last power could be changed from the Blue Wizards to the Entwives, which per David Day, Tolkien and others--Dorwinrim were northmen and northmen learned the art of cultivating from the Entwives.

I think if these minor changes were made--it would be perfect.

The only other ideas for factions based on the parameters that the Edain Team set and set during WOTR or the Third Age would be these factions:

Forodwaith (Lossoth force) in my opinion that would be uninteresting and they have a hard enough time just finding food, Army of the Dead (that is probably too powerful), Arnor (already represented on numerous maps), Mirkwood (again already represented, and ET stated they didn't want anymore Dwarf or Elf factions), Red Mountains (ET said no more Dwarf factions), Edhellond (no elf factions), Dark Lands (who knows what was there), and  New Lands (same as Dark Lands).

With that stated above, Dorwinion is the perfect option left--especially since they would house the Blue Wizards.

tolgayurdal

  • Gast
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #92 am: 24. Mär 2020, 21:39 »
Hey dkbluewizard,

I am quite sure that you support the consept, my friend and really grateful for it. I just thought that Dorwinion needed to be more clearified for the ones who interests (not for you obviously).

About Morwe and Herumor, actually every hero in Edain shares to have a role (mass slayer, hero killer etc), but these two are symbol of their represented sides. This grants them to be major roles in their path (except being non canonicle). Othervise i do not want to insist on them to capture the ring.

The Blues, as you know, they would be too much that permanent existance of them. Also i can not imagine that they were divided since bounded from the first place. Besides if they split, i idealize that Alatar, messenger of Orome should be on the light side.

The other subject is Entwives, they can be natural ultimate spell but would not it too much similar Rohan and Lothlorien spellbooks? Plus it doesn't sound for fitting dark side, does more close to Avari, i think.

Eventhough i shared this consept, i really can not foresee it to be implemented for now and long time from that. ET has other and urgent matters to take care of. We should hold at least Dorwinion proposal for a time, probably reshape later.

Best regards.



« Letzte Änderung: 25. Mär 2020, 08:03 von tolgayurdal »

dkbluewizard2

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 52
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #93 am: 25. Mär 2020, 19:22 »
Tolgayurdal, thank you for your time. I'll try to answer all your questions as best as possible.

The Blues replacing Morwe and Herumor would allow for Alatar to be a hero killer (I mean he is like Aragorn, a ranger/hunter with magical skills. In fact, I was shocked you didn't give him a bow weapon).

As for Pallando, he could be the mass slayer, or hero killer since he is of Namo's people. Either Blue Wizards role can be tweaked to fill in the gap of Morwe and Herumor.

In regards to light vs dark side--I guess Alatar could be on the light side since his nickname is (darkness slayer). But whichever side, the Blues can be on either one. But don't forget that canonically both fell from their appointed task which brings me to their ring-hero mechanics.

I feel if Alatar picks up the One Ring, he would become the new "Dark Hunter" a throwback to the Elder Days when Melkor utilized the Dark Hunter to hunt elves. This would be unique because we would have a ring-hero with a Bow for the first time.

I also thought about Pallando's ring hero mechanic and realized that he would be greedy as well and use the power of the ring for his own ends. Thus he could become a spirit master (or Necromancer)--creating wights, ghosts, etc.

Thus, the only good outcome for Dorwinion finding the Ring would lie in the King of Dorwinion who would summon the counselor as you described perfectly.

Whoo, got through a lot here, but on to your last question: "The other subject is Entwives, they can be natural ultimate spell but would not it too much similar Rohan and Lothlorien spellbooks? Plus it doesn't sound for fitting dark side, does more close to Avari, i think."

In regards to the Entwives, I wanted to share this link: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Entwives

It states on here that some survived and went to the East while some may have been enslaved. This is why I felt they could be used for both. The Dark side Enslaves the Entwives, the Light side allies with them.

I hope this answered everything. I know this won't be implemented for a long time (if ever) but these are my suggestions and I think they have a very canonical "ring" to it. Take care and thanks for the discussions as always.

tolgayurdal

  • Gast
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #94 am: 25. Mär 2020, 22:44 »
Dkbluewizard,

Firstly Dorwinion is really lucky to have two maiar in its forces against enemies (othervise the country probably could not run with improvements until WotR).

The consept has already too many unpredictable elements in that area, the faction dynamics are based on trade, peace and justice (which is not suitable for they good at, especially according to battled centered RTS game).

The Blues, as you know, have been a mystery for the west. Alatar can not use a bow very often up to athletism for his age. Pallando has to do meditation to have visions obviously. I can't still understand how they became friends until now as belong to two different, close to death consept Valar (as being hunter and doomsmen).

I don't want to say anything about the ring mechanic either (op perspective probably true for these maiar, clearly not stable like Necromancer both).

Then i just remembered (and realized) the fate of Entwives after your suggestion, even without open the link. They may be suitable for both sides, but ultimate spell just does not sound for them (as being canonicle similarities Rohan and Lothlorien). As you know, i had some struggles which makes me forget things and distracts me for focussing.

Lastly i just need to take a break from everything for a time (Covid 19 effected my work too). Thank you for everything, i hope we stay in touch when i utilize the time and myself.

Best regards.

dkbluewizard2

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 52
Re: Dorwinion Faction
« Antwort #95 am: 26. Mär 2020, 06:42 »
We will stay in touch my friend. And Covid 19 has effected us all. I apologize if I don't always catch everything that is said--but thank you for your honesty and I hope and pray all is going well for you and your loved ones.

Take care and stay safe.

--Dkbluewizard.