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Autor Thema: Edain 4.5: General Feedback  (Gelesen 1429 mal)

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« am: 25. Jan 2020, 20:04 »
As always, we're eager to hear what you think of the version, which parts you like especially and which parts could use improvement!

Aranruth

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #1 am: 26. Jan 2020, 04:59 »
Excited to be the first on this thread to congratulate the Edain Team for their great work on 4.5!!!  :)

One question on Imladris: I seem to recall a discussion(and believe I read it on the Edain Mod Wiki less than a week ago) about 4.5 bringing a new siege unit to the people of Rivendell, but I see that didn't end up happening...

Does anyone else recall this being brought up, and if my memory did not fail me, maybe the Edain Team could shed some light on the reasoning behind not doing so? I get that they have two in the loremaster and catapult, but I certainly would have liked to see a third thrown in there  xD

Would love to hear the reasoning behind not going that route though. Edain Team seems to know what they're doing, after all  ;)

Mr.Todd

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #2 am: 27. Jan 2020, 20:17 »
Hello Edain Team  :) I repost my comment here, I'm sorry if my english is not perfect, I have a lot of things to say about 4.5!
After more than 3 hours of games I can tell you that I am very happy with the result.
The AI is amazing, very hard and smart even in medium, the balance is at the top, I am happy to see that my army is not slaughtered in few seconds by a defensive tower, it's a good point! Most of the heroes are now super well balanced, the price changes are very significant. The new spells are also very good, very strategic, it's perfect.
Regarding the economic system, it is very well thought, and the idea of ​​putting an active defense capacity in resource structures is genius.
I have some generals comments for you, I think the update time for the forged tools is a bit long, and maybe too expensive in the library, and the begining of the game for Imladris is not easy without Erestor's help because Imladris units are exepensive. I also have the impression that some spells last now too long: the army of the dead for example, they stay a long time on the battflield and our army has no chance of survival.
Concerning the balance it is very good but I find that the Ash ents do enormous damage to farms, in two hits they can destroy a level 3 farm. Regarding the Isengard I would have liked Saruman to be able to have 100% magical dammage as Gandalf but it doesn't matter.
Apart from these few details it is a pleasure to play !!

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #3 am: 27. Jan 2020, 20:49 »
I get that they have two in the loremaster and catapult, but I certainly would have liked to see a third thrown in there  xD
They can also build rams from the Dunedain outpost, so they already are at three^^
If any improvements need to be made, it'll probably be Loremasters.

kreso

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #4 am: 29. Jan 2020, 00:47 »
Hello Edain team,

I'm here just to say BIG THANK YOU for your work and dedication to the mod. Really nice to see some ideas from fans came trough, even few of my own.
It is early to give some tweaks, but surely I will play mod offline/online to give feedbacks. This is almost new mod, not a patch hahaha.
As Imladris main, one thing that I think it could be problematic is economy, not sure that Erestor late game could be implemented very effectively since they have strongest late game of all factions. Imladris had relatively bad early game in previous patch (creeping only one camp at the time, weak scout hero in terms of stats, very expensive pikes to own map against cavalry). Even putting Erestor with lvl 2 Library will not help early game, because it was main thing for Imladris early game. Not sure yet how strong the economy is after Library change, maybe it is even stronger than in the previous patch. Good thing You reduce micro economy with this change it is good for casual play. In some match ups (like Mordor to counter orc spam or Rohan to counter cavalry spam) I want to spam soldiers in early game and I used Erestor to buff production but that is gone now. Not effective to go double racks in the main, especially with less plots than the others. Please take care of that. Maybe reducing production time for 20%?

Usual path was build one forge and get very early upgrades and buff that forge for resources. This was secure way to transition from early game to mid game, where Imladris shine.

That thing in the new patch when you get Library you also get forge lvl 2 and upgrades is crucial thing.

Thank You one more time, hopefully there is still player base around mod.
"What have we done, O king? Is it a crime to be lost in the forest, to be hungry and thirsty, to be trapped by spiders?"

Le Sournois

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #5 am: 29. Jan 2020, 21:06 »
I have not played very much at the moment but I am very impressed of all that revamp.
I mean, Imladris in Edain 4.4 was my least favourite faction, not bad, but no that interesting to play, I had the feeling the Library was not as representative of Imladris as Sauron is for Mordor. And now the Library is really well done, doesn't produce a humongous amount of ressources any more which is very good but nonetheless improve your eco and army and can led to wonderful strategies as interesting as you can have with Sauron in Mordor.

And there is a lot of similar good choices in terms of strategy for all the factions with economy (lumbermills...), with defense (Isengard sentry Wargs..), with offense (Gondor Shields...) and some very original ideas (Lothlorien abiliy in stealth mode...). The Central Spell is such a good idea to make all the skirmish more intense and more strategic.

Another thing I like is that you got rid of all the last random factors which were a bit frustrating when they didn't work as we wanted (Wormtongue in Orthanc and the Signal fires for Gondor).

Maybe I'm too enthusiastic as I have not played a lot, but for the moment I'm impressed.

