Spellbook of Misty Mountains

[tolgayurdal]

Smaug fills the central spell like Theoden, leader of his faction. The last spell has to be bought for his permanency according to proposal. But this topic has never confirmed by team, so there is no availability.

Canonicly Smaug is not intended to lead faction, there are other heroes capable to do that which might be Balrog through spellbook. As stated this is not reliable source for investigation.

[dkbluewizard2]

I was saying canonically speaking and going by the hypothetical timeline--Smaug would be leading the faction of the Misty Mountains like Glaurung did, not because he wants to, but because Sauron is ordering him to.

It is like Morgoth telling Glaurung or Ancalagon to go and lead his armies--I mean mostly they would be content to sit on their pile of gold.

But Gandalf always feared that Sauron was going to use Smaug in a way to really mess up the kingdoms of the north.

This is what I was saying by Smaug being the central spell--it is in a hypothetical timeline where Sauron would have ordered Smaug to lead the armies, just as Morgoth ordered Ancalagon.

This is why Smaug fits the central spell. That is all that I was saying.

[Shadowlord]

I was saying canonically speaking and going by the hypothetical timeline--Smaug would be leading the faction of the Misty Mountains like Glaurung did, not because he wants to, but because Sauron is ordering him to.

It is like Morgoth telling Glaurung or Ancalagon to go and lead his armies--I mean mostly they would be content to sit on their pile of gold.

But Gandalf always feared that Sauron was going to use Smaug in a way to really mess up the kingdoms of the north.

This is what I was saying by Smaug being the central spell--it is in a hypothetical timeline where Sauron would have ordered Smaug to lead the armies, just as Morgoth ordered Ancalagon.

This is why Smaug fits the central spell. That is all that I was saying.

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't sure before what you meant being Smaug leading the Misty Mountains, now I see where your coming from.

While I am still off the mentality that Sauron would be fine with Smaug going on a rampage on his own, and ordering Bolg to lead the armies instead. Since Smaug is a 100 armies worth of fighting power and he wouldn't need an army to back up him, but rather insure there aren't any survivors left. You do bring up a good point with your Glaurung example.

I am still not sure if the ET is truly going with this hypothetical timeline concept, I feel like if they did, they would have given Smaug a far larger role in the faction I.E Sauron and mentioned that in one of their earlier posts. Like giving him an innate ability to boost the effectiveness of buildings in the vein of the Influence of Sauron. I can be wrong.

If the spellbook was designed with this hypothetical timeline in mind, then I am fully in favor of it. But I still feel strongly that if the Spellbook didn't consider this hypothetical timeline, that Smaug's presence shouldn't be in it at all, but rather have a central power revolving around Bolg, or one of the mechanics of the Misty Mountains in general.

[tolgayurdal]

As a part of this consept, i already expressed my thoughts about Smaug before. The truth is that when ET decided to add Smaug into the faction, the balance and ring mechanic had not been clear, i think. The proposal is an only suggestion after all, its role is only reference (i avoid even given the most of numbers). Also when it comes to lead the faction, Bolg might be the rightest choise especially during prefered timeline. But it does not mean Smaug leaves, he is a force of MM, maybe the most dangerous one in the faction. It is more important that the way provided maximum efficiency in the faction afterwards.

Anyway, as long as the details comes forth, i will try to feedback almost every opinion.

Best regards.

[dkbluewizard2]

You know I am grateful for the ET and any contribution they do for the MM. I once proposed something that would have made all parties happy.

Like the Dwarfs, I proposed two factions for the Goblins (Misty Mountains and Iron Mountains)

The Misty Mountains would have had everything that they said: Trolls, Goblins from Goblin Town, Moria, Gundabad and the wild etc. But the Goblins could switch out to the Iron Mountains like the Dwarfs with Ered Luin, Iron Hills, or Erebor.

I had Smaug the leader of the Iron Mountains as the mass slayer, King's Bane (the Cold Drake that killed Fror and Dain I) as the Tank, and then I had several orc/troll like heroes.

The main difference between the two factions was the monster build. While MM could utilize Giants, Trolls, and Ogres--Iron Mountains could utilize different dragons.

I had the Balrog leading the MM faction and I had Smaug leading the IM faction.

