Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Discussion and Feedback => Thema gestartet von: Lord of Mordor am 24. Okt 2015, 01:48

Titel: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 24. Okt 2015, 01:48
Share your feedback about the Edain previews and news posts with us, we're always interested to hear from you xD

Check out our most recent posts here:

- Impressions from the journey: Grond, and the new Erebor Scout (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31981.0.html)
- The Dwarves of Ered Mithrin (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31871.0.html)
- Behind the scenes: The making of Ered Mithrin (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31912.0.html)
- Concept Art: Thorin III. Stonehelm (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31981.msg416239.html#msg416239)
- Citadel of Lothlórien (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31981.msg416541.html#msg416541)
- Announcing Edain Mod 4.3: Of Iron and Frost (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32242.msg420856.html#msg420856)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Mornamarth, the Steward of Carn Dûm (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32279.msg421480.html#msg421480)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Dwarves of the Iron Hills (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32297.msg422047.html#msg422047)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Dwarves of Erebor (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32331.msg423020.html#msg423020)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Dwarves of Ered Luin (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32357.msg423693.html#msg423693)
- 2015 in Review: Edain's Best Year! (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32524.msg426917.html#msg426917)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Zaphragor, First Blade of the Witch King (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32763.msg430155.html#msg430155)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Narin, Dáin's Messenger (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32840.msg431324.html#msg431324)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Drauglin, the Beastmaster of Angmar (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32853.msg431564.html#msg431564)
- The Road to Edain patch 4.3 - Helegwen, the Winter's Arrow (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32959.msg432966.html#msg432966)
- Edain Mod 4.4 - Mae Govannen (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33425.msg439040.html#msg439040)
- The Road to Edain 4.4 - The Ring Mechanics (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33456.msg439607.html#msg439607)
- The Road to Edain 4.4 - Denethor (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33555.msg441075.html#msg441075)
-The Road to Edain 4.5: New Maps (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34081.0.html)
-The Road to Edain 4.5: Siege (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34098.0.html)
-The Road to Edain 4.5: Cirdan (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34376.0.html)
-The Road to Edain 4.5: Theodred  (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34416.new.html#new)
-The Road to Edain 4.5: The Spellbook (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34437.new.html#new)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 25. Okt 2015, 18:32
Well, I'm personally glad you're taking time for small details (like Grond and Nori) AND for sharing them with us. It's great while we wait for the next update!  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: kai69 am 26. Okt 2015, 12:14
I really like to see this little updates about your progress,its good to know what you are on to and it makes it easier to bear the waiting, not like when you know nothing about your progress or what you are doing, and of course it makes me be more excited about the next  update. You dont have to give release dates nor huge updates (only if its a big one), but things like this "we are currently doing this thing or we have finished that other thing", to keep in touch with your fans and calm down the masses. In summary, I like these upadates and to read them, its awesome to see your progress and what are you doing, keep up the good work, the edain mod is awesome.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 26. Okt 2015, 12:31
Well, all i can say is thanks for this great feedback! We will strive to continue to present these short updates.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Golem am 26. Okt 2015, 14:48
I just want to thank the edain mod for dedication for this wonderful work. Especially for the dwarves, I feel like these updates will be amazing. The ram riders are the icing on the top, you implemented them into the mod just the way which I'm sure will please everyone, keep up the amazing work.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 27. Okt 2015, 12:38
You're right, this improved design of Mirkwood does look fantastic!  :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: makis89 am 27. Okt 2015, 12:57
Every day is a better day ...!!!  :)  :) awesome work edain team as always...i can't wait for the next patch
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adamin am 29. Okt 2015, 11:49
Tell us what you think about our new Concept Art for Thorin III. Stonehelm (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31981.msg416239.html#msg416239)!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 29. Okt 2015, 11:53
Are yo userious!!!?
Are you for REA!L!!!???
This is Awesome!!! OMG!!!
But I do not like the Beard being in Two and the other Lack of Beard :(
A question will he be able to switch between Axe and Sword!? :)
But I do not think the Sword onhis Back looks good on him it makes him look mroe like Bersreker!? :)
Sorry If I am being rude...

Greetigns! :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: kai69 am 29. Okt 2015, 16:56
I sure like it a lot, but yeah, he should have a beard, it looks strange to see a dwarf without it, but his face remembers me of Torvin, the dwarf from Shadow of Mordor.

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 29. Okt 2015, 18:44
I lije the Helmet or Thorin III (but why it isn ot made from Stone o_O  [uglybunti] [uglybunti] [uglybunti])  Now seriously the Helmet is grea bu may be without the ed Feathes will be better! :)

And I have prepared few Helmets which I think will do godo job too! :)


This one without the Black/White Feathers and with the apropriate color of course! :)


Or one of these Two to represent better his Connection with Dain as his Son and bearring the Family Crest of Dain which is the Boar!? :)


Or this one with apropriate color again of course which uses the Ram which symbolizes Nobility for the Dwarves and kinda resembles his Old Helmet!? :)

Just a suggestions! :)

Greetings!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adamin am 30. Okt 2015, 19:08
I sure like it a lot, but yeah, he should have a beard, it looks strange to see a dwarf without it, but his face remembers me of Torvin, the dwarf from Shadow of Mordor.


