[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Rohan Suggestions

Grima Wormtongue, Traitor-King of Rohan

(1/1)

Watcher:
After some good feedback, I've edited the proposal. The original idea can be found in the spoiler at the bottom.


Below are the proposed changes:

Grima, using the power of the One Ring, breaks free of Saruman's control and takes over Rohan through sabotage and the command of his puppet-king.

Théoden succumbs to the venomous words of Grima and becomes his puppet. Grima takes control and Théoden follows him around like a passive creep. He cannot be freed as long as Grima has the Ring and must die before Glory of the King can take effect.

Traitor-King Grima has the following abilities:

- Traitor-King - Grima takes Eowyn for his wife against her will, and will not let her escape, yet will do everything he can to protect his love, even at the expense of himself. If Eowyn is near Grima, she will become invulnerable and gain an increased life-regeneration, but her movement speed, will be reduced by -50%, she will be unable to mount, and her ability cooldowns will be slowed by 20%. The Ring's corruption reduces Grima's movement speed by -50%. Theoden's mind may not be his own, but he still inspires his people. Nearby allied units will gain +15 armour and damage. (Passive ability)

I feel like a vital aspect is missing from the Grima Ring-Hero; his "love" for Eowyn. The changes to this ability seek to rectify that. Much like how Ring-Hero Glorious Theoden protects his family, Grima will do the same for his love. However, in doing so, Eowyn's greatest fear will be realised; she will be trapped in a cage of possession by Grima.

Gameplay wise, Grima could act as an area of retreat for Rohan's Hero-Killer, but she won't be able to leave it easily, and while she may still be able to fight against heroes, she will find it much more difficult with the slowed cooldown and inability to chase down wounded heroes.

The idea behind Grima's movement speed reduction represents his unwillingness to leave the safety of "his" kingdom, as well as the corruption the Ring would have on a weak-willed mortal such as him.


- Banishment to Exile - Grima banishes all heroes of Rohan who oppose his rule. If any Rohan hero besides Eowyn are near him they will suffer continuous damage. The very thought of Grima on the throne of Rohan fills the heroes of Rohan with wrath. Heroes of Rohan will gain +75% damage and be unable to be knocked back. If a hero of Rohan dies, they can be revived with 20% increased cost and will take 20% longer to revive. (Passive Ability)

This spell would no longer be single-target; instead, it would be a passive ability, making it far stronger than the original. However, in return, a fallen hero would be more costly and take longer to revive, perhaps representing Grima sabotaging the attempt much like how he might have done with Theodred.


- Grima's Taxes - Grima Wormtongue sends his thugs to extort taxes from the people of Rohan. The targeted resource building immediately produces triple recourses, but is damaged by 30% of its health and has half armour for 3 minutes.

A glance at what the rule of Grima might look like; a cruel king who demands payment from his subjects. Being able to use it on any recourse building shows the reach of his cruel hand.


- Grima's Traitors - Grima replaces the soldiers of Rohan with his own loyal thugs. The targeted Peasants or Rohirrim are replaced with Traitors of Rohan. Traitors will only last for a couple of minutes and do not benefit from Grima's rule unless they are bribed to stay. Bribing costs 200 resources. Once bribed, Traitors will stay permanently and be able to receive upgrades, and will gain a larger benefit from "Traitor-King" (+25% Damage and Armour).

Every king needs loyal soldiers, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. Grima has his traitors. While not initially loyal, they can be bribed into loyalty, allowing them to act as Grima's soldiers and letting them benefit from Rohan upgrades and Grima's leadership. Grima can now also convert Rohirrim into Traitors.


- Defend Me! - Grima orders his forces to return to the keep and defend him. For 30 seconds, all friendly units on the map become invulnerable and get a +30% speed boost, but they cannot attack for the ability's duration. Grima additionally gains +30% armour for the duration. Eowyn will also gain an increase of +30% to armour.

This is not a retreat from the battlefield as the old ability, but a call back to defend the king. This will allow you to protect Grima if you so desire it, to further benefit from his boons, though they are few. Along with this, Eowyn will gain an armour increase, though it will not benefit her if she is near Grima as she will be immune to damage.


I am most grateful to Elendil's Cousin, Halbarad, and The Necromancer for their ideas to improve this concept, though further improvement is always welcome.


Greetings from the pool, O' Edain Team and community!

I would like to propose a change to the Theoden the Corrupted Ring-Hero so that it feels more accurate to the lore and the character of Grima Wormtongue (a favourite of mine, even though he is undoubtedly a wicked person).

The proposed changes are not overly large nor powerful (at least in my eyes), as Corrupted Theoden is an inexpensive hero that can easily gain the Ring should it be found, and making his Ring-form too powerful would of course be very unbalanced. Besides that, both Corrupted Theoden and Wormtongue are ultimately men, and weak men at that, so they will be unable to wield the true power of the Ring.

Without further ado, lets jump right into it!

