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[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Gondor Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: Tienety am 22. Mai 2015, 13:33

Titel: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tienety am 22. Mai 2015, 13:33
ARNOR'S GANDALF by AulëTheSmith

Hello Edainers  :)
Here i want to present you my own proposal for Arnor's Gandalf. I brought back some of the old abilities from Ered luin Gandalf, such as blinding light and the Circle of fire. I instead leave pine-cones and fireworks as unique future for Dwarven version of Gandalf, in the name of uniqueness. Two new abilites has been crafted instead, which introduce a fundamental aspect of the Grey Pilgrim in game: his wandering and investigating character. These are "Revealing Spell" and "Emissary of hope". Take in cosideration that implemeting this concept could mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer, since there is a considerable detachment between the proposed abilities and the classical skill-set of Gandalf. That is also the reason why Gandalf was not an additional ring hero, i guess.

Furthermore, we could definely consider to make staff the only weapon for Gandalf. This would be both unique and time-consistent, since Glamdring was not found yet during Arnor's age. In the bottom of the post you can find some proposed staff animation.

EDIT: after having discussed deeply the sole-staff option, we concluded that can't be an adequate set of animation which can satisfy us completely. Both for possible technical problem as well as 'cause we would force to give up some original animation of Gandalf, which are very cool and unique. Also, since now no proper staff's animations was found for GAndalf on mount.
Therefore, in order to preserve the time consistency, we'll turn on the second option: an overhaul of the sword.

Being the literary man of the forum,as well as poet, Walküre crafted a lore background of our sword, placing it as a secondary gift from Cirdan along with The Ring of Fire:

Then, my gentle attendees of the thread, I think I may have come up with a decent background story for the said sword, in order to endow it with a proper essence; this is the case for many items in Tolkien's writings. We must live up to the tradition. Concerning the story, what if the blade were too a gift from Círdan. Not only did he give the wizard the Ring of Fire, but also something that would be of much avail in his perilous journey. Círdan had foreseen all the tribulations that Gandalf would have to face and therefore decided to offer him a secondary object of relevant note. The Guardian of the Havens see further than anyone else in Middle-earth and knows that the hands of the wizard shall wield a greater blade, unearthed thanks to fate and hammer of the Evil...

Zitat
Take the blade of the Foam-riders with thee, Grey Wizard. It is silver, light as our vessels that voyage beyond the blue, yet dreadful token for whom dareth hinder the will of the Western Lords. Thou shalt bear it, along thy hazardous journeys and whither thy mission is to lead thee, until thy hand shall wield a mightier craft, made by grievous exiled and borne by a king dwelling in legend.

In line with the stanzas of Walküre, a silver-like sword has been found on web. It is simpler than Glamdring and has a different style, even though it is of Elvish origin too. The brightness of the silver as well as the homogeneity of the elven style blade should give a different impact, such that it would be easy to distinguish it from Turgon's intended blade during game matches. Here the mentioned sword, along with the pictures where i found it (i advice you to look at them, there are very interesting designs in those drawings):

(https://image.ibb.co/c2Ej6w/Gandalfsword.jpg)

And the other ancient elven baldes (our chosen sword is the Voronwë one, on bottom picture at the second row):




Last but not least, also this new Gandalf will be affected  by Narya's influence, but this point need to be discussed deeply too. Here you can find the link to the orginal Ring of Fire proposal The Ring of Fire (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34267.msg451550.html#msg451550)

Anyhow, enjoy the concept  :). I'm looking forward your feedback as always.

Here you can see an old video showing the complete skillset of Gandalf the Grey for Ered Luin in Edain 3.8.1 :



(https://image.ibb.co/nssMHG/wizardblast.png)Level 1: "Wizard's blast"as Gondor Gandalf, with a palantir that shows the staff of the Grey Pilgrim.

(https://image.ibb.co/kK4JxG/Revealing_spell.png)Level 3: "Revealing Spell": Gandalf generates a magic wave that reveals stealth units as well as dissolving magic influence of surrounding enemy structures ( runes, poison, leadership etc.). As follow the .gif image from the sequence in the movie. I propose, as fitting animation, The wrath of winter animation of wizards in Chronicle submod (at 00:20). I just propose once this animation to Walkure for the Galadriel proposal, i think it would fit in this case also, cleaning it from the heat effect and Sauron's voice:





Level 5: "Mount/Dismount"

(https://i.imgur.com/LnAon8f.gif)Level 7: "Emissary of hope (on horse)": Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. His horse speed is increased by 40% and a veil of light surrounds the Grey Pilgrim, rendering all allied units fearless for a short period of time.

Implemented proposal of the wise and smart Walküre, it is indeed an optimal  reference of Gandalf wadering with his horse to investigate bringing to the sunlight the most deep and darkest secret. Also Gandalf the Grey is the one that suddently comes to the battlefield to help in difficult times. These elements are implemented by increasing of the speed and ispiring of allied units
 
(https://image.ibb.co/bYXMHG/Blinding_Light.png)Level 7: "Blinding Light"(on foot) as hobbit Version, but it stuns trolls too ("the dawn will take you all!!!") and deals some damage (spread, not concentrated like light of the Istari) also to general monsters around Gandalf.

(https://image.ibb.co/gVzOWb/flamesofanor.png)Level 10: "Flame of Anor" as hobbit Gandalf , the circle of fire of 3.8.1

FOR

1. AulëTheSmith
2. Walküre
3. Julio229
4. Gandalf7000
5. OakenShield224
6. Garlodur
7. Dain@
8. Isildurs Fluch
9. Tiberius Ogden


AGAINST


Edited by Walküre
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Der Leviathan am 22. Mai 2015, 13:46
Zitat
-All abilities from Ered Luin version of Gandalf
I think that isn’t a good idea because the Gandalf of Ered Luin based from the Gandalf of the hobbit. For example he can chuck burning acorns.

Zitat
-Gandalf will have only staff(Gandalf found sword Glamdring in hobbit story).
That's a very good Idea. I am for that.

Zitat
-Gandalf will have only staff(Gandalf found sword Glamdring in hobbit story).
I think this is also a good Idea. The voice of lotr doesn't match to the situation of Arnor (for example he is talking about Helms Deep and the war)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 22. Mai 2015, 14:12
Well,

it's true that Gandalf for Arnor is not unique, that he is simply a copy of Gondor Gandalf, although others heroes have the same or very similar roles, but their skills are completely different.
So Gandalf for Arnor should be mass slayer like Gandalf for Gondor, but with different or with minor similar skills. I suppose that special Gandalf for Arnor could be very attractive for this faction.

Yes, Ered Luin Gandalf was very unique mass slayer with very nice and lore accurate concept and many fans are or will be sad that he will be available only for some time in the Dwarvish spellbook.
Argument that Glamdring is later matter is correct, so that simply staff would be also nice change of design.

Some skills maybe aren't suitable for Arnor Gandalf, but argument of Tienety concerning hobbit isn't bad, he is well known like proposer who doesn't like additional and useless work so I suppose that he doesn't want from Edain team create completely new skill set. :P ... But for uniqueness would be fine to see some mix of Gondor and Ered Luin Gandalf and result would be Arnor Gandalf. xD

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ziqing am 22. Mai 2015, 16:54
Maybe we should delete Gandalf from Arnor and find some new designed heroes for his place, after all he basically did nothing during the entire history of Arnor
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 22. Mai 2015, 17:17
he basically did nothing during the entire history of Arnor

We know that he traveled there many times, either way I am not sure if we can find someone else, by the way it isn't purpose of this thread. xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tienety am 22. Mai 2015, 18:39
I think that isn’t a good idea because the Gandalf of Ered Luin based from the Gandalf of the hobbit. For example he can chuck burning acorns.

Yes, you're right, Burning acorns are not suitable. Maybe Gandalf could have a Mount/Dismount ability from Gondor's version. If you have better ideas, please tell me.   ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 17:51
By the way ... "Hobbit Gandalf" has brilliant dialogues/voice in comparison with "normal Gandalf" ... I know that Ered Luin Gandalf was one of the favourite characters in the whole game in the previous version. We should really reconsider his new role, because I think that currently he is very "unappreciated".
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ziqing am 12. Jul 2015, 18:07
By the way ... "Hobbit Gandalf" has brilliant dialogues/voice in comparison with "normal Gandalf" ... I know that Ered Luin Gandalf was one of the favourite characters in the whole game in the previous version. We should really reconsider his new role, because I think that currently he is very "unappreciated".
I do remember edain team has mentioned Arnor faction is not completed yet, there are still changes and other elements to be involved. The hero roles may change also, that's why I think we shouldn't consider Gandalf's role in isolation. I always think he shouldn't play a major role in Arnor, at least not like now a completely identical version as Gondor
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 18:24
Currently he is mass slayer for Gondor and Arnor. The role should correspond, but problem is that he has equal abilities although for rest of heroes is situation different. Nice and easy solution would be that Gandalf for Arnor will have former "Ered Luin Gandalf" abilities with some changes.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 12. Jul 2015, 18:29
I read like this idea about Ered Luin Gandalf. Though, most of all, I hope his Ered Luin self gets his staff from the first two Hobbit movies  :).
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ziqing am 12. Jul 2015, 18:42
Currently he is mass slayer for Gondor and Arnor. The role should correspond, but problem is that he has equal abilities although for rest of heroes is situation different. Nice and easy solution would be that Gandalf for Arnor will have former "Ered Luin Gandalf" abilities with some changes.
I don't think so, Arnor faction focuses on the history around T.A. 2000, all heroes and units in this faction are related to this chapter of history. While Ered luin's Gandalf is clearly based on his experience during Hobbits, there is a huge gap. And all abilities of Gondor Gandalf are related to his experience in LOTR. If there must be a role of Gandalf in Arnor, his abilities should be related to his experience when he firstly arrived at middle earth, the only thing I could recall is the ring Narya