Torvin actually was one of the inspirations for the new Design. xD
Something about his mutton chops just stuck.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 30. Okt 2015, 20:14
I actually liked quite a lot his Old Face and it really reminded me of Dain so I do not think he wil lbe bad een with his Old Face but the new is quite good to jsut a Beard and he is ready! :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 31. Okt 2015, 18:18
This new Lorien outpost is great! Building several Mirkwood's would have been weird.  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 1. Nov 2015, 16:37
I want just to say that I am realyl excited to play Lorien and MIrkwood not to mention Ered Mithrin! :)
Thank you for giving us the Realease Date!

Congratulations about tthe awesome work you ahve done as always!And respect for the hard work and realyl great Trailer created Prinz,it was awesome and really hyped me up for the Release! :)

Great job,many thnaks Edain Team! :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: kai69 am 1. Nov 2015, 17:47
Great trailer edain, I cant wait for the next Sunday, this week will feel so long. Awesome work as always.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Nov 2015, 10:37
Another great idea and implemantation of Fans wishes with those Mount Hobbits!Really great job Edai nTeam and resepct for honoring the fans ideas! :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 18. Dez 2015, 18:21
Tell us what you think about The Path of the Edain (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32349.new.html#new).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lotr1997 am 18. Dez 2015, 22:57
Amazing Edain :D I love it i cant wait to play it.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Fredius am 19. Dez 2015, 00:17
Altough the timing of announcing this kind of update wasn't the best (I believe everyone is still in the Dwarven hype :D), I must say it looks like a very promising mission. There is just one thing bothering me about the map. which is the lightning. You're using the Moria objects right now, but those objects don't have the best detail unless the Global Light Options are a bit altered. To show you what I mean I will give you two pictures:

(http://forums.revora.net/uploads/monthly_12_2015/post-17208-0-87155000-1450480317.jpg)

(http://forums.revora.net/uploads/monthly_12_2015/post-17208-0-45987200-1450480321.jpg)

See how much detail adds up to the models when the 2x Overbright Lightning option is disabled? All the other Moria obejcts will get the same effect. This is also the method EA used on their Moria map. I hope you understand my point and again nice map ;).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 19. Dez 2015, 08:05
*nerdgasm*

I can't wait to play, it looks soooo epic, especially the fact that you can play alone or with other players. Honestly guys, great job, you have blown us away one more time.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: makis89 am 19. Dez 2015, 09:22
if i understand this is a mission map, right?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adamin am 19. Dez 2015, 09:32
Yes it is, a huge one.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: makis89 am 19. Dez 2015, 09:48
ok thanks ..!!! well this is something new for me because i am a new member and i 've never play such missions in edain .it looks quite intresting .
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Fredius am 9. Jan 2016, 13:50
Veterans of Khazad dum look great, congratulations :).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 9. Jan 2016, 14:36
Yes, they do look awesome and unique; but I kinda miss the Erebor-inspired Veterans. Now we have the Arkenguard, who have almost the same armor as those in AUJ, but I liked the color scheme of the previous Veterans more.  :(
Well, time has definitely left its mark (new color) on the new Erebor armor.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 20. Jan 2016, 20:34
Zitat
2015 in Review: Edain's Best Year!
You're goddamn freaking right!!  xD
I was so lucky that it be on this glorious day that I would join the mod community. I had already been blown away by 3.8.1. But knowing that some people had to wait two years while my mere 3 month felt like an endless nightmare... wow!!
Again, you guys deserve every good thing that has happened: a striving english community, the Mod of the Year Award, ect... You brought the players a chance to keep playing the game they loved and not just that, you expanded it ten-fold. You deserve everything... except maybe this:
Zitat
What we did not expect was the sheer hatred we would receive from a very small but vocal minority. In the weeks and months after the release of 4.0, we had to weather a barrage of deeply personal attacks and even witnessed people gleefully plotting to kill members of the team. It was frankly disheartening - and extremely grotesque - to see how people could sink so low because a hobby project offered free of charge wasn't 100% to their liking.
I'd just like to get real for a sec. I was actually shocked when I read this, it was just such a happy message of achievement, effort and reward and then BOUM!! Hatred, threats of murder.... You guys never have and never will deserve such hatred, I hope you ignored them or told them to go ish kakhfê ai’d dur rugnu. You guys have put so much effort into this, never complaining, never stopping, never letting us down...
You're the most dedicated people I have ever seen, this is further proven by the amount of dead mods that I have seen. You guys keep being awesome and I wish you ten times as many Edainers this year!!
Just remember one thing: #therewillalwaysbehaters. Promise me to never give up on this beautiful project that has brought so many people together.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 20. Jan 2016, 21:42
Such a nice article ,I was really happy when I read it! Indeed it was an awesome year but I am sure that there will be even more and much better years .All this is well deserved after the hard work from you as one of the if not the most dedicated modders I have seen....

