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Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities

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AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Walküre am 23. Jan 2018, 15:09 ---Due to the own proposal getting more than 15 votes of approval, as it used to be customary in the past, I shall hereafter include it among the other major concepts of our forum, worthy of considerable note. I'm glad that another proposal joins the family of the Fantastic Four, as I call them. Nevertheless, I hope that what is to be will in fact be well-boding for the purpose of our concerted effort :)

May I also thank all of those who have contributed greatly for the cause and made sure that a really fruitful debate was possible in the politest terms; and I would stress the latter, lest nothing good could result from all of this. It will obviously be possible to garner additional support or negative feedback. The thread will remain open to all.

--- Ende Zitat ---

And i say that it's an honor for me Walküre!  :) You used the right words, i heartly thank as well everyone involved to the discussion  :)  we'll keep on improving what is to be improved of this concept, along with collecting positive/negative votes.
So once again i invite everyone to express his vote about concept's core and forward his/her opinion about what is to be developed or changed in terms of details. I'm constantly thinking about the works i've started, and the my prime goal is making every concept fruitful for the community  :)

Garlodur:
Aulë, I did some more thinking on this concept and especially how to incorporate it with the central spell.

I differ a bit in your interpretation of the Dragon Lair, but please bear with me. I am only trying to explore different directions!

Untamed Allegiance

I want to introduce a different interpretation of the Central Spell that gives more importance to all creatures that Misty Mountains employ. I believe that of all factions Misty Mountains are most suited to using many different monsters to strengthen the ranks of Orcs. If we don't move this focus away from Orcs we risk Misty Mountains being another spam faction like Mordor is. Of course I am simplifying here. There is a major difference between the two factions: where Mordor employs many different types of Orcs and Uruks and other infantry forces with only a small amount of monsters and scary creatures (Trolls and Fell Beasts), I think Misty Mountains should provide a very different play style if they utilised monsters to a more comprehensive extent, literally fulfilling every task Orcs are not capable of.

This focus builds on Orcs not being the most intelligent and foreseeing creatures, but rather craftier, impatient and lacking a full overview of strategy and long-term planning. This means that whenever the moment arises that an Orc Captain does not find a way out of a situation, they refer to brute and immediate force to throw unto the enemy's forces and castles.

On this premise I want to reintroduce the Untamed Allegiance spell, this time as the Central Spell. I believe that a little less attention should be paid to Smaug on his own, and more to all monsters that make up the faction's pure strength. Very different from the Vanilla and 3.8 interpretations of this spell, I have interpreted this as a passive upgrade of all settlement and outpost build plots that build lairs.

Before expanding on Smaug's role within all this I'll share my thoughts on the other lairs.


* Warg/Wolf Lair (settlement):
Similar to Angmar's Wolf Den a small defensive point is built (perhaps producing few resources) surrounded by a few Warg/Wolf creeps. Before upgrading however it does not have the ability to recruit units. When the central spell is bought, the Lair recruits Wargs with a specialty as anti-cavalry.

* Settlement Troll Cave (settlement):
A simple Troll Lair with creeps that produces few resources and recruits Cave Trolls as they are currently known, useful for quick assaults on enemy buildings (performing the battering ram function). With Untamed Allegiance bought these Trolls can receive a weapon upgrade improving melee combat against units (mace/club), buildings (hammer), or cavalry/heroes (spear). Of course it also recruits the infamous Bill, Bert and Tom.

* Giant Cave/Hideout (outpost):
The Giants remain in this faction as long range siege weapons with high defensive capability. The upgrade unlocks a defensive boost to the Giants, making them more resistant to arrows and ranged siege. The Hideout itself provides a defensive leadership yet unspecified. I feel it should reflect Gandalf's thoughts in The Hobbit crossing the mountain passes, as he considered taking refuge in a Giant cave.

* Dragon Lair (outpost):
Initially simple creep lair defended by Fire Drakes producing resources. It recruits Fire Drakes and Cold Drakes, in flightless form. It allows Smaug to be summoned very temporarily by paying tribute, as well as providing a step-wise upgrade system to unlock Smaug's abilities. When the central spell is bought, the Lair is upgraded to contain the Treasure of Smaug, providing a 'leadership', unlocking Drakes to be upgraded into Winged Dragons and Smaug's permanent recruitment.

The Dragon Lair will be the most complex building Misty Mountains can have on external build plots, because Dragons provide the most menacing boost to their arsenal. The recruitable units offer specialised options for attacking enemies that few other factions have: Fire Drakes breath fire on their enemies dealing high damage over a wide area, and Cold Drakes have razor-sharp claws that cut through enemy armour but do not breath fire. Summoning Smaug is a powerful option to break enemy lines or initiate a siege by wiping out the enemy army. His abilities are unlocked by paying tribute and filling his den with more gold and other spoils. With the central spell bought, the Dragon Lair improves in more aspects than the other external plots, having been chosen as Smaug's own. He can be permanently recruited and levels like other heroes, but his abilities are still locked behind the tribute because of the massive power behind them. The leadership around the Dragon Lair should represent the protective aspect of dragons over their treasures, increasing their armour and damage. Upgrading Drakes into Winged Dragons means they are turned into Elite Monsters with the abilities to land/fly and Breath Fire/Iron Claws.

Ring Smaug:
When Smaug is given the Ring I believe it should feel more impactful to the player giving the mightiest dragon of the Third Age an artifact made to control the whole of Middle-Earth. The Treasure inside the Dragon Lairs no longer suffices for Smaug. Instead he drains his power from the player's stockpile of resources: the less goes unspent the deadlier his fury becomes. The Ring also unlocks all abilities regardless of tributes or level. The one downside is that the Ring also weighs him down until the Terrible turns slack and slow, furious in the defense of his gold and drawn to preserve what he has gained. In this manner Smaug does not care for friends or allies, as long as they can provide him with enough gold to sate his appetite, and appoint an imagined enemy that wants to take it from him.