Unfortunately nobody wanted this but I felt that this would have solved a lot of headaches and added another evil faction.

I like whatever the ET does but it outstands me that such lovers of the lore who are Tolkienists negate the most epic part of the books which is canonical.

That is to say the Balrog and Gandalf's fight. If it had not happened then Rohan and Gondor could not have been saved by Gandalf. Saruman would not have been overthrown, and the Fellowship would have been killed. The Ring would not have made it any further than Moria.

Gandalf's sacrifice is one of the most epic and beautiful things about LOTR, and this process is repeated canonically with Aragorn at the Black Gate, Boromir at Amon Hen, and Frodo at Imladis ("I will take it!").

I feel like not including the Balrog as the faction leader is a canonical mistake, but in the end no amount of stating the obvious and pointing this out makes a difference.

[Shadowlord]

I apologize if any of my past or future criticisms may have came off as hostile or condescending. @tolgayurdal I respect your proposal and the amount of thought and time you put into it, despite my different views on Smaug. However I feel that I should have expressed this before, but my fear would be by placing so much emphasis on Smaug or the Balrog, the rest of the aspects of the faction like the monsters, the unique mechanics, or even the other heroes. Will become overshadowed as a result, making the Misty Mountains feel less like a culmination of different types of orcs/goblins, monsters and the like. And instead a faction that revolves entirely around Smaug and the Balrog. Don't get me wrong, Smaug and the Balrog are cool as hell. And they are a staple of LOTR and the Hobbit in both the books and the films.

But one of the biggest appeals to me about the Misty Mountains faction is seeing some of the more obscure monsters in the Legendarium get their chance to shine on the battlefield. To me, by making Smaug and the Balrog that prominent, and putting so much attention to them, that myticisim, that concept that makes the faction special, gets lost.

Don't get me wrong, the Balrog and Smaug being faction leaders can totally work, but I would prefer to have more attention on the various monsters (I.E different types of trolls, dragons, wargs etc.) that make up the misty mountains, or heck even the unique types of orc and goblin troops from Moria, Gundabad, and Goblintown. Get the attention they deserve.

@dkbluewizard, I thought about this concept for a while, but the more I think about the intricacies of the Misty Mountains factions in the lore. More and more I think it should have a similar system to the Dwarves, where the player can choose from one of two, if not three factions. With the other two factions being able to come to their aid. Your point is very much valid.

[dkbluewizard2]

I apologize if any of my past or future criticisms may have came off as hostile or condescending. @tolgayurdal I respect your proposal and the amount of thought and time you put into it, despite my different views on Smaug. However I feel that I should have expressed this before, but my fear would be by placing so much emphasis on Smaug or the Balrog, the rest of the aspects of the faction like the monsters, the unique mechanics, or even the other heroes. Will become overshadowed as a result, making the Misty Mountains feel less like a culmination of different types of orcs/goblins, monsters and the like. And instead a faction that revolves entirely around Smaug and the Balrog. Don't get me wrong, Smaug and the Balrog are cool as hell. And they are a staple of LOTR and the Hobbit in both the books and the films.

But one of the biggest appeals to me about the Misty Mountains faction is seeing some of the more obscure monsters in the Legendarium get their chance to shine on the battlefield. To me, by making Smaug and the Balrog that prominent, and putting so much attention to them, that myticisim, that concept that makes the faction special, gets lost.

Don't get me wrong, the Balrog and Smaug being faction leaders can totally work, but I would prefer to have more attention on the various monsters (I.E different types of trolls, dragons, wargs etc.) that make up the misty mountains, or heck even the unique types of orc and goblin troops from Moria, Gundabad, and Goblintown. Get the attention they deserve.

@dkbluewizard, I thought about this concept for a while, but the more I think about the intricacies of the Misty Mountains factions in the lore. More and more I think it should have a similar system to the Dwarves, where the player can choose from one of two, if not three factions. With the other two factions being able to come to their aid. Your point is very much valid.

@ Shadowlord: Unfortunately ET doesn't want to do that. So if they were to implement stuff canonically to the Misty Mountain faction, I would want the Balrog. But since they don't want to do that, we'll have to settle with Smaug instead.

Which Smaug as a Ring hero is cool and all--it is just that, not canonical. Unfortunately.