Ah the moment I saw the "evolution"  of Thorin ah and when I saw the first "Dain" based Model it took me years back,haha and I felt so damn old  [uglybunti] [uglybunti] But I guess when you enjoy a masterpiece as Edain time passes without realizing how much it is!

About the people and their threats,well just ignore them and keep on ,this is the best way to show them the strength of Edain!  :)

And the Edain Team Photo at the end made my day,haha such an awesome and fum way to introduce yourselves,really nice touch there.

At the end I want to say how proud I am for following Edain mod from so many,many years amd watch it grow even better every day thanks to you and the Fans who have helped too,they all too have my eternal thanks and respect! :-)

Greetings and best regards from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :-)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lord_ellessar am 21. Jan 2016, 00:06
Whaaaa as i saw, you have fans all around the world, from asia to America and Europe to Australia, the only place where you don't have any fans is maybe the Antarctic (and even there I'm sure that we can see a pinguin playing edain :P ) well I give you the biggest congratulations and I'm happy to be a fan of edain. Don't worry about the bad tongues, it always like this when you have pseudonyms guys thinks that they are invincible and interesting it's the same with youtubers, and clearly you are an awesome team, just because you listen you're fans. You're are the best, big smaks hugs and teddy's my axe bow and sword are your's and if in the life or death I can help you I'll do it :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: ThorinsNemesis am 21. Jan 2016, 08:26
Even though I found Edain pretty late (I found it probably some months before the release of Edain 4.0) I can say that it surely is the best mod for Bfme2 and has rightly earned its place as Mod of 2015. The quality of the mod is just outstanding, and probably the greatest thing about this mod is that it includes most things from the Lotr and Hobbit movies as well as from the lore  :).
I agree with the others, don't listen to those people's threats, there are just some people who think only their opinions are right and you should ignore them to show them that their threats don't matter  :).
I wish the Team all the good and luck, and may this year be as successful for you as it is for the mod  ;).
And, the Team's photo at the end was really nice and original, and of course funny xD.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 21. Jan 2016, 10:58
It was a nice news ; always enjoyable to come back on the past year, especially when it was that successful. Congratulations for what you have earned, and thank you for what you have done and for what you are still willing to do. Few modders keep up the good work for such a long time.  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Kalmakil am 23. Jan 2016, 15:15
Hello guys, the mod works admirably and is wonderful... But it doesn't permit me to use Imladris, Goblins and Angmar in the skirmish and war of the ring menu ! I play in the version, and I haven't seen any other problem...
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 23. Jan 2016, 15:26
Angmar, Imladris and the Misty Mountains are the remaining factions, which will be included in further patches. ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 14. Mär 2016, 10:13
Narin, Dain's Messenger (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32840.0.html).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 14. Mär 2016, 11:12
Narin is a great addition to the Mod.
Thank you, Edain Team, for having taken into consideration the Community's concept and discussions, and many thanks in particular to you, Dáin, and all the people who got involved and spent time in the general debate by presenting great proposals  :)

I'm sure the Edain Community will be absolutely amazed by this  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 14. Mär 2016, 11:16
I can't express enough my joy and how much it warms my heart that the Team liked my idea and even used it as a basic for creating something so wonderful!

Narin looks better than in my imagination.Really epic design with interesting abilities and concept.

I want to thank Edain Team for cherishing my idea and always taking in account the opinion of their Fans. And I am thankful to all who supported and liked the idea and helped me make it better so that it could be fit for the taste of Edain.

Big thanks to Edain Team,I am honored and proud to be even mentioned . Keep the epic work you have done trough the years and keep making us happy,you are the best guys...

Can't wait to crush some Orc Scum with Narin  [uglybunti]

Greetings and best regards from the Lord of the Iron Hills! :-)
P.S.Thank you Walkure my friend for the kind words,but I must say that I am really happy to be a part of such a Wonderful Community where we can create and discuss and have fun with amazing ideas.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: CragLord am 14. Mär 2016, 15:36
So, dwarven renaissance continues! :)

It is nice to see this, very nice! It is very nice to see that Edain team have recognised effort, motivation and dedication of companions of the Edain which followed this concept and its discussion, in first place dedication of our Lord Dain! :)
I will just express my admiration&support to model&set of abilities you have chosen for this hero. Impressive job as always! Can't wait to test him in game. :)

Best regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 14. Mär 2016, 17:11
So, dwarven renaissance continues! :)

It's always in progress.
It's also our duty to keep the flame alive  8-)

