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Autor Thema: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?  (Gelesen 5590 mal)

-DJANGO-

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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #15 am: 7. Aug 2017, 14:09 »
Although i like the imagination of Guardians of Cerin Amroth or Defenders of the Celebrant, it would contradict what i said above; that Lorien should not get that “easily“ elite Pikes.

As for the ability of the Palace Guard, we are discussing internally, if an ability switch with the Imladris pikes would make more sense.
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Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #16 am: 7. Aug 2017, 14:29 »
I totally agree with you, the spearmen should´t be the focus of the faction, that should be elite-archers...

My motivation for this suggestion was another one: Lorien needs a way to defend against a rider-strategy independend from the outpost.
The normal spear-men are without augrades practically useless. With an upgrade and their fast movement-ability they are a bit more usefull, but still in many cases to weak, which forces the player to use palace guards.
My idea was not to improve the role of spearmen in Loriens ranks, but to weaken it.
The new unit should be weaker in armour than the current palace-guard coping this weakness through better mobility.

Which of the two abbilities of the Imladris Spearmen do you mean Porcupine Formation or Shieldwall? I would definitly think the current abbility of the Palace Guards would suit them well, but am not sure about the reverse.
I´d love to get an opportunity to recruit better spearmen with no static but more dynamic abbilities adequate for the overall theme of the faction.
This thoughts lead me back to the idea of replacing the palace guard with a more dynamic Lorien-equivalent...
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

-DJANGO-

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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #17 am: 7. Aug 2017, 14:46 »
Zitat
Which of the two abbilities of the Imladris Spearmen do you mean Porcupine Formation or Shieldwall?
- the Porcupine, forgot to mention it  [ugly]

Zitat
The normal spear-men are without augrades practically useless. With an upgrade and their fast movement-ability they are a bit more usefull, but still in many cases to weak, which forces the player to use palace guards.
- I disagree here. With Upgrade Elvish Blade that deals the double amout of damage, what a forged blade upgrade usually deals and the possibility of using Singers or getting Haldir Leadership, i never made the experience, that you could not fight elite/heroic Cav or heavy Battle-troll spam with just Lorien standard pikes. Due to the lack of HP you'll need a lot of bataillons of course...
I dont understand request for another dynamic pike unit. The whole faction is build on the principle that the standard Lorien units characterize speed and mobility whilst the units from the Mirkwood outpost stand for armored/slower units.
« Letzte Änderung: 7. Aug 2017, 14:50 von -DJANGO- »
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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #18 am: 7. Aug 2017, 16:14 »
I agree with most of what DJANGO has stated on the matter. I remember that some us had proposed the replacement of Lórien pikemen with a new hypothetical unit comprising Woodsmen (whom you would recruit in the Beornings Hut). In doing so, Lórien would be totally deprived of any lancer-type unit, as it is logical in accordance to the very essence of the realm, which is indeed embodied by speed and dynamism. This goes, of course, with the assumption that Lórien might suffer indeed such a loss in the very early phase of the game, while the faction would become very much dependent on the people of the woods (the hut).

Nevertheless, considered the difficulty of such proposal and implementation of a new concept, I would nonetheless accept the compromise suggested in the previous passages of the debate. Because Palace Guards are indeed the royal guard of Thranduil and to him only they ought to be related (given his sacred status); and I would also fancy the idea of seeing the regular lancers of Mirkwood in the game, so that we stick with more adherence to the cinematographic trilogy, along with providing Mirkwood with a real lancer-type unit which is meant for open battle.

Isildurs Fluch

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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #19 am: 7. Aug 2017, 19:05 »
Maybe I haven´t give them enough chance to prove their usefulness, always going for Mirkwood instead  :D

I´m not a big fan of deleting Lorien-spearmen instead implementing Woodsmen in the Beorninger Hut from a gameplay-perspective. This would weaken Lorien a lot against early rider-rushes. If your not able to defend a Beorninger hut or didn´t have the opportunity to get one early one you would be totally screwed outside the base loosing zhe dominance on the map completely to your opponent.
A good example of this would be Isengart , which has kind of the same problem early on, but can cope with it focussing on Lvl2-Urukpits or Wargriders. Lorien literally would have no way to compete but using risky hit-and-run-tactics, which again can be easily answered with riders.

I actually see no need in implementing good armoured Mirkwood-spearmen. This wood actually give Lorien a cheaper version of better spears causing the opposite of what was intended...
In my oppinion Palace Guards can be deleted as recruitable unit without substitution. The Mirkwood-outpost would still be one of the most important and powerfull outposts in the game.
I also would be totally fine with the Lorien-Spearmen being the only recruitable unit of regular spearmen, if they are usefull enough.

The Defenders of Celebrant/Guardians of Cerith Amroth (can´t decide which name I like more) could be an heroic unit as the Guardians of Caras Galadhon which allows the player to have a very strong but expensive spearunit without having any focus on heavy spears at all.
I could imagine an ability of them guarding a building while being invisible and than getting an atack boost when enemies arrive.
This would give the player another spearunit, but only very limitted and focussed on defense...
Ersatz für die Elchreiter:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35514.0.html

Berittene Schützen für Imladris:
https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,35515.0.html


Vielen Dank an CMG für Avatar und Banner...

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Re: Is Lothlorien Too Reliant On The Mirkwood Outpost?
« Antwort #20 am: 7. Aug 2017, 23:52 »
The hero-unit we need would exactly be Palace Guards, implemented via a major hero's ability and bound to the very king, as their elitist and royal characterisation suggests. A truly unique unit, which serves its purpose in the best of the ways possible: guarding the head of the faction.

Furthermore, I wouldn't really mind the presence of regular lancers at all, for I really believe that Mirkwood should dispose of heavy lancer-type troops, being heavy infantry the very focus of the sub-faction. And providing Lórien with a solid defence is also a very important aspect. That said, the regular lancers would obviously be equal to swordsmen or archers, in order to avoid creating another replica of the king's guard.