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Autor Thema: Narya  (Gelesen 38545 mal)

Walküre

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #120 am: 30. Jan 2019, 03:27 »
Thanks for the support. I'll add your name to the list (a very long list) ;)

Yes, it has been pointed out already. And, hypothetically speaking, the problem seems to involve (mainly) the scenario in which he's about to cast a spell. Otherwise, if Gandalf is surrounded by trolls and other vicious heroes, and so needs to last longer on the battlefield, I doubt one would risk to leave him vulnerable just to use his abilities; when the number of enemies is overwhelmingly superior, leastways. Nevertheless, as a small guarantee, I made sure to keep the values quite low. I could simply lower them more, should necessity require.

Note that, not seldom, he's not able to cast his magic in full tranquillity. Either due to lagging or issues in target-finding, your opponent should have an adequate interval in which he can strike Gandalf and avoid his dreadful powers. Moreover, going solely for the offensive stance presents a further hazard: without Narya, he's going to suffer greatly from fire, poison and so on. The bubble-shield increases defence only.

Perhaps, increasing his standard weakness (his basic values, excluding stances) against the aforementioned damage characteristics and heroic abilities could be one way to balance this out, so that the choice of a given stance entails more side-effects.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #121 am: 9. Feb 2019, 23:47 »
Zitat
Ulumúri Level 1: The Horns of Ylmir resound in battle, in times of struggle and strife. For 15 seconds all allied units on the map are fearless. Surrounding units gain +10% attack.

Zitat
Level 10: Tutelage of Ossë - Thanks to the ancestral teachings of Ossë, Círdan grants all ships and siege weapons across the map +30% armour, +20% attack and +15% speed for a duration.

I just want to say how I really like these two nice additions to Cirdan's skillset. You can really feel the power of the sea, cleverly transferred to the battlefield. 
Mainly +15% speed to ships and siege weapons is something like wind in the sails ... :)

By the way ... I would remove due to balance reasons two additonal resistances ... it's only stance after all.
1) Magic resistance will have Vilya.
2) And poison ... poison sounds quite out of place.

Otherwise resistance to fire (Gandalf was immune to Sarumans fireball and fought with fiery deamon Balrong) fits perfectly, and ice can be melted by the fire ...

Zitat
Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire and ice.
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Feb 2019, 00:02 von Tiberius Ogden »

Julio229

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #122 am: 10. Feb 2019, 00:25 »
While I support the Narya proposal (it's one of the best ones crafted on this forum, after all), I don't believe the replacements for Cirdan's abilities are all that good in terms of their effects. The level 1 effect just seems like a huge reduction of its previous usefulness, and while it wouldn't be tied to Narya anymore, I believe it could use some higher values, to not lessen the impact of Cirdan too much.

On the topic of the new level 10 ability, leaving the whole Elrond thread and thus the need to replace the building bonus apart (a proposal which I'm not in support of), I believe the effect that replaces it, while useful in Arnor, won't be useful in Imladris at all. Imladris is the faction with what's probably the weakest siege alongside Rohan (and I'd say Rohan is slightly better), and the proposed effect would be far too niche for a level 10 ability. The previous iteration of it had the building bonus, and so was much less of a niche effect, in my opinion, but ships are (if I may say so) virtually non-existant and Imladris' siege doesn't fare much better. It could be said that this ability would be an incentive to get siege as Imla, but the nature of it (level 10, not such a big buff) doesn't really present a reason to do it when you can just focus on getting Imladris' troops or Loremasters out for better effectiveness that doesn't take so long to appear. So, overall I believe that the concept would need a buff on the level 1 and a change to be more useful on the level 10 for me to agree with it (leaving the whole Elrond issue apart again).


Walküre

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #123 am: 10. Feb 2019, 00:50 »
To Tiberius

I like them, too. They're now two fully marine abilities, encompassing pivotal aspects of the books. Sound-wise, Ulmo's horns will use the track I have presented (a loud, piercing rumbling), whereas Ossë will propagate didgeridoo sound-waves all over the map, resembling the murmurs of the ocean's abysses...
Not bad, not bad :P

I agree, resistance to magic must objectively go. I'm not sure about poison, though. Many of the Evil's devices make use of venomous darts/sorcery (think about the Necromancer) and, hence, intoxication is quite prominent by consequence. Personally, I view it as a state of gradual depletion and corrosion; therefore, it fits perfectly into the context, because Narya safeguards from weariness and steady weakening. Thematically, it's also tied to Dol Guldur and the entire quest of Gandalf, searching through the dungeons of the fortress. It would be a pity to not include it :)



To Julio

If it's a problem of values, we could always correct them; balance is a very voluble field to work on. Conceptually, I think there's nothing else to fix. Concerning his ultimate ability, it would certainly incentivise the usage of siege machinery, and that's quite indicative: Círdan is by nature a very focused character, specialised in reparation and ship support. Endowing him with a very siege-centred ability sounds just right. On the contrary, the former solution felt too generic, contrasting starkly with his detached presence in the lore. Nevertheless, if the matter gravitates around values, this is no insurmountable issue :)
To word it better, using a sea-related metaphor: there is no storm we cannot weather!

