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Thorin Oakenshield: King Under The Mountain

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OakenShield224:
Hello everyone!
Today I’d like to talk about the King Under The Mountain, Thorin Oakenshield. This is mainly a response to the latest news about Ring Hero Dain. While this concept is outstanding, I feel that it makes Thorin’s system feel a little generic in comparison. This proposal should hopefully help Thorin stand up alongside the other Dwarven Ring Heroes, all while being some (hopefully) simple changes to implement. I will also take the opportunity to alter a few of his base-line abilities to make them a little more fitting and less overpowered.

Thorin OakenshieldMy first change is towards the Oakenshield ability which renders Thorin (and nearby units at higher levels) invulnerable. Right now, it is definitely fitting towards his status as tank hero of Ered Luin but is very powerful as it essentially removes any consequences for mistakes. And so I would like to change it to the following ability which will hopefully keep the same themes while being easier to deal with:

Level 6: Oakenshield – Thorin wields an oaken branch as a shield. For 15s, Thorin is immune to ranged damage and has +50% increased armour against melee strikes. At level 10, this will apply to nearby allied units.

While still a powerful effect, it can still be countered by enemy forces. To compensate, it would last longer than the current ability.

My second change to base Thorin is a small one. This is to change the name of Gleam of the Arkenstone to Du Bekar/The King’s Charge/To Me! The reasoning for this is that the Arkenstone had little relation to Thorin in person. He never held it or used it during the Hobbit. It was only ever a source of pain for him (he was obsessed over finding it and violently turned on Bilbo when he found out that the Hobbit had taken it). In addition, it’s unlikely that the gemstone itself would induce fear in enemies. It wasn’t a Silmaril after all. By changing the name, it emphasises that Thorin’s great charges at the Battle of Five Armies and at Azanulbizar (in the films) were the result of his strength of character and leadership with the other Dwarves.

Ring Hero ThorinMy main reasoning for Ring Hero Thorin seeming lacking compared to the new Dwarven Ring Heroes is that he feels a little unfocused. He has his passive which emphasises his selfish nature but then has Gleam of the Arkenstone which is a fully supportive ability. And now Fires of Durin’s Forge is a far less original power with Durin himself having the power (and yet Ring Hero Dain has a different destructive power), making Thorin seem less original in retrospective.

My first change for Ring Hero Thorin is to change The Immortal. When Thorin was overcome by his desire for treasure, he cared little for others, refusing the safety of the Mountain to the people of Lake-town. This new power will emphasise Thorin’s self-centred nature here.

The Immortal - Thorin becomes immortal for 15s. All enemy units in a large radius around him will deal reduced damage and are slowed.

My second change for Ring Thorin is to change Gleam of the Arkenstone. Once again, Thorin’s obsession with treasure was only something that led to a bad situation. To quote the description of Thror, “and where sickness thrives, bad things will follow”. Therefore, I propose a complete change for this ability to replace it with something more fitting for Thorin.

Possessive Nature – target resource structure is rendered invincible for a time and will earn triple resources. This is unaffected by the passive of Durin's Heir. In this time, all nearby units (both allied and enemy) will have reduced armour.

This ability is also why I wished to change The Immortal. If Thorin was able to render allied units invincible, this would cancel the negative effect of Possessive Nature.

Lastly, I would propose a change to Fires of Durin’s Forge due to this power being taken up by Durin himself, and Ring Hero Dain having a different destructive power. This ability will emphasise how Thorin’s greed only led to dissent between those around him (with Thranduil and Bard arguing with Thorin’s company, Thorin turning on Bilbo, Gandalf trying and failing to keep the peace, and Dain’s arrive escalating matters).

Gold of Erebor – all enemy units in a large radius around Thorin will begin fighting against each other for a time.

Dissent-type powers can be very destructive to enemy forces. Hopefully this power will allow Thorin to keep the army-destroying nature of Durin’s Forge in a method that is more fitting to his themes as a Ring Hero.

Overall, this proposal will switch a few of Thorin’s abilities to make them a lot more fitting towards the character and to the themes of Ring Hero Thorin, as well as to make base-line Thorin a little more balanced. Thank you all for reading and I look forward to hearing your feedback!