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 19:12
Bearer of Narya is Cirdan ... in Edain universe  xD ... We wanted to adapt former Ered Luin Gandalf for Arnor because there is no additional work for Edain team, but yes, I agree that some skills aren't suitable, his abilities are more funny and for effect, but Tienety has nice argument for that:


By the way, we can discuss his skillset, why not  ;)
1) Wizard blast/Cranky blast - this skill is universal for all Istari
3) or 5) Mount - Gandalf is characteristic as a horse rider

and you can continue.  :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ziqing am 12. Jul 2015, 19:19
I am thinking about summoning the two blue wizard temporially, but I am not sure their plan for this two
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 19:33
Some times ago I wanted implement them to the spellbook, it's not against anything, but with Gandalf we should stay with his mass slayer role. Summoning is for unit supporters. By the way, summoning isn't too popular.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ziqing am 12. Jul 2015, 19:42
Some times ago I wanted implement them to the spellbook, it's not against anything, but with Gandalf we should stay with his mass slayer role. Summoning is for unit supporters. By the way, summoning isn't too popular.
Well he could summon his two coworker and let them conjure massive killing magic, wind and stone and all that. That's why it is hard to design very fitting and highlighted ability for Gandalf in Arnor, since his greatest moment is not there and then.
 
His ability in Arnor could be related to light and his Maiar's identity, I recall in his Olórin form he often show up as group light in first and second age. So one of his ability could be "Light of Olórin", once activated he becomes bright light for 15 seconds and all enemy units in a great range near him are freezed, trolls are turned into stone and killed immediately.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 19:57
once activated he becomes bright light for 15 seconds and all enemy units in a great range near him are freezed, trolls are turned into stone and killed immediately.
The same ability holds former Ered Luin Gandalf. xD
Yes, why not, it fits either way. :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Jul 2015, 22:15
I like the idea of changing a bit Gandalf, to make him fit better in the faction of Arnor :)
Gandalf is of course still an Istar by the time of Arnor, but he naturally has a far greater role in the following centuries of the Third Age.
He is relatively 'young' (speaking about his special and characteristic nature as an Istar) when the Witch-king establishes in Angmar (around 300 years old), and by that time he used to travel and wander a lot across Middle Earth, as all the other Istari initially did, to recollect part of his once infinite memory as a Maia, and especially to guard the World against a possible return of the Shadow in all its forms.
Gandalf, in particular, chose to travel mainly in the west of Middle Earth and to have the Elves as his most appreciated people to visit.
Anyway, all the Istari were not fully known yet by the Free People of the World, and preferred to act and operate in silence and discretion.

So, I support Gandalf being weakened a bit, both concerning his attack and powers.
I think, though, that some of his current powers are too crucial and characteristic to be changed.
His blast should totally remain, as the characteristic and basic power of the Wizards, along with his mount, given his 'wanderin pilgrim' nature; and I find also the 'Light of the Istari' very suitable for him, as he is an Istar, and capable of using a small part of his blessed powers as a Maia.
The other powers need to be changed, if we want to give him a more suitable role as a wandering counselor and support hero  :)

And, graphically speaking, it would be better if Gandalf didn't have a sword at all, and had the AUJ/DOS staff.


Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 22:41
Well, my suggestion is:
Gandalf for Arnor


So we will have the three different mass slayers (Gandalf for Gondor, Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves for some time) and each of them will be unique but his role will be the same. :)
Face-saving and very easy solution.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Saruman_the_wise am 12. Jul 2015, 23:57
Zitat
Well, my suggestion is:
Gandalf for Arnor



 



1) Wizard blast (not cranky, but the same blast like Gandalf for Gondor has)
3) Blinding light (former Ered Luin Gandalf spell)
5) Mount/dismount
7) Fireworks (the same ability)
10) Circle of fire (former Ered Luin Gandalf spell)

and he will hold only staff, because Glamdring is against lore (problem with time), his voice will be from Hobbit movies.

So we will have the three different mass slayers (Gandalf for Gondor, Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves for some time) and each of them will be unique but his role will be the same. :)
Face-saving and very easy solution.

My only problem is with fireworks instead of fire works he should have an ability to summon his bubble shield which would grant him crush and invulnerability for 15 seconds and take a way the random bubble pop up block for the arnor Gandalf so his ability would be similar to this ( go to 3:52 in the videos and you'll get an idea) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5KDGP-fMEA
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: CragLord am 13. Jul 2015, 01:46

What were those spells? Can someone describe them. xD (Don't familiar with older versions, so ask this... xD )
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Saruman_the_wise am 13. Jul 2015, 03:01
Blinding light stuns surrounding units, circle of fire literally makes a circle of fire around Gandalf witch burns enemies who come In contact with it
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 13. Jul 2015, 08:06
an ability to summon his bubble shield which would grant him crush and invulnerability
You know that similar ability (magic shield) Gandalf has automatically.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: jiraiyathegallent am 13. Jul 2015, 12:46
An excellent idea Tienety  8-) the staff without glamdring would be great and new powers?? hay whats there to say no to about new powers!  xD im thinking a level 3 ability where he unshrouds a wide area around him or detects all hidden units near him like he did in dol guldor in the hobbit with the flashy light bursts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQNe0DmSDdc  skip to 55 seconds and see,also adding that talk with it.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: CragLord am 13. Jul 2015, 13:26
Well, in that case I agree with all abilities except lvl 10 ability. Circle of fire is inappropriate in my opinion, maybe to change it with some circle of valar's light (ring of light) with same result. But if this is too complicated to implement because of graphical requirements, then circle of fire is ok. :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Saruman_the_wise am 13. Jul 2015, 17:01
an ability to summon his bubble shield which would grant him crush and invulnerability
You know that similar ability (magic shield) Gandalf has automatically.

Yes but the thing is it would be removed from arnor Gandalf like I said and it is different the bubble shield only blocks one attack while My one would block all attacks for 15 seconds plus grant him the cah crush power so he can deal extra damage as well
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tienety am 21. Jul 2015, 12:56
Well, my suggestion is:
Gandalf for Arnor


So we will have the three different mass slayers (Gandalf for Gondor, Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves for some time) and each of them will be unique but his role will be the same. :)
Face-saving and very easy solution.
i like how you improved my idea. I think this is much better. xD
I hope that one day we will see this version of Gandalf in Arnor.  8-)

Yes but the thing is it would be removed from arnor Gandalf like I said and it is different the bubble shield only blocks one attack while My one would block all attacks for 15 seconds plus grant him the cah crush power so he can deal extra damage as well
This is more suited for the heroes with tank role. I think that Thranduil already have similar ability. [ugly]
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ringbearer am 26. Jul 2015, 14:19
And don't forget that gandalf is also a ring hero :D . I like you ideas guys , i hope that ET would use something :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AmosVogel am 26. Jul 2015, 17:06
As far as i wonder, Arnor Gandalf should be more connected to his istari origin, I also wonder why no one noticed Gandalf also used his voice to achieve victory (of course it was not as powerful as Sarumans but he did) in a subtle way; also he could be more supportive... i propose these powers:

Wizard blast
Riding horse
Words of courage: For 30 seconds, he makes soldiers +15% stronger in armor & resistant to fear.
Pipe aroma: For 10 seconds, he will smoke & heal himself or nerby heroes  :) 
Blinding light (he will hit an small radius making a earthquake - the same time the light will blind his foes)

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 26. Jul 2015, 17:12
As far as i wonder, Arnor Gandalf should be more connected to his istari origin, I also wonder why no one noticed Gandalf also used his voice to achieve victory (of course it was not as powerful as Sarumans but he did) in a subtle way; also he could be more supportive... to be more  have these powers:

Wizard blast
Riding horse
Words of courage: For 30 seconds, he makes soldiers +15% stronger in armor & resistant to fear.
Pipe aroma: For 10 seconds, he will smoke & heal himself or nerby heroes  :) 
Blinding light (he will hit an small radius making a earthquake - the same time the light will blind his foes)

Pipe aroma  :)

Unusual but very particular idea  8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 26. Jul 2015, 18:32
also he could be more supportive...
No.  xD
It isn't possible change his "mass slayer role" otherwise will be problem with roles for Arnor, again.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Hal9000 am 2. Aug 2015, 18:29
I'm really disappointed that they have removed the fire ring that burned enemies around Gandalf, it was a very spectacular spell, I'd really like it to be available for Gandalf in the Arnor faction.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 2. Aug 2015, 18:44
Welcome on Modding union! xD

Well, I found another argument for different version of Gandalf, which will be available in Arnor. His aspect to fire spells will better correspond to his Dark ring form, because Dark Gandalf uses fire spells as well. ;)

It's logical, because his white form isn't in Arnor, so we should focus on Grey Gandalf and his dark ring form.

