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Autor Thema: Smaug, the Chiefest and Greatest of Calamities  (Gelesen 38087 mal)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #45 am: 28. Okt 2017, 11:25 »

Well, if the Dragon Lair is destroyed then Smaug will not be able to pick up the ring, it's as easy as that :)


That is exactly the constrain i was thinking about  :) :). The very problem that make me reflect  a lot is: how to justify/implement properly this limitation? look at my solution and then we will discuss if it is worth it for you (all of you guys, also the ones who are just in favour). I don't guarantee you guys that is the perfect one, but it is the best i found so far:

MY SOLUTION


dkbluewizard

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #46 am: 29. Okt 2017, 04:03 »
I see that my faith was not misplaced. I love it Aule, this sounds perfect and should be incorporated ASAP! I think it being part of his treasure and the scenario if he loses it is canonical. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT.

I look forward to all other ideas you come up with, as I know that your love for Tolkien's work is only matched probably by the fanaticism of a few Tolkienists. Great job buddy!
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

esparado87

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #47 am: 3. Nov 2017, 15:12 »
Yep, if this can be coded without to much stress, then go for it ;)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #48 am: 3. Nov 2017, 17:02 »
Yep, if this can be coded without to much stress, then go for it ;)

I hope it is in someway possible  ;) I shall put your name in the green list for now, and less than other ring-related problems will come out, I count you as in favour about the general concept and ideas :)

I see that my faith was not misplaced. I love it Aule, this sounds perfect and should be incorporated ASAP! I think it being part of his treasure and the scenario if he loses it is canonical. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT.

I look forward to all other ideas you come up with, as I know that your love for Tolkien's work is only matched probably by the fanaticism of a few Tolkienists. Great job buddy!

Thank you for your words, bluewizard  ;)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #49 am: 17. Nov 2017, 23:16 »
Hello fans of the Great Smaug  xD
Here some small additions to the main concept:

- solution about the ring issue discussed recently.
- more armor for smaug when he used "My Claws are Spears".
- New characterization for "Hypnotic Gaze".

You can go to the main page clicking on the link in my signature or simply going to page 1.  I'm looking forward your feedback as always  ;)

Walküre

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #50 am: 18. Nov 2017, 23:20 »
It's really good that the proposal has been polished further. I daresay, you are right to focus on the lore of the fire-breathing Worms of the Elder Days and the new effect of Hypnotic Gaze seems quite fair to me, being an accurate representation of what those malicious eyes exactly did (taking control of the victims and stir folly within them). I'm partially sceptical about an aspect, though. A risk that the context entails.

What worries me, gentle Aulë, is the prospect of one's mightiest hero to be simply used and toyed with as a mere puppet of Smaug. Will there be a limit to the ability? A threshold which one cannot go beyond? Ring-heroes of the likes of Galadriel, Gandalf or Elrond ought to be counted out from the list of possible targets of this feature. What do you think about it? Is my concern legitimate?

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #51 am: 19. Nov 2017, 00:39 »
It's really good that the proposal has been polished further. I daresay, you are right to focus on the lore of the fire-breathing Worms of the Elder Days and the new effect of Hypnotic Gaze seems quite fair to me, being an accurate representation of what those malicious eyes exactly did (taking control of the victims and stir folly within them). I'm partially sceptical about an aspect, though. A risk that the context entails.

What worries me, gentle Aulë, is the prospect of one's mightiest hero to be simply used and toyed with as a mere puppet of Smaug. Will there be a limit to the ability? A threshold which one cannot go beyond? Ring-heroes of the likes of Galadriel, Gandalf or Elrond ought to be counted out from the list of possible targets of this feature. What do you think about it? Is my concern legitimate?

I sincerely say you, wise Walküre, that you are not at all out of place, because the first conceiving of my ability was exactly what you said. Maybe it would be better if I specify this in the concept  [ugly]. In fact, the complete idea was:

- excluding the ring heroes, because the ring itself has just a very powerful influence on the bearers, such that no other spell or magic of any type can control them.
And yes, maybe some heroes also in non-ring form are not so easy to control, we can discuss about that too.

-another idea, but that one I intentionally did not write because i deem it as a complication for the concept, is the following: when the selected hero is converted, is of course confused because under an hypnotic spell, so that he cannot use his ability: any cool down time of the skills is reset.
Let me know what do you think  ;)

dkbluewizard

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #52 am: 19. Nov 2017, 05:03 »
I think Smaug's hypnotic gaze should more stun the heroes from moving. I mean, totally dominating them and controlling them is out of the question as Walkure pointed out. I feel the concept is perfect, but I feel that the hypnotic gaze should possible just stop characters from moving/attacking for a couple of seconds. Put them in a daze or something...
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #53 am: 19. Nov 2017, 09:38 »
I think Smaug's hypnotic gaze should more stun the heroes from moving. I mean, totally dominating them and controlling them is out of the question as Walkure pointed out. I feel the concept is perfect, but I feel that the hypnotic gaze should possible just stop characters from moving/attacking for a couple of seconds. Put them in a daze or something...