Below are the proposed changes:

Grima, using the power of the One Ring, breaks free of Saruman's control and takes over Rohan through sabotage and the command of his puppet-king.

Théoden succumbs to the venomous words of Grima and becomes his puppet. Grima takes control and Théoden follows him around like a passive creep. He cannot be freed as long as Grima has the Ring and must die before Glory of the King can take effect.

Traitor-King Grima has the following abilities:

- Traitor-King - Grima takes Eowyn for his wife against her will, and will not let her escape, yet will do everything he can to protect his love. If Eowyn is near Grima, she will become invulnerable and gain an increased life-regeneration, but her movement speed, attack damage, and ability damage will be reduced by -50% and she will be unable to mount. The Ring's corruption reduces Grima's movement speed by -50%. Theoden's mind may not be his own, but he still inspires his people. Nearby allied units will gain +15 armour and damage. (Passive ability)

I feel like a vital aspect is missing from the Grima Ring-Hero; his "love" for Eowyn. The changes to this ability seek to rectify that. Much like how Ring-Hero Glorious Theoden protects his family, Grima will do the same for his love. However, in doing so, Eowyn's greatest fear will be realised; she will be trapped in a cage of possession by Grima.

Gameplay wise, Grima could act as an area of retreat for Rohan's Hero-Killer, but she won't be able to leave it easily nor stay and fight in her invulnerable state. Of course, the effects of this ability, as well as the others, are subject to change, if this suggestion is added to the mod.

The idea behind Grima's movement speed reduction represents his unwillingness to leave the safety of "his" kingdom, as well as the corruption the Ring would have on a weak-willed mortal such as him.


- Banishment to Exile - Grima banishes all heroes of Rohan who oppose his rule. If any Rohan hero besides Eowyn are near him they will suffer continuous damage. The very thought of Grima on the throne of Rohan fills the heroes of Rohan with wrath. Heroes of Rohan will gain +75% damage and be unable to be knocked back. If a hero of Rohan dies, they can only be revived once Theoden is freed from his spell. (Passive Ability)

This spell would no longer be single-target; instead, it would be a passive ability, making it far stronger than the original.


- Grima's Taxes - Grima Wormtongue sends his thugs to extort taxes from the people of Rohan. The targeted resource building immediately produces triple recourses, but is reduced to half-health and has half armour for 3 minutes.

A glance at what the rule of Grima might look like; a cruel king who demands payment from his subjects. Being able to use it on any recourse building shows the reach of his cruel hand.


- Grima's Traitors - Grima replaces the soldiers of Rohan with his own loyal thugs. The targeted Peasants or Rohirrim are replaced with Traitors of Rohan. Traitors of Rohan cannot receive upgrades, but gain a larger benefit from "Traitor-King" (+25% Damage and Armour).

Every king needs loyal soldiers, otherwise they wouldn't last very long. Grima has his traitors. In addition to getting a greater effect from "Traitor-King", Grima can now also convert Rohirrim into Traitors.


- Defend Me! - Grima orders his forces to return to the keep and defend him. For 30 seconds, all friendly units on the map become invulnerable and get a +30% speed boost, but they cannot attack for the ability's duration. Grima additionally gains +30% armour for the duration.

This is not a retreat from the battlefield as the old ability, but a call back to defend the king. This will allow you to protect Grima if you so desire it, to further benefit from his boons, though they are few.

And here we reach the end of the suggestion! I'm certain not everything here would work well in the mod, and the idea may not even be very good at all, but I hope that it sparks some discussion on this seemingly forgotten Ring-Hero of Rohan.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
I've edited the formating of your post a bit to improve readability, I hope you don't mind.

Some interesting ideas in there, this is one of our ringheroes that could certainly be improved a bit.

Halbarad:
I like it! Its quite ironic how he can save the one he loves from death, but not himself!  [ugly]
The way you implemented these things sound vercy convincing to me. It doesn't even sound too strong for an 800-Ressources-Ringhero (if it would have been, I would have thought about giving him a system similar to the one of Lutz Farning where he would need to bribe people with money so that they would follow him).

So I'm in favor of this concept!

Would be funny if you could be able to kill Grima. I once made a concept for the three hunters in which (among other things) they would get "Wizard blast" as an ability, where Gandalf the White would appear and make a Wizard blast on the selected units. If both concepts would be implemented, Ring-Grima could be killed through the Wizard Bast of Gandalf the White and therefore Theoden could be freed without killing him (given that the central spell was already bought). The concept is here, you may have to put it into google translate if you are interested in the mechanic :D https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,36712.msg485273.html#msg485273

The_Necromancer0:
This is an interesting concept. Some food for thought:

Creating a hero which punishes the player is quite a balancing exercise, you want to force the player to constantly have to choose. To that effect, both the malus and the bonus have to be carefully tuned. I think there's a good start of a concept but at the moment the malus that Grima provides is too strong, it would not be worth it to get the ring, especially when Theoden Ednew is so good with the ring. I think reducing the malus from Traitor-king would help.


