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Autor Thema: General Question?  (Gelesen 2352 mal)

dkbluewizard2

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General Question?
« am: 19. Sep 2021, 03:43 »
I had a quick and simple question for the Edain Team. With MM on the way, do you guys feel the Blue Wizards should be together in the same faction or in separate factions?

I know in my mind, I feel that the Blue Wizard's friendship dissolved. My only reason for this is that Tolkien describes the Blue Wizards failure by creating cults of magic. Now if they were still friends, wouldn't they have created one cult and ruled it jointly? This reason, I feel Pallando fell away in a manner similar to Radagast, and Alatar fell away in a similar fashion, like Saruman.

It would be cool to see Alatar in the Men of Darkness faction as a Ring Hero--I foresee him being like Grima, a counselor to the ruler of Rhun, but is secretly ruling everything.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #1 am: 20. Sep 2021, 11:04 »
We've got some ideas for them, but since they won't be part of MM, they are no priority at all. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily agree with your assessment that their friendship dissolved - Gandalf and Saruman got along well for a long time before Saruman fell, but they influenced the people around them in very different ways. The lands to the east and south of Mordor are vast, so it's not unlikely that they split up on their travels, but remained on good terms and only saw each other infrequently, thus leading to different cults for each of them.

FG15

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #2 am: 20. Sep 2021, 11:30 »
No matter whether they stayed friends or became foes, I think it would be most interesting to have them in the same faction. This way their similarities and divergences could be much better highlighted.

AmosVogel

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #3 am: 21. Sep 2021, 19:54 »
I still wonder if that official Edain map by dear FG is still in plans to be part of 4.6 ^^

Btw, dear Elendil said something about Saruman and Gandalfs friendship or at least relatonship (which id love to see in a campaing or a mission hehehe) and how even in good terms, they influenced very different the free peoples; now that war of the ring is being improved, could there be a  a feature called Political and war tactics where decisions made by the banner leaders affect Middle earth shape.

It would work as a tellatale game, but maybe with a maximum of three decisions driven only to two endings. Battles could be atm ^^

Have a nice day!
"Viva México"

FG15

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #4 am: 22. Sep 2021, 11:18 »
I still wonder if that official Edain map by dear FG is still in plans to be part of 4.6 ^^
Which one? [ugly]

Btw, dear Elendil said something about Saruman and Gandalfs friendship or at least relatonship (which id love to see in a campaing or a mission hehehe) and how even in good terms, they influenced very different the free peoples; now that war of the ring is being improved, could there be a  a feature called Political and war tactics where decisions made by the banner leaders affect Middle earth shape.

It would work as a tellatale game, but maybe with a maximum of three decisions driven only to two endings. Battles could be atm ^^

Have a nice day!
Probably Photti can answer that best, but I don't think it is possible this way, because War of the Ring is really restricted.

Nevertheless, such a kind of map is definetely on my ToDo list as a special map, I just haven't figured out a convincing mechanic.

I also moved the topic to Feedback and Discussion because that is the place, where it belongs. However, to keep the discussion open, I didn't merge it with Questions for the Edain Team.

AmosVogel

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #5 am: 22. Sep 2021, 19:26 »
This one ^^ :

https://www.moddb.com/members/fg15/images/palando-the-lands-of-the-east#imagebox

I see, a truly hard coded engine, nevertheless itll be interesting to read Photti's answer :)

Ohhhh hehe you are always ahead, dont you, dear FG. Btw, wouldnt shire's mission mechanic work?

I may write some dumb example using also Saruman and Gandalf's relation hehe:

Context: Saruman already imprisioned Gandalf (a huge map with divided into many squares where the condition are activated)

Saruman comes close and lurks into the palantir:

a. Sauron shows the armies of Mordor
(send atm Saruman to a battlefield filled with heavily armored mordor units - a non controlable Saruman dies)
Atm returns to the throne room for his next task. The player earns power points.

b. Saruman tries to resist
(send atm Saruman to face the nine in ghost forms - Control Saruman and defeat the nine)
Atm returns to the throne room for his next test of wil. The player earns money.

c. Feed Gandalf
(send Saruman to the pinnacle of Orthanc, parley with him)
Atm retuns to the throne room, confused. Saruman levels up.

----

A special feature is activated: a light appears , close to the throne, the player is free to move within the throne room, and goes there.

Atm Saruman is sent to Cirdans place, the five had just arrived and taking council with the Elf lord.

a. Speak with Cirdan 1° time:
Send Saruman to Mirkwood, a non controlable Saruman defeats spiders and 2 hordes of orcs.
Atm returns to the council room for his next task. The player earns power points.

b. Speak with Radagast 1° time:
Send Saruman to a white place, where he must find Radagast and bring him to the selected spot. Yavanna is sending him to take him to ME.
Atm returns to the council room for his next task. The player earns money.

c. Speak  with Gandalf 1° time:
Send Saruman to a tavern and drink wine with your friend lol ^^
Atm returns to the council room for his next task. Saruman levels up.


d. Speak  with Gandalf 2° time:
Send Saruman to the edge of Mithlond, to find Gandalf and face some diabolical wargs and corsair. Saruman sees Narya.
Atm retuns to the throne room, confused. The player earns power points.

