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Autor Thema: Pages for the Buildings  (Gelesen 3916 mal)

The_Necromancer0

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Pages for the Buildings
« am: 6. Nov 2016, 14:20 »
This is something I have been thinking about for a while but I'm stuck so I'm looking for feedback to make it into a complete idea. Basically I've been debating whether or not we should create individual pages for each building in the mod or whether we should keep them as they are on the faction pages, moving them to individual pages does represent some advantages and disadvantages along with that you can check out the sample page created here.

Creating individual pages for each buildings will allow the wiki to expand, displaying more information and displaying the in-game images of these buildings at different levels. This is a section in which the wiki has been lacking because there is just no space anymore on faction pages for anymore information.

At the moment I don't know how to categorise each section, I've simply put all the information known about the building. This includes everything it can do and all the abilities that affect it.

Now it's just a matter of creating a format for these pages and then getting to work. Thoughts?

P.S: I've already created a infobox template for the buildings but suggest any changes you feel necessary.
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Julio229

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #1 am: 6. Nov 2016, 14:43 »
I agree with making building pages, it will allow to give more information on specific buildings, or even to put strategy tips on how to use it in the different stages of the game (When it is advisable to buy Library upgrades in Imladris, for example). I thought of suggesting this, but I didn't know if it would be good, but I'm glad you had the idea too!


Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #2 am: 6. Nov 2016, 16:08 »
We can try this out and see how it goes. What I'm concerned about is Lorien since their buildings are very close to each other and I'm afraid we'll not be able to get a clear shot of each building.
And if this fails we could create a page for each faction buidings ('Rohan Buildings', 'Gondor Buidings') and write all info there.

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #3 am: 6. Nov 2016, 16:22 »
I think building pages are a great idea.  Categories could include resource production, unit production, defense, support (well, heroic statue, etc), upgrades, settlement, outpost, etc.  It might seem a bit ambitious, but little by little.

OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #4 am: 6. Nov 2016, 17:54 »
I like the idea of having some form of page about the buildings. Would each type of building (resource, production, citadel, defensive/support, upgrade) have a different layout or set of subheadings?

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #5 am: 7. Nov 2016, 13:46 »
I think at the moment it's more likely that all the building will have a general layout but that will be filled differently, but if you have any ideas for different types of layouts make sure to post them, I'm still not sure myself how exactly the page is going to look like.

What I suggest is that you all pick a building from a faction with different purpose (recruitment, research, external build plots, ect...) and create a page to be able to test any ideas you have on the subject, you can also edit the Tribute Camp with any idea you have. I'll also add some more stuff I had ideas for and then feedback here.

I think the categories you suggested Trond are a great idea, categorising them both generally and specifically (in small groups rather than only as a "buildings" is a great idea, it'll also fill the navigation bar more, it's beginning to look a bit empty since the clean up.
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Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #6 am: 7. Nov 2016, 16:35 »
I just finished creating the Dwarven Hall of Warriors page.  Let me know what you think or if I missed something.  I tried to think through it and put the most important details.  I've also tweaked the "Building" template to be able to implement it better with all building types.  For the units that you can recruit at the Hall of Warriors, I just copied and pasted the tables from the faction pages with a few modifications.  I felt this was the best method, but I'm open to any suggestions or feedback (on that and everything else I did, of course).

http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Hall_of_Warriors

Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #7 am: 7. Nov 2016, 18:11 »
I just created Mallorn Tree page and I must say I give up my previous idea about the page of each faction buidings because then the pages are going to be waaay too long. Go and check out how much text there is in Mallorn Tree page.

Julio229

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #8 am: 7. Nov 2016, 18:18 »
With economy upgrades for the resource buildings, we could have them on a separate page so we don't need to add it in all the pages, I think.


Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #9 am: 7. Nov 2016, 18:33 »
With economy upgrades for the resource buildings, we could have them on a separate page so we don't need to add it in all the pages, I think.

We could also make templates for these economy upgrades to make them easier to insert.

Julio229

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #10 am: 7. Nov 2016, 20:32 »
With economy upgrades for the resource buildings, we could have them on a separate page so we don't need to add it in all the pages, I think.

