[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions
Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities
AulëTheSmith:
--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 19. Nov 2017, 14:22 ---Well based on Edain, I think the Hypnotic gaze was just going to act like Saruman's Wormtongue ability. But like you said, that isn't very unique. I mean, I guess you could have it "cripple" like Lurtz's ability, but as the hero survives they reveal what they know about their faction. As the Goblin Player, you can see the enemies resources, powers, and basically everything about the faction.
This is canonical because it represents Smaug talking to Bilbo and gaining insights into Lake Town, where Bilbo was from, etc.
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Yes in someway I think it could be canonical as you like to say, dkblue ;)
In fact, not so long ago I had a similar idea for Sauron. Details apart, I report here below the idea (my very first idea in the forum, is like 6-7 month ago :D), just for the sake of the discussion:
--- Zitat von: AulëTheSmith am 2. Mai 2017, 13:20 ---Dark Manipulation (the name of ability can change, in fact i'm not totally satisfied about it)(requires level 10) : The Dark Lord concentrates the power of the ring to torture and finally control the mind of an enemy hero. The selected enemy hero can suffer 3 possible effect:
1)The enemy hero is not able to resist before the mighty power of a Maiar. He totally lose his mind and finally Sauron is able to control him and use him for his purposes. The enemy hero is temporary convert on your side and filled with a new strenght: he has +50% attack. However, due to the corruption of his mind, he cannot use abilities.
2) The mind of the enemy hero is tortured and Sauron force him to reveal all his plans and secrets: for a long time ALL of the enemy heros share their sight with you and they are 25% slower.
3) The enemy hero free himself from the dark vice of Sauron but he's demoralized and outworn: he has -25% of attack and defence for a short time.
The ability cannot be activated together with "Dark Will" . The three effect are in decreasing order of power and are random. However i thinked about an inverse proportion between level of the hero and probability to suffer a more powerful effect: the most the hero is experienced, the most will be able to resist. In this way the first effect is more probable from level from 1 to 3, the second from 3 to 6, the last one from 6 to 10. Of course sounds a bit complicated but fitting in my opinion. I don't know about possible technical problems regarding this i'm not an expert [ugly].
Of course you have to focuse your attention to the general idea because details and parameters can be changed. I need your opinion to know if it's a good and fitting idea and a valid substitution of Tol-In-Gaurhoth. (REMEMBER: only for the ring form xD)
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It is quite more complex idea anyway [ugly]. However, I cuold recycle it and use it as a sort of inspiration for a better conceiving of hypnotic gaze
Walküre:
We really should endeavour and try to find a decent solution that complies both to the uniqueness standards of the game and to a level-10 feature. Mirroring other characters' abilities would be of no use for the purpose. The concept itself of controlling enemy heroes is very much suitable for the case and I thus believe we ought to stick to the path we have set ourselves on. For the sake of that crucial lore reference to the First Age. I would therefore insist on such an effect, as long as it is confined within clear boundaries.
I like your past proposal, Aulë. It's worth being recycled, methinks. The concept leaves some margin for the victim to withstand the gaze of the dragon, proving enough resistant and resilient to pass such test, if we may say so. It interests me, as a theme. Clearly, on the other hand, it is imperative that Ring-heroes be excluded from the equation for the aforementioned reasons.
Except for the technical feasibility of the general idea, about which we are surely in need of clarifications from the developers, I think we are in the right direction. We needn't come up with different things :)
AulëTheSmith:
--- Zitat von: Walküre am 19. Nov 2017, 15:20 ---We really should endeavour and try to find a decent solution that complies both to the uniqueness standards of the game and to a level-10 feature. Mirroring other characters' abilities would be of no use for the purpose. The concept itself of controlling enemy heroes is very much suitable for the case and I thus believe we ought to stick to the path we have set ourselves on. For the sake of that crucial lore reference to the First Age. I would therefore insist on such an effect, as long as it is confined within clear boundaries.
