Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir, and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it known that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return.
‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labours and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valour of old in a world that grows chill. But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.’
GANDALF'S STANCES
(https://i.imgur.com/cUUV1XB.png) Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire, poison, ice and magic.
(https://i.imgur.com/lZThDHD.png) Offensive Stance: Might of the Istar - Gandalf uses his potent magic to fight evil and tyranny. His spell damage is amplified by 50% and his attack by 15%.
On the other hand, his defence is decreased by 25% and his magical bubble-shield is completely disabled, leaving him vulnerable against enemy heroes and monsters.
(https://i.imgur.com/JtQTTWz.png) Defensive Stance: Wizard's Shield - Gandalf conveys all his power to his bubble-shield, to resist any fell menace. His defence is increased by 25% and his bubble-shield's frequency will be a lot higher, granting him protection against units, monsters and heroes.
Conversely, the effort drains part of Gandalf's vigour and his spell damage is then decreased by 50%.
NOTE: In line with the ancient lore of the Three Rings and their particular nature, this proposal will be coherently linked with the other two I had the privilege to work on: Nenya and Vilya. The pivotal theme at the centre of things, preservation, will thus be explored in different manners, each compatible with the relative hero and context.
As usual your concepts never fail to amaze.
The one fault I have but is that when Cirdan gives Gandalf the ring he states:
"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
This implies Gandalf uses the ring to bolster those around him rather than his own powers, and as much as I hate to say it; I am Against the proposed implementation at the moment, as it just does not sit right with me, the concept is wonderfully proposed but in order for it to sit right with me there needs to be some sort of interaction between Narya and other units/ heroes.
I Agree with this suggestion. Let's give Narya a proper spot in the mod!!! :)
To clarify my view the thing is I like the idea, I think it is a good way to incorporate Narya, and I would be more than happy with if it included with some sort of leadership but without the leadership it seems to give Narya to Gandalf just for the sake of giving him Narya.As usual your concepts never fail to amaze.
The one fault I have but is that when Cirdan gives Gandalf the ring he states:
"Take this ring, master," he said, "for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness that you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill."
This implies Gandalf uses the ring to bolster those around him rather than his own powers, and as much as I hate to say it; I am Against the proposed implementation at the moment, as it just does not sit right with me, the concept is wonderfully proposed but in order for it to sit right with me there needs to be some sort of interaction between Narya and other units/ heroes.
I appreciate the fact that you liked the form, but it also saddens me a bit that you disagree with the content. I absolutely respect your opinion though. As I both pointed out here and in our discussion about Gandalf, hope-infusing properties are lore-accurate indeed, but I can guarantee you that Gandalf will never be given any kind of leadership on any unit: his role is the one of a solitary mass-slayer. He's the mightiest hero of the faction, yet other heroes are supposed to be leaders in Gondor.
So, as I suggested, the only way to find a compromise is to view Gandalf's leadership of the Good as the power of his impressive spells (whenever he fights the Evil). Otherwise, there is no space left for additions of the sort you referred to. The leadership issue was in fact one of the major causes that caused many past proposals to sink. We didn't want to make the same mistake.
"Against the power of Gandalf, there can be no victory!" :DI Agree with this suggestion. Let's give Narya a proper spot in the mod!!! :)
I knew you wanted to have your Ring of Power back xD
I have an idea for the standard part, what if Narya (in balance form) allows Gandalf's powers to replenish 25% faster? Mixed with Gandalf the White that would make his abilities recharge 50% faster, I don't know if that would be too fast or not maybe 15%?
I am for this idea, Walk ;)
Slawek56703 Saruman did have a ring, but it wasn't as good as Narya's however, it would be interesting to incorporate that...
Slawek56703 I don't think Saruman should get as good of stats or abilities from his ring as it was not as good as any of the three. However, to see his ring incorporated as an ability might be interesting for Saruman.
If only Saruman stances increase/decrease his abilities damage instead of melee damage that would fit Wizard Class more too
Cirdan will get a new concept in version 4.5 making him more usefull for RivendellWhat is this mean ? Didn't mentioned Arnor ? A new hero ???