----

Why i mention power points or money?

Easy, the tech tree as it is now fits just perfect. Two ways and a central spell. Being the good decisions much more expensive rather the evil ones. Buuut once you purchase any of the first spells, the counter spell row will be blocked.

Fe, Saruman could achieve easier his many colored form rather than ask for Gandalfs forgiveness. Giving the many colored a 10 cost and the forgiveness 16. 

In case of money, itll be useful on missions that will require resources.

And so on ^^

Forgive my example hehe just i love to write about Gandalf and Saruman hehe
« Letzte Änderung: 22. Sep 2021, 19:37 von AmosVogel »
"Viva México"

FG15

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #6 am: 23. Sep 2021, 00:28 »
That map was never planned to be official content of Edain, because it is far too buggy. But it was my closest try so far to create something in the direction you describe and a lot of decisions are supposed to have big consequences later on.

Yes, such a map would be possible. The dialog mechanics and in particular the choice system with A,B,C are already part of some maps.
The biggest problem with such a map would be that it would require a lot of detailed indoor models, because nothing inside f.e. the Orthanc exists yet, and the existing worldbuilder props aren't detailed enough for something like that.
How would combat be part of it, or what would be the advantages of leveling and money?

When I theory-crafted such a map, I always thought about Carn Dum and the Rise of Angmar, because it seems to offer the most interesting choices and content to explore.

dkbluewizard2

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #7 am: 23. Sep 2021, 06:26 »
We've got some ideas for them, but since they won't be part of MM, they are no priority at all. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily agree with your assessment that their friendship dissolved - Gandalf and Saruman got along well for a long time before Saruman fell, but they influenced the people around them in very different ways. The lands to the east and south of Mordor are vast, so it's not unlikely that they split up on their travels, but remained on good terms and only saw each other infrequently, thus leading to different cults for each of them.

Hey thanks to you and FG15 for answering, it gives me a little insight. Anyhow, like I said Elendis Cousin, it is just my opinon. As you know there is little to nothing written about the Blue Wizards--I was merely suggesting their friendship eventually dissolving due to them failing in their mission.

If the team considers this route, then their friendship would have most likely dissolved (eventually) that is not to say this happened in the Third Age--heck could have even happened in the 4th. You guys have thousands of years to play with. But I do appreciate yours and FG15's feedback. If you guys need any help or any ideas for anything--please let me know.

Take care and stay safe during these weird and crazy times.

--dkbluewizard
« Letzte Änderung: 23. Sep 2021, 07:00 von dkbluewizard2 »

Photti

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #8 am: 23. Sep 2021, 19:54 »
(..) now that war of the ring is being improved, could there be a  a feature called Political and war tactics where decisions made by the banner leaders affect Middle earth shape.
Such political aspects or other complex systems are not possible on the Living World. Basically, only limited movements and fights are possible. All other things must be integrated in the real time maps (most times without impact on the living world).
Danke an CMG für den Avatar und an Caun für das Banner!


dkbluewizard2

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #9 am: 25. Sep 2021, 05:09 »
So I like how everyone talked about the Blue Wizards staying in a single faction. I personally wouldn't mind seeing them with the Men of Darkness/Wild Men or another faction (Dorwinion?).

You don't have to answer which factions you think they would go with, but will they get a their powers reworked from 3.81? Because Alatar looks like a servant of Manwe with all those wind powers, and Pallando looks like a servant of Aule with all them earth powers...

Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

FG15

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #10 am: 25. Sep 2021, 10:59 »
If they will become a proper part of a faction, I expect that their powers will be reworked.
They have really amazing and unique concepts and it would be a shame to change them, but they were designed as a neutral power, without relations to any faction.
But if they are a regular part of a faction and have to fulfil a certain role, they will have to change probably.

Personally I like their magic direction. It feels fitting for magic that can be used in Deserts.

dkbluewizard2

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Re: General Question?
« Antwort #11 am: 26. Sep 2021, 03:50 »
If they will become a proper part of a faction, I expect that their powers will be reworked.
They have really amazing and unique concepts and it would be a shame to change them, but they were designed as a neutral power, without relations to any faction.
But if they are a regular part of a faction and have to fulfil a certain role, they will have to change probably.

Personally I like their magic direction. It feels fitting for magic that can be used in Deserts.

I liked the creativity to these magical attacks as well. Did you come up with these FG15? Or did someone else on the team? Anyhow, I thought these were really creative and I liked them--but from a lore perspective, Alatar is supposed to be a Chief of Orome's people, so I would think him to have more hunter/ranger like skills, but he is an angel after all, so I guess he could have wind powers--but I think being a hunter/ranger type is more analagous to him. Maybe the One Ring can make him into a Dark Archer or his transform him to using Wind Powers? I don't know, but I think it would be cool for Alatar/Pallando to be the Ring heroes with whichever faction they belong to, as they would be the only ones that would know what it is.