Well, my suggestion is:
Gandalf for Arnor


So we will have the three different mass slayers (Gandalf for Gondor, Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves for some time) and each of them will be unique but his role will be the same. :)
Face-saving and very easy solution.

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Hal9000 am 2. Aug 2015, 21:13
Thanks Tiberius! I'm "Frodon" on Moddb, Your ideas are very interesting, Gandalf without his sword would be quite original, these powers would be perfect, but what do you think about a passive spell like bubble shield? A new spell that repels enemies every 2 minutes in a tiny radius (without doing damages) or maybe something else.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 2. Aug 2015, 21:17
passive spell like bubble shield?
Gandalf automatically has white Istari shield against monsters and heroes. And "bubble shield" will have Thranduil. 8-|
Yes, he is tank, but Gandalf is mass slayer, so such spell (as a permanent skill) wouldn't be effective for him.

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Aug 2015, 22:50
passive spell like bubble shield?
Gandalf automatically has white Istari shield against monsters and heroes. And "bubble shield" will have Thranduil. 8-|
Yes, he is tank, but Gandalf is mass slayer, so such spell (as a permanent skill) wouldn't be effective for him.

I'm not so sure that Thranduil is very skilled in Magic as other Wizards or High Elves...  ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 2. Aug 2015, 23:04
Oh, that's no speculation from TiberiusOgden but an already confirmed ability from Thranduil. Should be in the second Lothlorien Update which came out like half a year ago.
Otherwise, I know the team likes Gandalf's current spells, but I agree that the Arnor Gandalf is a bit of an anachronism with his Glamdring, so at least one new spell should be created for him -I however do not think, that a more or less copy of the Ered Luin Gandalf is appropriate.
I'm also going to ask, does anyone here know the good old LotR action-RPG "The Return of the King". I'm thinking of giving Gandalf 1 or 2 spells from this game, namely "Flame of Ûdun" (basically our "Ring of Fire") and an offensive shield bubble -basically it would be active a short time after a short channel and would then damaged and knock back nearby enemies while absorbing arrows.

So my idea would be like (if I might use your idea, TiberiusOgden):

1) Wizard blast
3) Blinding light
5) Mount/dismount
7) Light of the Istari (this ability should be included in my opintion -without "Glamdring" his offensive capabilities against lone strong targets is already weakened substantially, so taking away his second single target spell would be too much)
10) Circle of fire (weak "Word of power" with faster recharge)

and passiveley he wouldn't use the defensive shield of the other Gandalfs, but the offensive version, described above.


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 2. Aug 2015, 23:35
Oh, that's no speculation from TiberiusOgden but an already confirmed ability from Thranduil. Should be in the second Lothlorien Update which came out like half a year ago.
I suppose that DieWalkure knows about it. ;)

more or less copy of the Ered Luin Gandalf is appropriate
According to my experience from Moddb.com - Ered Luin Gandalf (or better say - his skills) were extremely popular for many users, moreover such skillset quite fits there.

I'm also going to ask, does anyone here know the good old LotR action-RPG "The Return of the King". I'm thinking of giving Gandalf 1 or 2 spells from this game, namely "Flame of Ûdun" (basically our "Ring of Fire") and an offensive shield bubble -basically it would be active a short time after a short channel and would then damaged and knock back nearby enemies while absorbing arrows.
I know that game very well, but still I don't understand why we should change his role from mass slayer to tank role. Arnor already has problem with hero killer and this would be second problem with roles. xD
His passive "bubble" is well known utility from the BFME and I  think that it should be unified for all three "Gandalfs".

Light of the Istari (this ability should be included in my opintion -without "Glamdring" his offensive capabilities against lone strong targets is already weakened substantially, so taking away his second single target spell would be too much)
Please no Istari light.  :P
Istari light I removed immediately. Why? - Because it always reminds Gandalf's strike against Ringwraiths in front of Minas Tirith. It's iconic for Gondor faction, by the way - Istari light is not characteristic for Wizards, I think that more characteristic skill is wizard blast (which have Saruman, Gandalf and even Radagast).
We have chosen fireworks because it has nice animation but mainly - we can justify it by fact, that in Arnor faction are hobbits and fireworks is logically for them. ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Aug 2015, 23:50
Agree with your suggestion Tiberius, but must admit that Flame of Ûdun animation in RPG game was really nice. Circle of fire as Gandalf's ability could never have name in which is implemented word  Ûdun, but if it is possible maybe to implement that staff animation. :)
About other spells, I don't have at mind any change. :P :)
(Earlier I suggested something about ring of light insted circle of fire, with same result, but it is justified (as you mentioned earlier) to remove everything about Istari light from Gray Wizard in Arnor. :) )
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Aug 2015, 00:04
Oh, that's no speculation from TiberiusOgden but an already confirmed ability from Thranduil. Should be in the second Lothlorien Update which came out like half a year ago.
I suppose that DieWalkure knows about it. ;)


 :P

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 21:22
name the lvl 10 skill i am the servant of the secret fire it should be a fire like blast like word of power little bit weaker and faster cd
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 8. Aug 2015, 20:41
So "Flame of Ûdun" instead of "Circle of fire" but with the same effect? Honestly - there must be the same effect for Gandalf mass slayer role.
Why not. Flame of Ûdun is very nice title and reference to the book. ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Aug 2015, 20:56
So "Flame of Ûdun" instead of "Circle of fire" but with the same effect? Honestly - there must be the same effect for Gandalf mass slayer role.
Why not. Flame of Ûdun is very nice title and reference to the book. ;)

 i think balrog is the Flame of Ûdun  i dont think thats it fitts for gandalf to have a skill named  Flame of Ûdun  not the good gandalf i think it fitts better for gandalf corrupted
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Aug 2015, 21:00
So "Flame of Ûdun" instead of "Circle of fire" but with the same effect? Honestly - there must be the same effect for Gandalf mass slayer role.
Why not. Flame of Ûdun is very nice title and reference to the book. ;)

 i think balrog is the Flame of Ûdun  i dont think thats it fitts for gandalf to have a skill named  Flame of Ûdun  not the good gandalf i think it fitts better for gandalf corrupted

Exactly, the Flames of Udûn are the Balrogs.
Udûn is Utumno in Sindarin  :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 8. Aug 2015, 21:01
What about "Flame of Anor" ? ..  8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Aug 2015, 21:14
What about "Flame of Anor" ? ..  8-)

It's definitely better  :)
'Anor' is the Sun, thus the remnant of the golden Light of Laurelin, one of the Two Trees  ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: CragLord am 8. Aug 2015, 21:41
Flame of Anor fits nicely.
P.S. I am just suggested about staff animation when Arnor Gandalf casts this spell :
Maybe I first here wrote Flame of Ûdun, but this name has no sense as you all concluded already.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Aug 2015, 21:45
What about "Flame of Anor" ? ..  8-)

It's definitely better  :)
'Anor' is the Sun, thus the remnant of the golden Light of Laurelin, one of the Two Trees  ;)
flame of anor sounds good  :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 22:21
Or... flame of Narya.  8-|
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 8. Aug 2015, 22:23
flame of Narya.  8-|
No, Cirdan is bearer of Narya in Edain universe. Three elvish rings are really elvish. :P
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Aug 2015, 22:32

Maybe I first here wrote Flame of Ûdun, but this name has no sense as you all concluded already.

Then, we can absolve Tiberius, and convey all our criticism to you, CragLord  :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 22:34
Oh right, flame of Arnor then. And i think, this version of Gandalf, should have boost to moralne, for all units and heroes. ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 8. Aug 2015, 22:41
this version of Gandalf
Gandalf for Arnor must be mass slayer like Gandalf for Gondor. Roles should correspond. We are only trying to find different skills for him in order to be more attractive and different than his Gondor counterpart. :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 22:44
I know, but for now, he has only 3 skills, it can be implemented two more! And Gandalf's greatest power is power of growing hope ang courage in hearts! So some kind of leadership will fit him. ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 8. Aug 2015, 22:48
he has only 3 skills
Just check the first page.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 8. Aug 2015, 23:00
Oh, right. I was about to do it, but suddenly forgot it. :P

Done! And... i don't think he should have a horse in Arnor version. It's just... bites with my imagining of Arnor's "Grey Wanderer" as he was called.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Aug 2015, 23:05
Oh, right. I was about to do it, but suddenly forgot it. :P

Done! And... i don't think he should have a horse in Arnor version. It's just... bites with my imagining of Arnor's "Grey Wanderer" as he was called.

But Gandalf's nature, at that time, was definitely closer to the one of a Wandering Pilgrim, compared to his in the War of the Ring.
He had been just arrived in Middle Earth at that time, and, as for all the Istari, did great and long journeys through the World, to somehow recollect part of his past Knowledge.

GANDALF NEEDS A HORSE  8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Aug 2015, 23:12
Oh, right. I was about to do it, but suddenly forgot it. :P

Done! And... i don't think he should have a horse in Arnor version. It's just... bites with my imagining of Arnor's "Grey Wanderer" as he was called.

But Gandalf's nature, at that time, was definitely closer to the one of a Wandering Pilgrim, compared to his in the War of the Ring.
He had been just arrived in Middle Earth at that time, and, as for all the Istari, did great and long journeys through the World, to somehow recollect part of his past Knowledge.

