28. Okt 2020, 21:49 Hallo Gast.
Willkommen Gast. Bitte einloggen oder registrieren. Haben Sie Ihre Aktivierungs E-Mail übersehen?

Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge. Hierbei werden gemäß Datenschutzerklärung Benutzername und Passwort verschlüsselt für die gewählte Dauer in einem Cookie abgelegt.


Select Boards:
 
Language:
 


Autor Thema: Changing "Banishment to exile" ability  (Gelesen 964 mal)

dgsgomes

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 72
  • "If by my life or death I can protect you, I will"
Changing "Banishment to exile" ability
« am: 22. Okt 2019, 18:47 »
The "Banishment to exile" ability functions gameplay-wise but is not in keep with the lore, because Cursed Theoden works as an important supporter even for units that he has willingly exiled, giving them leadership, affecting them with the use of the "Retreat" ability and other things.

Said that, I came up with this idea to give Theoden a effect radius which would work for this ability the way explained below:

> ADVANTAGES
- Exiled heroes would have + 50% damage (same way);
- Exiled heroes would have - 30% spell recharge time (same way);
- Exiled heroes would have + 15% movement speed (agility helps both to chase opponents and to escape in difficult situations - it also gives the feeling that the exiled hero is more driven to fight);
- Exiled heroes would have + 100% faster exp gain (exiled heroes like Eomer and Gamling would benefit greatly as faster exp gain would allow them to acquire their optimal abilities faster - and acquired levels would remain after the exilement was reversed);
- Also, Exiled Heroes COULD be resurrected - but ONLY in an "EXILES CAMP"!

> DISADVANTAGES
- Exiled heroes within cursed Theoden radius would lose their bonuses as well as suffer -25% armor;
- Exiled heroes could not benefit from the retreat ability;
- Heroes would automatically leave exile and their respective buffs and debuffs after Theoden is healed (but this will be compensated in 4.5, as Theoden will buff all heroes when he is fred from Saruman).

> OTHER IMPORTANT ASPECTS
- Exiled rohirrim recruited from "exiles camp" would also suffer -25% armor if within the cursed Theoden radius, as well as not being benefited by the retreat ability or affected by cursed Theoden's "leadership" ability;
- An "exiles camp" could only be upgraded to become a "King's camp" after Theoden was healed (I think it would match PERFECTLY with the 4.5 patch Rohan's central spellbook spell).

The idea behind this suggestion is to make the exiles fight independently of Cursed Theoden, getting faster experience and harassing the enemy with stronger stats until their king is healed, so they can all fight for Rohan as an united force. This way, important gameplay aspects will be preserved and the ability would also be in keep with the lore.


IN FAVOUR

1. GildorInglorion
2. tolgayurdal


AGAINST

Seleukos I.

  • Edain Balancetester
  • Gesandter der Freien Völker
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 371
Re: Changing "Banishment to exile" ability
« Antwort #1 am: 22. Okt 2019, 20:29 »
Zitat
[…] the impossibility of reviving defeated heroes that were exiled is not so important by itself, as they don't die very easily (they get much stronger) and it is easily denied when Theoden is healed and therefore it isn't a big step back […]

Well, I can insure you, it is a very big lost when you loose a banished hero. Especially because some heroes, like Gamling, are quite important for Rohan.
Loosing a hero is always a big lost, but when you can't re-buy him it can be gg. And healing Theoden isn't always possible.

In general I see the reasons behind you idea lore-wise, but I think gameplay-wise it wouldn't be really helpfull. Rohan is one of the few factions that can afforde to get rather early heroes without risking to loose the game imediately thanks to Theodens retreat ability. So it's key to use your hero in combination with Theoden in order to be able to save him if needed.
If you think the banish-ability is too strong, I could maybe imagine some other kind of nerf or debuff, like 10 or 15% slower leveling for banished heroes.

That's at least what I think, maybe other, more experienced players could share their thoughts as well :)

best regardes,
Seleukos I.

kmogon

  • Wanderer des Alten Waldes
  • *
  • Beiträge: 67
  • "They stole it from us ! My precious Curse them!"
Re: Changing "Banishment to exile" ability
« Antwort #2 am: 22. Okt 2019, 23:55 »
The problem is that abilitys' lore reasoning should be that more important than gameplay one.
Right now drawback connected with using this spell is pretty high. In pvp matches, as Seleukos mensioned earlier, loosing hero and not being able to revive him is sometime a gg move. Mostly due to the fact that in competitive game there are better spells than Theoden's healing which are nessesery for you to keep up.

Zitat
...And I'do go further in my suggestion - I also think that cursed Theoden's retreat ability should not work for the exiled heroes, also for a logic reason (there is no reason why a banished hero would be supported by the king who exiled him)! So you must choose WISELY if you really want to banish your heroes, as it SHOULD be RISKY!
I don't think that banish is that good power to be made so risky to play. I mean, not being able to revive is big drawback, but totaly excluding hero from participating in main clump is just too bad. Theoden is so much essential for peasant spam thanks for his leadership, traitors and retreat ability but so is Hama, Gamling or Eomer. Boosting one of those in an exchange for those debuffs wouldn't be woth it in my opinion.

Seleukos I.

  • Edain Balancetester
  • Gesandter der Freien Völker
  • ***
  • Beiträge: 371
Re: Changing "Banishment to exile" ability
« Antwort #3 am: 23. Okt 2019, 13:35 »
I can totaly understand your suggestion, and it makes much sense in terms of lore. Why should a banished hero fight alongside with the very man who exiled him?
But in terms of gameplay I think it is better the way it is now, I mentioned some reasons in my fist post.
Now we have the "old" conflict of gameplay vs lore. I can totaly understand that there are many players, who say lore is more important. But for me, as a "competetive" multiplayer player gameplay is more important.

And I think in really high-level multiplayer games (that does not mean you're not high Level, I never saw you play, so I can's tell) banishing heroes is not always the best option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTU-kSUD9Y
This is a rather old game (11. 2016), but it showes exactly that: Rohan heroes can die, and banishing is not a "no-brain" move.

And furthermore we have to consider that the banishment ability will be weaker in 4.5 because the banished heroes will loose their Bonus as soon as Theoden gets cured. Right now they keep it until they die.

best regardes,
Seleukos I.


tolgayurdal

  • Gast
Re: Changing "Banishment to exile" ability
« Antwort #5 am: 28. Feb 2020, 14:02 »
Greetings!

I really like the reworked the banishment ability consept. Most parts really fits for gameplay. In case of exiled heroes revive, i think that it should not be in only exile camp. Instead the loyal heroes may cost free or another reduced value in the camp or resurrection time might be much lowered in the citadel.

Also it would be better that the central spell upgrades it to the King's Camp. Thus the player gets elite units of Meduseld through Glourious King spell, not before Theoden healed as centered hero. Lastly, i am for it.