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Autor Thema: Narya  (Gelesen 37987 mal)

Walküre

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Narya
« am: 5. Jan 2017, 12:01 »
THE REPATRIATION OF NARYA

Zitat
Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir, and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it known that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return.

‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.’
J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age


Following in the footsteps of the recent wide-ranging and extremely fruitful debate regarding Gandalf and possible solutions to make him even more canonical, I present the final proposal that emerged from differing views and a lot of insightful debating. May I just say that I find this a valuable compromise which aims to add the only missing piece to the Grey/White Wizard's design, while respecting the binding limits of this tough (very tough) topic. Many thanks to all the ones who participated with passion to the development of the thread and shared their precious ideas. In particular, a special merit ought to be given to Haman (who helped me in finding the right conclusion) and to dkbluewizard (who started the discussion in the first place). Hence, we here propose the final and totally lore-accurate repatriation of Narya to its legitimate owner during the War of the Ring (and most of the events regarding the fall of Arnor).


Círdan's current ability involving Narya is to be replaced by the horns of Ulmo, the Vala of all oceans and seas. The concept was crafted by following the purest principles of the lore and Tolkien's own vision. The description is below. Furthermore, the last ability of the hero is on the other hand overhauled as it follows, based on the role of the sea-Maia Ossë and of his ancient friendship with the Teleri, whom he taught the art of naval craftsmanship in the ancestral Years of the Trees.


In the game: Due to the very well-known limitations that we had to deal with in proposing a concept for this extremely iconic and particular hero, we eventually opted for a stance system, so that no abilities will be altered, nor will Gandalf's role as a mass-slayer be changed even slightly. One could see the addition of Narya as a very smart scope for adhering rightly to the sources (the Three Rings!) and for enhancing the hero's current performance. Furthermore, last but not least, Gandalf happens to be Ealendril's favourite character in the game. We're therefore immensely aware of the difficult task of suggesting this sort of features for this sort of heroes. We nonetheless did our best. I hope you will appreciate the effort and the content.

His new stances will interact with his own magic shield, which is one of the most beloved features by fans, coming from the golden days of BFME. Extremely unique mechanics that I want to underline in the best of the ways.




Zitat
GANDALF'S STANCES

Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire, poison, ice and magic.


Offensive Stance: Might of the Istar - Gandalf uses his potent magic to fight evil and tyranny. His spell damage is amplified by 50% and his attack by 15%.
On the other hand, his defence is decreased by 25% and his magical bubble-shield is completely disabled, leaving him vulnerable against enemy heroes and monsters.


Defensive Stance: Wizard's Shield - Gandalf conveys all his power to his bubble-shield, to resist any fell menace. His defence is increased by 25% and his bubble-shield's frequency will be a lot higher, granting him protection against units, monsters and heroes.
Conversely, the effort drains part of Gandalf's vigour and his spell damage is then decreased by 50%.



Zitat
NOTE: In line with the ancient lore of the Three Rings and their particular nature, this proposal will be coherently linked with the other two I had the privilege to work on: Nenya and Vilya. The pivotal theme at the centre of things, preservation, will thus be explored in different manners, each compatible with the relative hero and context.



Given that the mission of the Istar started as soon as he had set foot on Middle-earth (around 1000 T.A.), Arnor's Gandalf and the Blue Mountains' Gandalf will be equally endowed with Narya. Gandalf the White will make usage of this feature in the same way Gandalf the Grey does (no changes). Gandalf the Corrupted will activate Narya in the same way too, but, instead of a magical shield, the Ring of Fire will automatically (with a given frequency) create disruptive blazes/explosions of fire (a case similar to when Zaphragor is under the influence of Might of the Witch-king). Gandalf the Blessed will have his defence and attack respectively increased or decreased by 100%, alongside the magical shield getting even stronger.

This is the whole proposal. Numbers and values may always change, but what makes this concept special is the evocative meaning behind it: an innovation which, in reality, is nothing more than a return to the lore and to a more prominent cinematographic (LOTR-loyal) atmosphere. I really think it would be as revolutionary to see as the other major overhauls that the forthcoming patch shall bring. I hope you will like it very much. And, again, many thanks to Haman, without whom all of this would have probably taken a different shape  ;)

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AGAINST

1. Melkor Bauglir
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Feb 2019, 23:52 von Walküre »

lordoflinks

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #1 am: 5. Jan 2017, 12:49 »
As usual your concepts never fail to amaze.
The one fault I have but is that when Cirdan gives Gandalf the ring he states:
"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
This implies Gandalf uses the ring to bolster those around him rather than his own powers, and as much as I hate to say it; I am Against the proposed implementation at the moment, as it just does not sit right with me, the concept is wonderfully proposed but in order for it to sit right with me there needs to be some sort of interaction between Narya and other units/ heroes.   
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Walküre

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #2 am: 5. Jan 2017, 13:01 »
As usual your concepts never fail to amaze.
The one fault I have but is that when Cirdan gives Gandalf the ring he states:
"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
This implies Gandalf uses the ring to bolster those around him rather than his own powers, and as much as I hate to say it; I am Against the proposed implementation at the moment, as it just does not sit right with me, the concept is wonderfully proposed but in order for it to sit right with me there needs to be some sort of interaction between Narya and other units/ heroes.

I appreciate the fact that you liked the form, but it also saddens me a bit that you disagree with the content. I absolutely respect your opinion though. As I both pointed out here and in our discussion about Gandalf, hope-infusing properties are lore-accurate indeed, but I can guarantee you that Gandalf will never be given any kind of leadership on any unit: his role is the one of a solitary mass-slayer. He's the mightiest hero of the faction, yet other heroes are supposed to be leaders in Gondor.