We could also make templates for these economy upgrades to make them easier to insert.

I agree, that is a good idea!


OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #11 am: 7. Nov 2016, 21:50 »
I've just made a basic page for the Gondor Well. One thing I'm unsure on is what to write if the building has no upgrades for it. Would a template need to be made for pages like this?

Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #12 am: 7. Nov 2016, 22:07 »
With economy upgrades for the resource buildings, we could have them on a separate page so we don't need to add it in all the pages, I think.

We could also make templates for these economy upgrades to make them easier to insert.

I agree, that is a good idea!
Agree, definetly good idea.

Zitat von: OakenShield224
I've just made a basic page for the Gondor Well. One thing I'm unsure on is what to write if the building has no upgrades for it. Would a template need to be made for pages like this?
Yes I think that a bit modified Upgrades template would fit for this.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #13 am: 8. Nov 2016, 08:57 »
Good Job everybody, a lot of feedback so far. Let me sort through it all and see if we can group everything into a single layout. Here is the first draft of what will soon be the official building layout:
Building Infobox - this will have all the possible fields but only those relevant to the building will have to be filled out.

Quote - try to keep it proportional to the page size (the one on the Well page is too big in my opinion, at the moment). Something nice that summarizes the lore or just the reason behind the building.

First Paragraph - just jot down a few words about the building, something that describes maybe its physical appearance or just a summary of its purpose.

Upgrades - just a simple template for the resource upgrades this will only list the upgrades that affect this building directly. If it doesn't have any upgrades use the no upgrade template.

Function - this will either list the units it can train, the discount it provides or list the upgrades that can be purchased that don't affect the building.

Level Up - because of the diverse and unique level up system that the Edain Mod has, I think this is a key section to have. Just a simple paragraph which explains how you can level up the system (if by upgrading at the building then refer to the upgrades section.)
 
Strategy Section - This should explain what strategy the building is part of and what it can be used for, in addition it should be explained at what location the building can be best used.

Thoughts on the layout?
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Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #14 am: 8. Nov 2016, 11:01 »
Agree.

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #15 am: 8. Nov 2016, 13:37 »
Looks good.  I've fiddled with some templates for the economic buildings, you can see them on the Mallorn Tree page.  Feel free to change them if you think of something better.  I just called them "Tier1" and "Tier2" for simplicity's sake. 

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #16 am: 8. Nov 2016, 14:41 »
I actually thought of something else.  How would we differentiate between upgrades FOR a building vs upgrades AT a building?  The Dwarven Stonemason for example.  It has upgrades for itself, the resource ones, but then also upgrades for other things like forged blades for defensive towers and extra defense plots. 

Julio229

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #17 am: 8. Nov 2016, 19:24 »
Agree with that general layout!

I've not been able to help a lot because I'm busy with exams, but I'll try to fix typos and do small things as the pages are done, and when I have more time, I'll create some too.

I actually thought of something else.  How would we differentiate between upgrades FOR a building vs upgrades AT a building?  The Dwarven Stonemason for example.  It has upgrades for itself, the resource ones, but then also upgrades for other things like forged blades for defensive towers and extra defense plots. 

We could make a difference between "Building Upgrades" and "Purchasable Upgrades", making them different sections, I think.


The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #18 am: 9. Nov 2016, 08:38 »
I actually thought of something else.  How would we differentiate between upgrades FOR a building vs upgrades AT a building?  The Dwarven Stonemason for example.  It has upgrades for itself, the resource ones, but then also upgrades for other things like forged blades for defensive towers and extra defense plots.

Actually that's the purpose of the upgrades and function sections:
The Upgrade section defines what upgrades can be researched by the building for the building while the Function section defines the researches that can be done by the building for others than this building.

We can probably combine both templates into a single one because I don't think there are any instances of there being only one of the two.


I've not been able to help a lot because I'm busy with exams, but I'll try to fix typos and do small things as the pages are done, and when I have more time, I'll create some too.


Don't worry  :) Do well on your exams the wiki can wait.
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OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #19 am: 10. Nov 2016, 18:41 »
For unit production buildings that also produce heroes (like the Lindon tower and the entmoot), how would we arrange the heroes that can be bought? For the units, it is just sections of the unit tables from the faction pages but the heroes are just listed with a small description on the faction pages, so could we have some sort of table for heroes on the building pages that is similar to the unit table?