GANDALF NEEDS A HORSE  8-)

agree walk a horse is a must have for gandalf
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 22. Aug 2015, 12:01
Gandalf most certainly should have a Mount/Horse cuz we all know who is his Horse and it is something iconinc for Gandalf to have "that" Horse! :) I think that the Grey Piligrim deserves his stead no matter in which Faction he is,the stead should be there! :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 22. Aug 2015, 12:29
You know that shadowfax was a 'present' ot Theoden while the war of the ring and he did NOT have it at the time of Arnor?^^
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 22. Aug 2015, 12:42
On that I know and agree but my point was that he is called the Grey Peligrim and is know for all his travels around Middle Earth so I tihnk he had a Horse most of the time,I do not think that he travels around the Globe on foot forfew thousand years :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 22. Aug 2015, 13:08
who knows maybe he teleports
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 22. Aug 2015, 13:17
 :D :D :D :D
If he could do such Magics and Spell I am sure he would have used them in many other more important ocasions than just going to a visit somewhere :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 22. Aug 2015, 13:22
well i think so too but hay he appears in bilbo s house so fast
??? xD xD xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Aug 2015, 13:32

who knows maybe he teleports

well i think so too but hay he appears in bilbo s house so fast
??? xD xD xD

Not even the mightiest Valar (the Aratar) could use such powers, manipulating Time and Space.
Gandalf's past powers and Knowledge were restrained by the Valar at his arrival in Middle Earth as an Istar, as for all the other Wizards; it is highly unlikely that he could possess this ability.

Try again, Mr. Gray  :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 22. Aug 2015, 16:12
What Walkure said! :D :D :D :D
But now back on topic I think Gandalf should have a Mount in Arnor too! :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 22. Aug 2015, 21:21
Good point from Gnomi. It is the same case like Glamdring issue - I suggest that horse for  "Arnor Gandalf" should have different colour, brown, black, something like that in order to avoid problem with "white horse" ...  ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 22. Aug 2015, 22:09
hmm gandalf the gray always had a brown horse
in gondor he has a brown horse too.
the white horse comes out when you upgrade him to The White Rider
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 25. Aug 2015, 22:46
I've got idea!
Maybe some kind of carriage? Like this:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a8/ea/45/a8ea451dd62a0528538eae0a40b39151.jpg

:D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 26. Aug 2015, 07:05
man i dont know what to think kinda looks like  a good idea xD :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 30. Aug 2015, 17:47
Maybe some kind of carriage? Like this:


Yes! It's pretty cool. xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 30. Aug 2015, 18:58
Maybe some kind of carriage? Like this:


Yes! It's pretty cool. xD


It would be a shame for the Order of the Istari  :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 30. Aug 2015, 20:23
i think not xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Linhir am 30. Aug 2015, 20:30
I also think, that it fits to Gandolf Grey more than just horse.  xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 8. Sep 2015, 19:46
OMG it would be so cute and different for Gandalf to have a carriage hahahahaha

So, I was going to suggest that Dwarf-faction Gandalf should have the Word of Power spell same as Gondor Gandalf, as this scene from An Unexpected Journey is exactly that spell (not to say it's one of my favourite scenes):

But I realise beforehand that people will argue it's too powerful a spell for a summoned 7 point hero. So I had a better idea, I suggest that, when summoned, Dwarf-faction Gandalf appears in the center of a smaller range Word of Power spell effect. And then you hear the lines "Take up arms. Fight! FIGHT!"
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 8. Sep 2015, 22:19
I like the idea of the carriage, but I think Gandalf for Ered Luin and Arnor should be more focused on the Hobbit movies, both in abilities and visually  ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 8. Sep 2015, 22:29
I LOVE YOUR IDEA MAN (NetoD20)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 9. Sep 2015, 01:17
@Gandalf the Gray I'm happy you do, man ^__^
Hope more people like it too
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: CragLord am 9. Sep 2015, 02:13
It is nice suggestion, I personally like it!  8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 14:59
I agree it is nice idea and slightely nerfed and it will make really cool apperance for Gandalf!I am for that idea :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Sep 2015, 15:17
i hope the team will make this happen
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tienety am 9. Sep 2015, 15:25
I like this idea with carriage. i hope that this is technically possible. 8-)

Great idea. 8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 9. Sep 2015, 18:24
Zitat
But I realise beforehand that people will argue it's too powerful a spell for a summoned 7 point hero. So I had a better idea, I suggest that, when summoned, Dwarf-faction Gandalf appears in the center of a smaller range Word of Power spell effect. And then you hear the lines "Take up arms. Fight! FIGHT!"
Sounds like a really nice idea to me. I'll ask the rest of the team about their opinion. :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 9. Sep 2015, 18:38
Thank you Gnomi for the reply and when I say this I think I say it from the name of all us who supported the idea that we are grateful and awaiting with excitement the answer from the rest if the Team! :-)
Greetings! :-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 9. Sep 2015, 18:45
Yes, thank you Gnomi for answering :D
And thanks to the people who supported it
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Sep 2015, 18:54
Yes, thank you Gnomi for answering mmate but you did not tell what do you think about the carriage xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 10. Sep 2015, 01:07
So I had a better idea, I suggest that, when summoned, Dwarf-faction Gandalf appears in the center of a smaller range Word of Power spell effect. And then you hear the lines "Take up arms. Fight! FIGHT!"


I like this proposal as well  :)

Very unique and Hobbit-ish.
Perfect for this specific spell of the Dwarves  :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: lotr1997 am 28. Okt 2015, 22:30
I really like this ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 27. Dez 2017, 23:28
Hello Edainers  :)
Here i want to present you my own proposal for Arnor's Gandalf. I brought back some of the old abilities from Ered luin Gandalf, such as blinding light and the Circle of fire. I instead leave pine-cones and fireworks as unique future for Dwarven version of Gandalf, in the name of uniqueness. Two new abilites has been crafted instead, which introduce a fundamental aspect of the Grey Pilgrim in game: his wandering and investigating character. These are "Revealing Spell" and "Emissary of hope". Take in cosideration that implemeting this concept could mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer, since there is a considerable detachment between the proposed abilities and the classical skill-set of Gandalf. That is also the reason why Gandalf was not an additional ring hero, i guess.

Furthermore, we could definely consider to make staff the only weapon for Gandalf. This would be both unique and time-consistent, since Glamdring was not found yet during Arnor's age. In the bottom of the post you can find some proposed staff animation.

EDIT: after having discussed deeply the sole-staff option, we concluded that can't be an adequate set of animation which can satisfy us completely. Both for possible technical problem as well as 'cause we would force to give up some original animation of Gandalf, which are very cool and unique. Also, since now no proper staff's animations was found for GAndalf on mount.
Therefore, in order to preserve the time consistency, we'll turn on the second option: an overhaul of the sword.

Being the literary man of the forum,as well as poet, Walküre crafted a lore background of our sword, placing it as a secondary gift from Cirdan along with The Ring of Fire:

Then, my gentle attendees of the thread, I think I may have come up with a decent background story for the said sword, in order to endow it with a proper essence; this is the case for many items in Tolkien's writings. We must live up to the tradition. Concerning the story, what if the blade were too a gift from Círdan. Not only did he give the wizard the Ring of Fire, but also something that would be of much avail in his perilous journey. Círdan had foreseen all the tribulations that Gandalf would have to face and therefore decided to offer him a secondary object of relevant note. The Guardian of the Havens see further than anyone else in Middle-earth and knows that the hands of the wizard shall wield a greater blade, unearthed thanks to fate and hammer of the Evil...

Zitat
Take the blade of the Foam-riders with thee, Grey Wizard. It is silver, light as our vessels that voyage beyond the blue, yet dreadful token for whom dareth hinder the will of the Western Lords. Thou shalt bear it, along thy hazardous journeys and whither thy mission is to lead thee, until thy hand shall wield a mightier craft, made by grievous exiled and borne by a king dwelling in legend.

In line with the stanzas of Walküre, a silver-like sword has been found on web. It is simpler than Glamdring and has a different style, even though it is of Elvish origin too. The brightness of the silver as well as the homogeneity of the elven style blade should give a different impact, such that it would be easy to distinguish it from Turgon's intended blade during game matches. Here the mentioned sword, along with the pictures where i found it (i advice you to look at them, there are very interesting designs in those drawings):

(https://image.ibb.co/c2Ej6w/Gandalfsword.jpg)

And the other ancient elven baldes (our chosen sword is the Voronwë one, on bottom picture at the second row):




Last but not least, also this new Gandalf will be affected  by Narya's influence, but this point need to be discussed deeply too. Here you can find the link to the orginal Ring of Fire proposal The Ring of Fire (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34267.msg451550.html#msg451550)

Anyhow, enjoy the concept  :). I'm looking forward your feedback as always.

Here you can see an old video showing the complete skillset of Gandalf the Grey for Ered Luin in Edain 3.8.1 :



(https://image.ibb.co/nssMHG/wizardblast.png)Level 1: "Wizard's blast"as Gondor Gandalf, with a palantir that shows the staff of the Grey Pilgrim.