-Lvl 1: Narya's Inspiration- Cirdan uses his Ring to kindle fiery courage in the heart of his allies. Units around Cirdan gain +25% armor. When the ability is activated the bonus will be increased to +50% armor and damage. However, once the duration of the ability expires the passive leadrship will be disabled until the ability is fully recharged.
This ability remains unchanged, it is reminiscent of the power that the Ring of Narya gives the user, not in magical strength or destructive might but rather in the ability to kindle the fires of battle even in the most cowardly of beings. Giving the player the chance to decide between a lesser constant armor buff or a greater temporary armor and damage boost, perhaps strong enough to turn the tide of battle in favor of Imladris.
Círdan's current ability (involving the Ring of Fire) will be simply renamed Gift of the Sea. As for the icon picture, I guess an image of the Grey Havens or of the Sea itself will do fine.
You should make a poll as i made :P
Did you add my name to the list already Diewalkure?
I am for this proposal, it is perfect.
I am sorry if I am late to this but holy crap that's an amazing concept for incorporating Narya into Gandalf's skillset. Much love goes to whoever thought of this!
unequivocally supports. At last I hope Gandalf will receive a welcome boost and we will be able to enjoy 4.5. !
+1
I like idea make Gandalf more interesting hero and more usefull compared with Galadriel and Saruman.
But there should be problem because Gandalf gets magic dmg buff in 1. lvl with his stances what is not that great in terms of gameplay balance, but that could be solved with scaling damage of abilitys with Gandalfs levels.
I would like to give my vote IN FAVOR of DieWalkure's well thought out and very lore friendly proposal.
Thank you for having taken the proposal into notice. Concerning your two issues with the concept, this is my answer.
1. Thranduil and Sauron dispose of a unique stance system too. As I replied to Elendil, I don't mind having major heroes sporting smart systems for the sake of differentiation, provided that each suggestion is conceptually worthy in itself. This is nothing more than the true spirit of the Edain Mod.
I meant in one faction. Denethor in Gondor, Theodred in Rohan etc...
Nonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he win come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Valaquenta
I'm totally agree with this idea after all this is my hour and i will break the wizard by my lord's will so why not let him wear his ring, (eowyn smile in background).
I hope to have sparked the debate around this a litte, as I deem it of importance to the implementation of Narya to Gandalf that a good alternative is found.
Anyhow, such an ability that you propose moves away from the Narya ability in place. There is no passive effect and the active effect is not so strong where it matters on the battlefield. The way I see Narya worked out of Cirdan's skill set is just by changing the background for this ability while maintaining its function.
Yours is an absolutely fitting and conceptually precious proposal, Aulë. Thank you for having spent your time in crafting that.
, I wouldn't regard the two proposals as a so much intertwined situation; one doesn't exclude the other. And Narya is naturally the main focus of this topic, given its structured system and utmost importance. Repatriating the Ring of Fire to his true owner is our paramount goal and thus goes beyond what is to come in regards of the Keeper of the Havens. It's legitimate to endeavour for a great result in the other direction too, provided that one side doesn't bind the other.
Ulmo does stand before all the other Valar in might, apart from Manwë and Varda (the mightiest of all). In the words of the quotation below, the Vala of the oceans can count on the genuine love of the Eldar, whom he often helps and guides. Rivers, streams and seas tell him and whisper the events of mortal lands, so that very little is in the end a secret for the Lord of the Water. Following in the footsteps of Narya's hope-infusing nature, this feature will equally rekindle hope in the hearts of the Elves. I took the liberty to create the button of the very ability and to rename it Ulumúri, because I personally deem it a better title (a bit more mysterious and sea-like). I have also found a suitable sound: something that you, Aulë, will hopefully recognise in a second ;)ZitatNonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he win come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Valaquenta
(https://i.imgur.com/UcSHuzL.gif) Ulumúri (Level 1): The Horns of Ylmir resound in battle, in times of struggle and strife. For 15 seconds all allied units on the map are fearless. Surrounding units gain +10% attack.
Sound: Horns of Ylmir (https://soundcloud.com/diewalk-re/ulmos-horn).