Yes, Dáin and Crag, it's always great when concepts originate from the Community; they are somewhat special.
Let's hope that the Community will come out with other worthy proposals  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 15. Mär 2016, 10:17
His first ability is very well thought, I can't wait to try this guy! However, I can't help sharing some concerns about the rest of his kit, despite some enthusiastic ideas:

Still, I am already fond of this new hero.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Golem am 15. Mär 2016, 14:11
I'm fairly sure that he won't be a scout hero but I'd wait for the next patch to be released. I think his weakness will be that he can't unmount and pikes can focus him down quickly. The 30 second truce sounds op, but if he needs to cast it close range I think it might balance it out. But until we can play with him can't say for sure how good or bad he is.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 15. Mär 2016, 14:25
I'm fairly sure that he won't be a scout hero but I'd wait for the next patch to be released.

The Edain Team has confirmed it on ModDB.
He won't be a Scout Hero.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 15. Mär 2016, 15:54
I never said he would be a scout hero, I was just wondering if he was as strong as a scout hero (regardless of his abilities of course).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 15. Mär 2016, 16:25
He's one of the fastest heroes, so you can use him to scout, but he doesn't have any abilities to increase his vision or detect stealth.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 15. Mär 2016, 16:30
Am I that hard to understand?  :D
I was concerned that if his damage and health are too high, he would be used for fighting instead of supporting, which is the role you designed him for. Therefore, my question was: how high are his attack damage and his health?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 15. Mär 2016, 17:01
He's obviously stronger than normal scout heroes. Support hero doesn't mean he's never meant to fight, after all heroes like Theoden also fight and he's clearly a leadership hero.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 16. Mär 2016, 10:33
Drauglin, the Beastmaster of Angmar! (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32853.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 16. Mär 2016, 18:27
Nice lore, always enjoyable to read it. :) I like his abilities, he is gonna be a strong scout hero for sure.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: makis89 am 17. Mär 2016, 11:22
I can't wait to test Drauglin in the game..!! nice abilities and cool backstory  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: CragLord am 17. Mär 2016, 13:26
Well story behind this character is really amazing!  ;)
I haven't played 3.8.1 so much, so I haven't played this hero earlier, from list of abilities it seems to be nice and strong scout hero.
I really like skin and model, one little detail which could be maybe done differently are those claws. I mean I like them, but that touch has already seen in WC3. :)   
In general, great work as always! :)

Best regards,
CragLord


Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 31. Mär 2016, 23:08
If you haven't seen her on Moddb yet, read up on Helegwen, Winter's Arrow! (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32959.msg432966.html#msg432966)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 1. Apr 2016, 00:10
New faction Revealed! (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32965.msg432987.html#msg432987)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 1. Apr 2016, 00:19
New faction Revealed! (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32965.msg432987.html#msg432987)
And what of the Ring Hero? Otherwise looking real nice, a bold choice but it seems you have managed to surprise us again.

EDIT: wait!! wait!! wait!! uhmm..... suspicion grows, I shan't spoil it but I believe Ealendril to be a conjurer of cheap tricks....
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 1. Apr 2016, 00:20
Frodo will be the ring hero.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: VectorMaximus am 1. Apr 2016, 00:49
New faction Revealed! (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,32965.msg432987.html#msg432987)
EDIT: wait!! wait!! wait!! uhmm..... suspicion grows, I shan't spoil it but I believe Ealendril to be a conjurer of cheap tricks....

I agree, if you're pondering what I'm pondering.



It's still March 31st here in the States.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Apr 2016, 09:41
I like Unicorns, but I personally prefer grotesquely fat Enchanted Horses with a pink mane and a garland of flowers  (**)


I'm sure the summoning of Brunhilde will be a nice ultimate spell  xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 1. Apr 2016, 13:52
I am very impressed on how much effort the team put into making The Hobbits.  I mean, this is exactly the way I would have imagined them.  Unicorns are a great addition, because who wouldn't want to have Unicorns on their favorite Faction?  I would request that Unicorns can mounted by Hobbit heroes,  and fly the into the enemy base with style :)

I would also like to request that Gollum become a playable hero, and him to be exactly like he was in the Battle for Middle Earth 1.  This is because Gollum was originally a Hobbit, and would obviously join them if the Hobbits just felt like going to war.  He can also ride Unicorns too, obviously.

Maybe I missed something, but it seems like the Hobbits don't have many unit upgrades.  Well luckily I'm here to give you some suggestions.  Well as we see in the films, rocks thrown by Hobbit can kill anything.  Goblins, Orcs, Heavily Armoured Uruk-hai.  And they also have excellent aim, such as Merry and Pippin somehow getting Rocks while on top of Treebeard(who should be usable as a summon) and sniping orcs with them.  So I would suggest that the Hobbits get multiple rock upgrades.  They should be able to throw Fire Stones, Silverthorne Stones, Steel Stones, Forged Stones, Master Stones, Meteor Stones, Catapult Stones, Trebuchet that Gothmog barely dodges Stones, Cannon Ball Stones, Balrog Stones (which is actually a thing in The Lord of the Rings Conquest), Shiny Stones, Grond, Bombadillo Stones, and finally, Haldir Virtual Soccer Pro Soccer Ball Stones Sponsored by GameStop (Credit to Ruuddevil for this idea).  They can available at the Citadel and cost 100 each, and you should be able to give your hobbits every upgrade at the same time. 