Wow, this was more writing than I expected. As always, I hope to have given a clear elaboration of my ideas.

Best,
Garlodur

AulëTheSmith:
Hi Garlodur, first of all i'm sorry for late answer, i just had not sufficient time for a proper answer :)
I write in total sincerity: your ideas are well explained, and i like them in the whole  ;) I only have few doubts that i'll adress further on in this post  ;)

 I didn't come up with the iconic "Untamed Allagiance" during the creation of the concept, but i think that's a good idea!! "Spoils of the infesting creatures" it is generic too,  it's more specific given that it adresses only one of the aspect of the monsters swarm. i remember someone during the discussion who takes into account the fact that "Spoils of the wild creatures" could be redundand with a possible reintroduction of the classical "Scavenger" passive spell, speaking in terms of names and which things they rapresent.
I think the classic spell's name could be a good replacement. I'd be glad to hear the opinion of the community, but i'm quite conviced to change it in favour of yours  :)
However,as a last remark about the matter, Smaug among all is the one who most rapresents this aspect, being him the most untamable of the monsters. All of the other monsters are still in someway manipulable, despite in a wilder sense with respect to other factions. But this is not so true for Smaug and his hosts of drakes. Dragons are usually very intelligent and so aware of what they can do with their great power. This aspect make them more undependent as well as untamed, precisely  ;)
 Even in the case you refill his cave with gold, Smaug would be a "detached" ally, who answers to no one but himself ;) Needless to say, as we all know it is the most terrible and destructive monsters. So i would stay with the current palantir picture or a similar one which depicts him in a significant way :)

As for the influence on the other structures, i share your vision as i just said some posts ago  :) The central power should unlock "elite" equipment for monsters as well as unlocking terrible new dragons :) I will instert them as a first example quoting you too, and i'm sure when MM will be near we will discuss more about the matter. I saw there are many ideas and visions in the thread MM speculations and questions  ;)

Coming again to the very protagonist of the thread: the ring form and tribute system. If i understood well would you like to make him unlocking abilities by paying tributes. I saw something like that in Hero Submod videos, and it seems quite fitting with the character, even though i would make it more simple. The old one it was too complicated. And, what about the level when you summon him in his temporary form? Should he get limited stats, but with the liberty to unlock all the abilities even though the central spell is not unlocked yet? Admitted that it was in your idea to keep the temporary summon. I'm sorry it is just to better understand your view about the matter, maybe i lost something during reading  :D

Regarding the ring form: it is similar to my idea, from the moment Smaug wears the ring, both because of grediness and because of the Golden armor, he will become slower and uncontrollable. But if you want Smaug's power inverse proportional to your stockpile, then maybe it could not be so effective given that it is a late game hero, and in late game usually you have a lot of resources? Ok let's say in this way the player is encouraged to squander his great wealth in order to reinforce Smaug  [ugly].

Anyway, let me know what do you think in details  :)

Walküre:
I agree with the core reasoning of Aulë and I add this: taking into account the new role of central spells and their pivotal meaning (they're also referred to as faction spells not without a reason), I see Smaug as the most fitting candidate for our purpose. He towers in potency over all other beasts and simply refuses to swear allegiance to anyone, unless it is for his own advantage; let alone being forced into an alliance by means of intimidation or other tricks. Moreover, although the future spells of the Misty Mountains are still wrapped in mystery, if I were to reintroduce Untamed Allegiance in the spellbook, I would leave the spell as a basic feature (first or second tier) and unaltered, being it already unique and quite iconic.

So, the kernel is that I would nonetheless have Smaug be at the centre of things. We have already gone through the proper quality of the character and his independent trait. I think such implementation would do him justice.

Besides, set aside details and alternatives, do you feel like agreeing with the general structure of the proposal, Garlodur? :)

AulëTheSmith:

--- Zitat von: Walküre am  3. Feb 2018, 16:20 ---I agree with the core reasoning of Aulë and I add this: taking into account the new role of central spells and their pivotal meaning (they're also referred to as faction spells not without a reason), I see Smaug as the most fitting candidate for our purpose. He towers in potency over all other beasts and simply refuses to swear allegiance to anyone, unless it is for his own advantage; let alone being forced into an alliance by means of intimidation or other tricks. Moreover, although the future spells of the Misty Mountains are still wrapped in mystery, if I were to reintroduce Untamed Allegiance in the spellbook, I would leave the spell as a basic feature (first or second tier) and unaltered, being it already unique and quite iconic.

So, the kernel is that I would nonetheless have Smaug be at the centre of things. We have already gone through the proper quality of the character and his independent trait. I think such implementation would do him justice.

Besides, set aside details and alternatives, do you feel like agreeing with the general structure of the proposal, Garlodur? :)

--- Ende Zitat ---

Indeed Smaug should be a central figure. Dragons are undoubtedly the elite monsters of MM : powerful, proud and independent creatures; with the unique edge to be too much greedy ;)
By the way, I get the uniqueness you are taking about, given that the original spell allowso you to take control of wild caves, underlining in this way what will the most relevant characteristic of the faction: unpredictability. However, I found the name also proper for our central spell because it is general and involves a wider range of creatures with respect tI my original "spoils of infesting creatures". Which general too but referred to a specific aspect, that could have a redundant meaning with "plunderer.
So, to conclude, what do you propose,  kind Walküre, as an alternative name? I would keep the nature of the spell unaltered, which involves upgrades for every monsters, with smaug as central palantir as mentioned before for many reasons. And also, what do you think about ring effects on our great dragon?
I invite Garlodur too to express his vote ;)

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