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[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Lothlorien Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: The_Necromancer0 am 10. Okt 2016, 09:30

Titel: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 10. Okt 2016, 09:30

THE AXE OF DORIATH

In the game: Galadriel gives Grimbeorn a new axe that was forged in Doriath during the First Age, in order to contest the Evil. The gift grants Grimbeorn a new AOE attack and will strengthen all Beornings in his vicinity.

(https://www.propmasters.net/images/brothers%20grimm%20axe2.jpg?osCsid=kv49c7gqm0hl42oiovc20j16g7)

The people of Doriath suffered greatly the constant pressure of Morgoth and of Fëanor's Sons at their borders; the weapon will just symbolise the same determination to contest the darkness as the one of the Skin-changers during the Third Age of Arda. Endurance was exactly one of the most fundamental traits of this millenary realm.

Zitat

''Grimbeorn, thou bearest grave tasks on thy shoulders. The Lady desireth to bestow upon thee the blessing of her people. Accept this as a gift, gallant guard of the forest. It is a silver axe of Doriath. Don't fall prey of prejudice, for its simple fashion hideth more. An ancient queen of millennia ago bewitched its blade and on the metal cast her powerful magic. Naught the axe suffereth from the passing of time, nor doth it rust as the other arts of the mortal kind. May it avail thee much in battle. Were thou to meet the Evil on thy path, thou shalt cut it apart.''

(https://www.qart.com/itemimages/items//19/36/97/a_main.jpg)

FOR

The_Necromancer0
Ealendril (he agrees with the general idea)
DieWalküre
DrHouse93
Slawek56703
Hamanathnath
WarOfTheRingVeteran
Fredius
Julio229
Garlodur
Fine
Eomer der Verbannte
SamonZwerg
Beautiful Darkness
Mornen
Kael_Silvers
Saruman der Verfluchte123
lordoflinks
makis89
OakenShield224
-DJANGO-
kingsjewel
lahe95
Skeeverboy
The Witch-King of Angmar
Dain@
Ectheldir
Bilbo Backings
FilipGeorg95
AulëTheSmith
dkbluewizard
Tiberius Ogden

This thread sprouted from the user Secret Keeper who suggested the concept of allowing Grimbeorn to be affected by Galadriel's "Gifts of Lorien". Below was my suggestion to the concept:

Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am  9. Okt 2016, 16:50

I like this idea, let me try to give my perspective. Galadriel knows of what has happened to Grimbeorn's people and should gift him with some power or weapon that would allow him to preserve the remains of his people. Here are the possible gifts of Galadriel:

Blessing of Galadriel:
Galadriel blesses Grimbeorn with the power of Nenya and gives him the power to preserve his people. All Beornings and Homsteads gain an health and armor boost.

Sindar Axe:
Galadriel gifts to Gimbeorn an ancient Sindar axe from the first age which with every strike strengthen nearby Beornings and allows him to regain some health.

Here are my two suggestions to the idea, I find the concept interesting and definitely worth some exploring.

Those were my thoughts on the matter back there but they have changed a bit due to the feedback from other users and I've now changed it a bit to this:

Axe from Doriath
Galadriel gives Grimbeorn an ancient axe from the First Age forged with the sole purpose to oppose evil. The Axe is large but light allowing Grimbeorn to strike with an AOE along with that it's magic properties strengthen nearby Beornings, making them more resistant (increase in armor and health).

Thoughts?

Edited by DieWalküre

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Walküre am 10. Okt 2016, 12:02

A very wise choice to have opened a new thread. I will quote my own remark about the possibility of this suggestion and my view. Albeit not feeling like participating in the discussion in very gameplay or balance precise terms, I really appreciate the conceptual reference to Doriath and so to the Elder Days of Arda. I deem it a very sound basis to start from.

