29. Sep 2022, 23:43 Hallo Gast.
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Autor Thema: Isengard's Early Game, the return of the Scouts and Deathbringers  (Gelesen 842 mal)


  • Hobbit
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  • Beiträge: 4
Greetings, companions of Edain,

I would just like to share an idea regarding the Uruk Scouts, Isengard's early game and how Isengard can get a proper heroic unit.

When 4.5 was announced, I was shocked that the Uruk Scouts have been changed dramatically where they have been renamed Hunters and are now Isengard's semi-heroic unit, provided they survive long enough, and limited to four battalions. While their concept and current implementation is unique compared to other factions, I've always found that they seemed better as a special early game unit.

Their previous role in 4.4.1 seemed more fitting in my opinion in regard to both gameplay and lore. Their ability to toggle arrows made sense, both lore wise and in terms of gameplay (Boromir was felled in the books by "many arrows") and to compensate for Isengard’s lack of early game archers with the exception of Dunland axe throwers. And they didn't benefit from the Mineshaft bonus which was a pretty good way to balance the unit in terms of cost and their toggle ability can only be accessed at level 2. It made Isengard truly unique, having an early game unit that functions as both swordsman and archer and at the same time being the only faction without any heroic units as fully upgraded Uruk-hai were capable enough to take on lower level heroic units.

I understand that most players especially during skirmish or a multiplayer match would get access to the heavier Uruk-hai early on as much as possible and not only because of them having better health but also because of the Uruk pikemen. But I do have some ideas that could balance out the Scouts and Isengard’s early gameplay.

For the Scouts, I think a good way to balance them out is to slightly reduce their arrow damage but to slightly increase the range, though still less than elite archers like the Rangers (perhaps the same range as the Orc Archers). This will allow the player to have the option to use a ranged unit for harassment or support even later on in the game. For the Axe Throwers, I believe they already deal far greater damage, especially with their fire upgrade though their range could be reduced if it isn’t already short enough. This will also give the player the option of whether he/she would invest in versatile Scouts with longer range but weaker damage or short-ranged Axe Throwers that deal heavier damage in the early game. I believe the Scout's health and armor can be nerfed further so they don't become to powerful for an early game unit.

Regarding their upgrades, it can be the same from 4.4.1 with Lurtz being required to get them a banner carrier (Hunt Leader) and Ugluk to get a shield. However the Hunt Leader I believe can be purchased for 200, while Shields will remain 300. They can retain the Hunting Arrows ability.

As mentioned above, Isengard suffers from lack of pikemen in the early game thus my suggestion is to have the Dunland Spearmen be recruitable from the Clan Steading for the cost of 300, giving the player a chance to counter Cavalry rush in the early game while Uruk Pikemen are still unavailable. This of course would mean Wulfgar would lose his current level 5 power, but I do have a proposed replacement:

Level 5: Chieftain of Dunland – For a short time, Wulfgar summons his personal guard who will follow him and attack nearby enemies.

Wulfgar will summon 10 Elite Wildmen who will protect their Chieftain (the Plunderers could be used in this case but with different stats) that will surround him and attack enemies. As the Chieftain of Dunland, it’s not unlikely that he had men who were fiercely loyal to him and served as his personal guard. This is only a suggestion though and I’m sure other members can come up with a better replacement for his level 5 skill.

Regarding Heroic Units, Isengard’s lack of it made them unique and fitted the lore as they are meant to be an amassed, industrialized and uniformed army as I mentioned earlier. However, I think they can still be able to have access to a Heroic battalion that is still visually part of such their army but unique enough to stand out be regarded as Heroic:

The Uruk Deathbringers.

I know the vanilla design of the Deathbringers was atrocious, being just cheap, low quality textured version of the Create-a-Hero Uruk, but I believe they can be given a design that still has plenty of the standard Isengard gear but with enough visuals to help them stand out from the rest of Saruman’s army of bloodthirsty Uruks (perhaps slightly visually similar to the Uruk Captains and sharing some features of the Berserkers like plenty of White Hand markings or even severed heads of fallen Rohirrim stuck in poles hanging in their backs).

A little back story for the Death Bringers I came up with:

Among the early batch of Uruk-hai born in the caverns of Isengard, these blood thirsty creatures have served the White hand in its early battles against Rohan. Unlike the later batches that were bred quickly so Saruman can amass a large army on short notice, these Uruks were fully developed than the rest and thus more capable fighter,  yet are no less savage and fierce. While they did not participate in the hunting of the Fellowship, they partook in the Battles of the Fords of Isen and the Sacking of the Westfold. It is in these battles where they survived and distinguished their ruthlessness and ferocity, having slain many of the Rohirrim and becoming experienced in fighting horsemen. While some had become captains due to their experience and commanded the rest of Isengard’s army, some had formed the vanguard of Saruman’s forces and even lead the first charge in the Battle of Helm’s Deep.

Here are their proposed stats and skillset:

Cost: 1100 or 1400
CP: 90 or 120
Battalion size: 5 per battalion
Health: 1850
Requirements: Level 3 Uruk Pit, Forged Blades, Heavy Armor and Uruk Captains (the latter I believe since they are veterans as well or at least that’s how I see them)


Veterans of Isengard – Having fought against the legendary Rohirrim, the Deathbringers are experienced in fighting against cavalry. They only receive -25% damage from cavalry. At Level 7, they only receive -50% damage from cavalry. At Level 10, they are also immune to knockback. (Passive Ability).

Level 3: For the White Hand! – The Deathbringers are fanatically loyal to Saruman. They will gain +150 damage but lose -33% armor.

Level 5: Frenzy - The Deathbringers are driven into a blood-crazed frenzy by the scent of blood. Restore small amounts of hit points with every strike for a brief duration. At rank 10, they also knock enemies back with every strike.

The level 5 ability is the same from the current Uruk Hunters. These skills may seem too OP, especially since it makes them immune almost immune to cavalry and strong enough against most swordsmen but I believe they can be made more vulnerable to archers. Alternatively, their Level 3 and Level 5 skills may  can be made that they won’t be used simultaneously like the Rivendell Warriors’ skills. These are just the proposed skills and I believe the skills can be given better names or be given better skills altogether. 

I believe these proposals would help Isengard’s early gameplay and at the same time provide them with their own heroic unit that fits perfectly with the uniformed army of Uruk-hai. Anyway, I apologize for the long post and I believe other members can come up with better proposals or help improve this one but let me know what you guys think.

Thank you and keep up the good work!