--- Zitat ---- Banishment to Exile - Grima banishes all heroes of Rohan who oppose his rule. If any Rohan hero besides Eowyn are near him they will suffer continuous damage. The very thought of Grima on the throne of Rohan fills the heroes of Rohan with wrath. Heroes of Rohan will gain +75% damage and be unable to be knocked back. If a hero of Rohan dies, they can only be revived once Theoden is freed from his spell. (Passive Ability)

--- Ende Zitat ---

I like the idea of transforming this into an AoE passive. It makes sense, with the full powers Grima would not have to scheme to slowly be able to exile heroes, he could do it instantly. However, I would change the downside of exile, as not being able to revive heroes on a permanent effect would be too much of a downside. I would opt for a softer downside, perhaps increased costs.


--- Zitat ---- Grima's Traitors - Grima replaces the soldiers of Rohan with his own loyal thugs. The targeted Peasants or Rohirrim are replaced with Traitors of Rohan. Traitors of Rohan cannot receive upgrades, but gain a larger benefit from "Traitor-King" (+25% Damage and Armour).

--- Ende Zitat ---

If these traitors are still temporary, allowing them to purchase upgrades could force another interesting choice onto the player. After all, Grima has full access to the armories of Rohan now...

I have other thoughts but I would like to see how this concept develops first.

Watcher:

--- Zitat von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 10. Okt 2022, 17:38 ---I've edited the formating of your post a bit to improve readability, I hope you don't mind.

Some interesting ideas in there, this is one of our ringheroes that could certainly be improved a bit.

--- Ende Zitat ---

I certainly don't mind having my post's readability improved, I only wish I'd have done it myself beforehand  :D

I'm glad you agree with the premise of my proposal  :)


--- Zitat von: Halbarad am 10. Okt 2022, 22:03 ---I like it! Its quite ironic how he can save the one he loves from death, but not himself!  [ugly]
The way you implemented these things sound vercy convincing to me. It doesn't even sound too strong for an 800-Ressources-Ringhero (if it would have been, I would have thought about giving him a system similar to the one of Lutz Farning where he would need to bribe people with money so that they would follow him).

So I'm in favor of this concept!

Would be funny if you could be able to kill Grima. I once made a concept for the three hunters in which (among other things) they would get "Wizard blast" as an ability, where Gandalf the White would appear and make a Wizard blast on the selected units. If both concepts would be implemented, Ring-Grima could be killed through the Wizard Bast of Gandalf the White and therefore Theoden could be freed without killing him (given that the central spell was already bought). The concept is here, you may have to put it into google translate if you are interested in the mechanic :D https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,36712.msg485273.html#msg485273
--- Ende Zitat ---

I thank you for your favour, kind sir  :)

I would like to see the system that you proposed, and I thought of a similar one (though it involved Eomer) that would allow you to kill Grima without sacrificing him to the enemy. I'm still not certain how to go about this, though.


--- Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Okt 2022, 00:35 ---This is an interesting concept. Some food for thought:

Creating a hero which punishes the player is quite a balancing exercise, you want to force the player to constantly have to choose. To that effect, both the malus and the bonus have to be carefully tuned. I think there's a good start of a concept but at the moment the malus that Grima provides is too strong, it would not be worth it to get the ring, especially when Theoden Ednew is so good with the ring. I think reducing the malus from Traitor-king would help.


--- Zitat ---- Banishment to Exile - Grima banishes all heroes of Rohan who oppose his rule. If any Rohan hero besides Eowyn are near him they will suffer continuous damage. The very thought of Grima on the throne of Rohan fills the heroes of Rohan with wrath. Heroes of Rohan will gain +75% damage and be unable to be knocked back. If a hero of Rohan dies, they can only be revived once Theoden is freed from his spell. (Passive Ability)

--- Ende Zitat ---

I like the idea of transforming this into an AoE passive. It makes sense, with the full powers Grima would not have to scheme to slowly be able to exile heroes, he could do it instantly. However, I would change the downside of exile, as not being able to revive heroes on a permanent effect would be too much of a downside. I would opt for a softer downside, perhaps increased costs.


--- Zitat ---- Grima's Traitors - Grima replaces the soldiers of Rohan with his own loyal thugs. The targeted Peasants or Rohirrim are replaced with Traitors of Rohan. Traitors of Rohan cannot receive upgrades, but gain a larger benefit from "Traitor-King" (+25% Damage and Armour).

--- Ende Zitat ---

If these traitors are still temporary, allowing them to purchase upgrades could force another interesting choice onto the player. After all, Grima has full access to the armories of Rohan now...

I have other thoughts but I would like to see how this concept develops first.

--- Ende Zitat ---

Thank you for your advice and feedback. I'll be sure to improve the suggestion  :)

Navigation

[0] Themen-Index