I adjusted values a little, since the ability was objectively too much effective for the very first level. Furthermore, Garlodur, I think that an Ulmo-related concept is everything one could hope for, speaking about Círdan. Water is a theme we ought not to do without in this context, and the Vala himself has helped marine Elves many times, since the Elder Days. The proposal represents the hope-infusing aspect of Narya in another fashion (unique). And I do believe that the effects themselves don't render Círdan a so dynamic of a force, if you consider that those properties may serve well even for defence. A simple replica of the current ability wouldn't do justice to this concept; the idea itself behind the horn is quite compelling indeed, in the logic of an active feature.
This is exactly the form of reconceptualisation I was referring to. I see now that I might have sounded too judgmental of the Úlmo aspect of this proposal. My apologies for this to Aulë.Don't worry Garlodur, i have been a bit hurried proposing that +30% all over the map :) but i believe the general idea it would be epic in game and our moderator Diewalk found a perfect balance version of the power as well as good sound and palantir :)
But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his governmentSo why not including a spell about water as source of inspiration? (like other terrain type spell)
I would therefore suggest we stick to the original concept we conceived. The fact that the enchanted horns of the sea-Vala will resound all over the map exactly symbolises that Ulmo's powers may reach nearly every place, as Tolkien tells us. Should you not be swayed by this argument, you could always imagine Ulmo spreading his influence via all the water sources which find themselves under the surfaces of the ground (be it frozen wastes or dry deserts).
But of all the Maiar Ossë and Uinen are best known to the Children of Ilúvatar.J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion
Ossë is a vassal of Ulmo, and he is master of the seas that wash the shores of Middle-earth. He does not go in the deeps, but loves the coasts and the isles, and rejoices in the winds of Manwë; for in storm he delights, and laughs amid the roaring of the waves. His spouse is Uinen, the Lady of the Seas, whose hair lies spread through all waters under sky. All creatures she loves that live in the salt streams, and all weeds that grow there; to her mariners cry, for she can lay calm upon the waves, restraining the wildness of Ossë. The Númenóreans lived long in her protection, and held her in reverence equal to the Valar.
Melkor hated the Sea, for he could not subdue it. It is said that in the making of Arda he endeavoured to draw Ossë to his allegiance, promising to him all the realm and power of Ulmo, if he would serve him. So it was that long ago there arose great tumults in the sea that wrought ruin to the lands. But Uinen, at the prayer of Aulë, restrained Ossë and brought him before Ulmo; and he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance, to which he has remained faithful. For the most part; for the delight in violence has never wholly departed from him, and at times he will rage in his wilfulness without any command from Ulmo his lord. Therefore those who dwell by the sea or go up in ships may love him, but they do not trust him.
[...]
But when they learned that Ingwë and Finwë and their peoples were gone, then many of the Teleri pressed on to the shores of Beleriand, and dwelt thereafter near the Mouths of Sirion, in longing for their friends that had departed; and they took Olwë, Elwë’s brother, to be their king. Long they remained by the coasts of the western sea, and Ossë and Uinen came to them and befriended them; and Ossë instructed them, sitting upon a rock near to the margin of the land, and of him they learned all manner of sea-lore and sea-music. Thus it came to be that the Teleri, who were from the beginning lovers of water, and the fairest singers of all the Elves, were after enamoured of the seas, and their songs were filled with the sound of waves upon the shore.
When many years had passed, Ulmo hearkened to the prayers of the Noldor and of Finwë their king. Who grieved at their long sundering from the Teleri, and besought him to bring them to Aman, if they would come. And most of them proved now willing indeed; but great was the grief of Ossë when Ulmo returned to the coasts of Beleriand, to bear them away to Valinor; for his care was for the seas of Middle-earth and the shores of the Hither Lands, and he was ill-pleased that the voices of the Teleri should be heard no more in his domain. Some he persuaded to remain; and those were the Falathrim, the Elves of the Falas, who in after days had dwellings at the havens of Brithombar and Eglarest, the first mariners in Middle-earth and the first makers of ships. Círdan the Shipwright was their lord.