Zitat

Although I'm not really sure about the propriety of granting Galadriel's gifts even to characters that aren't Elves or Hobbits (members of the Fellowship, by the way), if we were to consider a suitable concept, I would choose the latter one too: Galadriel hands to Grimbeorn an old axe belonging to the lost kingdom of Doriath (or to the ancient Nandor of Beleriand), which will serve him to fight the Evil as it had done in the Elder Days (in the hands of valiant Elven warriors). The people of Doriath suffered greatly the constant pressure of Morgoth at their borders; the weapon will just symbolise the same determination to contest the darkness as the one of the Skin-changers during the Third Age of Arda.

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: DrHouse93 am 10. Okt 2016, 12:30

Even if I never use Grimbeorn in a match, this looks like a nice minor addition, so I agree to give him the Axe from Doriath^^

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Slawek56703 am 10. Okt 2016, 13:05

Zitat

Galadriel gives Grimbeorn an ancient axe from the First Age forged with the sole purpose to oppose evil. The Axe is large but light allowing Grimbeorn to strike with an AOE along with that it's magic properties strengthen nearby Beornings, making them more resistant (increase in armor and health).

Thats great idea finally Grimbeorn get a gift from Lady Galadriel but i have some question .This means Grimbeorn get new weapon or his weapon gets some aura (blue for example) around it?
AOE bonus sounds good but i think armor and health bonus would be too much . How about resistance to trample for Beornings and his heal spell heal all Beornings around as a bonus ?

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 10. Okt 2016, 13:33

I think this is a great idea.  +1.  :) :) :)

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 11. Okt 2016, 19:53

Zitat

Axe from Doriath
Galadriel gives Grimbeorn an ancient axe from the First Age forged with the sole purpose to oppose evil. The Axe is large but light allowing Grimbeorn to strike with an AOE along with that it's magic properties strengthen nearby Beornings, making them more resistant (increase in armor and health).

I like the idea of the axe offering Grimbeorn and his people defense-orientated powers, it very much suits the place where it comes from, Doriath, lit. Land of the Fence, which was known for its line of defense against attacks from Melkor.

So yeah, great idea :)

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Okt 2016, 20:41

Love this idea! I wonder how an Elvish axe would look like, perhaps something like this? (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5b/c1/93/5bc193c12acd7b78f304115d2ff31ea2.jpg)

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 11. Okt 2016, 20:46

I think I prefer the axe one too, it is great conceptually-wise, I think.

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Okt 2016, 22:10

Zitat von: Fredius am 11. Okt 2016, 20:41

Love this idea! I wonder how an Elvish axe would look like, perhaps something like this? (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5b/c1/93/5bc193c12acd7b78f304115d2ff31ea2.jpg)

That's an interesting elvish axe you've got here Fredius  :D I didn't know the elves were such fans of wolves and skulls. But I like the main concept, I think it should definitely look something like that but perhaps more white. It has to "feel" light.

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 11. Okt 2016, 22:25

Zitat von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Okt 2016, 22:10

Zitat von: Fredius am 11. Okt 2016, 20:41

Love this idea! I wonder how an Elvish axe would look like, perhaps something like this? (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/5b/c1/93/5bc193c12acd7b78f304115d2ff31ea2.jpg)

That's an interesting elvish axe you've got here Fredius  :D I didn't know the elves were such fans of wolves and skulls. But I like the main concept, I think it should definitely look something like that but perhaps more white. It has to "feel" light.

How about something like this: http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120513000607/elderscrolls/images/d/d0/Ebonywaraxe.png , just with a different color? Or this one: http://store.larprealm.com/image/cache/data/Product%20Images/Epic%20Armoury/Axes/Executioners%20Axe%20IF-402403-1050x1200.png ?

Or perhaps we could design (or just sketch in Paint) our own designs? There could be a lot of interesting axes. :D

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Walküre am 11. Okt 2016, 22:42

I like the concept proposed by Fredius, though I also agree with Necro about a whiter and brighter design: the sort of fancy/magical stuff the Eldar are well acquainted with  xD

Let's not forget that anything Doriath-related is nonetheless imbued with Melian's prowess, and crafted by the finest Sindarin blacksmiths  8-)

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Fredius am 12. Okt 2016, 01:42

Yes yes ofcourse more Elvish hahaha. The reason I chose this one is because of the blade; it has a very elegant round form, and at the same time it's practical and not too fantasy like. If we remove the skull, spikes, and give the blade Elvish patterns or inscriptions it should be fine. Maybe a bit of gold influences here and there would be the cherry on top.