(https://image.ibb.co/kK4JxG/Revealing_spell.png)Level 3: "Revealing Spell": Gandalf generates a magic wave that reveals stealth units as well as dissolving magic influence of surrounding enemy structures ( runes, poison, leadership etc.). As follow the .gif image from the sequence in the movie. I propose, as fitting animation, The wrath of winter animation of wizards in Chronicle submod (at 00:20). I just propose once this animation to Walkure for the Galadriel proposal, i think it would fit in this case also, cleaning it from the heat effect and Sauron's voice:





Level 5: "Mount/Dismount"

(https://i.imgur.com/LnAon8f.gif)Level 7: "Emissary of hope(on horse)": Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. His horse speed is increased to 40%, a veil of light sorround the Grey pilgrim which makes allied units fearless for a short period of time.

Implemented proposal of the wise and smart Walküre, it is indeed an optimal  reference of Gandalf wadering with his horse to investigate bringing to the sunlight the most deep and darkest secret. Also Gandalf the Grey is the one that suddently comes to the battlefield to help in difficult times. These elements are implemented by increasing of the speed and ispiring of allied units
 
(https://image.ibb.co/bYXMHG/Blinding_Light.png)Level 7: "Blinding Light"(on foot) as hobbit Version, but it stuns trolls too ("the dawn will take you all!!!") and deals some damage (spread, not concentrated like light of the Istari) also to general monsters around Gandalf.

(https://image.ibb.co/gVzOWb/flamesofanor.png)Level 10: "Flame of Anor" as hobbit Gandalf , the circle of fire of 3.8.1

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 31. Dez 2017, 02:49
Thank you for having revived the thread. I quite think it's needed, given the premise of the future patch around diversity and differentiation in the game. This is also an interesting topic that, as you may have noticed, goes back to the primeval times of the English Community and no final solution had been found so far. The actual discussion froze and I haven't heard anything about it for very long time. I hope we shall truly find a satisfying compromise among all divergent views, although I saw that you've already accomplished much yourself and this pleases me. I will then try to be the briefest possible with my personal response :)

All in all, I like the rationale of the concept: endowing Gandalf with a different kind of characterisation that is to be a proper feature of the faction. In so doing, you have rightly decided to focus on the whole theme revolving around fire. And it is a brilliant choice, I say. Therefore, I agree with most of the abilities you have put forward and I believe that this new character will surely help maximise the role of the hero in this precise context (quite limited and constrained, if I may say so). Only, the sole aspect I'm still missing is what is to be of the wizard's sword: is he going to keep a sword (a generic one, even though the model is the same as the one of Glamdring)? Or are we going to jettison the idea of a blade and go for an unconventional new animation for him with just the staff (picking one from the available possibilities at hand)? I feel like debating the sword issue a little bit more thoroughly.

Going through the abilities in detail, I really appreciated what you did with the hypothetical level-three feature; it gives not only a very pleasant Hobbit-related touch, but it also relates to the foremost nature of Wizards: their inquisitive interest into the happenings of the vast world and the usual proclivity of Gandalf towards conducting the most diverse sort of enquiries. And on the present structure, I think that the proposed level-five ability should be replaced (the ultimate power already deals with the theme of the Sacred Fire) by another ability which I have taken the liberty to craft. It is just a rough idea still, yet I'm quite certain that we would proceed in the right direction. I have named it Emissary of Hope and it was fashioned on those famous pillars I mentioned above: the true essence of the Istari, since all of them had journeyed immense distances after their arrival in Middle-earth, visiting the furthest places of the known world, recollecting part of the knowledge they had been deprived of and making sure that the order of the region was well preserved. The Grey Pilgrim, in particular, is the iconic figure that perfectly embodies this wanderer/traveller-type role, for he did have the role of an emissary from the West, sent to confront the revenant Evil (not facing the threat directly, but via the inspiring of hope in people's hearts). That's why I guess that this suggestion might be more in tune with the case, taking also into account the very timeline of the faction. As I have envisaged things, it is to be his level-seven ability, because we also need his mount at level 5. Blinding Light had better leave space for this new configuration of his power set, in that the quality of both light and fire are easily comprehended in the ultimate skill.

These are the ideas I have been pondering about unto the present moment: it may be activated only on horse and it will make the wizard shine of a bright radiance, veiled and clothed with light. His speed is temporarily increased by 40%, alongside rendering all nearby units fearless until the effect wears out. The said feature could thus be used for the hero's personal defence (fleeing from hazard) and for supporting your own troops, or as a means of scouting and moving around the map very rapidly. An option that could also result in a nice combination with Glorfindel and his swift knights. What do you think? The ability boasts this two-nature side that I fancy quite a lot, as well as exploring the early wandering spirit of our beloved wizard.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 31. Dez 2017, 13:43
I really like both Aulë's concept and Walk's changes! I don't have much to add except on the sword issue, I guess.

I think it would be more unique having a sword-less Gandalf, to further differentiate him from his Gondor counterpart (and of course, taking into account that he only found Glamdring in The Hobbit's time). So maybe another animation could be found for him, I was thinking Saruman's, but I don't know if that would fit.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 31. Dez 2017, 23:45
I think it would be more unique having a sword-less Gandalf, to further differentiate him from his Gondor counterpart (and of course, taking into account that he only found Glamdring in The Hobbit's time). So maybe another animation could be found for him, I was thinking Saruman's, but I don't know if that would fit.

I lean towards this solution too. It would be quite a surprising and unique thing to explore Gandalf in such a manner, without the staff and with different abilities. And I believe that Saruman's own animation could do just fine, although we should probably figure out how that might work with him on his horse.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 2. Jan 2018, 00:59
Hey Guys, sorry for my late answer  :) First of all, remaining theme with the thread, i wish the best for 2018 in very Gandalf style, happy new year!  xD


Firstly: thank you Walküre for sharing your ideas, your advices are always precious. I like the idea of "Emissary of Hope" especially the lore meaning behind it. I admit that i'm not particularly fond on mount when it comes to heroes, because unless the heroes is just on the horse before arriving to the battle, usually it is difficult to use it as an escape tool, given that the switching unmount/mount is quite slow. I understand the reason of removing "Servant of secret Fire", since it plays a similar role of your marvellous Narya concept. That's why i wrote it on brackets the to discuss the matter ;). I hope that your concept will find a way, because it should compensate some weaknesses of our beloved wizard, given also that is a 3000 resources hero.
Only i want to ask you: why not keeping "Blinding Light" as ability on foot an "Emissary of Hope" as ability on mount? I think the last ability is more related to fire rather than light. I feel that Gandalf must always be the one who keep the darkest monsters away, and a light-based spell is the most suitable option in my opinion ;).
In this way we would have an "explorer" gandalf on horse, and a fighting Gandalf on foot. It is quite in line with the lore in  my opinion. Tell me what do you think  ;)


Secondly i'm interested too in exploring a new version of Gandalf who bears staff only. The animation of Saruman is quite good, but i don't know if it fits with Gandalf. Some of Saruman's way of move, attack, walk, reminds me an "evil" wizard. It seems the creators wanted to transmit this when they studied the character. Maybe it is habit only, but that is also the reason why whenever i use Radagast (who has the Saruman's animation) i feel like the animation is a little bit out of character, like if it was too "aggressive" and so to say "imperative" to fit with the Brown one. These are my sensations at least :) I would like to propose instead, and we return again on Chronicles submod, the animation of CaH wizards class. It is more generic, without the "evil" direction described above. I will try to figure out a way to extract and present here the various moves of Gandalf, Saruman and CaH wizards, such we can easily compare them.
As for a possible attack animation on horse using staff, i sincerely don't know what we could use for the purpose 8-|
Yeah, another important thing i forgot: with the staff-only configuration, should the attack turn into area-of-effect type like the other istari? Or, should it remain single one?

EDIT: I figured out out to use w3d editor as well as editing final gifs for the forum (at least not too heavy ones in terms of MB), for example, this is one of Gandalf's oringinal  attack animation, they are three in total (by game experience,it seems are played randomly), this one involved staff only, the other two Glamdring or both staff+glamdring (that is the coolest one, but could look strange if you remove the sword):


Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 4. Jan 2018, 11:26
Sorry for my English !
Wow! I did not think that the conversation about the development of Gandalf will continue, and so on! As it recalls to me that Walküre said that Narya is the only compromise that can be realized for Gandalf, and also that everyone is up to the ideas that were suggested (ideas start from a different kind of guide for the wizard, to different abilities .) were rejected not because they were good or bad (regardless of canonicity and knowledge), but simply because Gandalf is a iconic character! and therefore there can be no change. Nevertheless, I am sincerely glad that most of the players, including Walküre with Gnomi (it's especially pleasant that one of the team members agrees with this) and I will be glad to connect to the conversation. But maybe it's worth to divide the topic into threads: Gandalf for Arnor and Gandalf for Dwarves ???.
1) So Gandalf for Arnor: The lack of a swordsman's wizard - this is already understandable. I'm more inclined to offe rAulëTheSmith. They very well reflect its essence + idea  Offer  Walküre .. Such symbiosis can form the ultimate idea for the abilities of Gandalf. But I only have one remark: Need to think about Gandalf when he gets the ring ???
2) "But I am realizing beforehand that people will argue it's too powerful a spell for a summoned 7 point hero. So I had a better idea, I suggest that, when summoned, Dwarf-faction Gandalf appears in the center of a smaller range Word of Power spell effect. "And then you hear the lines" Take up arms. Fight! FIGHT! ""
NetoD20! I totally agree. But then we need to think about what to do with his fireworks? Because this ability is so very powerful, plus it seems to me that he should change his role a little. Dwarves themselves are very strong and armored and do not particularly need a hero who, with his two abilities, can destroy half the enemy's troops (of course, if used correctly), on the contrary they need what can support the army and heroes. More long ago I proposed the following idea:
Light of istari - it dazzles the time of all nearby enemies in a small radius. Principle of action: Gandalf dazzles nearby enemies (including heroes) for 5 seconds, and they remain paralyzed, while Gandalf and allied heroes receive + 20% speed for 5 seconds. (Remember the scene of the year Gandalf escapes with Train from Azog in Dol Guldur !!!). Ida's ability is ideal for hiding out of the battlefield at critical moments!
This ability combines both leadership and a good non-destructive deed, giving an excellent tactical ability which you will clearly be helped by a fiercely opposed enemy (Well, let's say from the pale orc of your grieving head)
What do you think ?

