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Autor Thema: Artificial Intelligence  (Gelesen 595 mal)

Isaac632

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 35
Artificial Intelligence
« am: 21. Sep 2017, 18:06 »
As I rarely get to play multiplayer with the Edain Mod, I spent a lot of my time playing against computer opponents in skirmish mode. Unfortunately, since day one of the Battle for Middle Earth, the A.I. has always been programmed somewhat poorly. The computer is always swarming everyone with infantry and making beelines for enemy citadels whenever possible, even though the arrow towers and walls will get their soldiers killed. Even worse, the computer players always have free visibility of every spot on the map, have free resources, and free command points, meaning they will always have a larger and better-equipped army than you, especially in the late game. On higher difficulties, the strategy of the computers don't change much--they only get even more free resources and command points, and free power-points so that they have access to spellbook powers earlier than should be possible.

Suffice to say, this has led to a lot of frustration. As a lot of people in the Discord group host Edain Mod games much too early in the morning, while I'm asleep, I really don't have much of a choice besides fighting computer players. Is it too much to ask that there be an overhaul of the enemy A.I.? The only way to make things remotely fair is to impose harsh handicaps on them, because they will always have an advantage over you, even on easy mode, because of the free stuff they get. It's not as bad a cheat as invincible units or something, but it's still pretty cheeky, and it's a sign of a lazily, poorly programmed AI.

In the future, I would really like to see a more lifelike A.I. in the computer players. Good Faction computers would be more defensive, while Evil Faction computers would be more aggressive. They don't have free resources or command points, so they have to be more careful about what they do with their units instead of sending them after faraway targets without regard to their losses. The computers should be aware of the strengths and weaknesses of their faction, as well as the faction's play style. They shouldn't leave their fortress gates wide open just to let out one battalion of foot-soldiers at a time. They utilize their hero units better and actually use their abilities in combat. Instead of the computer difficulty increasing how much stuff they get, it should decide the effectiveness of their strategies and their determination to stay alive. I expect to fight "easy" opponents when I'm busy fooling around and trying new things, and then "Normal" for more serious games where I have to actually think about what I'm doing.

This is becoming a real problem. It's common for strategy games to give computer players advantages in resources or strength to bolster the difficulty, but there comes a point where it's a blatant and cheesy way to make up for a poorly programmed AI. I really want an overhaul, because if I'm going to be spending most of my time not on multiplayer, I at least want the computer to be "challenging" rather than "unfair".

SilverElf

  • Bilbos Festgast
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  • Beiträge: 9
  • I will be your guide!
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #1 am: 21. Sep 2017, 18:11 »
The AI needs to have cheats to be challanging, They can't think like we do, For example they dont know if they need to spend their money on a hero or get more units. We can, We can think of what to do in game. If the AI doesn't cheat, They will be to weak and not challanging anymore

Trondheim9

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 35
  • I give hope to men. I keep none for myself.
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #2 am: 21. Sep 2017, 18:33 »
In addition to what SilverElf said, overhauling the AI is no simple task.  It's EA's fault to begin with, so there isn't much the Edain team can do about it.  They can only do so much within the limits that are already established by BFME 2 ROTWK.  That's my understanding of it. 

Isaac632

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 35
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #3 am: 21. Sep 2017, 18:44 »
There has to be a way. I know it can be done--it would take hours and hours, but it can be, I know it. I'm willing to wait for it; I'm willing to work for it, too. If I had money, I'd be willing to PAY for it, no less. We just need to find some expert coder somewhere who specializes in it... I can hardly play multiplayer at all, so I'm stuck with this cheap, unfair, cheesy and poorly programmed excuse for AI, and that just ruins a lot of the gameplay for me in itself.

There must be a way. This needs to happen. It will help the mod and the game so much.

Thranduils

  • Bilbos Festgast
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  • Beiträge: 15
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #4 am: 21. Sep 2017, 19:06 »
There has to be a way. I know it can be done--it would take hours and hours, but it can be, I know it. I'm willing to wait for it; I'm willing to work for it, too. If I had money, I'd be willing to PAY for it, no less. We just need to find some expert coder somewhere who specializes in it... I can hardly play multiplayer at all, so I'm stuck with this cheap, unfair, cheesy and poorly programmed excuse for AI, and that just ruins a lot of the gameplay for me in itself.

There must be a way. This needs to happen. It will help the mod and the game so much.


The team does the best that may be needed by specialists in this project and naturally other people will not ask for more if you want to help them

Thranduils

  • Bilbos Festgast
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  • Beiträge: 15
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #5 am: 21. Sep 2017, 19:07 »
we have to understand them trying the best they can

FG15

  • Administrator
  • Schwanenritter
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  • Beiträge: 4.141
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #6 am: 21. Sep 2017, 19:13 »
It can't be done without changing the engine, and that would be illegal.

Isaac632

  • Thain des Auenlandes
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  • Beiträge: 35
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #7 am: 21. Sep 2017, 21:45 »
*sighs sadly* Ah, okay. So it's really more of a legal issue. I guess it can't be helped then.

I'm going to be stuck waking up at the wrong times in the morning, unable to play edain mod with other people, and stuck with an unfair AI every time. It may just be better to accept it rather than trying to change it.

It's really disappointing, but... maybe I can get used to it eventually.

FG15

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Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #8 am: 21. Sep 2017, 21:52 »
Also, even if it were legal, we would need someone to either being able to change the engine, without the actual source code, or even redevelope one, which both is rather unlikely.

I can promise you that there will be some more things for singleplayer in the future.

Melkor Bauglir

  • Bündnisgenosse der Elben und Menschen
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  • Beiträge: 1.195
Re: Artificial Intelligence
« Antwort #9 am: 22. Sep 2017, 12:00 »
Apart from that: The last time I checked, the AI was almost trivial to beat, since it is insanely predictable and you only have to survive the first 10 minutes, no matter the difficulty. Afterwards, the AI breaks down and has no chance of ever coming back, since it is god-aweful in managing real armies.
Granted that experience is not that fresh, but since this was always the case with the BfME-AI (especially in Edain where battles are much more important), I kind of doubt this has changed much.
Edit: That being said -I completely get your point! Cheesy AI which only survives on insane multipliers is indeed a lazy way of programming.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

PS: Only in earlier stages of the 4.0-beta the AI was hard. Although, "impossible to beat" on brutal might be slightly more accurate. xD
PPS: OK, I guess many versions in the past, Isengard's AI was also ridiculous. But that was before my time, so I won't count that.