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Autor Thema: Elladan and Elrohir  (Gelesen 401 mal)

sr_dark

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Elladan and Elrohir
« am: 29. Apr 2018, 17:21 »
Recently I've heard people complaining of Elladan and Elrohir being to separate persons but yet, the same hero, so they propose they should be different heroes.
However, given how similar they are in EVERY way, I believe their hero abilities are fitting for both and it wouldn't make much sense to split them.

Nonetheless, I do think that as they are different people and yet joined in one hero, it's rather odd to have two persons, doing different animations when attacking, with different timing and yet, hitting 1 enemy instead of 2.

So to fix this situation and the disadvantages that come from not having them separate like say Orophin and Rumil (that being 2 separate heroes can hit 2 separate targets); the only logical step lays in making Elladan and Elrohir hit twice, once per animation.

What do you guys think? :)

OakenShield224

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Re: Elladan and Elrohir
« Antwort #1 am: 29. Apr 2018, 17:28 »
It's an interesting idea. The problem is that you're using your resources to get one hero that is then able to essentially do double the damage. They'd be able to completely destroy enemy heroes (I know this is their current role, but by making them hit twice, it would be a lot stronger). You'd then have to balance this by massively reducing their damage or making them a lot more expensive (which isn't always the best solution).

sr_dark

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Re: Elladan and Elrohir
« Antwort #2 am: 29. Apr 2018, 18:05 »
You are right and as you said it could be solved by reducing the amount of damage per hit, but alternatively by giving them a small AOE to hit 2 enemies

Or a ultimately making them have the current attack for singles targets and the multiple attack (each animation hit actually a hit) for multiple targets; being also different to aoe.

Gnomi

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Re: Elladan and Elrohir
« Antwort #3 am: 29. Apr 2018, 18:50 »
Zitat
So to fix this situation and the disadvantages that come from not having them separate like say Orophin and Rumil (that being 2 separate heroes can hit 2 separate targets); the only logical step lays in making Elladan and Elrohir hit twice, once per animation.
In the history of the sons of Elrond, we had multiple different ways of showing exactly what you want.


What are the problems?

 They are basically one unit, therefore it is basically one animation and also only one attack. It can't be coded as "two different attacks and tehrefore two different weapons".^^
Therefore it is technically not possible that both of them attack on their own (so they can't target two different units on their own). The only possibility for that would be making them a bataillon of two, but then tehre would be multiple problems:
 - you can't "revive" them without having some problems. Of course you could use the system we used in earlier versions, but that's not as smooth as a normal system AND would need a lot of upgrades, which would cause the save-game-bug.
 - what happens if one of them dies? Reviving would be REALLY strong and not reviving would cause players to kill their own hero to get both again. (very bad game design imo)


What we did:

As said we had multiple solutions for that:
 - Aoe damage to simulate multiple attacks
 - faster attackspeed ("more attacks, as they are two persons"
 - more damage, as both of them attack the same unit at once.

I think 99% of our users don't know that any of these things were ingame, which is why we deleted all of them again. :P AoE also caused a ton more problems. You can't just say "make it so small that it hits only 2 units.".
Either it was so small that noone noticed it and it killed 2 guys every 5-6 autoattacks or (if you just make it about 1-2 fet larger), you would destroy every spam faction, as you could abuse it to kill 5 or more orcs per hit. AoE sadly doesn't work as "hit x amount of units."

But you could see the current version as "two champions for 800 ressources fight together and attack the same poor guy."
Sadly we can't do everything we'ld want, as there are many technical restrictions. :/

If it was possible, we would also cut their damage in half, such that the damage would be still the same, but only visually more. The reason is quite simple - the damage and therefor their strength would be far too high for their costs.^^

You see that we already tried some possibilities (even your ideas were already in the game at some point, as far as they were possible), but none of them worked. Sadly there is a reason, why we currently don't have something like that integrated.
« Letzte Änderung: 29. Apr 2018, 18:57 von Gnomi »

sr_dark

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Re: Elladan and Elrohir
« Antwort #4 am: 27. Mai 2018, 18:01 »
I understand the points you present; however, I do think that not giving them AOE to emulate their role because ''it could be exploited'', is purely situational and extraordinary  ;moreover, it seems like an insufficient argument for maintaining the extremely inaccurate current situation.

Not only that but all things considered, even Legolas (a single elf) can get an huge AOE with his quickly rechargeable knives ability. I believe at least something like that could be added to the twins Level 1 ability (and it also helps to make it more useful than it currently is).

Bottom line, this solution would help not only to fix the problem of having 2 heroes acting as one and without having any real bonus to it, but it also wouldnt have any detriment to Elrond's role as the de facto mass-slayer, since its not a permanent AOE.
« Letzte Änderung: 27. Mai 2018, 18:06 von sr_dark »