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Autor Thema: Edain micro  (Gelesen 627 mal)

Yappir

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Edain micro
« am: 15. Apr 2020, 19:19 »
In startegy games one of biggest issues is microing your units. Using your units abilities and making sure that units fight advantages fights.

I play companyof heroes on competitive level so over 3000+ hours and I am rather good with managing my troops.

I recently started playing Edian and I find late game micro a bit too much.
I might be not familiar with all mod feathures so I might miss something.
Recently I have been playing mordor and this is a list of things i have to do in real time:
Casting powers.
Moving my units
Spreading my units so they are not vulnerable to AOE spells
Making more units
Using single units abilites
Changing unit stances
Using hero abilities
Reading tool tips for hero abilities.
Buying banners for newbly made units
Looking for enemy heroes and trying to snipe them
Runing away with my heroes so they are not killed
Using Sauron Powers

There is no way that this is managable and if you are fighting invisible army of elvn archers this just turns into next level of frustration

These are my sugestions to make game more managable esepcialy for players who are new to strategy games

Toggle button that makes production easier to manage they might loop production so i do not need to manually reset it. This will be loved by mordor players who are all about that free ork spam.
This toggle button could also make banners or other improvments be purchesed upon unit spawning.

Regular "cannon fodder" untis should not have abilities that require clicking and if they really need to have them there should be an option to click them globaly.

Units should be easier to click on. Now when i want my arches to attack enemy infantry i need to precisly click on enemy model. If i click on the ground betwen models they will try to walk there. Why is that a feathue? If i click on the ground under someones feet it is obvious i want to attack them. There should be a hotkey that makes unit attack unit that is closes to the mouse. for example "Mouse + Alt" means attack unit that is closest to this position.

Enemy heroes should be easier to find on the battlefield. I find it hard to spot a single model unit in the late game battle esepcialy when they look very alike. Elven hero among elven soldier etc. Also clicking on them is hard specially when they are moving fast.
There should be a hotkey that higlights all heroes and hotkey to attack nearby hero.

Speaking of heroes. Heroes abilities.
Each faction has many heores and some heroes have even many forms or pages with abilities. Mouth of Sauron for example has huge amount of abilities and he is perfect example what i have trouble with.
All his abilities have similar images (mouths) and for me it is hard to memories with does what. I rember that there was one that weakne heroes but I have to pause and start reading tooltips in the middle of the game. This is terrbile.
Make abilities color coded.
Red abilities are damage abilities.
Pink are buffs.
Green are damage over time.
Yellow are weakening and so on.
You can just apply colour filter on your buttons.
In a matter of few games you can train the player to recognize your colour pattern.
If you are afriad that this might lower the game looks this can also be toggled. as a help. Similar colour code could be aplied to faction spellbook.
« Letzte Änderung: 16. Apr 2020, 10:35 von Gnomi »

The_Necromancer0

  • Edain Unterstützer
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  • There is evil there that does not sleep
Re: Edain micro
« Antwort #1 am: 15. Apr 2020, 19:39 »
The following are not possible from what I know mainly because a lot of these would require changing how the game engine works:
Zitat
Toggle button that makes production easier to manage they might loop production so i do not need to manually reset it. This will be loved by mordor players who are all about that free ork spam.
This toggle button could also make banners or other improvments be purchesed upon unit spawning.
Zitat
and if they really need to have them there should be an option to click them globaly.
Zitat
Units should be easier to click on. Now when i want my arches to attack enemy infantry i need to precisly click on enemy model. If i click on the ground betwen models they will try to walk there. Why is that a feathue? If i click on the ground under someones feet it is obvious i want to attack them. There should be a hotkey that makes unit attack unit that is closes to the mouse. for example "Mouse + Alt" means attack unit that is closest to this position.
Zitat
There should be a hotkey that higlights all heroes and hotkey to attack nearby hero.
Zitat
If you are afriad that this might lower the game looks this can also be toggled

I think changing MoS's icons to be more unique for his second Palantir is a good idea. It's just a matter of finding pictures that match, although for this particular case simply a different colour scheme could be nice too.

For other abilities the colour scheme might be more problematic as abilities tend to be far more complex than just damage or buff. For example Lurtz's cripple strike is both a damage ability and a debuff (it reduces enemy move speed by a 100%). I also disagree on basic units not having abilities, it gives them so much more strategical value to have those abilities, allowing similar units to be used for widely different purposes.
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8
Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

Yappir

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: Edian micro
« Antwort #2 am: 15. Apr 2020, 19:58 »
What about heroes?
I find it very troublsome to find them on the battlefield. Is there anyway to give them banners or big red stars above thier head same as the elite untis have?