I don't know whether these suggestions are to be included in the next update. And even if I knew that, I couldn't reveal it either (since I can't give away internal information), unless a specific allowance. All official news and statements concerning what will be are published by the Edain Team in the proper board of the forum. This, as the other concepts belonging to this thread, are still proposals, and they thus ought to be treated that way.
I'm sorry mine is only hope :D my intention is not to force you. And I'm quite sure you are very good moderator which means you're also able to keep secrets and surprises until the right moment comes xD.
I have respect for you, Walk, as you are committed to learn and make this mod so interesting with your knowledge of lore.
Continue your work, Walk. You're doing a great job for the German and International community. ;)
I am saying that, if you want the focus to be on Narya and its subtle powers, then make the palantír more about Narya!
I really don't know why this much effort is going into the pictures.
ZitatNonetheless Ulmo loves both Elves and Men, and never abandoned them, not even when they lay under the wrath of the Valar. At times he win come unseen to the shores of Middle-earth, or pass far inland up firths of the sea, and there make music upon his great horns, the Ulumúri, that are wrought of white shell; and those to whom that music comes hear it ever after in their hearts, and longing for the sea never leaves them again. But mostly Ulmo speaks to those who dwell in Middle-earth with voices that are heard only as the music of water. For all seas, lakes, rivers, fountains and springs are in his government; so that the Elves say that the spirit of Ulmo runs in all the veins of the world. Thus news comes to Ulmo, even in the deeps, of all the needs and griefs of Arda, which otherwise would be hidden from Manwë.J.R.R. Tolkien - The Silmarillion: Valaquenta
(https://i.imgur.com/UcSHuzL.gif) Ulumúri (Level 1): The Horns of Ylmir resound in battle, in times of struggle and strife. For 15 seconds all allied units on the map are fearless. Surrounding units gain +10% attack.
Sound: Horns of Ylmir (https://soundcloud.com/diewalk-re/ulmos-horn).
I do lean towards this option. It sounds like the most appropriate one for a level-1 defensive ability. An armour boost seems really the simplest choice; we nonetheless have to make sure that the very feature is properly balanced, as you said. Imladris already disposes of the finest armoured troops in the game. Values need therefore to be adjusted for the good. Other than that, I have no problem with your proposal.
As we elect this path, I think it would be wise to do away with those fear-cancelling effects. The attack boost could be toned down too or even removed altogether. In this sense, a more moderate influence on troops makes the ability proper for its function/value.
GANDALF'S STANCES
(https://i.imgur.com/cUUV1XB.png) Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire, poison, ice and magic.
(https://i.imgur.com/lZThDHD.png) Offensive Stance: Might of the Istar - Gandalf uses his potent magic to fight evil and tyranny. His spell damage is amplified by 50% and his attack by 15%.
On the other hand, his defence is decreased by 25% and his magical bubble-shield is completely disabled, leaving him vulnerable against enemy heroes and monsters.
(https://i.imgur.com/JtQTTWz.png) Defensive Stance: Wizard's Shield - Gandalf conveys all his power to his bubble-shield, to resist any fell menace. His defence is increased by 25% and his bubble-shield's frequency will be a lot higher, granting him protection against units, monsters and heroes.
Conversely, the effort drains part of Gandalf's vigour and his spell damage is then decreased by 50%.
(https://i.imgur.com/UcSHuzL.gif) Ulumúri Level 1: The Horns of Ylmir resound in battle, in times of struggle and strife. For 15 seconds all allied units on the map are fearless. Surrounding units gain +10% attack.
(http://i.imgur.com/s5x6emD.gif) Level 10: Tutelage of Ossë - Thanks to the ancestral teachings of Ossë, Círdan grants all ships and siege weapons across the map +30% armour, +20% attack and +15% speed for a duration.
(https://i.imgur.com/cUUV1XB.png) Normal Stance: Narya - The Ring of Fire ensures a proper balance between spell effectiveness and the bubble-shield's frequency.
Narya also preserves its bearer from toil and wear, providing higher resistance against fire and ice.
I'm just thinking if hero who costs 1 400 needs really strong and useful abilities ...
I would buff the first ability from 15% to 25% attack bonus