29. Mär 2024, 07:02 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Rethinking levelling system of some heroes  (Gelesen 1323 mal)

dgsgomes

  • Pförtner von Bree
  • *
  • Beiträge: 75
  • "If by my life or death I can protect you, I will"
Rethinking levelling system of some heroes
« am: 11. Nov 2019, 23:35 »
This idea came up after I analyzed the Veterans of the Last Alliance. The fact that they reach level 20 does not make sense for 2 reasons: the first being well, as they are veterans, shouldn't they be recruited already with a higher level instead of level 1?; the second being why can the veterans reach higher levels then some other units in the game, such as Elrond, who fought alongside with them, or other elder beings, like Gandalf and Sauron? Also, I've never seen the veterans reacher even level 10 - I haven't done it myself when playing against the A.I.

So I came up with the following idea: what about making some of the oldest, wise and experienced heroes to be recruited already at a higher level (level 5)? This would show that older heroes have already gotten experience along their lives, and for that reason they would already possess some useful abilities early on. In addition to being in keeping with the lore, this suggestion would also be a way of valuing especially the most valuable heroes of some factions, such as Saruman or Galadriel.

On the other hand, to avoid having balancing issues or to change several things to make this proposal work as heroes starting with level 5 will have better proportional stats and have access to good abilities early on, 2 things would have to be changed:
1- Heroes that start at level 5 gather experience 50% slower - this way, a hero starting at level 1 teorically would reach level 10 in a similar speed (or even faster) compared to a hero starting at level 5 if not considering stats difference or starting abilities.
2- Heroes that start at level 5 will have a 4x longer recruitment time compared to now - this way, going for such a hero may prove risky in some game situations, as the money needed to recruit the hero could be invested somewhere else with a faster reward.

Here is a list of heroes in which this adjustement could be aplied (and the necessary adjustements):
- Theoden - only his healed version
- Denethor - his ability that levels him up should give him only 1 level each time it's used
- Gandalf
- Celeborn
- Galadriel
- Thranduil
- Elrond - his armor should be earned only at level 6
- Glorfindel
- Cirdan
- Araphant - his level 5 ability should be moved to level 6
- Malbeth - his ability that levels him up should give him only 1 level each time it's used
- Gloin - Erebor version
- Dain - Erebor version
- Saruman
- Karsh
- Witch King - Angmar version
- Gulzar

> NOTES:
- Veterans of the Last Alliance: they would be the only heroic unit to start at level 5, but their highest level would be 10 (working just like this suggestion)
- As Quickbeam and Treebeard are too strong for their prices, they could also get a fitting change:
. Quickbeam - would be recruited at level 1 instead of 10, being able to (slowly) heal as other heroes and level up to level 10
. Treebeard - would be recruited at level 5 instead of 10, being able to (slowly) heal as other heroes and level up to level 10 (working just like this suggestion)
- Nori: even though his Erebor version is old and, therefore, quite experienced, being him a scout hero makes this suggestion bad for him gameplay-wise, as he is a hero to be recruited at the very start of the game. On the other hand, he already comes with an passive ability that levels him up over time, and that works just good as a reference for him being an wise and experienced hero
- What about Sauron and his minions? - Well, this proposal would not work for them; Sauron has an unique levelling up system that already fits even better - even though he is a creature of old, he has to regain all his powers through different tasks, because the fact that he lost the ring does not allow him to unleash his full power - and the same logic applies to his minions, as their strenght comes from their master.

Halbarad

  • Edain Unterstützer
  • Soldat Gondors
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 1.682
Re: Rethinking levelling system of some heroes
« Antwort #1 am: 12. Nov 2019, 12:57 »
I don't know about Level 20, but I definitely reached Level 10 with the veterans. Would probably get more interesting if they would get new Abilitys at Level 10, 15 and/ or 20 like switching weapons and these kind of things.
The leveling system makes much fun right now, getting some heroes at level 5 directly would lower the fun of using it in my opinion.
Right now, we do have a system where a player, especially a new one, can explore his heroes step by step, level by level and is happy when he can explore a new ability/ spell.
With your system, half of the abilities of the hero would be available already. Just think about a hero like Thranduil starting directly at level 5: A new player will have to read 6 abilitys: Sword and staff, sword, two swords, magic shield, king of the elven realm (with its difference in active and passive mode), elk.
Its just so much that you don't have time in a normal game to read everything, so you just let him go and fight because you have to focus on battle. By leveling him up, you always get a small win by getting a level and your price for that is the new ability for wich you'll often find the time to read because its just one at a time. 
Next thing, if one hero has experience at the beginning, why doesn't another one?
Balin is Level 5 and Thorin not? Thorin is even older than Balin. Theoden is at Level 5 but Legolas not? Legolas is like about a thousand years older. Just don't take the experience too seriously, it will make things more complicated.  :D
Think of it more as a system that shows you how serious the hero takes the battle. Boromir for example is at first more like a traveler who wan'ts to help out. The longer the battle goes, the more he sees that he has to take it seriously, so he first gets his armor and at Level 10 even organizes supporting troops. He gets to know the fighting area and his enemys fighting style, thats why he gets stronger with each level.