I like your past proposal, Aulë. It's worth being recycled, methinks. The concept leaves some margin for the victim to withstand the gaze of the dragon, proving enough resistant and resilient to pass such test, if we may say so. It interests me, as a theme. Clearly, on the other hand, it is imperative that Ring-heroes be excluded from the equation for the aforementioned reasons.
Except for the technical feasibility of the general idea, about which we are surely in need of clarifications from the developers, I think we are in the right direction. We needn't come up with different things :)
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Exactly, Walküre. The mirroring of another just existing character's ability is exactly what I want to avoid. Both in the name of uniqueness and for the importance that Smaug plays. He deserves something unique.
I agree about ring heroes. Also for me is not a problem excluding them. Both because of lore reasons and also because in multiplayer matches usually the ring is excluded, so the problem ceases to exist in that case. Edain 4 is developed for multiplayer mainly.
About technicalities, I don't know the bfme code but I understand a bit, being an engineer, how algorithms Works. And seeing how some of the feature just present in game works, I would dare to say bfme code should contain the necessary commands for our purpose.
What I mean is random variables and some if condition is what a similar ability requires. However I cannot go in details because I'm not sure how much I can compare bfme code with others, given that I don't know it [ugly]. I leave it in the hands of developers.
I'll proceed in developing more hypnotic gaze, including a reshaped version of "Dark Manipulation" ;)
dkbluewizard:
For several reasons I am against Smaug from taking over an enemy hero!
1. If you exclude Ring Heroes, then you exclude Theoden...yeah that is totally canonical.
2. Smaug NEVER took over an enemy hero in the books. If he could do that he would have hypnotized Thror into just migrating to Ered Luin and have the Dwarfs leave Erebor's treasure to him.
3. The ability listed by you Aule for Sauron is perfect for the Dark Lord--canonical too, I would continue to run with that for him, but not Smaug. This is totally out of place for his character.
4. If you are choosing to stay with the hypnotic gaze Aule, then have it lower something on heroes, ie armor, ability timers, etc. I just don't see Smaug dominating heroes on the battlefield, it is totally uncanonical. I mean even Glaurung didn't take over Turin or Nienor (which is the bases from which you guys are drawing this ability). Glaurung only destroyed Nienor's memory and froze/transfixed Turin in place during the Sack of Nargathrond. NO WHERE does it ever say Glaurung took over the minds of others!
So with all of these in mind, if you are wanting to keep hypnotic gaze, then it has to be some type of inhibiting ability.
AulëTheSmith:
--- Zitat von: dkbluewizard am 19. Nov 2017, 15:58 ---1. If you exclude Ring Heroes, then you exclude Theoden...yeah that is totally canonical.
2. Smaug NEVER took over an enemy hero in the books. If he could do that he would have hypnotized Thror into just migrating to Ered Luin and have the Dwarfs leave Erebor's treasure to him.
3. The ability listed by you Aule for Sauron is perfect for the Dark Lord--canonical too, I would continue to run with that for him, but not Smaug. This is totally out of place for his character.
4. If you are choosing to stay with the hypnotic gaze Aule, then have it lower something on heroes, ie armor, ability timers, etc. I just don't see Smaug dominating heroes on the battlefield, it is totally uncanonical. I mean even Glaurung didn't take over Turin or Nienor (which is the bases from which you guys are drawing this ability). Glaurung only destroyed Nienor's memory and froze/transfixed Turin in place during the Sack of Nargathrond. NO WHERE does it ever say Glaurung took over the minds of others!
So with all of these in mind, if you are wanting to keep hypnotic gaze, then it has to be some type of inhibiting ability.
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1. I don't get why Theoden is related with ring issues. You can use Theoden the Glorious King simply unlocking the new 4pp central spell developed by the team. Theoden the king is not bound to the One ring.
For the rest I'm not so deeply informed regarding lore on this matter, I prefer to leave the word to more expert forum members :) but I think, anyway, that is not so out of place as you said.
If you make the ability like you said as inhibiting spell, that inevitably we fall again in some repetion, loosing uniqueness. That's my view ;)
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