I thought about that also, bluewizard (it was written in the previous description before I came with the final idea). The fact is that stunning or reducing attack wouldn't be a unique feature, because just other heroes have this skill. Lurtz for example can cripple the enemies for few seconds, but it is a level 1 ability. Here we are talking level 10. So another point is to find something that is not only unique, but also is worth a level 10.
So guys if any of you find something that both is unique and worth an high level, then I'm glad to discuss and eventually modify/change the effect of Hypnotic Gaze  ;)
Otherwise, the only way I see is to introduce some more constrains as Walküre suggested  :)

P.s: another possibility is that one of the Edain team member could unveil us what they meant with hypnotic gaze, this also could make things easier  :D :D
« Letzte Änderung: 19. Nov 2017, 09:48 von AulëTheSmith »

dkbluewizard

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #54 am: 19. Nov 2017, 14:22 »
Well based on Edain, I think the Hypnotic gaze was just going to act like Saruman's Wormtongue ability. But like you said, that isn't very unique. I mean, I guess you could have it "cripple" like Lurtz's ability, but as the hero survives they reveal what they know about their faction. As the Goblin Player, you can see the enemies resources, powers, and basically everything about the faction.

This is canonical because it represents Smaug talking to Bilbo and gaining insights into Lake Town, where Bilbo was from, etc.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #55 am: 19. Nov 2017, 14:53 »
Well based on Edain, I think the Hypnotic gaze was just going to act like Saruman's Wormtongue ability. But like you said, that isn't very unique. I mean, I guess you could have it "cripple" like Lurtz's ability, but as the hero survives they reveal what they know about their faction. As the Goblin Player, you can see the enemies resources, powers, and basically everything about the faction.

This is canonical because it represents Smaug talking to Bilbo and gaining insights into Lake Town, where Bilbo was from, etc.

Yes in someway I think it could be canonical as you like to say, dkblue  ;)
In fact, not so long ago I had a similar idea for Sauron. Details apart, I report here below the idea (my very first idea in the forum, is like 6-7 month ago  :D), just for the sake of the discussion:

Dark Manipulation (the name of ability can change, in fact i'm not totally satisfied about it)(requires level 10) : The Dark Lord concentrates the power of the ring to torture and finally control the mind of an enemy hero. The selected enemy hero can suffer 3 possible effect:

1)The enemy hero is not able to resist before the mighty power of a Maiar. He totally lose his mind and finally Sauron is able to control him and use him for his purposes. The enemy hero is temporary convert on your side and filled with a new strenght: he has +50% attack. However, due to the corruption of his mind, he cannot use abilities.

2) The mind of the enemy hero is tortured and Sauron force him to reveal all his plans and secrets: for a long time ALL of the enemy heros share their sight with you and they are 25% slower.

3) The enemy hero free himself from the dark vice of Sauron but he's demoralized and outworn: he has -25% of attack and defence for a short time.

The ability cannot be activated together with "Dark Will" . The three effect are in decreasing order of power and are random. However i thinked about an inverse proportion between level of the hero and probability to suffer a more powerful effect: the most the hero is experienced, the most will be able to resist. In this way the first effect is more probable from level from 1 to 3, the second from 3 to 6, the last one from 6 to 10. Of course sounds a bit complicated but fitting in my opinion. I don't know about possible technical problems regarding this i'm not an expert  [ugly].
Of course you have to focuse your attention to the general idea because details and parameters can be changed. I need your opinion to know if it's a good and fitting idea and a valid substitution of Tol-In-Gaurhoth. (REMEMBER: only for the ring form  xD)

It is quite more complex idea anyway  [ugly]. However, I cuold recycle it and use it as a sort of inspiration for a better conceiving of  hypnotic gaze

Walküre

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #56 am: 19. Nov 2017, 15:20 »
We really should endeavour and try to find a decent solution that complies both to the uniqueness standards of the game and to a level-10 feature. Mirroring other characters' abilities would be of no use for the purpose. The concept itself of controlling enemy heroes is very much suitable for the case and I thus believe we ought to stick to the path we have set ourselves on. For the sake of that crucial lore reference to the First Age. I would therefore insist on such an effect, as long as it is confined within clear boundaries.

I like your past proposal, Aulë. It's worth being recycled, methinks. The concept leaves some margin for the victim to withstand the gaze of the dragon, proving enough resistant and resilient to pass such test, if we may say so. It interests me, as a theme. Clearly, on the other hand, it is imperative that Ring-heroes be excluded from the equation for the aforementioned reasons.