My last suggestion is to make Ale an be upgrade for Pippin.  We all know that Pippin likes to drink Ale, especially in Pints, and once upgraded with them, Pippin will run in random directions and use abilities when he feels like it.  But he won't be allowed to ride Unicorns, becuase Drunk Driving is illegal in some places or Middle Earth.  And we don't want to put the lives of Orc Labourers everywhere at risk.

All in all, I think the Hobbits will be a great addition to this Mod, and Hope the team continues giving us amazing faction such as this one.   ;) ;) ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 1. Apr 2016, 13:57
The comment above has really inspired me so you know I thought I'd chip and help with the Ring Hero. Once Frodo gains the Ring Hero and rideable Sauron will appear which can be ridden into battle. Of course this sauron will be protected by an army of Balrogs from the first age just to make sure that it stays balanced. xD xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 1. Apr 2016, 14:05
The comment above has really inspired me so you know I thought I'd chip and help with the Ring Hero. Once Frodo gains the Ring Hero and rideable Sauron will appear which can be ridden into battle. Of course this sauron will be protected by an army of Balrogs from the first age just to make sure that it stays balanced. xD xD
I think that is a bit weak.  Remember that Unicorn are the most amazing things ever, like The Balrogs ain't got a chance against them.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 1. Apr 2016, 14:09
What unicorns?
(http://modding-union.com/edainimg/unicornsacrified_1459510497.jpg)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 1. Apr 2016, 14:11
What unicorns?
(http://modding-union.com/edainimg/unicornsacrified_1459510497.jpg)
  :o :o :o :o :o
Mordor Will Pay For This!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Leri_weill am 1. Apr 2016, 16:57
Nooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooo poor unicorns :'(

But that was a great April Fool. If you hadn't added the unicorn I would've thought it was real ^^
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 2. Apr 2016, 16:05
It's getting a bit cold in here, isn't it?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 2. Apr 2016, 18:01
(http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/715/714436/sshot0002.jpg)
Here among these dark peaks, the stronghold to bring ruin to the north kingdom.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 2. Apr 2016, 18:10
That screenshot is brilliant!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 2. Apr 2016, 18:50
It's getting a bit cold in here, isn't it?
Here among these dark peaks, the stronghold to bring ruin to the north kingdom.
You guys smell that? Sounds like we might be seeing a patch soon with all the mysterious teasers  :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: DreamWar am 12. Mai 2016, 09:11
Hey all - new to the forums and Edain in general.

So, a while ago I tried playing Edain - and I thought I didn't like it because of the built plots. This system was new to me as I only played the original Battle for Middle Earth: Two and the ''official community'' patches. I was so used to the build scenario that I really struggled to adapt to a completely different play-style.

However, recently (in the last few days) I decided to try it again and actually give it an attempt. I admit that the first time I tested it, I briefed over the factions and eventually raged quit because I was reading all the abilities and functions for half the game while getting pummeled by Easy AI. (Yes). There is so much that it just overwhelms me, (of course in a good way).

Now? I believe I have gotten over the built - plot mechanic as I am so amazed at the current build. I am still analyzing all the abilities and powers but the modification is so rich. The amount of work the developers have put in is quite astonishing. I love it so far,  and haven't noticed any issues what so ever (apart from the under-tuning and over-tuning of some aspects of the game.

Just wanted to give my thanks of this modification expansion.

Also, I don't see much point in creating a new topic for a quick question - but I've noticed some things have ''hidden abilities''. Example - if you have Sauron with the One Ring and he is level ten, if you press "S", he legitimately gains triple movement speed, damage and faster weapon swing. I am unsure if this is intended. Would using this in competitive play be frowned upon?

Thanks in advance!
Kind Regards!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 12. Mai 2016, 12:42
Great news, I'd like to take this opportunity to shamelessly promote the edain wiki as a great place to learn about the mod, we're still building it up but we've got a lot a stuff down already. (Give my signature a click)

The Sauron thing is either a bug or an easteregg, you can always report it on the bug thread.

Welcome to the Edain :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: DreamWar am 12. Mai 2016, 13:21
Yeah, already checked out the Edain information site. Good stuff! ;)
I will post the Sauron thing on the bug forum. I was just curious about Sauron as he doesn't seem like an ''army killer'' without that ability as his damage is relatively low against heroes. Hell, even Aragorn can destroy him.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Mai 2016, 14:22
Hey all - new to the forums and Edain in general.

