28. Mär 2024, 09:27 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities  (Gelesen 37468 mal)

esparado87

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 28
  • Love BFME mods :D
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #30 am: 25. Okt 2017, 15:04 »
Yeah, about Smaug being a ring hero AND FLYING WHILE AT IT...

Doesn't this mean that if Smaug dies on unpassable mountain terrarin or over water then the ring becomes impossible to get (i guess you could wait out for Gollum to take  back the ring...even though it would take some time)?

I think this was the reason why you could not use units/heros with ring on transport boat and Witch King could not fly with the ring in the vanilla game.
« Letzte Änderung: 26. Okt 2017, 03:09 von esparado87 »

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #31 am: 25. Okt 2017, 20:52 »
Yeah, about the Smaug being a ring hero AND FLYING WHILE AT IT...

Does't this mean that if Smaug dies on unpassable mountain terrarin or over water then the ring becomes impossible to get (i guess you could wait out for Gollum to take  back the ring...even though it would take some time)?

I think this was the reason why you could not use units/heros with ring on transport boat and Witch King could not fly with the ring in the vanilla game.

Hi esparado :) welcome to the discussion ;)
I did not think about these issues. Probably also in the 3.8.1 patch there were these issues since Smaug was a ring feature (and he could fly). But,you know, we cannot avoid totally any problem. I don't know what could be a possible solution. Btw, what do you think about the very core of the concept? :)

Gnomi

  • Administrator
  • Bewahrer des roten Buches
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 12.617
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #32 am: 25. Okt 2017, 21:04 »
If I remember correctly the ring stayed in the treasury in 3.81. So Smaug didn't loose it upon death.
But esparado is correct - this was a reason why Smaug never was a normal ring hero in edain. Also this is a really big issue and not a small problem, which should never be overlooked in a concept. Just imagine you're playing and you can see the ring all the time, but you can't reach it, because it lays 2 meters away in a mountain area. This is just frustrating for every player without much counterplay.

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #33 am: 25. Okt 2017, 22:55 »
If I remember correctly the ring stayed in the treasury in 3.81. So Smaug didn't loose it upon death.
But esparado is correct - this was a reason why Smaug never was a normal ring hero in edain. Also this is a really big issue and not a small problem, which should never be overlooked in a concept. Just imagine you're playing and you can see the ring all the time, but you can't reach it, because it lays 2 meters away in a mountain area. This is just frustrating for every player without much counterplay.

Hi Gnomi, thank you very much for your feedback :) now I remember. Currently we cannot sadly repeat the same function, due to the new ring system, so...I have no idea how to solve this issue, neither I think there is a way to avoid the drop in not walking regions like water or something else via coding... :(

Fredius

  • Edain Betatesting
  • Galadhrim
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 712
  • It's good to be evil
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #34 am: 25. Okt 2017, 22:57 »
If I remember correctly the ring stayed in the treasury in 3.81. So Smaug didn't loose it upon death.
But esparado is correct - this was a reason why Smaug never was a normal ring hero in edain. Also this is a really big issue and not a small problem, which should never be overlooked in a concept. Just imagine you're playing and you can see the ring all the time, but you can't reach it, because it lays 2 meters away in a mountain area. This is just frustrating for every player without much counterplay.

But I presume that you tackled this issue with the new Gollum system right? If the Ring is temporarily unavailable because of this, then that's something I'd be willing to accept for making Smaug a Ring-hero.

esparado87

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 28
  • Love BFME mods :D
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #35 am: 25. Okt 2017, 23:00 »
Yeah, about the Smaug being a ring hero AND FLYING WHILE AT IT...

Does't this mean that if Smaug dies on unpassable mountain terrarin or over water then the ring becomes impossible to get (i guess you could wait out for Gollum to take  back the ring...even though it would take some time)?

I think this was the reason why you could not use units/heros with ring on transport boat and Witch King could not fly with the ring in the vanilla game.

Hi esparado :) welcome to the discussion ;)
I did not think about these issues. Probably also in the 3.8.1 patch there were these issues since Smaug was a ring feature (and he could fly). But,you know, we cannot avoid totally any problem. I don't know what could be a possible solution. Btw, what do you think about the very core of the concept? :)

All of it except the ring hero thing is good in my eyes, so a Yes from me if the ring hero issue is fixed.

Can Gollum get the ring back on unpassable mountain and water then?
Or does this work only on passable terrain?

If I remember correctly the ring stayed in the treasury in 3.81. So Smaug didn't loose it upon death.
But esparado is correct - this was a reason why Smaug never was a normal ring hero in edain. Also this is a really big issue and not a small problem, which should never be overlooked in a concept. Just imagine you're playing and you can see the ring all the time, but you can't reach it, because it lays 2 meters away in a mountain area. This is just frustrating for every player without much counterplay.

Hi Gnomi, thank you very much for your feedback :) now I remember. Currently we cannot sadly repeat the same function, due to the new ring system, so...I have no idea how to solve this issue, neither I think there is a way to avoid the drop in not walking regions like water or something else via coding... :(

Could mayby fix it by having Smaug only crawl when he is a ringhero (give him a drawback for being much stronger or something like that?)
Or the ring makes him so greedy that he always search for more riches on ground..idk.. :P
« Letzte Änderung: 25. Okt 2017, 23:12 von esparado87 »

FG15

  • Administrator
  • Ringträger
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 5.268
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #36 am: 25. Okt 2017, 23:13 »
If the ring lands in unpassable terrain, Gollum will get it, but won't be able to move or leave this area anymore.