n the sideline case, it all depends on what role and function Gandalf should perform ??? The mass murderer, (as now), a mighty saboteur or wise mentor ??? In any case, all those who have the abilities + those that were offered are very good !!! The final result depends on what combination of these abilities you choose and what do you expect from them in the end?
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 5. Jan 2018, 00:08
Most of the past proposals regarding Gandalf were rejected due to them proposing changes for Gondor's Gandalf, purporting to find radical alternatives for the iconic characterisation of the hero (like a completely overhauled power set). That's why those concepts weren't accepted. And the lore does retain its fundamental prominence in our reasonings, both when it comes to Narya and this precise proposal: the Grey Wizard is the sole and true bearer of the Ring of Fire by the time of the War of the Ring and Gandalf had not found Glamdring yet, during the War of the North. These are quite compelling reasons, lore-wise.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Jan 2018, 16:57
Shame on me! I just noticed that I forgot to reply to Aulë. May you pardon me and let me remedy this ;)

Well, I can't reasonably object the idea of two different abilities depending on when he's on foot or is mountain a horse. Provided that it's all feasible in the realm of in-game technicalities, I feel like seconding this suggestion. That would also give relevance to what is due: his wanderer motive and his undaunted determination in fighting anything serving evil forces.

Regarding animations, may you know that I quite believe that Saruman's moves could be suitable, don't you think? We are trying to find a solution, based on the assumption that the variety of alternatives is truly quite meagre. So, I think that the common move set of wizards (the one embodied by Saruman and shared by Radagast equally) could do well; just consider my previous reasoning about the early times of Gandalf. What if the three wizards had been more similar in their past than how they would do in the progression of time? Saruman had not turned to resentful or ambiguous thoughts yet, and all the Istari were endeavouring for the same goal. The animation would exactly show this aspect, at the beginning of their journey throughout the wonders and vices of the world. Gandalf should retain his iconic animation for Wizard's Blast anyway.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 14. Jan 2018, 18:37
Don't worry Walküre I know you didn't make it for purpose  :D given that you are a multitasking moderator I cannot blame you if you forgot something occasionally  ;)
Coming to the animation, I like some of the animations of Saruman but not all of them seems to fit with Gandalf, at least that's my personal taste. If you combine both the animation of CaH wizards and Saruman I can assure you that choices are not so limited . In fact if the skeletons of the two are similar we can think about creating a unique combination of animation, without creating nothing new  ;)
I got your reasoning behind what is in common among the three Istari. I will include some examples of both Cah and Saruman as well as updating the concept with new ideas this night ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Ectheldir am 15. Jan 2018, 18:14

I really think diversifying Arnors Gandalf from Gondors is a good and maybe even needed idea. And I very much like your proposal for him, Aule, and do not have anything to really ad to it.
Also, I think, that Gandalf should lose his sword and fight with his staff only, as that would show the difference in time even more and seems generally a lot more fitting to Gandalf at the time of the war with Angmar.

However, I had to read this:
Also, take in cosideration that implemeting this concept would mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer.
Why?! Why would Gandalf have to remain without the ring in this proposal? I always really liked his black form. Not so much from a gameplay, but even more so from an aesthetic perspective. And I always thought tat form even more fitting for Arnors Gandalf (who does not become the white).
So why is it not possible, to retain his ringform? Can't we still keep that?
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 15. Jan 2018, 21:59

I really think diversifying Arnors Gandalf from Gondors is a good and maybe even needed idea. And I very much like your proposal for him, Aule, and do not have anything to really ad to it.
Also, I think, that Gandalf should lose his sword and fight with his staff only, as that would show the difference in time even more and seems generally a lot more fitting to Gandalf at the time of the war with Angmar.

However, I had to read this:
Also, take in cosideration that implemeting this concept would mean to renounce to the ring form in Arnor, in favour of Arvedui as the central ring bearer.
Why?! Why would Gandalf have to remain without the ring in this proposal? I always really liked his black form. Not so much from a gameplay, but even more so from an aesthetic perspective. And I always thought tat form even more fitting for Arnors Gandalf (who does not become the white).
So why is it not possible, to retain his ringform? Can't we still keep that?

Thank you very much Ectheldir, for forwarding you opinion and replying  xD
The abilities of Dark Gandalf are inevitably bonded on The Gondor version . For sure lighting sword, since we are willing to remove Glamdring. It could be kinda strage to see such a change of skillset from normal to ring form. Also it would probably involved a change in the animation too, since the corrupted as his own walk animation, and it is  built around Glamdring too. I don't know, in my opinion is not so feasible nor it's fitting.

Anyway, look at at main post of the concept, i updated it  :)
Walküre, feel yourself free to change the image and/or description of Emissary of Hope if you want :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Jan 2018, 00:04
I fancy the icon picture quite a lot. Good choice! It always conveys that adventurous trait of the wizard's character that I'm deeply fond of.

As for the initial part of the own description, I would word it this way: Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. Then, the effects may be kept as they are.

P.S. You have actually inspired me to give life to a poem about the matter, Aulë. Thank you for the hint; I had better not waste time and write it down immediately :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 16. Jan 2018, 00:51
I fancy the icon picture quite a lot. Good choice! It always conveys that adventurous trait of the wizard's character that I'm deeply fond of.

As for the initial part of the own description, I would word it this way: Gandalf journeys through the lands of grief, bearer of hope at the behest of the West. Then, the effects may be kept as they are.

P.S. You have actually inspired me to give life to a poem about the matter, Aulë. Thank you for the hint; I had better not waste time and write it down immediately :D

I will change the description Walküre, you are as always very poetic, I couldn't conceive such words by myself I admit it  :D I'm glad I inspired your inexhaustible creativity further  :) Then hurry up in writing your poem  xD
The picture is the beginning of all the adventures, so it is evocative I shall say :)

I will keep updating the very concept, adding more animations and improving it further where necessary :)
Oh , last but not least it's my duty to put a reference to Narya's concept, since also this version should be included in Narya's list. Furthermore, I thought to change something to make Narya's effect particular to this case, not about magic part but about melee attack, which by the way we should discuss more deeply, since we want the staff as only weapon :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Jan 2018, 02:33
Yes, this proposal is to certainly open another discussion in the Narya-related thread and I'm looking forward to it. Take all the time you need. I will also update the starting post of the very thread. We need advertise the concept in much better ways.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 17. Jan 2018, 22:05
Yes, this proposal is to certainly open another discussion in the Narya-related thread and I'm looking forward to it. Take all the time you need. I will also update the starting post of the very thread. We need advertise the concept in much better ways.

I updated the main post :). Also i think about two things: usually Gandalf holds his staff with left hand. Both animations of Sarumans and cah are based on right hand. So i don't know if we can recover some old animation of Gandalf (Gandalf's blast is left-handed), it could finally result wierd.
Unless it's easy to mirror the movements, but i don't think so. It could require a lot of work. It's a pity  :(

Another thing, would this version of Gandalf has the same price of 3000 resources or should we consider to lower it to 2500?
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 18. Jan 2018, 02:38
Another option would consist of a simple overhaul of the sword. That is, Glamdring is to be superseded and the wizard will get a new blade, whose concept we may discuss here without any problem. This would spare us the need for another set of animations, which is the toughest aspect of the proposal. What do you think?

No, I still believe that Gandalf is well worth his 3000 resources ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 18. Jan 2018, 18:30
Another option would consist of a simple overhaul of the sword. That is, Glamdring is to be superseded and the wizard will get a new blade, whose concept we may discuss here without any problem. This would spare us the need for another set of animations, which is the toughest aspect of the proposal. What do you think?