So, a while ago I tried playing Edain - and I thought I didn't like it because of the built plots. This system was new to me as I only played the original Battle for Middle Earth: Two and the ''official community'' patches. I was so used to the build scenario that I really struggled to adapt to a completely different play-style.

However, recently (in the last few days) I decided to try it again and actually give it an attempt. I admit that the first time I tested it, I briefed over the factions and eventually raged quit because I was reading all the abilities and functions for half the game while getting pummeled by Easy AI. (Yes). There is so much that it just overwhelms me, (of course in a good way).

Now? I believe I have gotten over the built - plot mechanic as I am so amazed at the current build. I am still analyzing all the abilities and powers but the modification is so rich. The amount of work the developers have put in is quite astonishing. I love it so far,  and haven't noticed any issues what so ever (apart from the under-tuning and over-tuning of some aspects of the game.

Just wanted to give my thanks of this modification expansion.

Also, I don't see much point in creating a new topic for a quick question - but I've noticed some things have ''hidden abilities''. Example - if you have Sauron with the One Ring and he is level ten, if you press "S", he legitimately gains triple movement speed, damage and faster weapon swing. I am unsure if this is intended. Would using this in competitive play be frowned upon?

I'm very happy, DreamWar, that you made up your mind a bit and considered the whole context of the Edain Mod more carefully. I know, it could be difficult, initially, to adapt to the new/old building style of BFME1, but it's definitely worth a try  :)

Of course, one of the main pillars of the Edain Mod is exactly the far more complex and smarter mechanics of the game, along with a more prominent lore accuracy, the very spirit and atmosphere of the two cinematographic trilogies and a simpler yet very solid and rational structure. There is a lot to know and to understand deeply, if you are really intended to fully enjoy this modification; if you have any doubt or question, you can find many answers both via the Edain WIKIA (which the kind Necromancer has contributed to so well) and the official news on this forum and on ModDB as well.

Furthermore, I think that posts of this kind had better be part of more suitable threads, as the official and main feedback topic concerning the Edain Mod 4.0 in its entirety. I will thus merge everything with that specific thread.

--- MERGED ---
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 12. Mai 2016, 15:13
Zitat
Hey all - new to the forums and Edain in general.

So, a while ago I tried playing Edain - and I thought I didn't like it because of the built plots. This system was new to me as I only played the original Battle for Middle Earth: Two and the ''official community'' patches. I was so used to the build scenario that I really struggled to adapt to a completely different play-style.

However, recently (in the last few days) I decided to try it again and actually give it an attempt. I admit that the first time I tested it, I briefed over the factions and eventually raged quit because I was reading all the abilities and functions for half the game while getting pummeled by Easy AI. (Yes). There is so much that it just overwhelms me, (of course in a good way).

Now? I believe I have gotten over the built - plot mechanic as I am so amazed at the current build. I am still analyzing all the abilities and powers but the modification is so rich. The amount of work the developers have put in is quite astonishing. I love it so far,  and haven't noticed any issues what so ever (apart from the under-tuning and over-tuning of some aspects of the game.

Am I the only one who just loves hearing this? It reminds me of me, when I first opened up Edain, which is already like more than half a year ago. Time sure flies when you enjoy things :P.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Mai 2016, 16:05
Personally, I'm always delighted to think that the Edain Mod is getting more polished every update. I believe this was one of the reasons why it recently had a huge success, surpassing everyone's expectations, I guess; above all, the incredible growth of the International Community and the winning of the MOTY contest.

So, the question is: where are we intended to head to? Near perfection?  :P
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 12. Mai 2016, 16:53
Well, I try to be realistic about the meaning of ''perfection'', but Edain surely is of excellent quality overall. You know a mod is of excellent quality, when people start to nitpick about the voice of a hero haha!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Mai 2016, 18:14
You know a mod is of excellent quality, when people start to nitpick about the voice of a hero haha!

True, more or less. But, honestly, Dáin's and Thranduil's sound sets, for example, really needed to be overhauled for the sake of the Mod's high standards, and I am very glad that Dáin managed to cut very proper sounds.

So, in some cases, being obsessed with details is a moral duty  :D
At least, that is my 'perfectionist'-like approach. Do you (people involved in the discussion) feel to have other specific types of approach?  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Leri_weill am 12. Mai 2016, 20:13
In French we say : "Le diable se cache dans les détails".
--> Evil hides in details  xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Mai 2016, 20:37
In French we say : "Le diable se cache dans les détails".
--> Evil hides in details  xD

I find this saying very offensive  :D
Life would be terrible without details  :P
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 12. Mai 2016, 21:37
If we're doing french sayings I'll chip in:
Le mieux est l'enemi du bien (better is okay's worst enemy)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Leri_weill am 13. Mai 2016, 13:11
In French we say : "Le diable se cache dans les détails".
--> Evil hides in details  xD

I find this saying very offensive  :D
Life would be terrible without details  :P

It is not the meaning of the quote : evil hides in details because you've got to chase him, to kick him out of the details. If you don't, he remains in the details. xD
I'm not saying at all that details aren't important :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 16. Mai 2016, 16:07
So I was re-reading the 4.3.2 patch notes and I stumbled across this:

"...and Dwarven towers should no longer be built automatically around your forest."