Also, please could you stop writing double (or even triple) posts.

esparado87

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 28
  • Love BFME mods :D
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #37 am: 25. Okt 2017, 23:16 »
If the ring lands in unpassable terrain, Gollum will get it, but won't be able to move or leave this area anymore.

Also, please could you stop writing double (or even triple) posts.

Well, then Smaug cannot be a flying Ringhero for sure then, unless the Edain 3.8 method can be brought back somehow.

Walküre

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Hoher König von Gondor
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 4.706
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #38 am: 25. Okt 2017, 23:29 »
Smaug being solely a stationary Ring hero could deprive the concept of half of its true potential, I would say. The dragon were endowed with robust and mighty wings, meant to fly and take him to the highest surfaces of the ether. I'm quite torn side in regards of such a rendition. It's true that the One Ring could render his greed almost unbearable to sustain, resulting in Smaug being unable to fly due to the burden of his longings. That's quite problematic nonetheless.

If the engine makes it feasible, what if Gollum appeared normally in random places of the map, should the hero fall? The evident consequence is that the opponent would find it harder to gain control of the One himself, since he would be forced to slay Smaug first (not a very easy of a deed), and then he would have to go in pursuit of the Ring once again, with the hazard of the enemy finding it before the others. A quite complex dilemma.

esparado87

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 28
  • Love BFME mods :D
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #39 am: 26. Okt 2017, 00:02 »
Is it possible when Smaug is touching the ring, the ring goes to the building Smaug was recruited from (dragon lair outpost or whatever it will be called)?
This way Smaug will be able to be a Ringhero without losing the ability to fly (for the enemy to take the ring, the building must be destroyed).


The way Imladris gets the Ringhero (Elrond getting the ring transports the ring too the fellowship), is it possible to move the ring to a outpost instead of a herosquad(fellowship)?


Or mayby when Smaug is touching the ring, then a "hero" (goblin builder unit design) can be recruited and that "hero" is carrying the ring very slow because the cart is heavy and the ring is making it even harder.
As long as the Goblin cart "hero" is recruited and alive, then Smaug's dragon sickness ability gets stronger or Smaug is stronger overall.

Could kinda compare this with Lothlorien ringhero system, Smaug = Galadriel(that has no choise) and Frodo = Goblin cart "hero".


The last suggestion might be a bit weird, but it will fix the Smaug flying ring hero problem.
« Letzte Änderung: 26. Okt 2017, 03:14 von esparado87 »

dkbluewizard

  • Gastwirt zu Bree
  • **
  • Beiträge: 125
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #40 am: 26. Okt 2017, 01:49 »
As Boromir states in the Cartoon LOTR, "And there sits our quest." You brought up a very valid point esparado87, this is the ring hero MM gets? If Smaug dies, Gollum can pick up the ring but just sits there and can't go anywhere, doesn't seem fun to me.

However, I love Aule's idea, shame, what is the communities decision on this? Yes we can't avoid every problem, but Aule's idea is a good one, though esparado87 is correct and to just have the ring stationary for the rest of the game is unfair, I don't know.

What are we to do? I mean when Galadriel gets the ring, doesn't the ring disappear? Or if Frodo dies does he drop it? Smaug's loss of the ring could be acceptable like that I guess.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

NoldorSithLordsShipwright

  • Gast
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #41 am: 26. Okt 2017, 05:16 »
The simplest solution in my opinion would be for Gollum to be able to teleport, but that would be problematic for the issues pointed out above.

Would it be possible to limit this teleportation?

AulëTheSmith

  • Elronds Berater
  • **
  • Beiträge: 300
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #42 am: 27. Okt 2017, 22:46 »
Even if I deem Smaug a very important character ( i put all my passion in the work ) I don't want the team to change the actual system only because of this issue. I think I will change the concept instead, studying a solution. This could mean that new constrains could be added, and that could even more justify the great power of Smaug. I just have some ideas.
The idea of esperado about transferring the ring to the dragon lair is good, but has an edge: when Smaug pick up the ring a dragon lair must be present in game, otherwise the ring cannot be stored. I think I'm going to elaborate something around this building-based concept, as it was in the 3.8.1 .
If anyone have an some other ideas, I would like to know as always :)

dkbluewizard

  • Gastwirt zu Bree
  • **
  • Beiträge: 125
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #43 am: 28. Okt 2017, 05:30 »
I am NOT in favor of the entire idea being scraped either. I know Aule is good enough to come up with a good solution. I have faith.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

esparado87

  • Thain des Auenlandes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 28
  • Love BFME mods :D
Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #44 am: 28. Okt 2017, 06:07 »
Even if I deem Smaug a very important character ( i put all my passion in the work ) I don't want the team to change the actual system only because of this issue. I think I will change the concept instead, studying a solution. This could mean that new constrains could be added, and that could even more justify the great power of Smaug. I just have some ideas.
The idea of esperado about transferring the ring to the dragon lair is good, but has an edge: when Smaug pick up the ring a dragon lair must be present in game, otherwise the ring cannot be stored. I think I'm going to elaborate something around this building-based concept, as it was in the 3.8.1 .
If anyone have an some other ideas, I would like to know as always :)

Well, if the Dragon Lair is destroyed then Smaug will not be able to pick up the ring, it's as easy as that :)
I guess the Dragon Lair have to be protected at all cost, by having the Dragon Lair as near the main base as possible and having it guarded while the ring is in the building.

If there is no way to have a building occupy the ring with the new ring system, then mayby the ring could act like a Denethor (like a Denethor was before as a stationary hero at the main base)

Smaug captures ring -> ring acts kinda like a stationary Denethor (Edain 4.3).
« Letzte Änderung: 28. Okt 2017, 06:13 von esparado87 »