28. Mär 2024, 17:14 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities  (Gelesen 37484 mal)

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #120 am: 26. Jan 2019, 00:19 »
I'm back   :) first of, welcome back to MU, Tiberius. I'll start from here but I can see there are many new discussions this week, such that I have to reorganize a bit my ideas in order to answer/participate to all the debates.  [ugly]

I support general idea and I really like all skills, wonderful arguments behind them and not generic like "fireball" or something like that.  8-|
1) That Smaug is summonable from the beginning and you have to unlock him through the spellbook. That is quite boring for me and it doesn't help to anything. Also I wonder how AI will react.

Thank you, glad you like general idea behind the concept. Let's analyse your points:

1)-3) it could seem boring but since we want him to be really powerful I had to put some limitations. And I thought it was a good one to connect him with the central soul of the faction: goblins are not use to produce richness, nor they are able to upgrade their equipment by their own; for these reasons they are plunderers by definition. Pay attention to the fact that the spell is more general it will affect not only Smaug  but also other creatures (usually quite less smart than him  :D).  If you have some other idea in mind, I always like to listen everyone's suggestion here, and maybe change something in the concept outside the main skeleton (substantially his abilities, as well as his leveling system).
Regarding AI, maybe it will have another system for Smaug. Take the Necromancer as an example.

2) It leads me to second thing - levelling. Game is based on levelling. You level heroes, units, buildings ... it has not only strategic but mainly RPG feeling. I would be careful with exceptions and Smaug doesn't seem to me like the best candidate for it. He isn't so ancient ... Sauron is ancient, Galadriel is ancient, wizards-maiar are ancient. They are definitely better candidates to start with full arsenal of powers (I mean on level 10 as you proposed for Smaug)

2) I think Smaug is very suitable for an alternative way of leveling instead. We are not talking about leveling, but rather in which way this happens :) . First, Smaug is not ancient as the character you mentioned (relatively speaking), but still is an ancient creature and such a big and mighty  Dragon doesn't really need experience to level up, it is quite weird after all. He's born to be a killing machine. My idea is that a creature like him deserves a tribute in order to have him fighting for your side. The more you offer to him, the more he will fight for you. But, he just have all the power to fight without needing further experience on the battlefield.
Still an important note: I don't mean he will start on level ten anyway, I mean that if you want his full arsenal you have to pay him each of the treasure. 
Initially I proposed something based on normal leveling as you suggested, but then I changed my mind ( if I'm not wrong someone here suggest me the old treasure system, I don't rember) and I definely prefer the treasure system. Furthermore, That RPG feeling you are talking about is some that I can see more to other heroes. Smaug does not definely give me that feeling.
To conclude, Smaug is a far more complex and smart character than a Balrog. The Balrog is substantially a really powerful hound of Melkor  :D A dark maiar of destruction. Maybe Gothmog is the only exception, being him leader of Balrogs. But that's another story :)

Tiberius Ogden

  • Gast
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #121 am: 26. Jan 2019, 01:43 »
I don't mean he will start on level ten anyway, I mean that if you want his full arsenal you have to pay him each of the treasure. 
Initially I proposed something based on normal leveling as you suggested, but then I changed my mind ( if I'm not wrong someone here suggest me the old treasure system, I don't rember) and I definely prefer the treasure system.

Then yes, old treasure system was unique and its return in some way would be great and characteristic for Misty Mountains. Such system would make them different from others. ;)

dkbluewizard2

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 52
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #122 am: 30. Mär 2020, 14:44 »
Hey Aule and community, I was re-reading the proposal and was wondering why the effects of Smaug's hypnotic gaze was singled out by Sauron, MoS, and the Nazgul. Is it because they don't have conventional eyes?

If this is so then why not Karsh as well? But on a personal preference note, I feel Smaug's gaze shouldn't effect those mentioned above, and it shouldn't effect the three ring bearers either (Gandalf, Galadriel, or Elrond).

tolgayurdal

  • Gast
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #123 am: 30. Mär 2020, 18:37 »
I think this great consept deserves to be implemented in the next update as mostly replying anything about Smaug. The craftsman solves the mechanism how to use the dragon in balance. The one thing is sure that it will take time to see him at full strength as being active in the battlefield. The ring form seems to need a rework because he can be op for other players (not recommended), but i am not sure anything about that.

As a result, i am for this proposal.

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #124 am: 31. Mär 2020, 15:01 »
Thank you, both of you, for your supportive words. I assume it’s going to take a little bit of time, still, to see whether our labouring and discussing will actually bring the result we set out to achieve. Regardless of it, the topic was shown to be one of the most popular in the forum and a veritable workplace of concepts. I hope we will soon hear more about our favourite fire-breathing titan ;)

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #125 am: 1. Mai 2020, 12:42 »
First of all guys, excuse me for the late response, both of you  :)

tolgayurdal, i agree the ring form needs at least some revision. I remember i crafted it as basic idea, but it is in some aspects still work in progress.
The complete pathway to come at a full power dragon is indeed long, but it was designed to match a more balanced game. That is especially because all we agree that Smaug deserves an above the average might. This goal can be achieved only paying a certain cost and so maintaing the the weighing plates of balance as more equal as possible   :)
By the way, three years have passed since the very first proposal i made for Smaug (to be precise, here's the first and original suggestion, which subsequently has generated this very thread, date back to 22th of may 2017 :D : https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33098.msg457939.html#msg457939).

Many things in Edain economy,gameplay and balance has changed. Futhermore, i have read many desires from the community to have a more simple tribute system for Smaug (what everyone want to avoid is to reapeat a similar game experience like 3.8.1).

Last but not least, there's an obvious growing insterest in MM spellbook.
Like every other factions in the new version 4.5.x, need to satisfy high quality standards. I have seen some suggestions have been advanced recently.
Since this proposal has the central spell in it, i want to clarify a point for @everyone: don't feel yourself "obliged" to cross or quote my work here before doing your own proposal. The popularity of the thread isn't a sufficient reason, and fame never was my prime goal.
I'm not saying it bacause false modesty or whatever, rather i'm very sincere. I would like to heard and debates any new interesting idea about MM and its spellbook.
I myself evaluating some new ideas on how to make the central spell a little bit simpler and iconic with respect to the current version, while keeping solid the whole design for Smaug.

Hey Aule and community, I was re-reading the proposal and was wondering why the effects of Smaug's hypnotic gaze was singled out by Sauron, MoS, and the Nazgul. Is it because they don't have conventional eyes?

If this is so then why not Karsh as well? But on a personal preference note, I feel Smaug's gaze shouldn't effect those mentioned above, and it shouldn't effect the three ring bearers either (Gandalf, Galadriel, or Elrond).

I agree, i'd extend it to faction leaders/ring heroes. In this way Smaug could control a ring bearer and make him/her die to obtain the ring himself. Not balanced at all.