No, I still believe that Gandalf is well worth his 3000 resources ;)

Despite it is a pity to renounce to "staff mode", I agree we should definely consider the way of alternative sword. Especially because it would require far less time and work. Also if we choose Saruman or whatever staff animation it would mean to renounce to some cool animation of Gandalf, because of technical reason we just said. Reversing the movement from left to right (because Gandalf holds Glamdring on right hand and staff on left, and all his animation are based on this positions), would mean a huge work I'm quite sure.
So yes, let's start the seeking of an alternative sword, any idea you have you can post it here, everyone is welcome :)

EDIT: Just as a start, what are we looking for? a standard (simpler) model to underline that Glamdring is more important? An example (don't take the engravings in consideration):

(https://preview.ibb.co/eFxOww/sword.png)

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 20. Jan 2018, 13:59
Aye, I would prefer a simple design, just like Glamdring (it's the best typology of Elven swords that I like and it just resembles the canonical shape of European swords, wielded high by knights or saints combating evil demons). And I would also have this past blade remain an Elven blade of the kind I mentioned above. Without the typical curves or other spike-shaped elements. Only, we should also try to differentiate it from Gandalf's regular sword too. So, I thought we should go for a different hilt; the very shape is to remain simple and just classic, with the only exception of the haft. Or, even better, the blade and the haft could be fused together into a single sword, as most of the weapons in Ancient Greece. Regarding the colour, I would suggest the typical steel-like tone or even pure white; I deem it wise to have the sword be made of silver. In line with tons of examples in literature, this metal has the peculiar power to suppress anything evil and harm it.


Then, my gentle attendees of the thread, I think I may have come up with a decent background story for the said sword, in order to endow it with a proper essence; this is the case for many items in Tolkien's writings. We must live up to the tradition. Concerning the story, what if the blade were too a gift from Círdan. Not only did he give the wizard the Ring of Fire, but also something that would be of much avail in his perilous journey. Círdan had foreseen all the tribulations that Gandalf would have to face and therefore decided to offer him a secondary object of relevant note. The Guardian of the Havens see further than anyone else in Middle-earth and knows that the hands of the wizard shall wield a greater blade, unearthed thanks to fate and hammer of the Evil...

Zitat
Take the blade of the Foam-riders with thee, Grey Wizard. It is silver, light as our vessels that voyage beyond the blue, yet dreadful token for whom dareth hinder the will of the Western Lords. Thou shalt bear it, along thy hazardous journeys and whither thy mission is to lead thee, until thy hand shall wield a mightier craft, made by grievous exiled and borne by a king dwelling in legend.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 20. Jan 2018, 16:47
I perfectly agree with you about the lore you crafted. It is quite reasonable to set our sword as a gift for Cirdan. I had too the desire to preserve some the Elvish style even in this new weapon but i found nothing that satisfy me in the past days. Now instead, i want  to show you some intepretative drawigs about Elven kings blades, some are simply the one coming from the movies (there is Glamdring too and Orcrist, along with the Kings they were intended for). We can easly exclude curved or other particular shape blades as you said, but maybe in the others we can find something interesting:


The Fingon one (upper picture), for example, it's in the style you proposed :), or the Ingwë one (bottom picture) too if we get rid of those climbing branches along the blade :)
A note: could be reasonable in your opinion to make the blade shining in presence of enemy? it could underline the elvish provenance of the blade as well as distinguish it from Glamdring even when the zoom is not so high to notice the differences in details
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Jan 2018, 22:19
How in the world was I not aware of those pictures' existence? They're totally splendid and it really required a vast amount of imagination to give shape to such creativity, I guess. Thank you for having shared it with us :)

Based on the aforementioned reasoning, I would deem Voronwë's blade a viable choice. The sword itself is as elegant as Glamdring and differs from the latter in size, being overall thinner and longer. It would make for a great sword, as a gift from the Foam-riders (in the way we envisaged this fictional lore of ours). Adding to this, it is significant and important that such blade be not granted the property of glowing: as far as I have knowledge of, this peculiar quality had only been achieved by the Noldorin smiths of Aman, at the acme of the Noldor's beauty and potency during the Noon of Valinórë. The art of forging glowing swords was then brought with them to Middle-earth. It follows that, albeit them being the finest mariners of all, the Teleri (the Sea-elves, specifically) could not boast such crafting mastery in regards to weapons.

In the end, choosing that sword will permit to create a silver-made model with the haft being fused with the main body of the weapon. Bright as the stars shining over the waves of the blue.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 21. Jan 2018, 23:49
How in the world was I not aware of those pictures' existence? They're totally splendid and it really required a vast amount of imagination to give shape to such creativity, I guess. Thank you for having shared it with us :)

You know gentle Walküre, when it comes to seek pitcure or everything about concepts nothing can stop me  :D :D. To be fair i simply did not give up in searching on internet, and finally found something that really satisfy my curiosity as well as my desire of fine art :)
 I'm really glad you like it and you and all the other valorous members of MU can share this picture or make use of it for whatever purpose , now that you are aware of them ;)

I have noticed the Voronwë one, it seemed really "made for Gandalf" the reason i didn't now, now instead i have the answer:


I'm still young but at the same time old enough such i've started exploring the LOTR world in cinema from the very beginning: via the the Ralph Bakshi's LOTR VHS, the vintage cartoon crafted far back in 1978  :D :D And as you can see the sword of Gandalf The White in this case was white and shining too. 
It was a clue hidden in a corner of my growing older mind  :D
Anyhow, i agree with the sword model and understand the reasoning of non-glowing, the silver itself should be just itself sufficiently shining such that you can clearly distinguish it from Turgon's intended blade :)

Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Jan 2018, 00:38
Correct. That was what I was seeking for. And I would call it a sign of fate: we ought to proceed this way :P

This is personally the sword of my dreams: elegant, light and a sole shape of metal. I adore akin warfare craft and I like imagining that Elven art was also austere and essential in the Elder Days, yet perfect in itself and imbued by magic. Sometimes, one just has to go back to the old simpler manner, if this one is willing to enjoy consistent art. It is also my antiquarian conception of art, holistically speaking, and it kind of applies to Eä equally.

Hence, I shall give you my green light.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 22. Jan 2018, 12:26
Main post updated with all the recent progresses ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Jan 2018, 02:39
The very first post has been updated and edited. The main proposal shall now have the needed and well-deserved visibility of the case. And it was just time for a proper renovation of the thread! I've also taken the liberty to start the voting/feedback-garnering process. I think that the final outcome may be submitted to public scrutiny without any problem.

Good luck :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 23. Jan 2018, 10:13
The very first post has been updated and edited. The main proposal shall now have the needed and well-deserved visibility of the case. And it was just time for a proper renovation of the thread! I've also taken the liberty to start the voting/feedback-garnering process. I think that the final outcome may be submitted to public scrutiny without any problem.

Good luck :)

Thank you very much, Walküre, for your precious help and contribution :) it has been really a pleasure to work on Gandalf, putting my creativity in such an important character. Now let's see what is the opinion of the cummunity via voting-system :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Jan 2018, 14:25
Needless to say, additional discussions and minor improvements may be debated, provided that one expresses oneself in favour or against the core concept. That is our prime goal.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 23. Jan 2018, 15:12
Consider me in favour of this suggestion!
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 23. Jan 2018, 17:28
I as Gandalf myself can't deny this proposal XD. But seriously, Gandalf in Arnor really needed some changes and this proposal is very well written, aiming to design Gandalf as he was before we saw him in the hobbit. Though i would want to see some other ability than the constant wizard blast, i think this concept is quite satisfying. I'm for it.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 24. Jan 2018, 10:18
Needless to say, additional discussions and minor improvements may be debated, provided that one expresses oneself in favour or against the core concept. That is our prime goal.

Indeed. As i said some time ago in Smaug's thread, apart of twisting the core itself (otherwise it would not make sense to keep on discussing on the examined concept  [ugly]), everything can be changed. I warmly invite everyone to express his vote and what they'd like to improve  :)
Btw thank you for updating the main post for me, great Walküre! xD

Consider me in favour of this suggestion!

Gracias Julio!  xD

I as Gandalf myself can't deny this proposal XD. But seriously, Gandalf in Arnor really needed some changes and this proposal is very well written, aiming to design Gandalf as he was before we saw him in the hobbit. Though i would want to see some other ability than the constant wizard blast, i think this concept is quite satisfying. I'm for it.

Thank you Gandalf, as you see you should be happy now you have a new sword to  add in your Elven weapon collection  :D
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: OakenShield224 am 24. Jan 2018, 19:28
I'm in favour of this idea. I think it could be a very interesting addition.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 24. Jan 2018, 20:16
I'm in favour of this idea. I think it could be a very interesting addition.

Thank you and welcome on board OakenShield  xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 26. Jan 2018, 00:22
Yup, add me too, please!

I was not too keen on a staff-only Gandalf, because of how recognisable his animations are. The replaced sword looks good, though I think it should not look more majestic than Glamdring itself. Also, I'm not sure shining white objects stand out well in-game, but perhaps that's too much nitpicking.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 26. Jan 2018, 01:07
Thank you for the support. Were the model to be actually crafted by developers, I'm sure it won't outshine our Glamdring. Personally, I think that it's not aesthetics what differentiates the former from the fictional latter. The new blade is not to possess such power, so that it may channel the terrible force of weather phenomena, that perhaps represents the furthest extent at which the wizard's own prowess could push itself. Nevertheless, we shall see which turn things are bound to take.

And, no, never have your remarks been superfluous or out-of-place considerations. I take all in consideration for the time to be :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 26. Jan 2018, 11:11
Yup, add me too, please!

I was not too keen on a staff-only Gandalf, because of how recognisable his animations are. The replaced sword looks good, though I think it should not look more majestic than Glamdring itself. Also, I'm not sure shining white objects stand out well in-game, but perhaps that's too much nitpicking.