Except for the technical feasibility of the general idea, about which we are surely in need of clarifications from the developers, I think we are in the right direction. We needn't come up with different things :)

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #57 am: 19. Nov 2017, 15:50 »
We really should endeavour and try to find a decent solution that complies both to the uniqueness standards of the game and to a level-10 feature. Mirroring other characters' abilities would be of no use for the purpose. The concept itself of controlling enemy heroes is very much suitable for the case and I thus believe we ought to stick to the path we have set ourselves on. For the sake of that crucial lore reference to the First Age. I would therefore insist on such an effect, as long as it is confined within clear boundaries.

I like your past proposal, Aulë. It's worth being recycled, methinks. The concept leaves some margin for the victim to withstand the gaze of the dragon, proving enough resistant and resilient to pass such test, if we may say so. It interests me, as a theme. Clearly, on the other hand, it is imperative that Ring-heroes be excluded from the equation for the aforementioned reasons.

Except for the technical feasibility of the general idea, about which we are surely in need of clarifications from the developers, I think we are in the right direction. We needn't come up with different things :)

Exactly, Walküre. The mirroring of another just existing character's ability is exactly what I want to avoid. Both in the name of uniqueness and for the importance that Smaug plays. He deserves something unique.
I agree about ring heroes. Also for me is not a problem excluding them. Both because of lore reasons and also because in multiplayer matches usually the ring is excluded, so the problem ceases to exist in that case. Edain 4 is developed for multiplayer mainly.

 About technicalities, I don't know the bfme code but I understand a bit, being an engineer, how algorithms Works. And seeing how some of the feature just present in game works, I would dare to say bfme code should contain the necessary commands for our purpose.
What I mean is random variables and some if condition is what a similar ability requires. However I cannot go in details because I'm not sure how much I can compare bfme code with others, given that I don't know it  [ugly]. I leave it in the hands of developers.

I'll proceed in developing more hypnotic gaze, including a reshaped version of "Dark Manipulation" ;)



dkbluewizard

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #58 am: 19. Nov 2017, 15:58 »
For several reasons I am against Smaug from taking over an enemy hero!

1. If you exclude Ring Heroes, then you exclude Theoden...yeah that is totally canonical.

2. Smaug NEVER took over an enemy hero in the books. If he could do that he would have hypnotized Thror into just migrating to Ered Luin and have the Dwarfs leave Erebor's treasure to him.

3. The ability listed by you Aule for Sauron is perfect for the Dark Lord--canonical too, I would continue to run with that for him, but not Smaug. This is totally out of place for his character.

4. If you are choosing to stay with the hypnotic gaze Aule, then have it lower something on heroes, ie armor, ability timers, etc. I just don't see Smaug dominating heroes on the battlefield, it is totally uncanonical. I mean even Glaurung didn't take over Turin or Nienor (which is the bases from which you guys are drawing this ability). Glaurung only destroyed Nienor's memory and froze/transfixed Turin in place during the Sack of Nargathrond. NO WHERE does it ever say Glaurung took over the minds of others!

So with all of these in mind, if you are wanting to keep hypnotic gaze, then it has to be some type of inhibiting ability.
Outside of Lord of the Rings, I am pretty sure Vengeance of Valdorian & Leoj's Wrath are the best novels I have read.

AulëTheSmith

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Re: Smaug, the Cheapest and Greatest of Calamities
« Antwort #59 am: 19. Nov 2017, 17:39 »
1. If you exclude Ring Heroes, then you exclude Theoden...yeah that is totally canonical.

2. Smaug NEVER took over an enemy hero in the books. If he could do that he would have hypnotized Thror into just migrating to Ered Luin and have the Dwarfs leave Erebor's treasure to him.

3. The ability listed by you Aule for Sauron is perfect for the Dark Lord--canonical too, I would continue to run with that for him, but not Smaug. This is totally out of place for his character.

4. If you are choosing to stay with the hypnotic gaze Aule, then have it lower something on heroes, ie armor, ability timers, etc. I just don't see Smaug dominating heroes on the battlefield, it is totally uncanonical. I mean even Glaurung didn't take over Turin or Nienor (which is the bases from which you guys are drawing this ability). Glaurung only destroyed Nienor's memory and froze/transfixed Turin in place during the Sack of Nargathrond. NO WHERE does it ever say Glaurung took over the minds of others!

So with all of these in mind, if you are wanting to keep hypnotic gaze, then it has to be some type of inhibiting ability.

1. I don't get why Theoden is related with ring issues. You can use Theoden the Glorious King simply unlocking the new 4pp central spell developed by the team. Theoden the king is not bound to the One ring.

For the rest I'm not so deeply informed regarding lore on this matter, I prefer to leave the word to more expert forum members  :) but I think, anyway, that is not so out of place as you said.
If you make the ability like you said as inhibiting spell, that inevitably we fall again in some repetion, loosing uniqueness. That's my view  ;)