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #20 am: 11. Nov 2016, 12:07 »
For unit production buildings that also produce heroes (like the Lindon tower and the entmoot), how would we arrange the heroes that can be bought? For the units, it is just sections of the unit tables from the faction pages but the heroes are just listed with a small description on the faction pages, so could we have some sort of table for heroes on the building pages that is similar to the unit table?

I've tested out your idea on the Lindon Watchtower page with a custom table.  I mostly just copied information from the Cirdan page, but if you think of something better or in addition to what I've put, don't hesitate to change it. 

OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #21 am: 12. Nov 2016, 12:49 »
For unit production buildings that also produce heroes (like the Lindon tower and the entmoot), how would we arrange the heroes that can be bought? For the units, it is just sections of the unit tables from the faction pages but the heroes are just listed with a small description on the faction pages, so could we have some sort of table for heroes on the building pages that is similar to the unit table?
I like it. I'll add a similar table to other buildings with recruitable heroes.

I've tested out your idea on the Lindon Watchtower page with a custom table.  I mostly just copied information from the Cirdan page, but if you think of something better or in addition to what I've put, don't hesitate to change it.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #22 am: 15. Nov 2016, 20:12 »
This brings up a question, should a table be created on faction pages for heroes? Just a quick question, so far the hero section is the only one non-standardized.

Also, I feel like we should remove the upgrades section and just fit it all in the function section. Too often it is just replaced by the empty upgrades section, which doesn't look too nice.

Also I was wondering whether we should combine all the battle towers pages into one since they differ so little from one another.
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OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #23 am: 15. Nov 2016, 22:39 »
Also, I feel like we should remove the upgrades section and just fit it all in the function section. Too often it is just replaced by the empty upgrades section, which doesn't look too nice.

Also I was wondering whether we should combine all the battle towers pages into one since they differ so little from one another.
Both of these ideas sound good. Would we have pages for defensive buildings like sentry towers or Wall Expansions (like the towers, catapults, flood gates etc.)?

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #24 am: 15. Nov 2016, 23:01 »
I say we should be compact them as much as possible. All wall catapult upgrades together, all tower upgrades together and all postern gates upgrades together. The rest will be split up according to the needs of each faction, but should we list them as usual buildings?
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Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #25 am: 16. Nov 2016, 17:38 »
This brings up a question, should a table be created on faction pages for heroes? Just a quick question, so far the hero section is the only one non-standardized.

Also, I feel like we should remove the upgrades section and just fit it all in the function section. Too often it is just replaced by the empty upgrades section, which doesn't look too nice.

Also I was wondering whether we should combine all the battle towers pages into one since they differ so little from one another.
Agree with everything.

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #26 am: 16. Nov 2016, 23:22 »
I say we should be compact them as much as possible. All wall catapult upgrades together, all tower upgrades together and all postern gates upgrades together. The rest will be split up according to the needs of each faction, but should we list them as usual buildings?

I have created a page called "Defensive Build Plots" containing all the basic information as a framework.  I think it will be tricky to organize the page, so whether it needs to be split into more pages or whatever, feel free to do something with it.  It seems kind of like a pain to have to upload images for each structure for each faction, so I felt the traditional building infobox didn't quite fit.  Well, like I said, I think it will be tricky and perhaps some of you have more of an idea of how it should be. 

http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Defensive_Build_Plots

This brings up a question, should a table be created on faction pages for heroes? Just a quick question, so far the hero section is the only one non-standardized.

Also, I feel like we should remove the upgrades section and just fit it all in the function section. Too often it is just replaced by the empty upgrades section, which doesn't look too nice.

Also I was wondering whether we should combine all the battle towers pages into one since they differ so little from one another.

As for this, agree with everything as well. 

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #27 am: 21. Nov 2016, 14:49 »
A lot of progress over the last couple of days, great team effort. We now have 26 building pages and I think we should start linking them to the faction pages, no need to change anything in the tables just a quick inter-wiki link with the building name.

