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Neo-Black Speech and Neo-Orcish

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Fredius:
Gotcha, that's unfortunate. Thanks for the information regardless, it's very valuable xD.

Radagast der Musikalische:
Yes that’s very unfortunate.

It bugs me that I’m not even able to decipher the sentence „Ride to Gundabad“
It sounds like „Harsh gar bir Gundabadul“, but this makes no sense. This would translate to „Travel them already to Gundabad“. The imperative form is usually used without pronoun suffixes so it should simply be “Har bir Gundabadul”. So the question is what the middle part could mean. I also know that if Bolg speaks about Legolas according to the subtitles, he only uses “golug-dorg” = Elf-master/King instead of “undag golug-dorg” = son of the elf-master/king. Maybe dorg can also mean prince.
The only other things I’ve identified so far is “Golgai, ânai, khozdai (the mountain will be their grave), but even here it sounds like he uses the word “lôg” instead of “ord” meaning lake. Strange sentences… xD

Fredius:
Well here could be a solution to the "Ride to Gundabad":

If you listen closely he says "Harsh ga bir Gundabadul". He doesn't pronouce it as gar, as it lacks the "r" at the end. This gives me the impression that "ga" could be a grammatical variant to "gur", which according to Salo translates to "go quickly", or "hurry" in your translations. Combine this with the fact that "bir" is pronounced as "be-ar" by Azog in this sentence, although it could simply be his pronounciation of it? That seems strange to me because he does pronounce "biriz" properly. So going forward with that logic the translation to the whole sentence would be something like "travel quickly to Gundabad", keeping in mind the spirit that the Orcish language is supposed to be as simplified as possible.

Now as for Golug-dorg, I think Dorg is supposed to just mean master/lord, implying an Elf with a leadership role. In Orcish, whatever the hierarchical status, I assume everyone who is a leader can be called Dorg. Yet another example of everything being simplified :P.

I could of course be just grasping at straws haha.

Radagast der Musikalische:
I also wondered if he was just saying "ga" instead of "gar", but I just couldn't find a word in the list that becomes "ga" by inflection. Even if it is an adverb form of the verb "gur", which is rather unlikely because adverbs usually don't end in vowels, the problem remains that "harsh" makes no sense. The imperative form does not need subject pronoun suffixes, only object suffixes, e.g. "Gor" = "Kill!" but "Gorid" = "Kill him!". The suffix -sh(i) stands for he/she/it/they, but why would Azog address Bolg in the third person? And if he means he has to travel with someone it would rather be "Harid". Or should it be Harzga, har-z-g-a = travel-(for)me-you-? This is all very strange and Azog mumbling like this doesn't make it any better.

Regarding "golug-dorg": It really seems that Salo is simply using "dorg" here for any kind of leader or dignitary. Strangely, this again contradicts the fact that there is also an extra word for prince, "tung". So why not "golug-tung"?

Fredius:

--- Zitat von: Radagast der Musikalische am 27. Jun 2021, 11:18 ---I also wondered if he was just saying "ga" instead of "gar", but I just couldn't find a word in the list that becomes "ga" by inflection. Even if it is an adverb form of the verb "gur", which is rather unlikely because adverbs usually don't end in vowels, the problem remains that "harsh" makes no sense. The imperative form does not need subject pronoun suffixes, only object suffixes, e.g. "Gor" = "Kill!" but "Gorid" = "Kill him!". The suffix -sh(i) stands for he/she/it/they, but why would Azog address Bolg in the third person? And if he means he has to travel with someone it would rather be "Harid". Or should it be Harzga, har-z-g-a = travel-(for)me-you-? This is all very strange and Azog mumbling like this doesn't make it any better.

--- Ende Zitat ---
It's definitely brain racking! I honestly have no explanation to the -sh suffix. However the word "ga" is used by Bolg at Gundabad as well, when he yelled "ga har gar!" before the Orcs came out of the gates. Given the context I think the word being an abverb of "gur" would make the most sense, but of course I could be wrong. I will do some more thinking about this later!


--- Zitat von: Radagast der Musikalische am 27. Jun 2021, 11:18 ---Regarding "golug-dorg": It really seems that Salo is simply using "dorg" here for any kind of leader or dignitary. Strangely, this again contradicts the fact that there is also an extra word for prince, "tung". So why not "golug-tung"?

--- Ende Zitat ---
Tung actually means "price" not "prince" :P.

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