Firstly, Welcome to the thread Garlodur and thank you for your support  :).
Secondly, don't be afraid to share you opinion, never  :) I second the words of Walküre: i'm sure developers would find a good compromise, as well as a proper shining intensity :) i cannot say to you how because it is not my field  [ugly]
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 5. Feb 2018, 12:28
I also support! Write me down too!
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 5. Feb 2018, 19:14
I also support! Write me down too!

Welcome and thank you for your support, Lord Dain@  xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Isildurs Fluch am 7. Feb 2018, 20:16
I like this suggestion, especially the "Revealing spell".
The only doubt I have is about the speed buff in "Emissary of hope". Again I deem it a very fitting abillity for him, but Gandalf is already seen as a bit op, because he can escape from most of the dangerous situations with ease when mounted.
So you can just enter the situation, use all his abillities dealing heavy damage and run away. So this might need a bit of adjustment...
Anyhow you can put me on the list  ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Feb 2018, 16:27
Thank you for the support. I think it's truly great that you also visit English threads and give feedback on the showcased content. Your opinion is ever-valuable.

On the matter, I wouldn't oppose the decreasing of that speed boost, should circumstances require it, but I would like it to stay in equal terms. The effect connects well with that wandering theme and you should consider that this version of Gandalf would no longer dispose of his typical power set, which is unanimously deemed a force of nature. It derives that the hero won't be as impactful as his Gondor counterpart, I guess.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 9. Feb 2018, 01:53
Indeed your are always welcome Isildur. I'm really glad you finally checked this concept. it's great that you usually visit both souls of the forum :)
I suppose the absence of lighting sword and especially word of power should make Gandalf less massively disrupting :) apart of the classical wizard blast, the rest of the power set has a different nature as Walküre said. This new Gandalf it is a wanderer (emissary of hope) and also a magic interfer (revealing spell). The circle of fire it easily burns weak enemies helping you to prevent Gandalf from dangerous massive surrounding, but without the immense shockwave of word of power.
In the end, we explored different other aspects of him and I think it would be interesting to play in this way ;) don't worry about values, if they need a change it will come up during testing of the character, hoping that he will find his own way in the mod of course ;)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 1. Apr 2018, 03:09
Another well done proposal Aule, glad to see after months of not being here that the Union is still active and you at the forefront! I noticed I was not listed in the favor section. So I would like to take this time and say that I am totally FOR THIS CONCEPT!

You guys have done an awesome job on this. Well done! I am also interested to see what happens to Gandalf in his Dark Form. Will that be added sometime later? Or keep it the same for simplicity?
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 3. Apr 2018, 16:35
Another well done proposal Aule, glad to see after months of not being here that the Union is still active and you at the forefront! I noticed I was not listed in the favor section. So I would like to take this time and say that I am totally FOR THIS CONCEPT!

You guys have done an awesome job on this. Well done! I am also interested to see what happens to Gandalf in his Dark Form. Will that be added sometime later? Or keep it the same for simplicity?

Hi dkblue and thank you for your opinion and compliments :) your name will be put into the list.
Have no idea about how I can craft a new Dark Gandalf starting from the new concept. I would rather rework better Arvedui. I don't like so much his current implementation.
The new Gandalf has different abilities and characteristic so I don't think it's logical to keep the current dark form as it is, which is an enhancement of the Grey Pilgrim skillset in Gondor. So in the end I rather give up with any Gandalf ring form in Arnor, in favor of the King Arvedui. that is my opinion but of course if anyone has some good other idea is free to propose :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 5. Apr 2018, 00:30
Naw, Aule, I really can't think of making Gandalf any darker than he already is. I agree that Arvedui should be the Ring hero, (but he already is). So I don't mind if you guys want to upgrade/downgrade or change his abilities.

You know since Gandalf turns evil, maybe just use the same evil ring form. I mean it is totally different anyways from his normal grey persona.
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tiberius Ogden am 21. Jan 2019, 03:21
I am definitely (and logically  xD) for this proposal!
Glad to see that my and Tienety's original ideas evolved into unique Gandal's skillset, which not only separates him from his Gondor's counterpart, but also will make Arnor much more playable for fans who think that Arnor is just boring copy of Gondor. Reworked Gandalf for Arnor provides so needed fresh air, especially the skills which are based on Hobbit movies.  8-)

Concerning staff - don't forget that our idea was based on Gandalf only with the staff and without sword, which he found later. And you want to create completely new sword because you found that some animations don't fit well ... xD
Then we should talk how to solve this problem and stay loyal to our original ideas, and not create something more complicated which we didn't want in the first place. ;)
So where's the problem? We have Saruman's animation and wizard CaH animation which are sufficient ... so problem is in particular ability?
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 27. Jan 2019, 14:50
I am definitely (and logically  xD) for this proposal!
Glad to see that my and Tienety's original ideas evolved into unique Gandal's skillset, which not only separates him from his Gondor's counterpart, but also will make Arnor much more playable for fans who think that Arnor is just boring copy of Gondor. Reworked Gandalf for Arnor provides so needed fresh air, especially the skills which are based on Hobbit movies.  8-)

Concerning staff - don't forget that our idea was based on Gandalf only with the staff and without sword, which he found later. And you want to create completely new sword because you found that some animations don't fit well ... xD
Then we should talk how to solve this problem and stay loyal to our original ideas, and not create something more complicated which we didn't want in the first place. ;)
So where's the problem? We have Saruman's animation and wizard CaH animation which are sufficient ... so problem is in particular ability?

I'm glad you like the changes made by me and Walküre. I think that in this way Gandalf would be more unique and also more hobbit-style oriented ( for example I just love the magic wave he use to cast the conceiling spell of Dol Guldur).
By the way, as for the staff: yes there are some very good animations both from cah and from Saruman. A combination of those two would be great. The fact is that there are some very cool and unique movements of the current Gandalf we want to preserve. Also, take into account that regarding mount there are no animations with staff, such that they would require a huge amount of work to be made from scratch. I really would love to see a unique set of animation for staff only, but a new sword seems to be the best compromise.
Anyway, Walküre will insert you in the green list  8-)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tiberius Ogden am 27. Jan 2019, 15:20
for the staff: yes there are some very good animations both from cah and from Saruman. A combination of those two would be great. The fact is that there are some very cool and unique movements of the current Gandalf we want to preserve.

So we want staff from the Hobbit movies (Gandalf's original staff), but also we know that he can't wield Glamdring due to time period.


Solution is simple, give him some regular sword which is already in the game (sword of some unit or hero) and slightly rework the top of his staff to look like this:


We already recycled his abilities and this minor visual change should take minimum amount of time ... overall work on him would be really fast. And voila, ET has new article which can publish. xD
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Jan 2019, 15:59
Recycling sounds exactly as the best option. As far as my minimum breadth of graphical knowledge goes, reworking weapons or items is most of the times far easier than humanoid models. In our case, they are already-existing features, and so it might be even less complicated.

I understand that having Gandalf wield just his staff would greatly differentiate him from his Gondor counterpart, but I don't quite see Saruman's animation set as the fittest ever. It follows that a sword could really do. We have already found the concept from which we may take inspiration; it's a very elegant, Elven-style drawing. I fancy it a good deal! If you want, in order to put more flesh on the bones, I will try to imagine some appropriate sword-lore for this blade. For instance, its origin and how the Grey Wizard came to possess it :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Tiberius Ogden am 27. Jan 2019, 21:28
I agree that we should keep his current fighting animation (staff and sword), I'm just saying that we started with the staff rework but you ended with sword rework.  xD

Staff should have the priority ... staff is something what distinguishes Gandalfs.
But of course, if we think that sword rework won't take much time, then new sword based on elven design can be implemented as well.

But I think that Gandalf doesn't need fancy sword, Glamdring is fancy sword after all. He could fight in the past with some common sword (adding-recycling some ingame sword would be obviously faster than creating the new one) ... but yes, I can imagine that he wielded some elven weapon too ... he was in regular contact with elves ... everything is possible. :P
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Jan 2019, 23:16
Of course, the staff is equally crucial. I just forgot to mention it; it was implicit in the comment. Some time ago, I had tried to dabble with the secret, obscure art of graphics. I even modelled the basic skeleton of an axe, though it was too simplistic, and my skills insufficient. Nevertheless, I've learnt that working on tools, or modifying existing concepts (even better), is generally easier than crafting characters (clothes, robes and tonnes of minor details).

I guess that both the staff and his new sword could simply be carved out of present content in the game. The staff has obviously its unbelievably evocative meaning for Gandalf :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: dgsgomes am 1. Dez 2019, 14:44
I did not know there was a suggestion for Arnor Gandalf. Your concept is awesome, therefore you have my support.  :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 2. Mai 2020, 12:01
I did not know there was a suggestion for Arnor Gandalf. Your concept is awesome, therefore you have my support.  :)

Hi Dgs, I've seen that i totally forgot to answer you in the past. I'm sorry.

Thank you very much for your kind words and support. As soon as he can, Walküre will insert you into the In favour list  :)
Titel: Re: Gandalf (Arnor)
Beitrag von: steadii am 24. Dez 2020, 20:06
I really like the skillset. It is easy to implement and Arnor Gandalf will be finally different from Gondor Gandalf, who has skillset for War of the ring.
Arnor Gandalf should be more like Hobbit Gandalf, something like hidden emmisary who has skillset for discovering while travelling in the north.
So I support it.