I agree that we could think about changing Levelsystems for some heroes. The hero submod for edain 3.8.1 for example made a system, where Aragorn had 20 levels so it was easier to implement his path from ranger to king and it worked out really well.
In an even older Edain version, the heroes didn't remember their level because of some bug. So the Edain team just changed the system that heroes with a higher level than 5 will be revived at Level 5. So it was much more critical to loose a hero at level 10 and a revived Gandalf couldn't directly used his Level 10 ability again.
The systems had its flaws and so it was removed, but thinking about it, letting a hero (except for example Sauron) lose one level by death could make the game more interesting.
« Letzte Änderung: 12. Nov 2019, 13:03 von )-(albarad »

Gnomi

  • Administrator
  • Bewahrer des roten Buches
  • *****
  • Beiträge: 12.617
Re: Rethinking levelling system of some heroes
« Antwort #2 am: 12. Nov 2019, 15:03 »
Zitat
The systems had its flaws and so it was removed, but thinking about it, letting a hero (except for example Sauron) lose one level by death could make the game more interesting.
This system was one of the main reasons of the crash of CaHs and when loading a game. Making it for every level will be about 10 times worse, so we won't integrate such a system.

dgsgomes

  • Pförtner von Bree
  • *
  • Beiträge: 75
  • "If by my life or death I can protect you, I will"
Re: Rethinking levelling system of some heroes
« Antwort #3 am: 12. Nov 2019, 17:50 »
To )-(albarad:

I will answer each of your points:

1- Yes, levelling up is fun, but you would still be able to do so. My suggestion would work only for a few heroes (specially the most expensive and not easily accessible ones) - and as they would take longer to level up, reaching even higher levels would be great milestones; As of now, I'm pretty sure the game has around 50 heroes, and more will come with new factions. Also, levelling up gives stat boosts as well, which is an extremely important feature.

2- I don't agree that having heroes like Thranduil with a higher level would be a problem for a player to understand each spell, as when he levels up, the player would have to learn anyway (also, it is possible to read the powers even before they are unlocked - I often do it myself). What really makes learning powers hard to players (not only begginers) is 3 features: palantir changes (which indirectly means more then the usual amount of powers - a feature that I personally believe that should only be reserved to Sauron), complicated/not practical abilities and big descriptions for the abilities. The staff/sword features are work as battle stances for Thranduil instead of as an ability; the magic bubble is passive; the elk is very self explanatory; king of the elven realm although is more complicated by itself.

3- The comparation you made for Theoden and Legolas is not through the logic I've thought. Even though Legolas has something around 500 years, that is very little in a life of an elf; however, 70 years for a regular man is a lot, that is why Theoden would start with level 5. Elrond is an example of a much older elf than Legolas, using the same logic. Aragorn is older than Theoden, but he is a dunedain, blessed with a long life, so he is actually young for his life expectancy, that is why he would start with level 1, and so this idea goes on... I know it's not a very objective logic, but IMO it is a nice touch for the game; small variations in the game that are in keep with the lore are often welcomed.

4- Having 20 levels for me just makes the game more complicated, just like the 3 features I said on the 2nd point. As of now, Aragorn has a very nice levelling system that already work without the need of adding further levels; his role is very well represented, he does not need 20 levels the same way Thorin Oakenshield or Gandalf doesn't, for example. However, I'm not against adding/changing abilities for the Veterans of the Last Alliance.

5- I did not know Thorin was older than Balin! I was fooled by the movie representations... But that can be changed  :D