[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Gondor Suggestions

Assistance in Times of Need

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Le Sournois:
Hello,

I don't know if the spell "Assistance in Times of Need" as it is is enjoyed by others but as far I'm concerned, I find the spell pretty boring and pointless.

Because it is always difficult to manage your army considering the command point limit, you will always try to make an army which is diversified and strong.

These units recruited in the signal fire are only basic units, some haven't got formations which is important because of the central spell. Yes, they are cool but 3 batallions instead of 2 doesn't make a big difference.

Above all, you must have room for more command points when you invoke your troops, that's mean that for this spell to be useful, you must beware of not being too strong, of not being too close to your command points limit. That's a bit tricky ! And you need map presence in addition to use it. For a defensive spell, I know some better ones.

This is why I would suggest a different system for Assistance in Times of Need.

One option is to make the troops come with all upgrades but I don't find it very fun.

I would suggest another option :

Assistance in Times of Need would unlock a choice between 2 upgrades. When you click on the signal fire, you could choose one of those 2 upgrades and you would be able to change your choice whenever you want in every signal fire you have.

The first upgrade is the same as it is already : having one additional troop recruited-without any change.
The second upgrade would read as follows :
"As long as there is enough free command points to welcome one batallion, the others will always be recruited"

This feature would be useful if you are already out of free command points available. You would not have an additional troop, but if you have only 70 free command points, you will be able to recruit 2 soldiers of Ringlo, 2 soldiers of the Lossarnach, and even if your signal fire have a lot of errand riders, 1 soldier of each fiefdom.

This way you can cheat command points. But that's not OP in my opinion. I would point to the fact that Isengard has a spell which is even greater to cheat command points which is "Isengard is unleashed". And this spell with the fiefdom would not be as easy to use : you would not have upgrades, and you would have to get errand riders and map presence to use it.

But that system in my opinion would be far more relevant for a 6 points spell in the left side of the spellbook.

Have a good day,

FG15:
I agree that the spell needs a rework. It currently has a couple of problems, of which you already listed some. Additionally, both tier 3 defensive spells of Gondor are really situational and require a specific tactic, one building Gandalf, and the other building signal fires. If a player doesn't want to get either it leaves him no good choice in that row of the defensive tree.


--- Zitat ---One option is to make the troops come with all upgrades but I don't find it very fun.
--- Ende Zitat ---
We had that in the past and it was far too strong.


--- Zitat ---The first upgrade is the same as it is already : having one additional troop recruited-without any change.
The second upgrade would read as follows :
"As long as there is enough free command points to welcome one batallion, the others will always be recruited"
--- Ende Zitat ---
That isn't possible.

The_Necromancer0:
Much like the "Black Guard Officers" passive of Angmar, Assistance in Time of Need should aim to make Fiefdoms viable in the late game. In addition, as FG mentioned there should also hopefully be a way to make the spell have a more general effect.

When you first start thinking about it there could be a few obvious possible options like:
- Assistance in Time of Need is now an active power, activating it causes all Errand Riders to generate at an increased speed
- Assistance in Time of Need is now an active power, casting it on a Signal Fire causes that signal fire to be instantly filled with Errand Riders to the max
- Assistance in Time of Need remains a passive, all signal fires now generate Errand Riders slightly faster

This can go on and on with many possible alternatives, but this doesn't really solve either of our problems:
- fiefdoms are still weak, you can spam more but you're just feeding your opponent
- the power is still very much fiefdom specific and doesn't have any applications if you don't have any signal fires
- spam was indirectly nerfed in 4.5 by reducing the command point limit, improving the viability of units in the late game should now focus on quality over quantity.

So ideally we need a power which grants benefits even without the signal fires but really peaks in power when you make use of signal fires.