Luckily our forests are now protected from those evil Dwarven Towers :)  The elves will certainly be happy.

Gotta love typos  :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 16. Mai 2016, 21:52
4...3...2...1 sounds more like a countdown to me!  :D
But it's nice to have a fix patch that soon. :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 16. Mai 2016, 22:19
Zitat
4...3...2...1 sounds more like a countdown to me!
I thought the exact same thing! Couldn't help but laugh, while reading the title and your post.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Palpou am 17. Mai 2016, 02:22
Hi all !
I didn't play since the release of 4.2 with elves.
So I updated everything and played tonight.

Angmar is really fun to play, and Dwarves too (Iron Hills ++, I didn't play them a lot before).
I couldn't see everything because I got my ass kicked by "easy" elves.. A shame. IA sounds a lot more aggressive.

Congratulations  :P
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 17. Mai 2016, 08:25
Not only is the AI more aggressive, but it was also holistically improved and made far more challenging. It is not so much restrained anymore, now, from using advanced features as superior spells and other game mechanics  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Palpou am 17. Mai 2016, 11:20
Not only is the AI more aggressive, but it was also holistically improved and made far more challenging. It is not so much restrained anymore, now, from using advanced features as superior spells and other game mechanics  :)

Yes, I read it in the changelog, for the spells :)
But I litterally had all Elve's Heroes in my base. There was a banquet in my skulls.
I'm looking forward to suggestions and Strategies on your Wiki ^^
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 26. Mai 2016, 19:21
Edain 4.4: Mae Govannen! (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,33425.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 26. Mai 2016, 20:08
Yes, finally. Imladris, my favourite, you have come! The heroes also being tied to the knowledge gathering is very interesting. I wonder how it will pan out. The loremasters and the new siege units sound and look very promising. I can't wait!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 26. Mai 2016, 20:28
Imladris does look incredibly cool.  The Library system sounds very interesting.  I am very much looking forward to playing as them. 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Leri_weill am 26. Mai 2016, 20:32
HYPE IS REAL
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 26. Mai 2016, 20:35
Great news. I'm glad to see such a wonderful catapult. :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: VectorMaximus am 26. Mai 2016, 20:45
AT LAST! IMLADRIS IS COMING! Noldor forever! Really though, it's looking amazing, the catapult is perfect in my opinion, and I really like the light-bringer rework. SO HYPED.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Mai 2016, 02:09
Zitat
In that time the stronghold and refuge of Imladris, that Men called Rivendell, was founded by Elrond Half-elven; and long it endured.
The Silmarillion - Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

Zitat
His house was perfect whether you liked food, or sleep, or work, or story-telling, or singing, or just sitting and thinking best, nor a pleasant mixture of them all. Evil things did not come into that valley.
The Hobbit - A Short Rest

The closest resemblance of what stands beyond the Sea, in the grey mortal World  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 2. Jul 2016, 14:13
Hello people,

I hope this is the best place to give feedback on the update around Denethor, because I wanted to point out something.
With the old Denethor, his ability to promote a banner carrier to a Captain of Gondor also gave the battalion resistance to fear. The current design doesn't have that property anymore. I wonder for what reason this is: will Aragorn's leadership be extended; is it deemed unneccesary since all level 5 battalions are fearless; or will it still be attributed to Denethor's level 10 passive ability?

Thanks for the answer in advance!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 6. Okt 2016, 16:31
May I just say that the whole Huorn (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31981.msg446844.html#msg446844) addition is simply great and very much fine-tuned in the general context of the faction; as always, you managed to implement a unique concept that makes the overall faction-structure more consistent with the lore and with the other factions' own differentiation (the 'Eagles issue' has finally been resolved properly).

The fact that the general proposal initially came from the Community and was consequently debated by people adds another significant aspect to the final outcome  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: CragLord am 6. Okt 2016, 17:29

Ehhh, when I just remember time we spent on that topic.  :P xD
Very nice implementation indeed. :) I am so excited to see this change along all others. Some serious lorewise shaping in next update. It is very promising and nice to see that. Huorn is really magnificent!  (**)
Big thanks to Edain team! 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 6. Okt 2016, 19:33
Ehhh, when I just remember time we spent on that topic.  :P xD

I was exactly thinking about you, dear Crag  xD

Your unceasing endeavour to develop those proposals is really admirable and anything you suggested is absolutely sound (details and strong arguments). Just like the marvellous outcome Dáin and you achieved in regards of battlewagons. Thank you very much for your precious efforts.