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 12. Okt 2016, 13:47

I do want to point out that any gift to Grimbeorn should also affect his bear form.
In the current setting I feel that Beorningers, including Grimbeorn, are not strong enough in their bear form, being too vulnerable to spears. If we increase the usefulness of the human form, the balance is completely lost.

I feel the concept should adequately consider the impact of Galadriel's gift on Grimbeorn's bear form as well, possibly increasing his unit support to fellow Beorningers. I absolutely support the idea of the axe, as it is the strongest aspect of the aggressive side of Grimbeorn's personality. On the other side, however, a certain blessing should be bestowed to the bear transformation, perhaps in the form of armour boost towards himself and surrounding Beorningers.

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 12. Okt 2016, 14:26

Agreed, the upgrade should definitely affect both the human form and bear form. Maybe it might be possible to make it that depending on the form in which Grimbeorn is it will boost the same form for Beornings? (e.g. when in human form, human beornings gain a boost and when in bear form, bear beornings gain a boost) or would it be more balanced to just make it that it affects both forms regardless of Grimbeorn's appearance?

Titel: Re: Galadriel's Gift to Grimbeorn
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 13. Okt 2016, 14:02

Depends on what boosts make sense with the shape. I feel quite cross with giving Grimbeorn a leadership because neither humans like Beorningers or bears in nature seem particularly fond of being dominated, let alone led by only one leader.

I agree that Grimbeorn is a technical leader as well as the strongest of the Beorningers, but I am pretty sure that every single one of them could defend their own house against tons of Orcs. They do not need support in that sense. Perhaps some sort of debuff to enemies that stacks with the amount of Beorningers near Grimbeorn would emphasise the fact that a pack of bears/great men is about to crush the enemy.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Jan 2017, 23:59

I sorted the first post out a bit, so that everything is now much clearer and everyone's feedback is indicated too. I deem this proposal complete and finalised. What I'm satisfied with the most is the fact that we managed to gather very positive responses even in the German forum; really, no one had even the slightest objection and they fully agreed with this great suggestion  8-)

Many thanks to Necro, who conceived the proposal in the first place, and to all the ones who participated in the discussion. MU is really the place in which people join forces to come up with valuable ideas, and threads as this one always confirm it. Now, we just have to wait and hope that the Edain Team will implement the concept in the game. Something I really wish for.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 4. Jan 2017, 02:18

I am also For this idea

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: makis89 am 4. Jan 2017, 10:20

+1 and from me  for this awesome idea...!!!

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: OakenShield224 am 4. Jan 2017, 17:23

I agree with this idea.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: kingsjewel am 13. Jan 2017, 17:11

+1

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: lahe95 am 14. Jan 2017, 16:03

I also Agree with this idea. Nicely done. :)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 14. Jan 2017, 16:24

Zitat von: lahe95 am 14. Jan 2017, 16:03

I also Agree with this idea. Nicely done. :)

Great! I will edit the post and add you to the list. Moreover, with 23 positive responses (and no negative comments!), we can say that this one is the most popular and most accepted concept of the recent new proposals; I thus guess that Necro should consider himself very proud of the outcome  ;)

I'm really delighted to have worked on these suggestions with all of you. Since they majorly consist of new (significant) additions for well-established factions (Lothlórien, Isengard and Gondor/Arnor), it really seems we were/are definitely willing to polish things even more, before the release of the next patch and, in particular, before the coming of the Misty Mountains  8-)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 14. Jan 2017, 16:40

The original idea came from the user Secret Keeper, I simply put my own spin on the idea. I'm happy everybody is liking the idea.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: The Witch-King of Angmar am 22. Jan 2017, 00:05

Very nice I must say, I am for this idea.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Jan 2017, 01:06

Zitat von: The Witch-King of Angmar am 22. Jan 2017, 00:05

Very nice I must say, I am for this idea.