I think the defensive plots page is a great way to gather a lot of content together to create a more interesting page.

Apart from that I've actually had a change of mind, the resource upgrades do look nicer on their own heading, what if instead of completely removing the upgrades heading we simply dropped it a couple of spaces right before the Strategy section.

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OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #28 am: 21. Nov 2016, 17:33 »
Should the citadels all be in one page or should there be a separate citadel page for each faction?

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #29 am: 22. Nov 2016, 22:55 »
Should the citadels all be in one page or should there be a separate citadel page for each faction?

Similarly, should summonable buildings like the Dwarven Lone Tower or Gondor Tower get a page, their own individual page, or a collective page?

Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #30 am: 23. Nov 2016, 12:32 »
Should the citadels all be in one page or should there be a separate citadel page for each faction?

Similarly, should summonable buildings like the Dwarven Lone Tower or Gondor Tower get a page, their own individual page, or a collective page?
I think it would be enough for the Towers to have a trivia section under every faction that can have summoned towers in Defensive build plots page.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #31 am: 30. Nov 2016, 11:19 »
It seems we have covered every part of the concept, since we have already begun working through the buildings I give this post 48hr hours before declaring it official wiki policy. If anybody wants to add anything post it within that time limit or notify me to hold back for a little while more.
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OakenShield224

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #32 am: 30. Nov 2016, 17:26 »
Should there be a separate page for each citadel or just one page with sections for each faction?

Gandalf7000

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #33 am: 1. Dez 2016, 11:42 »
Should there be a separate page for each citadel or just one page with sections for each faction?
I was wondering about the same thing? Necro, what do you think? It seems that the outposts (like Mirkwood outpost and Steelworks (Isengard)) arre getting the page. This brings up the subject (if we decide that we need citadel pages) what the Lorien pages will become since now the pre-requisite buildings count as unit production. If the citadel pages will appear those pages will look like stubs (Border Guardhouse, Galadhrim Quarters). I have now split feelings about this and I'll wait for other opinions to decide.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #34 am: 1. Dez 2016, 12:03 »
I think we should group all citadel items into one page, this would also include (in my opinion), the Mirkwood Citadel. Other than that outpost which are not citadels will be getting their regular building pages like every other building.
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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #35 am: 1. Dez 2016, 17:41 »
What about the Angmar outpost citadel? Will that be any different?

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #36 am: 2. Dez 2016, 21:27 »
What exactly would go on the citadels page?  I'm just wondering if it's necessary.  If we do decide that they are, then I agree with one page for all of them. 

What about the Angmar outpost citadel? Will that be any different?

I would say only castle/camp citadels should get a page if that's what we decide.  The Angmar Outpost is the only exception since it is special.  And the Mirkwood one too. 

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #37 am: 2. Dez 2016, 21:47 »
I would say only castle/camp citadels should get a page if that's what we decide.  The Angmar Outpost is the only exception since it is special.  And the Mirkwood one too. 
And Border Stronghold (Arnor), and Dol Guldur fortress, and Minas Morgul Fortress, and Dunedain Outpost etc.  :D

Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #38 am: 2. Dez 2016, 22:13 »
I worded that confusingly.  I don't think the normal Outpost citadels should get a page except for Angmar one.  So the special outpost expansions like the Dol Guldur Fortress,  Mirkwood Fortress, etc etc yes, normal with the three build plots no.   xD

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #39 am: 3. Dez 2016, 13:34 »
I worded that confusingly.  I don't think the normal Outpost citadels should get a page except for Angmar one.  So the special outpost expansions like the Dol Guldur Fortress,  Mirkwood Fortress, etc etc yes, normal with the three build plots no.   xD
Yeah, I think that too.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #40 am: 3. Dez 2016, 14:47 »
Agreed, I think all regular outpost citadels should be grouped together, I'm sure we can adapt Angmar's section slightly.
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Trondheim9

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Re: Pages for the Buildings
« Antwort #41 am: 3. Dez 2016, 16:07 »
Agreed, I think all regular outpost citadels should be grouped together, I'm sure we can adapt Angmar's section slightly.

My thought was that all regular outpost citadels don't need a page.  What can be said about them?