The only small reproach I could do is that command points are increased maybe too easily. The new system is very nice, I don't put it into question, but something like a progressive cost would be interesting. It's the same cost to get from 500 to 700 CP and to get from 1300 to 1500 CP when I think it should be a little bit harder at the end. But that's a very small thing.

Congratulations, Edain team !



Laggy22

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #6 am: 30. Jan 2020, 22:34 »
I had a skirmish game go more than an hour on Fords of Isen II in a bitter stalemate, only to have the map spawn thousands of wildmen and ballistas to attack both the computer and I. Fortunately for me, I was winning the war of attrition and the surge of wildmen was too much for the AI to recover from.

Is this an easter egg of some sort? I thought it was fun because I won. Not a horde map so it was unexpected. Anyway, you guys are super great and this mod is fantastic. I've had a blast playing it so far and it all seems very well thought out and balanced. That game the wildmen ended was a really fun game because of how well balanced Mordor and Gondor were. Rock solid.

Gnomi

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #7 am: 30. Jan 2020, 22:42 »
It is not an easteregg, but a map feature.^^ Actually one of the oldest ones, I think it was already in 3.0 or something like that. :D Glad you like it! :)

Chrishedges

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #8 am: 1. Feb 2020, 11:54 »
I must say this is a fantastic upgrade, I have enjoyed playing it the last few days. Loving the new spell books and the strategic changes to Lothlorien and Galadriel, I am a bit sad to see Frodo and Sam have been dropped, Frodo didn’t offer much but I did like sam’s gardener ability so you could plant mallorn trees wherever you wanted, not sure if there is a way to reintroduce this or not but not a deal breaker. I have also noticed though that custom ranger hero’s have a really strange colour scheme going on and I can’t change the colour of there equipment, is this a bug or an intended change, as I would say the colours match Mordor more then Gondor or any good side?
It's a dangerous thing walking out of your front door frodo, you never know where the road may take you.

The_Necromancer0

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #9 am: 1. Feb 2020, 12:00 »
It is a bug that will be fixed soon.
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8
Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

GildorInglorion

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #10 am: 10. Feb 2020, 19:14 »
Imladris AI is weak due to its not understanding lore masters' support roles. The thing is, they use lore masters too bad. Lore masters are solo, AI use them as other soldiers, so they die easily and the money spent to them becomes a waste. I think each lore master should come with two elven soldiers guarding him passively and middle spell on spellbook should also unlock another passive to lore masters as giving them %25 more arrow resistance or something. That way AI can use them better.

LilJur

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #11 am: 13. Feb 2020, 23:54 »
Got around 6 hours into the new game now and played Horde maps with all factions and skirmishes with Imlardis, Gondor and Angmar.

First of all, great work on everything. To me, it feels like one of the most completed and less buggiest mods there is.
The economic system is great. It makes every faction feel different enough to have enough variety in gameplay and I hope this will be expanded upon in the future with more unique upgrades for every faction. I do think some upgrades take to long, like the tools. (would you please consider a upgrade where your siege weapons do not damage your own troops and buildings? Return of Shadow for BFME1 has it and it is a blessing!)

The spellbook is ok-ish. I really like some of the spells and some less, but I think this is more because of my play style.

Than there is Imladris.
I feel they aren't as good as they could be. I played as Imladris vs Angmar. The game lasted almost 2 hours because I simply would not come to strength.
When I played as Gondor or Angmar vs 3 AIs, the games lasted just under an hour.
One of the reasons I think, is their squad size. All battalions of Imladris are 5 units.
All other factions have 10-15 units in their battalions and only 5 units in their elite battalions. Now, one could argue Imladris has 5 units because their units are strong.
But I feel they aren't strong. Some types of units take up even more CP than their equivalent of other factions, yet their equivalent will beat them 1 on 1.

I do like how this mod has added a lot of siege things. It is however very unfortunate these cannot be put to good use. My suggestion would be to look at Return of Shadow for BFME1. They increased building hitpoints and made swords and regular arrows less effective against them. It can literately take minutes to destroy a building if you do not use catapults, axes or fire arrows. This makes sieges and siege engines more relevant.

Bugs?
One thing that really bothered me is how ineffective archers are on walls.
When you put archers on the walls on BFME1, they stay where you've put them down. For some reason, the archers in this mod keep walking around. They walk around the walls, the go from the walls to the courtyard and back, they go all over the place and don't stay. I can't even use postal gates because if I do, the archers will go through the gate to attack the enemies instead of staying on the wall to shoot them.

Another thing I noticed; wall mounted trebuchets will automatically acquire all targets (even though they miss every shot) except other trebuchets.
Playing as Gondor and fighting Gondor, I noticed they would never auto acquire any trebuchets in range, I had to manually select them.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #12 am: 14. Feb 2020, 00:37 »
If you press the "S" button, any selected units will stop moving until they get a new order. You can use it for archers on walls to stop them from running around. Put them into offensive stance as well for good measure.