Asssistance in Time of Need
Summon a defensive tower, protected by fiefdom troops. This tower can be upgraded with one of four upgrades:

* Duty of the Fat - Entrust the defence of the fort to Lossarnach, the tower is now guarded by a captain of Lossarnach, nearby troops deal additional damage against buildings. Axemen of Lossarnach are emboldened by your trust and gain +5% armour against melee up to +15%. If the tower is destroyed, the Axemen will be briefly demoralized by their failure and lose all leadership for 10 seconds.
* Might of the River-lord - Entrust the defence of the fort to the Blackroot Vale, the tower is now guarded by a captain of the Blackroot Vale, nearby archers now fire at an increased rate. Blackroot Vale archers are galvanised by your trust and gain increased +5% increased speed up to 15%. If the tower is destroyed, the Archers will be briefly demoralized by their failure and lose all leadership for 10 seconds.
* Bastion of the Sea-lords - Entrust the defence of the fort to Pelargir, the tower is now guarded by a captain of Pelargir, nearby troops slow down cavalry twice as much and deal additional trample revenge damage. Monster Hunters from Pelargir are renewed in their steadfast loyalty by the trust you have placed in them and gain +5% armour against ranged attacked up to 15%. If the tower is destroyed, the Monster Hunters will be briefly demoralized by their failure and lose all leaderships for 10 seconds.
* Defenders of the Crossing- Entrust the defence of the fort to the Ringlo Vale, the tower is now guarded by a captain of the Ringló Vale, nearby enemy troops are hindered in their progress losing some speed. Ringló Vale swordsmen are proud of the trust placed in them, they gain +5% damage up to 15%. If the tower is destroyed, the Swordsmen will be briefly demoralized by their failure and lost all leaderships for 10 seconds.
The numbers and effects can be tweaked, the specifics aren't that important to the concept. Also, yes, in this concept Lone Tower is removed and replaced by another power. But the basic concept is simple, you can summon a simple defensive building that just shoots at the enemy, you can then specialise that building to fit it to your need and with every gift, the fiefdom troops become stronger.

This is quite a departure from the original concept, shifting the support of the fiefdom troops from a primary function power to a secondary function. The primary function of the power is to now help you secure your lands.

Additionally, perhaps it could be made that if there are a certain number of forts present on the field gifted to a specific fiefdom then you can ask for aid at a discounted number of riders. E.g. with 5 forts gifted to the Ringlo Vale, Aid from the Ringlo Vale now only requires 1 rider (or is free with a longer cooldown or something). Or reaching that a certain number of forts could unlock additional abilities in the fiefdoms.

Visuals
Since the defensive tower is now quite a bit more important than the current design can do it justice I will take this opportunity to link back to my old suggestion concerning the model: https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31666.msg473439.html#msg473439

Also, the tower would be guarded by troops from all fiefdoms, upgrading it should spawn a bannered captain and additional troops from the fiefdom it has been upgraded too. It would be nice if the tower had a banner hanging from somewhere that would change with the upgrade to give some visual flair.

Finally, I created this concept based on the following assumption that any effects that increase the speed at which errand riders are generated would not work in the case where you spend all your errand riders due to how the system works. E.g if you increase the regeneration of riders this will not speed up the rate at which the first rider generates.

FG15:
That feels a bit too close to the Border Fortress in my opinion, by having another defensive fiefdom building that can be upgraded. I'd rather give those options directly to the Border Fortress.

tolgayurdal:
Greetings,

I agree most of points about its non-existance-yet best presentation in the game. My idea is making it a spellstore for its fullest potential.

Assistance in Time of Need (2pp): Target Citadel, settelement or outpost building gains a spell that summons 2 battalions of fiefdom units temporary (maybe with a timer?).

When buying it, the player can purchase following ones due to new store feature:


* Alert under Attack (1pp): Doubles the quantity of summoned battalions above.
* Beacons for Aid (2pp): Reduces calling troops time of Errand Riders and buys their Banner Carrier upgrades.
* Swan Knights in Gondor (2pp): Reduces training cost of Border Stronghold units both.
I am not sure the spell points or names or all of mini spells(?), the mechanism may provide a solution i hope.

Best regards.

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