Edit: after discussing this in the thread, a few points of discussion have come up:
 - Could piles of gold be used in the base when Thorin has the Ring and as an effect for Gold of Erebor?
 - Could the Arkenstone be used in Gold of Erebor or in the citadel?
 - Level requirement for Ring Thorin's abilities?
 - Possible change to Possessive Nature
Possessive Nature – target resource structure is temporarily unaffected by Durin's Heir while in proximity to Thorin. In this time, all nearby units (both allied and enemy) will have reduced armour. Thorin himself will be faster and can trample enemies in this time.
 - Name changes for Possessive Nature and Durin's Heir

In Favour:
Julio229
Tolgayurdal
Captain Corrigan
MaxPower
Vin55
CaptainChunk!
Strider
AulëTheSmith
dkbluewizard2

Against:

Vin55:
Sounds like a good idea also some really nice new things to change up our beloved brokenshield ^^

Yours kindly,

Vin55

The_Necromancer0:
A very interesting proposal, I like it. First the easy stuff: Gold of Erebor I think it would be neat if, purely as visual flair, piles of gold emerged in the area affected so that enemy armies battled each other surrounded by gold. Something like parts of this model (perhaps even the Arkenstore could make an appearance as the center piece?):

I think the change to Oakenshield is great, mass invulnerability is definitely not a healthy thing to have. It's fun to play with but horrible to play against. The Gleam of the Arkenstone one is only a name change but it changes the concept, would it also require a new FX?

For the ring hero, I like the changes to the The Immortal, it provides a lot more strategical value. The one I'm not sure about Possessive Nature, I think the idea is good on paper but I worry it won't be as interesting in reality. How big do you see the range on this? What I fear is that people will just use it as a glorified Industry, go through a mineshaft and plop it down on some mineshaft in the back of the map.

I think the triple resource gain should be removed, simply have it be regular resource gain. Basically making the building immune to Durin's Heir for a while, and have it provide a buff to Thorin for as long as he is nearby, perhaps the building should only be invulnerable for as long as Thorin is nearby too?

Also, it's probably time to give Thorin's ring form some level requirements again, he's a bit of a weird hero like that, all his abilities bar one are available right at the start, it doesn't feel like there is any progression. Just a power spike at 10.

* Level 1: Fili and Kili
* Level 1: Durin's Heir
* Level 4: Possessive Nature
* Level 7: The Immortal
* Level 10: Gold of Erebor
Oh and finally, I'm definitely in favour.

turin.turambar:
So first thing first, I definitively like this concept, very much in favour.

A couple tweaks I'd like to propose, especially after other dwarven heroes have lost their "high bonus / high malus mechanism" would be to further accentuate this on Thorin. As you say, we can see his destructive nature especially in the way he interacted with his allies, so that would be, for the immortal:

I'd suggest not only enemy units are slowed down and deal reduced damage, but ALL units (allied and enemies alike). Maybe allied units could even have lessened armour, to emphasize thorin being self centered, and not only debuffing massively the enemy, but that may be a bit of a duplicate with possesssive nature, not really sure about this.

and concerning Gold of Erebor, just like the immortal, I'd also suggest it affects your units as well, making it a doublke edged sword to use, and incentizing the player to use it when his units aren't near.

Great concept anyway, as told in the beginning.

turin.turambar

OakenShield224:
Thanks for the support Necro and turin. I'll respond to each of your comments individually.

turin.turambar: I did consider having more of the abilities affect allies as well. However, I feel like having it be more of a double-edged sword would lead to Thorin being quite a bit weaker than other Ring Heroes. At least if standard stats like armour or damage were affected. Something related to experience gain could potentially be incorporated. This would be more up for discussion with others.

Necro: I see what you mean about the effects of Possessive Nature. I added the increased resource gain after talking with others who thought it would be a little underwhelming with just the invulnerability and big debuff. I like your ideas for it though. He already deals pretty good damage with his AOE attacks. Could something like this work?

Possessive Nature – target resource structure is temporarily unaffected by Durin's Heir while in proximity to Thorin. In this time, all nearby units (both allied and enemy) will have reduced armour. Thorin himself will be faster and can trample enemies in this time.

As for your other points, I do agree that the replacement for Gleam of the Arkenstone would need a new FX. From looking at the quotes from The Hobbit, this one stands out in particular:

--- Zitat ---Suddenly there was a great shout, and from the Gate came a trumpet call. They had forgotten Thorin! Part of the wall, moved by levers, fell outward with a crash into the pool. Out leapt the King under the Mountain, and his companions followed him. Hood and cloak were gone; they were in shining armour, and red light leapt from their eyes. In the gloom the great dwarf gleamed like gold in a dying fire.
--- Ende Zitat ---
I can already imagine some sort of red or gold blast coming out from Thorin with that colour affecting the units caught in the ability.
And lastly, I wouldn't be opposed to a level requirement for Ring Hero Thorin. It makes sense with both Durin and Ring Hero Dain also having level requirements for their abilities.

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