GildorInglorion

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #13 am: 14. Feb 2020, 17:12 »
If you put archers in defensive stance they will not auto attack, but if you put them agressive stance they will attack when an enemy enters their range and they will not move(will not chase the enemy) if enemy leaves their range, but of course they will be more vulnerable since their armor will decrease on agressive stance.

But one of the advantages of defensive stance is, I think, your archers will only auto attack to enemy archers who attacking your defensive stance archers. So with this way your archers automatically will kill enemy archers first, then you can command them to kill the other battalions of the enemy.
« Letzte Änderung: 14. Feb 2020, 17:15 von GildorInglorion »

dgsgomes

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Re: Edain 4.5: General Feedback
« Antwort #14 am: 17. Feb 2020, 20:23 »
I will try to be more generic in the feedback; more specific questions will be left for another time and in more opportune places

I already made it very clear how satisfied I was with the release of version 4.5, I really liked the addition of new units, the new spellbook, the bug fixes, the new economy system, the new maps, and so on.

In this context, however, although I have enjoyed many of the changes involving the siege update, there are some points that I consider important for making sieging in Edain more satisfying; currently, we have players who don't care about siege and, in the face of unlikely game situations, prefer to simply declare the "gg" and start another game, and we have players, like me, who think the siege premise is fantastic and that wants the opportunity to see it perfected in the game.

Well, after this introduction, below are some aspects of sieging that I consider relevant to be discussed:


1. Siege weapons are generally produced from far away from the enemy base and move slowly, which makes sieging tedious - with rare exceptions, such as Lothlorien, who produces Beornings and Ents in settlements and has much more flexibility in choosing where to produce their siege weapons, what happens in games is that when an enemy is forced to retreat to his defenses because he has lesser military strength, moments of long wait start from the production of expensive siege weapons at the attacker's initial base (which often need to destroy other constructions to start making siege weapons), until they move to the enemy base; if these siege weapons are destroyed, the long process is repeated. Would it be an option to extend Lothlorien's dynamics involving siege weapons to other factions? Historically, siege weapons did not normally travel long distances, but were prepared/assembled close to the enemy's base. For me, this is a major issue.


2. Towers remain very efficient in Edain, especially those that can be produced in large quantities, and this reduces the dynamics of the sieges - although they have suffered a reduction in health and an increase in price, the towers usually remain quite threatening; Castle with many towers (like Mordor and Isengard) and even Camps (including Rohan) almost completely prevent enemy direct attack, as the damage output from the towers remains very high and can decimate armies without strong upgrades. Another advantage for these factions is that they are able to gradually acquire these defense towers, while in the walled Castles, although the towers are efficient and resistant, they require a very high initial investment (700) which in many scenarios is not accessible. Would it be possible to further reduce the damage of the towers against units (with the exception of heroes, who are already highly resistant to towers) a possible solution? With the current potential of the towers, siege battles are often limited to siege weapons (the attacker with the army away from the wall, using battering rams or catapults until they reach a freer path to the opposing citadel).


3. The versatility of the siege involving other means, especially troops, has been little explored - this fact has much to do with the previous point, if the towers are so much stronger, I will seek to attack my enemy from a distance, in this case, I choose catapults; the opponent sees that I am attacking purely with catapults, sees that there is no need to place archers on the wall, as they will not normally cause significant damage to siege weapons and are extremely vulnerable to catapults, and either expect me to destroy his gate or it produces a catapult on the wall to retaliate mine, and there the battle continues at a distance. Another important point is that alternative resources, such as stairs or siege towers, are shy about the fact that simply breaking the gate always seems like a better alternative; Castle gates are currently quite vulnerable, and if the enemy has not prepared for an enemy invasion by building defenses on its walls, it is much better to simply break down the front door. In that sense, if gates were more resistant, wouldn't it be more interesting to surprise the enemy with tunnels / stairs / siege towers to invade before it is actually possible to destroy the gate? Of course, added to that, the gate would need to be repaired much more slowly. Well, these alternative resources must be explored, including plans for the Goblins to also have tunnel-digging systems to invade enemy bases.

Bug (?): The archs on the side of Imladris Castle prevent siege towers from being able to stick and function properly, and may need to be removed (or at least reduced in length)


4. Lothlorien's base is very vulnerable, especially in Camps, where the citadel has the same health as the citadels of other factions, besides being a much bigger and easier target to attack, not having walls around and having fragile defenses, with archers that cannot be controlled to attack specific targets; furthermore, even if the attached buildings remain intact, by destroying the citadel without another base elsewhere on the map, the player is automatically defeated

Bug (?): Beorning hut does not count as military construction, and therefore its presence alone does not prevent a player with Lothlorien from losing when his Camp citadel is destroyed.


5. Denethor remains an extremely effective counter against siege weapons in general, especially catapults, and this is a potentially irritating factor. Is it a possible solution to reduce the range of your attacks? Reduce your damage against siege weapons? Make sure you don't gain range bonuses when over the wall? Frankly, I have no idea - but something definitely needs to be changed.


Well, all that said, I'm very pleased with the work done so far, and I'd like to congratulate Edain Team for this patch.

Thanks for the attention  :)