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Autor Thema: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin  (Gelesen 16874 mal)

kingsjewel

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #15 am: 13. Jan 2017, 17:09 »
I also agree with this suggestion.

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #16 am: 13. Jan 2017, 18:48 »
Thank you, I added you to the list :).

TheDarkOne

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #17 am: 13. Jan 2017, 23:26 »
Surely you did well to introduce your idea, I'll give that to you, but I find it lacking a solid reason to be implemented in the Mod.

First, Edain mod is not a junk yard for all Middle-Earth's lore to be dumped into. While there were certain things like Lindon units which deserved to be in the mod, I don't see any reason to add some wildmen into Lothlorien faction (beornings were clearly something bigger than them if you start to question why they are in Edain).

Secondly, placing them into the mod will turn the beornings homestead into op barracks as well as making already strong beornings even more powerful.

Thirdly, recruiting such units is something opposite to the faction's system: having a little less units and their vulnerability to cavalry. The Mirkwood outpost fulfills the role of these Anduin ewoks, to a bigger extent however.

With that being said I stand against this idea though I admit, I like how you introduced it.
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Jan 2017, 12:37 von TheDarkOne »

Walküre

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #18 am: 14. Jan 2017, 00:07 »
As far as I understood the reasons of the proposal, the Woodsmen would also give us the scope for endowing Beornings with the elitist characterisation they're supposed to have, since they are quite supernatural beings who are able to turn into mighty and disruptive beasts. In a sense, the Woodsmen could give them their right higher role in the game (with limitations included). I guess it's a matter of redistributing the just role to each unit, in line with their nature or special properties whatsoever.

First, Edain mod is not a junk yard for all Middle-Earth's lore to be dumped into. While there were certain things like Lindon units which deserved to be in the mod, I don't see any reason to add some wildmen into Lothlorien faction (beornings were clearly something bigger than them if you start to question why they are in Edain).

By the way, isn't it a bit excessive to refer to lore arguments with garbage-related words? It's true that every single detail of the lore can't be objectively implemented in the game, but those are words from the very Tolkien and I think they consequently deserve their proper respect. Not to mention that issues involving lore accuracy are usually at the top of the hypothetical hierarchy of arguments for a proposal, because, as in this case, they often are the core of the proposal they relate to. I'm sure Fredius' intentions are aimed to enrich the whole game, and not to just throw rubbish here and there.

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #19 am: 14. Jan 2017, 00:15 »
With all due respect TheDarkOne, but did you even read the full proposal? The main reason to add the Woodmen is not to counter cavalry, but to counter early game rushes from spam factions like Mordor or Rohan. Can you also elaborate why the Woodmen will make the Beornings even more powerfull? I explained already that Beornings can't be built anymore from a level 1 Beorning Homestead, but from level 3, so with this I'm actually nerfing the Beornings position in the mod.

Also why exactly are Beornings "something bigger" than the Woodmen? Both didn't participate directly in the War of the Ring, and the Woodmen lived together under the rule of Beorn (later Grimbeorn), whom they saw as their chieftain. So if you add the Beornings to Lothlorien, then lorewise the Woodmen are tied to them as well. Also they are not "Wildmen" or "Ewoks", they are Woodmen, and share a common ancestry and culture with the Rohirrim.

Since you refer to the Mirkwood Outpost you confirm the fact that Lothlorien needs that outpost to survive in early game. If they don't manage to get that outpost, it's over for them.

Lastly I would like to say that I'd appreciate it if you read the full proposal. If you did, then my apologies, but I get the vibe that you haven't because I'm just repeating everything that's said here in the first post.

Also thanks Walk, I wrote this post while you posted yours, so forgive me if there are similairities in our posts.
« Letzte Änderung: 9. Aug 2017, 00:13 von Fredius »

TheDarkOne

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #20 am: 14. Jan 2017, 12:06 »
Mordor rush and continuous onslaught can be countered without an additional outpost. Building it just merely ensures a player's survival against advanced troops in a later game and a possible victory. If you can't, try harder. That's the point. Thus, additional barracks are not important. And I did not say a word about a dire need of a Mirkwood outpost to be build to repel rush spam.