The_Necromancer0

  • Edain Unterstützer
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  • There is evil there that does not sleep
Re: Edian micro
« Antwort #3 am: 15. Apr 2020, 20:08 »
Your heroes or the enemy heroes?
Come chat Edain on Discord: https://discord.gg/CMhkeb8
Questions on the Mod? Visit the Official Wiki: http://edain.wikia.com/

Yappir

  • Bilbos Festgast
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Re: Edian micro
« Antwort #4 am: 15. Apr 2020, 20:21 »
Enemy heroes, I have no problem finding my own on the battlefield. Best would be to give it to everyone

kmogon

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
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  • "They stole it from us ! My precious Curse them!"
Re: Edian micro
« Antwort #5 am: 15. Apr 2020, 20:52 »
Hello,
About that all managing your micro, I recommend you to check out replays of players on edainranked.com . There you can see how they are managing their micro. It is know that due to engine limitations some mechanics are bit clunky but after some practice one can use them pretty well.
You can also check out videos of latest tournament on Edain Fight Club channel or Noobfella channel on youtube and learn for it too. You also can check unnoficial edain discord server to talk about how to play each faction better.

DSS

  • Edain Betatester
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Re: [s]Edian[/s] Edain(;D) micro
« Antwort #6 am: 16. Apr 2020, 00:29 »
I'd like to adress some things you mentioned and give some tips:

First of all Edain hotkeys are streamlined: In the ui from top to bottom the ability's are bound to y x c v b ...
Furthermore if you have units selected you can use the "e" once to select all units that are the same than the ones you have selected that are on your screen and press it twice to do the same for those units mapwide
Spreading my units so they are not vulnerable to AOE spells
If you press "R" all selected units split. Prob usually worse than good manual splitting but useful nonetheless

Zitat
Using single units abilites
Changing unit stances
Zitat
Regular "cannon fodder" untis should not have abilities that require clicking and if they really need to have them there should be an option to click them globaly.
Usually if you have units selected that are the same if you use the ability for all of them, this is were using "e" to select those units can be useful

Zitat
Reading tool tips for hero abilities.
Zitat
Each faction has many heores and some heroes have even many forms or pages with abilities.
Well ofc if you're new to an rts then you have to learn a lot of new things, Hero-abilitys are just something you have to learn

Zitat
Buying banners for newbly made units
Not sure what you're problem is with that, you can buy upgrades for multiple units at once and it still possible to do that if some of those already have those upgrades (only exception are eregion blades and eregion arrows of Imladris)

Zitat
All his abilities have similar images (mouths) and for me it is hard to memories with does what. I rember that there was one that weakne heroes but I have to pause and start reading tooltips in the middle of the game. This is terrbile.
True those ability should get better icons, but most icons are pretty good I think

Zitat
Make abilities color coded.
I agree with what necro said here, furthermore it wouldn't remove the fact that you usualy have to know what an ability does in order to use it, and like I said I think most abilitys are easy to learn/remember and recognize by their icon.

Overall as an fairly experienced player I don't think there are to many things to micro; I hope the things I mentioned help you to better manage lategame micro :D

Halbarad

  • Edain Betatester
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Re: Edain micro
« Antwort #7 am: 17. Apr 2020, 19:43 »
Many things are showing the conflict between the game wanting to look good and being easier to play. The others already wrote a bit, so I will answer to the suggestions I like:

1. Highlighting heroes - it shouldn't be a huge star like the created hero has it but how about a subtle difference? For example:
- making their life bar longer in hight
- making a line with same hight as the level star above heroes, same color as the star above the created hero
Question to the team: Right now, there is a mode in the options menu to show or hide life bars. Since no one really disables that (especially since we got Imladris the way it is), couldn't it maybe be possible to always show life bars and enable or disable with that bar extra signs for heroes like the ones I suggested to use?

2. Changing abilities picture/ color to highlight their effect
I do agree that its not that easy to oversee all abilities, especially since edain moved away from using old images and changed them to their own, unique images. I do really like the idea and although some spells combine many functions, there is often one that sticks out. Like cripple strike, which does damage but is first of all a debuff. Special spells, which you can't put into such a code, could remain as they are. Still, it would be much more clear to see the spells impact and I think that you really could sort most spells in that code. Could be worth to think about it at least.