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Witch-king of Angmar Discussion

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Halbarad:
@tolgayurdal I wouldn't focus to much on his role as leader of the Nazgul, more as his role as leader of Angmar.

I also don't think that he would need a whole new concept, maybe we could just try to adjust what we got.
I'm not for such a system as "Service for the Deadliest One". I don't think that the Witchking needs extra experience. He already levels pretty fast due to his strong attacks and most of the other Angmar heroes do have really cool abilities and features, so it would only/mostly be useful when the other hero had already reached level 10, which gets to the next problem: Put the ability on Zaphragor level 10, use Zaphragors level 10 ability, Witchking gets all the experience plus maybe even the experience for being near to Zaphragor.
The central spell should definetly be focused on just one hero, even if its the central hero himself. Gandalf the White would also be a really bad central spell. Also just lowering damage and armor for units around the Witchking is a really boring effect and the snow storm, which is the coolest thing about this ability, would be missed.
Bounding some of his abilities to buildings level 3 could be interesting, although you should keep in mind that it wouldn't be so difficult to get them when the player gets the Sanctuary of the Witchking (defense 10 spell) and that the Witchking already has some really complex abilities while Angmar is the faction with most heroes in the mod.
I still think that it would be interesting if the Witchking would only use his mace when using a special ability. As we all know, Angmar already has a huge mass destroying potential. The Witchking should be focused on sword or fighting with 2 swords or something. Another thing: Soul Disturbance (reject timer of enemys abilities to just used) isn't that cool right now. Its strong, yes, but I think that it could be done much better:

My suggestion for Soul Disturbance:

New Life Drinking Blade (Level 10) = Death Blade & Soul Disturbance combined
If WK hits an enemy hero with Death Blade at Level 10, the hero gets his special abilities reset to just used. The poison effect for surrounding units would therefore be canceled, since the ability is mainly good against heroes (yes he got huge aoe, but he also doesn't throw back units and the enemy often got better armor when the Witchking has reached level 10) this wouldn't be that bad.
Therefore, one ability in his palantir would be free (from the old Soul Disturbance) and you could feel free to create a new one.

tolgayurdal:
Greetings!

The last update before Misty Mountains has been released and brought a lot of feedback with it. I haven't explained my proposal very well when i shared but i try to answer and enlight somethings, also thanks for giving precious feedbacks to it.

Witch King is very unique character as the Lord of Nazgul, but also the most powerful servant of Dark Lord in fact. Even in Mordor, he does not level up while fighting, his strength comes from his master. As mentioned, sent for destroying Arnor and returned when the job is done. So his experience does not lie upon killing units, instead, he has servants to do that and this increases his effectiveness in the North. So he requires a different level up system for reaching and using his already specialized skills in my opininon.

Another thing is that he is the only official hero in the faction as the central one. In the light of this reality, Zaphragor and Durmath are more suitable for a change, if necessary, because WK's abilities are not directly parts of mass slayer or hero killer roles.

However i agree some of your points: New Life Drinking Blade of Halbarad and balance issues with terrifying effect (instead of knock back) of Oakenshield. Surely the concept needs be improved in several ways as not being perfect and of course it is just a suggestion.

Best regards.

OakenShield224:
The point is though, he may have been a Nazgul, but he was not known as a Nazgul until the end of the war. He was only known as the Witch-king, and so should be treated more as the Lord of Angmar instead of Chief of the Ringwraiths.
On a separate note, I like the idea of combining the effects of his final abilities. As faction leaders go, Life Drinking Blade feels quite underwhelming compared to abilities like Glorious Charge or Nenya's Cleansing or even something like Hour of the Witch King. I also agree with the issues of forcing the Witch-king to only gain experience from other heroes as stated by Halbarad.
As for Seleukos' idea, I like the idea of him being tied to Angmar's various tech options. However, it does have issues. Part of the reason this sort of system was changed from 3.8.1 was because the faction just ended up being way too complicated with its hero system. But also one of the strengths of Angmar is versatility with being able to go with whichever strategy you want. Wolves or thralls in the early game. Continued thralls, Carn Dum, werewolves, sorcerers or barrow wights in the later stages. By forcing the player to go through all of them to strengthen the Witch-king, it sort of goes against one of the main ideas with the faction.

Halbarad:

--- Zitat von: OakenShield224 am 29. Jun 2020, 13:03 ---Life Drinking Blade feels quite underwhelming compared to abilities like Glorious Charge or Nenya's Cleansing or even something like Hour of the Witch King.

--- Ende Zitat ---

So how about my idea when he is able to reset everys heroes abilities when attacking them for a short time? Would be pretty huge when being able to attack multiple enemy heroes such as Gandalf Level 10 and Aragorn (= no word of power or other magic, no healing, no swordmaster if the player hasn't just used it before being attacked by the Witchking, ...).  Would be even better when he is on his horse since he can run down enemy heroes.


--- Zitat von: OakenShield224 am 29. Jun 2020, 13:03 ---Part of the reason this sort of system was changed from 3.8.1 was because the faction just ended up being way too complicated with its hero system.

--- Ende Zitat ---
I don't think so since his system it had nothing to do with Angmars hero system. Angmar just had too many buildings for the new building system (extra building for thrawmasters). You also didn't have to build up every building, just buy the upgrades in the fortress. However, reducing his amount of abilies may have been part of the change.

steadii:
In general I agree that WK for Angmar needs rework and some connection to spellbook (for instance via central spell).

Concerning his Ring mechanic - of course that ring should be somehow connected to him, because of gameplay and faction leader, but we all know that is totally against the lore as nine answers only to Sauron so that is quite strange for WK to keep the ring. I always imagined that Sauron actually could be revived, but not fiery and heavy armoured version like in Mordor nor spectral like Anatar, but something between, someone who does not want to interfere directly and prefers WK to leads his legion in the North. For instance old model for Necromancer but not green, more icy/blue, and with some weapon:



So another version of Sauron would be there, but WK would be still faction leader.

And Necromancer/Sauron would be able to revive for WK some death icy dragon, as suggested here:


--- Zitat von: Halbarad am 26. Jun 2020, 21:25 ---Suggestion for his Ring mechanic: How about giving him the ability to mount on a flying cold/ ice drake? Could be epic, he would be the only Ring hero being able to fly (until Misty Mountains releases probably). Summoning Sauron probably wouldn't fit for Angmar since the faction would have two leaders then.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I can clearly imagine WK flying on dragon like NK in GOT, it would be unique and pretty cool:

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