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Shadow of Mordor/War vs Edain canon?

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Shadowlord:
Ever since the trailer of Shadow of War came out, I have been thinking and breathing Lord of the Rings lore non-stop.

As such, for this topic I wanted to discuss with you guys on what your thoughts are on the Middle-Earth Shadow series continuity vs the continuity of the original Tolkien mythology. Including whether or not it would be beneficial to implement aspects of the Shadow of Mordor/War series into the Edain mod. This can include units, voice lines, music, characters and more.

I am aware many hardcore Tolkien fans prefer to ignore the several Middle-Earth games   due to how many aspects of those games contradict prexisting lore for the sake of creative liberty.

But I feel that the game has its own merits and the new lore it introduces could fit in Tolkein lore and the Edain mod in turn.

Anyway, all opinions are welcome and I look forward to discussing this topic with you guys in greater detail.

Walküre:
Hello. First of all, we already have an existing thread that deals with this game, but you were right in opening this topic, provided that we link the whole debate with Edain-based content (as you did). Only within these boundaries can we enable an on-topic discussion, while the other thread is focused on the game itself.

On the matter, I confess I'm not very much familiar with the details of the topic, although I do have knowledge of a few 'controversial' aspects. For the sake of the debate itself, I thus suggest you list the main points that you deem worthy of being considered, in regards of the lore and of the propriety of hypothetical implementations from this source; that would certainly contribute to order things more clearly. Nevertheless, I have to say I'm quite sceptical about this kind of inclusions, given that very serious issues concerning gameplay could arise: how could one add many more elements in a quite already-consolidated context? This is not saying that major modifications are not conceivable, as the Edain Mod is always being improved via diverse means, but the problem is to discern whether this typology of changes are suitable for the very Mod in the first place.

And, of course, here we come to the lore. Believe me, I'm personally very much open-minded regarding new alternatives, due to my conviction that the vast lore should be seen as a coherent ensemble of customary interpretations (which can imply different versions); but certain relevant limits should not be disregarded too. This is not a matter of being a purist or not. It's just, in my opinion, trying to keep the Edain Mod as much consistent as possible, if we take into account the fact that the lore and the canonical cinematographic sources are simply paramount in the game (the addition of fictional material becomes therefore a very sensitive of a subject). Let us refer to Celebrimbor as an example, being him one of the prime characters involved: having him wander around as a loose spirit is a violation of the canon that could hardly be reconciled with the Edain Mod's principal characteristics and essence. I may have picked an extreme case as a reference, but that should give the idea of what I was talking about. Anyway, I'm interested in what this discussion is to result in  :)

Shadowlord:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 20. Mär 2017, 00:50 ---I thus suggest you list the main points that you deem worthy of being considered, in regards of the lore and of the propriety of hypothetical implementations from this source;

--- Ende Zitat ---

In all respects I didn't list all of my main points yet in order to keep this forum open ended for now. But I do think the existence of spirit Celebrimbor is one topic that is worthy of discussion. Yes a character of his name does contradict Tolkien canon. However I wouldn't dismiss his character entirely because of the circumstances he was in during the events of Shadow of Mordor.

If hypothetically he would be implemented in the Edain mod, I could see him as a hero for an Eregion faction. Although it would be based on Celebrimbor while he was still alive. In terms of his Wraith like powers, that is probably another contradiction to the canon however I think it would be cool in a flavor context if his abilities were similar to that of the game. Powers that increase his speed or attack rate, stealth themed abilities, maybe even an ultimate that is inspired from his One Ring ability in the Bright Lord DLC without implying that he has the actual One Ring, perhaps it could be the strength that he draws from a ring he created for himself.

Many of the Heroes in the Edain game has abilities that their characters normally don't have in the books, for example Aragorn never had a Blade Master ability that gave him super human speed and reflexes, or Ugluk's Dark Medicine ability that restores both his wounds and that of nearby Uruks within a short timespan.  Hero abilities in general are meant to be gameplay representations of their feats in the book without having to be too realistic and I could see the same apply to Celebrimbor superhuman abilities as being abilities he gained from his own Ring.

Who knows, anyways thanks for the comment DieWalküre.

The_Necromancer0:
For me, the "Shadow of" games are an abomination of lore. I've looked a bit into it and in addition to completely made up events (the forging of a second ruling ring, wraith taking control of a body) they have also rearranged the timeline completely stacking multiple different time on each other. I won't be much help for this since I'm so opposed to those game but I'll just say that the implementation of media from the games into the mod is possible (voices, inspiration from the models, ect...) However, in my eyes implementation of mechanics and characters is unlikely due to the nature of the games.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 20. Mär 2017, 09:16 ---For me, the "Shadow of" games are an abomination of lore. I've looked a bit into it and in addition to completely made up events (the forging of a second ruling ring, wraith taking control of a body) they have also rearranged the timeline completely stacking multiple different time on each other.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Yes, this is the issue I was addressing. This exact main motive of the whole series is what doesn't convince me at all. We're not talking about minor reinventions or some exotic reinterpretations. There are many questionable choices that simply don't comply even minimally with the most basic of the above-mentioned canons. A case about which was made a wrong comparison: it's true that many features of the Mod feed from the canonical sources and are bent to the logic of gameplay at the same time, but issues as Celebrimbor himself just go beyond all these premises. His condition as a wandering spirit, violating the rules of the Halls of Mandos, could not be reconciled with the Edain Mod's standards. By the way, hinting at an additional Elven faction is an even less realistic of an eventuality.

Listing some possibilities could help us more with the arrangement of the discussion. There might be small pieces that could indeed be viewed favourably, but I'm not acquainted with that game that much. This is a contribution that ought to come, in my opinion, from the author of the very thread.

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