Thank you for the support. I'm really glad to see that another one joins us. Given that you also participated in the debate concerning the Guards of Orthanc, may I then remind you, if you have not had the opportunity to consult them yet, of the other two major concepts that were recently being debated in the forum (by our German friends too): Narya (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34267.msg451550.html#msg451550) and Ancient Might (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31332.msg443395.html#msg443395).

If you agree or disagree with the purposes of these proposals, just share your feedback in their respective threads  :)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: The Witch-King of Angmar am 23. Jan 2017, 17:54

Thank you, I am glad to be part of such community, I will surely check out those two topics.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 27. Jan 2017, 07:54

I'm for the idea! I take a moment I want to ask the community: (a small lyrical digression) Maybe we should strengthen and Beorn in the game? After all, he also deserves attention! Creative idea strengthen Grimbeorn good! but Beorn was stronger Grimbeorna! And actually we get the opposite! Maybe we should give some impetus to the development of Beorn! And it would be true and canonical?!?

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Ectheldir am 27. Jan 2017, 16:58

I'm new to this forum but already read a bit around here to see what awaits Edain in the upcoming versions.
To the matter at hand: I really like the general concept, but I would propose a little change. In my opinion it would make a lot more sense to name the axe "The Axe of Brethil" instead of "The Axe of Doriath". I know Brethil is even a part of Doriath, so there is no huge difference, but if I hear the name Doriath I think of elves who live protected from most threats in the belt of Melian. If they would have to fight, they would strike their enemies down with bow and arrow from the cover of there forest (like Beleg Cuthalion). And if they were forced to fight an enemy head on, they would probably fight them rather with a sword than with an axe. Can you imagine an elf fighting with an axe? I can't. That just doesn't fit.
The men of Brethil on the other hand lived at the border of Doriath (as many of the men from the Vales of Anduin lived at the border of Mirkwood), outside the protection of Melians belt. So they were always threatened  by hordes of Orcs that passed through their forest, to raid it, or just to pass down south. They were the ones that had to desperately protect their forest. And and an axe is a far more fitting weapon to them than to the elves of Doriath.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Jan 2017, 17:24

Zitat von: Dain@ am 27. Jan 2017, 07:54

Maybe we should give some impetus to the development of Beorn! And it would be true and canonical?!?

The core of the concept has also to do with the idea of the endurance of the people of the woods and with Grimbeorn leading them. Whereas Beorn operates in a more, let's say, solitary context (a spell); so, should you have some ideas to propose, those ideas ought inevitably to be applied to Beorn's specific case.

As this thread is centred on a very defined topic, I thus suggest you post your brief or more structured suggestions in the appropriate places (a new thread or, as I deem better, the brief suggestions thread).

Ectheldir, thank you for sharing your very insightful opinions. Albeit agreeing with your own considerations in a purely lore-related perspective, I would rather maintain the current title unaltered. As you stated, Doriath is nonetheless the main theme of the matters involved; furthermore, most importantly, we should also consider the fact that it is Galadriel who gives him this special axe and she has in fact enchanted this weapon with her magic. There is thus the conceptual meaning of the magical/spiritual legacy of Doriath/Melian which inspires Woodsmen to fight even in the disenchanted Third Age of Arda. In light of all these elements, the wider reference to Doriath (and to Melian equally) shall symbolise those significant properties.

It was really interesting to know your thoughts about this concept. There are other important concepts that have been recently finalised, dealing with absolutely lore-related aspects (Narya, Isengard and Galadriel). I'm really curious to read what you think about them  :)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Bilbo Backings am 30. Jan 2017, 02:00

I gladly support this great proposal!

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 30. Jan 2017, 08:19

Zitat von: Bilbo Backings am 30. Jan 2017, 02:00

I gladly support this great proposal!