So, as I suggested, the only way to find a compromise is to view Gandalf's leadership of the Good as the power of his impressive spells (whenever he fights the Evil). Otherwise, there is no space left for additions of the sort you referred to. The leadership issue was in fact one of the major causes that caused many past proposals to sink. We didn't want to make the same mistake.

Gandalf7000

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #3 am: 5. Jan 2017, 13:05 »
I Agree with this suggestion. Let's give Narya a proper spot in the mod!!! :)

Walküre

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #4 am: 5. Jan 2017, 13:08 »
I Agree with this suggestion. Let's give Narya a proper spot in the mod!!! :)

I knew you wanted to have your Ring of Power back  xD

lordoflinks

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #5 am: 5. Jan 2017, 13:13 »
As usual your concepts never fail to amaze.
The one fault I have but is that when Cirdan gives Gandalf the ring he states:
"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
This implies Gandalf uses the ring to bolster those around him rather than his own powers, and as much as I hate to say it; I am Against the proposed implementation at the moment, as it just does not sit right with me, the concept is wonderfully proposed but in order for it to sit right with me there needs to be some sort of interaction between Narya and other units/ heroes.

I appreciate the fact that you liked the form, but it also saddens me a bit that you disagree with the content. I absolutely respect your opinion though. As I both pointed out here and in our discussion about Gandalf, hope-infusing properties are lore-accurate indeed, but I can guarantee you that Gandalf will never be given any kind of leadership on any unit: his role is the one of a solitary mass-slayer. He's the mightiest hero of the faction, yet other heroes are supposed to be leaders in Gondor.

So, as I suggested, the only way to find a compromise is to view Gandalf's leadership of the Good as the power of his impressive spells (whenever he fights the Evil). Otherwise, there is no space left for additions of the sort you referred to. The leadership issue was in fact one of the major causes that caused many past proposals to sink. We didn't want to make the same mistake.
To clarify my view the thing is I like the idea, I think it is a good way to incorporate Narya, and I would be more than happy with if it included with some sort of leadership but without the leadership it seems to give Narya to Gandalf just for the sake of giving him Narya.
It saddens me too I disagree, because while my reason is for the idea my heart is against it, and I hate having to disagree with one of your beautiful ideas.
Thank you for explaining the reasoning behind the lack of leadership, I shall go with my reason now and say I am for the concept, as this does seem to be the only way. 
All your words are but to say: you are a woman, and your part is in the house. But when the men have died in battle and honour, you have leave to be burned in the house, for the men will need it no more. But I am of the House of Eorl and not a serving-woman. I can ride and wield blade, and I do not fear either pain or death.

But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.


My avatar is Romana, a favorite person of mine

Hamanathnath

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #6 am: 5. Jan 2017, 13:34 »
A wonderfully proposed idea as always. ;)  I am for this implementation of Narya.

Fredius

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #7 am: 5. Jan 2017, 14:22 »
Absolutely in favor. The stances system will make Gandalf an even more interesting hero. Since both Imladris and Gondor are set during the War of the Ring, it is only logical to give Narya to Gandalf :).

dkbluewizard

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #8 am: 5. Jan 2017, 15:22 »
I am for this concept clearly as it is lore accurate, but I do feel something has to go on Gandalf's standard Narya use, perhaps that could be where he gives leadership to allies as LordofLinks has suggested, but if we can't give Gandalf leadership in the standard icon, then Narya should do something balanced. I think the leadership wouldn't hurt as Gandalf had Leadership in BFME1.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Gandalf7000

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #9 am: 5. Jan 2017, 16:04 »
I Agree with this suggestion. Let's give Narya a proper spot in the mod!!! :)

I knew you wanted to have your Ring of Power back  xD
"Against the power of Gandalf, there can be no victory!" :D

dkbluewizard

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #10 am: 5. Jan 2017, 16:31 »
I have an idea for the standard part, what if Narya (in balance form) allows Gandalf's powers to replenish 25% faster? Mixed with Gandalf the White that would make his abilities recharge 50% faster, I don't know if that would be too fast or not maybe 15%?
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

DrHouse93

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #11 am: 5. Jan 2017, 17:01 »
I am for this idea, Walk ;)

Walküre

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #12 am: 5. Jan 2017, 17:04 »
I have an idea for the standard part, what if Narya (in balance form) allows Gandalf's powers to replenish 25% faster? Mixed with Gandalf the White that would make his abilities recharge 50% faster, I don't know if that would be too fast or not maybe 15%?

The Gandalf the White spell will provide greatly with replenishing his abilities much faster, in the next patch. So, to maintain the uniqueness and actual function of the spell (which draws a quite defined line between the two forms of Gandalf), I would rather leave things as they are. I don't see the need for that addition.

By the way, thank you for supporting the concept. Regarding leadership, as I previously explained to lordoflinks, there is very little we can do, lest the proposal be altogether rejected as the other ones in the past. Coming from someone who loved playing Gandalf back in the day, those were also very different times (Gandalf was really a force of nature). If we are to adapt this concept to the Edain Mod 4.0 (and to its system of defined roles), we necessarily have to do without leadership.

I am for this idea, Walk ;)

Grazie  ;)

dkbluewizard

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #13 am: 5. Jan 2017, 17:12 »
Well okay then Diewalkure, I don't remember what his actual power replenish ability was in BFME1 but I guess standard balances everything and allows Gandalf to function as he does now, so I am okay with this.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

Slawek56703

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #14 am: 5. Jan 2017, 17:41 »
I like this idea and how Nayra improve Gandalf abilities .I'm for this proposal.
If only Saruman stances increase/decrease his abilities damage instead of melee damage that would fit Wizard Class more too