[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] General Suggestions

Wait a second: Catapults?

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Goodfella:
Hi,

I’d like to address a significant imbalance that may have been previously overlooked:

The Imbalance:

Mobile catapults are capable of shooting, then instantly moving, whereas wall-catapults are not.

The Problem:

In practice this means mobile catapults can shoot and 100% hit stationary wall-catapults AND can dodge any incoming retaliation shots.

The only way in which a wall catapult can hit a ‘well-microed’ mobile catapult is to turn off auto-fire, then predict where the catapult would be and then bombard that area. Clearly this is a difficult task, especially in the heat of battle with other areas to defend. Meanwhile, the attacking player need only right click on the wall catapult.

This huge imbalance in micro-difficulty inevitably results in the attacker winning the catapult battle. Especially when you consider the fact that the attacker will have more catapults: They have more money to afford more upgraded catapults – exacerbated by the hard-limit on wall-catapult build spots.

I believe this is one of the reasons why catapult battles were/are so prevalent in edain sieging. The attacker is highly rewarded! Destroy the enemy catapult – removing their only weak defence – then destroy the walls/ base buildings with your catapults.

A Solution?

I’d recommend that mobile catapults have a stance toggle (like mounted vs unmounted toggle for heroes) in which one stance allows them to move but not shoot and the other to shoot but not move. A transitionary time would have to be included between stances: a kind of ‘set-up time’ (again, like mounted vs unmounted toggle).

Mobile catapults would therefore retain an advantage but would not be near-invulnerable to their stationary counterpart.

Balance of power:

I’d also recommend that wall-catapults be significantly more powerful than mobile catapults, to address the outnumbering issue.

Of course, this would be a fine balance, as we wouldn’t want the balance of power to completely reverse, with wall catapults becoming invulnerable.

The Goal:

The ideal situation would be that mobile catapults alone would NOT be enough to win a siege (catapult-battling) but rather, they are one tool in the arsenal of other siege units used to defeat the enemy. So that the attacker wins the siege with multiple simultaneous threats that overwhelm the enemy – instead of winning by making 10 catas and gg.

I think the stance change would be the necessary first step (removing the micro-imbalance), followed by careful balancing (combating the outnumbering-issue).

Beyond gameplay:

If you think about it, it does make logical sense: a historical trebuchet would not be able to move 10 feet then instantly shoot a boulder then instantly mover again. Also, a more powerful wall catapult would make sense as these could be set up potentially years in advance on a real fort and huge powerful mobile trebuchets would take forever to move and set-up. Of course, historical (/ lore) accuracy is not the best route to good gameplay, but I feel like this is a nice case where logic and gameplay suggest the same solution.

Exceptions to this rule could include Ents, which I think should be able to move and shoot instantly (as it suits the unit) but should therefore be nerfed in some other way – which they kind of already are! they catch fire!

Thanks for reading let me know what you think!

P.S stronger wall-catapults could help in the ‘snowball-effect too!’

NoldorSithLordsShipwright:
Hmm, a "deploy/undeploy" function for catapults would balance out their maneuverability quite considerably.

I like this!

Halbarad:

--- Zitat von: NoldorSithLordsShipwright am  8. Aug 2018, 03:55 ---I like this!

--- Ende Zitat ---

Me too. It would also make catapults more vulnerable for flank attacks and counterattacks with troops.

Julio229:
Yeah, I agree with this. I don't know if it would work with AI, for example, but it is a good solution to the problem. My only gripe with it would be if AI was unable to use Catapults.

But overall, good idea!

Captain Jin:
Making catapults toggle into stationary (and I assume have a cooldown on that change) might also require an accuracy reduction and range increase. Which honestly sounds like it would make fights more interesting and also fit what sieges should be looking like in the next update. I like this idea a lot!

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