Don't get me wrong, I do not question Fredius' intentions. I am saying there are certainly more important things than a bunch of some woodmen to be implemented into Edain.

Beornings are powerful shapeshifters. One of them did even participate in the battle of five armies. Community wanted them in the mod, so here they are. Like Lindon and Dunedain. Similar story. And I personally do not wish to see Lothlorien faction corrupted by their presence. Sorry, couldn't hold that one.
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Jan 2017, 12:19 von TheDarkOne »

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #21 am: 14. Jan 2017, 14:52 »
Right, a Mordor rush can be countered by "trying harder". That's not a very valid argument tbh. If a map has only one outpost plot, and the other player get's control over it, then it's pretty much over for Lothlorien, especially when he plays against Mordor or Rohan. Lothlorien's basic troops are just too lightly armoured to counter it, and once stuck in the base then even their upgrades can't help them.
Also, like I said in my proposal, the role of this unit is to defend your settlement plots as well, because defending your citadel as Lothlorien is already hard enough, having to defend the settlements as well is overkill. They are ESPECIALLY crucial in the next siege patch, because settlements don't get defensive upgrades with a turret anymore.

I never said that Edain should implement the Woodmen in the next version.

And the Woodmen participated in the battle of the Galdden Fields. What's your point? The current Lothlorien faction is set during the War of the Ring, and neither the Beornings nor the Woodmen sent forces outside of their realms during that war. Please take a look at the first post, and the amount of people who agree with this idea, and you should see that the community wants this idea as well.

Nevertheless I will add your name to the against list.
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Jan 2017, 16:08 von Fredius »

lahe95

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #22 am: 14. Jan 2017, 15:17 »
Bloody brilliant and interesting proposal. I really like it. It's nice too see people suggest new interesting things. Good job. I hope it gets added to the mod. :)

Walküre

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #23 am: 14. Jan 2017, 15:54 »
And I personally do not wish to see Lothlorien faction corrupted by their presence. Sorry, couldn't hold that one.

I initially had a similar doubt about the presence of such common human units in the whole faction; even more, of Woodsmen who are not endowed with any magical property. But then I made up my mind and focused on the positive sides of the concept: namely, the fact that all Skin-changers would be given a more relevant role (which truly corresponds to their power) and so would be made even more precious, the fact that Mirkwood (the entire environment) is to become very variegated and the importance of exploring other sides of Tolkien's lore. If the Professor mentioned them, there must be a reason. Nevertheless, the holy and sacred characterisation of the other heart (the main heart) of the faction shall remain unaltered; Lothlórien is already very well characterised.

These are my thoughts. I obviously respect your opinion though, as disagreements are nonetheless part of a discussion; but, as you may know, there is always the will to convince people or just to debate things further. By the way, judging from the feedback received, this proposal did get an overall positive reception so far (both here and on ModDB).

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #24 am: 14. Jan 2017, 16:02 »
Exactly, as of right now the Beornings are just too overrepresented in the mod. I, and the community as it seems, want them to be that special kind of unit that you won't see everyday.

Bloody brilliant and interesting proposal. I really like it. It's nice too see people suggest new interesting things. Good job. I hope it gets added to the mod. :)

And I thank you for your kind words, I hope they will be added as well :).

Dain@

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #25 am: 27. Jan 2017, 07:56 »
Я за эту идею !
+1 :)

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #26 am: 27. Jan 2017, 13:24 »
Спасибо большое :).

Я добавил твое имя в список.

Ectheldir

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #27 am: 27. Jan 2017, 17:06 »
I would also like to see Beornings as more of an elite-unit and I think the Woodmen of Anduin are a good way to achieve that.

Fredius

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #28 am: 27. Jan 2017, 18:54 »
Glad you agree, I will add you the list :).

FilipGeorg95

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Re: Unit Proposal: Woodmen of Anduin
« Antwort #29 am: 7. Feb 2017, 18:28 »
I like the Concept, add me to the list :D