And I'm really pleased by that. There are even greater ones which are looking forward to being consulted by the people of this forum  ;)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 13. Mai 2017, 10:34

I guess i catch one of the other great proposal   :D
Necro your idea is very good. Not only because it underlines the role of grimbeorn, but also because all the story around it makes sense. Well done. Grimbeorn deserves his own gift  xD
I agree with this proposal  ;)

As a proposal for the axe, that's the old axe of Grimbeorn in Edain:
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/11/10679/grimbeorn.1.jpg)
With some refinement (color,resolution...) could be fitting in your opinion?

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Walküre am 13. Mai 2017, 12:45

If the model is deemed suitable, that could be a beginning to start from. We only need someone enough acquainted with graphics. Besides, thank you again for your precious contribution :)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 6. Aug 2017, 15:54

I AGREE with this, add me to the list.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Tiberius Ogden am 23. Jan 2019, 16:22

This idea isn't new - I proposed it in 2015. It's great how some things periodically return, which is, especially in Edain, completely normal. ;)

My arguments were from gameplay perspective:
When you give all gifts to heroes, that ability become useless and only occupies hero's slot and do nothing. It's the same like Sauron's influence. But in Mordor's case you at least have many buildings where you can cast it.

When Gifts of Lorien ability was announced, nine heroes could receive gift:

Level 7: Gifts of Lorien - Galadriel hands gifts from Lothlorien to a hero.
Thranduil: Gets +15% armor and commands two rows of Palace Guards with his 'Shield-Wall'-Skill.
Legolas: Gets Galadriel's bow which enhances his 'Hawk Strike' and 'Arrow Wind' effectively.
Tauriel: Is permanently capable of wielding her daggers and being protected by guards.
Haldir: Gets a white arrow instead of his golden arrow which will stun all units in wide radius.
Celeborn: Gets a royal armor that improves his defense and attack by +10%.
Rumil & Orophin: Get mighty elven armor that highly enhance their defense but lowers their speed.
Frodo: Gets Earendil's Light which is a light to him in darkest hours.
Sam: Gets the seeds of the golden wood.

But later, Tauriel was removed and implemented only via spellbook, so in total 8 heroes could receive that upgrade.
Then I stepped in and said that there is also Grimbeorn, only hero who doesn't have possibility receive gift (except Ents).

But argument against was something like that Grimbeorn would probably reject the gift, which is quite weak argument and goes even against lore, because we know that even Gimli, such elven hater, accepted gift from lady and protected three golden hairs like the greatest treasure in the world.

Grimbeorn fits to forest, like elves from Woodland realms, probably was in contact with them. But mainly - in Edain he fights for lady in Lothlorien faction, so gift from her would be obvious choice how to appreciate his efort.

In the upcoming patch, even Frodo and Sam will be removed, so only six heroes can receive gift:

- Rank 3: Gifts of Lorien. Target hero receives a precious gift, allowing Galadriel to reach him with her abilities.
* Orophin and Rumil: Elven armor that drastically increases their defenses.
* Haldir: Blessed Arrow with more damage and a larger radius than Radiant Arrow
* Celeborn: Lordly armor that increases defences and damage
* Thranduil: Royal armor and an additional row of Palace Guards for his shield wall
* Legolas: Bow of the Galadhrim that increases damage of Hawk Strike and Arrow Wind

My argument about uselessness of that slot became even more relevant.  :o ...

So definitely this thread has my support! :)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 24. Jan 2019, 00:56

Agreed, with the removal of Sam and Frodo this ability has once again lost some utility.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Fellowship am 26. Jan 2019, 19:20

I'm in favour of this suggestion because I find it really fitting for Grimbeorn.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: steadii am 28. Dez 2020, 15:10

I think that all Lothlorien heroes deserve gift in order to make Galadriels two skills more useful.

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: Isildurs Fluch am 2. Feb 2021, 17:50

I´m also in favor.  ;)

Titel: Re: The Axe of Doriath
Beitrag von: tolgayurdal am 2. Feb 2021, 20:44

I am for it.