Speaking about Elrond, I hope you'll come back and leave your feedback. We need constructive criticism more than ever. The solution we've just found was a suffered one.

Tiberius Ogden

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #124 am: 10. Feb 2019, 00:58 »
I'm just thinking if hero who costs 1 400 needs really strong and useful abilities ...
I would buff the first ability from 15% to 25% attack bonus and the last one from 30% to 70% armor plus from 20% to 30% attack (to be worthy of the ultimate skill).
But contrary ... I really like the diversity and my friend Tienety is always talking about ingame diversity - that you, as a player, must have a choice.
So as you pointed out - a choice between siege with the loremasters, protected by units, and Imladris catapults, protected by Cirdan.

Also I am quite sad that you're not on board with us concerning Elrond's proposal. We reopened the whole thread because you and Oak had problems with removing restoration and adding invincibility.
It's happening from time to time, no problem. ;)

To Walk: I would add another nice argument - that Gandalf's heart (or soul) was never poisoned ... and we can't say that about Saruman for instance. So yes, lets keep resistance to poison. Something different from Nenya or Vilya, something more personal to Gandalf. ;)
« Letzte Änderung: 10. Feb 2019, 12:37 von Tiberius Ogden »

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #125 am: 11. Feb 2019, 19:19 »
I'm just thinking if hero who costs 1 400 needs really strong and useful abilities ...
I would buff the first ability from 15% to 25% attack bonus

Your idea is reasonable Tiberius. I remember that long time ago, when I proposed the idea of horns of Ulmö the value of attack was something like that but too much because of extension on all map and you have to consider that there's an additional immunity to fear. Regarding the immunity, Walküre my friend I remember we were discussing about removing it bacause it is redundant with the new options of imladris in 4.5? Should we consider to substitute it with something else more unique? Maybe we could make the value +20% but extended to all in the map without any other bonus ( I mean we are talking about the horns of a Vala, really powerful and able to reach any corner of middle earth, see the lore for more clarifications).

Addition: for balance sake we could also make the cooldown time a bit higher with respect to common level one active ability. It would be also a lore justification, such that the help of Ulmö is not something that can come very frequently, but rather a rare but powerful divine intervention.
« Letzte Änderung: 11. Feb 2019, 19:42 von AulëTheSmith »

tolgayurdal

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #126 am: 7. Dez 2020, 11:53 »
Greetings everyone :)

Firstly this thread has always been a part of discussions. It is a combination of almost perfect Gandalf and one of the mighty three rings. The suggestion is outstanding clearly as seen in favour list but might not be accepted for balance issue, i think. Thus i have another idea about this and would like to share it.

My offer based on faction characteristic such as all heroes of Rohan have mount ability because of a cavalry faction. So all of Gondor heroes can have at least one defensive aspect in their skills. The current situation that supported by this approaching is given below:

Gondor heroes;


Addition to this, it is known that Istari has been sent to Middle Earth against Sauron and allowed to use their full power only when it is necessary besides a couple of exceptions. Also Gandalf has been the real enemy of Sauron as being a maia who completed the task and came back to Undying Lands.

So my suggestion is that like Necromancer, Mithrandir should have two stances that are passive ability which can change automathicly depends on the situation in the battlefield.

Olorin shows his might against dark magic or actual threat for free people as seen in Moria vs Balrog or in Orthanc vs Saruman's fireball in the movie (Maybe vs Witch King in Minas Tirith, if Rohan has not come in the rightest time).

  • Emissary of Valar: When he uses his skills against maiar, ring heroes or supernatural life forms (Balrog, wyrm, wight, wraith etc), nearby allied heroes and buildings does not suffer any magical skill or spell for a time.

After taking the Ring of Fire from Cirdan, wherever he goes, brought hope, courage and rezistance against tyranny and weariness of time as the Shipwright did with it.

  • Wielder of Narya: All units gain fear and magic rezistance when he is nearby an allied buildings without weariness of time.

The main goal is that giving him a defensive aspect as he should be, not an ordinary a mass slayer who remained true to his mission, but making his protection kind against  magic for balancing, lore and his personality.

Lastly when Gandalf the Grey is resurrected after killing Durin's Bane by Eru himself and became Gandalf the White, it can be assumed that Mithrandir won't die before his task is finished. So, i think his 'buble protection' should be effective after purchasing his spell.

It might not be perfect solution for everything as intended but can be developed due to mechanics and stances.

Best regards.

« Letzte Änderung: 8. Dez 2020, 11:54 von tolgayurdal »

steadii

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #127 am: 24. Dez 2020, 19:56 »
I support this not only because it is lore wise but because it is smart. Gandalf will be the same since BFMEI but will receive some nice touch and Cirdan will receive nice compensation which fits to his marine nature.

dkbluewizard2

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #128 am: 26. Dez 2020, 17:48 »
Gandalf should have Narya sometime during 4.6 I hope Edain makes this happen.

AmosVogel

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Re: Narya
« Antwort #129 am: 7. Jan 2021, 23:22 »
Agreed! +1

Also Saruman should get his self made ring ^^

https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35976.0.html

Happy new year!

Edit: Lol, ive already agreed!
« Letzte Änderung: 7. Jan 2021, 23:35 von AmosVogel »
"Viva México"