[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Mordor Suggestions

Shelob's rework : Torech Ungol, Shelob's lair

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Le Sournois:
I have always been surprised that in BFME in general and a lot of its mods, Shelob is particularly underestimated in terms of power.

There are 2 things that in my opinion would justify a bit of change about how she works :

-the first, Shelob doesn't serve anyonelse than herself. To invoke her alongside the forces of Mordor doesn(t quite fit the lore.

-the second is about her actual strenght. While there is a parallel drawn between Morgoth and Ungoliant in terms of power, There is also that between Sauron and Shelob. Here in the Two Towers : "So they both lived, delighting in their own devices, and feared no assault, nor wrath, nor ay end of their wickedness" (Shelob's lair chapter)
In terms of pure, harsh power of evil, there is a match. The difference is that one of these evil can spread, whereas the other is condemned to be consumed in the shadows.

With that in mind, Shelob would almost deserve tp be a tier 4 power. However that is not my suggestion. My suggestion is this one :

-Interverting the Reinforcment of Rhûn and Shelob in the spellbook to integrate Shelob in the defensive tree that suit her best, even if the Reinforcment from Rhûn are permanent.

The spell could be put only close to a main base of the player, a castle or a camp. The first time it is used, it would create a building which would be untargetable, and undestructible by anyone : Torech Ungol, Shelob's Lair.

This lair once appeared could not change location during the game.

Once it appears of the first time, Shelob would immediately come out of it but should be not controllable. She would instead attack any ennemy units within its range which would be quite good. She would have more speed, more attack speed also to be the impressive beast she ought to be, and of course a very high armor and a lot of hit points.

However, she would be on a short timer and after that time is finished, she come back  to her lair.

The lair of Shelob also would  have a cooldown button. After the cooldown is completed, Shelob would come out of her lair as soon as ennemies are wihtin her range of attack.

She also could be drawn of her lair by re-using the spell from the spellbook on the lair even if there is no ennemies within range, but that will also reset the cooldown of the lair.

The lair wiould get experience from nearby kills. The more victims who go within Shelob's borders, the less hungry she is and the more darkness she weaves.

Levelling the lair from level 1 to level 5 would reduce at each level the cooldown of the lair, allowing her to spawn more regularly.

If Shelob once spawn has no more ennemies within her range, she would stay motionless, unless allies come too close (but at far shorter range than ennemies) in case she wiould also attack allied units. But she would change target as soon as ennemies come back within her range, feeling a far more delicate flesh to feast upon.

Even if Shelob would be on a timer each time she come out of her lair, she would also have an health bar, and she would retain each time she spawns the health bar she had at the end of her last sortie, without being able to regain health by any way.

When she eventually dies, she could not be revived and the spell from the spellbook would be far less powerful. it would be able to be put on all the map and not just on Torech Ungol but would only spawn a standard broodmother.


I don't know if it is technically possible, but I liked sharing this suggestion.

The_Necromancer0:
When creating such a suggestion, it's important to touch on the existing role of the power within the faction and how your change affects that. Shelob is a powerful early game hero killer and backline diver for Mordor, she allows the faction to get rid of heroes, prevents their escape, can harass backline ranged units and siege. I don't see any of these capabilities in this rework so I think it would be nice for you to discuss why you don't think Mordor needs them or make some suggestions on how your proposal would make sure Mordor doesn't miss out on that niche.


--- Zitat ----the first, Shelob doesn't serve anyonelse than herself. To invoke her alongside the forces of Mordor doesn(t quite fit the lore.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Strictly speaking, it's true that the Mordor player controlling Shelob lorewise doesn't make the most sense. However, within BFME temporary summons have often been used to represent entities which the faction does not have full control on, such as the Wyrm or Balrog. This is not saying that this proposal shouldn't be implemented because of that but it's more of a note that there is a precedent to non-affiliated creatures being summoned controllable.

Finally here's a list of technical things that are impossible


--- Zitat ---But she would change target as soon as ennemies come back within her range, feeling a far more delicate flesh to feast upon.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Creep enemies cannot retarget unless the previous unit dies or falls out of range.


--- Zitat ---Even if Shelob would be on a timer each time she come out of her lair, she would also have an health bar, and she would retain each time she spawns the health bar she had at the end of her last sortie, without being able to regain health by any way.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Not possible. From a technical standpoint, when Shelob's timer expires she would die but die of an unsummoned death, different from dying by being killed. There is no way to persist health across deaths.

Le Sournois:
Hi the Necromancer,

You are certainly right in all of that. It was more like the idea of a fan of the mod rather than something I considered to be necessary.

I like to think of Shelob as a guard established near Mordor base, but the more important is the balance of the faction itself.

And without this possibility for her to came back with the same health as her precedent sortie, the idea of giving her more impressive stats while preserving the balance seems quite complicated.

Shelob is quite satisfying as she is even if my suggestion is trying to think her role differently.

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