Grazie  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: CragLord am 6. Okt 2016, 19:56
No, thank you my friend! :) But I wasn't initiator of that topic, just really like it from start. 
Your kind words and comprehensive attitude towards all topics and other people, are something really special, and we should be happy to have such good moderator and open minded person around forum. :) It is always pleasure to communicate, discuss or create some proposals (no matter how small or big they are) with  you or any other dedicated Edainer.  ;)

Saluti!  :)

PS.
Just like the marvellous outcome Dáin and you achieved in regards of battlewagons.

Ehhh, hope one day that will also be part of some siege rework, in some
adequate way.  :)  ;) Or some elven foresight is on work here? xD

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 6. Okt 2016, 20:02
Or some elven foresight is on work here? xD

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 11. Nov 2016, 15:37
The Road to Edain 4.5 - New maps (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34081.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 11. Nov 2016, 18:11
Sweet, new maps! Especially looking forward to the new 1v1 map and the FOI revision. I also like the idea of a Khand map and hope that we will see more of those kinds of map in the future, since much of these regions are unexplored.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 11. Nov 2016, 19:37
Such very interesting maps here. Particularly, I'm quite thrilled about Eryn Vorn. Vast maps really excite me: so many things to do, and, as Odysseus wrote, many eerie places to explore  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 19. Nov 2016, 01:09
It's great to see the new Siege update information!

There has been put a lot of thinking into the process of reworking the current siege dynamis and this really shows the dedication of the team to get the best possible result with this mod. I believe this topic is more of a priority than adding new factions or arbitrary improvements to the playing style, so I trust the ET completely.

The differentiation between defender and attacker in a siege will certainly create a vibrant siege aspect to the late game, as hopefully the defender has more chances to respond to a full scale assault. The citadel pantry and the changed upgrading system of resource buildings will add to the sequences of a siege one has to go through.

I wonder to what extent siege weapons will be used less to attack outer build plots when regular troops can do the trick more effectively, and more to plan out a siege. Perhaps the movement speed of siege weapons can be reduced to make them less useful in the field, but more in front of castles.

Great job, and please continue your fantastic work. You have me hooked!  ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Sawman am 19. Nov 2016, 05:07
Hello I'd just like to say that its great that your trying to fix the siege problem in this mod because right now you either get someone who spams rams/ rushes them, or sits on catapults and destroys you while you can do nothing about it. But this new siege system/ econ system is the totally wrong way to go about it

Problems/concerns I have with it

1. Siege takes less damage from arrow towers? They already basically take no damage from them in the current system why make them take less?

2.  The current eco system is fine the way it is, this new system is not going to help the defending player at all it is just makes even harder to do because you either one, wont have any command points or two, you wont have any money and in the current system you can have a balance of both. This new system I feel will just ruin the gameplay and it will hurt some factions very badly and I think it should remain in its current form

Some side notes to this

1.Most people probably won't think of this at first, but the Lothlorien economy will be so stupidly good if this goes through, because everyone else is getting nerfed not to mention that they already have one of the best ecos in the current patch.

2.Factions that will suffer from this greatly are Gondor,Imladris, and Angmar

Gondor/Imladris problems: It will take you 5 minutes to just buy upgrades with this system and that doesn't seem fair to me that they suffer to this new system

Angmar: with this new system their eco will be so bad because right now it is more beneficial to put both pantry's on outer farms and full resources on your inner farms that's the best way to make money with them and now you can't do that anymore and it will hurt them really bad in the bank if this new system is added

 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 19. Nov 2016, 15:32
I believe this topic is more of a priority than adding new factions or arbitrary improvements to the playing style, so I trust the ET completely.

Your trust is well placed  ;)

Yes, siege and other aspects had the priority. As we discussed together about what may be reworked in regards of the Misty Mountains and other new possible inclusions, we got to grips with the great variety of chances at stake. It is thus comprehensible why perfecting the mechanics of the game even more had to come before the release of a new faction (and what a faction!).

As I often pointed out, this will make it easier for the Edain Team and for us to debate and propose improvements concerning the last chapter of this planned journey: because we have much more time.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: PythonX35 am 19. Nov 2016, 20:07
I'd like to start by saying that I have a tremendous amount of respect for the Edain team for all the work they have done in creating this mod and making it what it is today.  With that said, I would like to discuss the new economy system that they are planning on implementing, and why I believe that it will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of the game.

The massive differentiation between internal and external resource buildings accompanied by the new citadel upgrade will diminish a significant element of strategy to the game and have a significantly negative impact on balance. 

With the current system you have to plan out how you want to upgrade your economy buildings to allow yourself to get the maximum benefit between resource generation, command point limit, and forward mobility.  When I say forward mobility I am referring to the defensive upgrades that help create a place for you from which to defend and press forward to attack the enemy.  If you play smart like I do, then the strategy for upgrading your resource buildings will change depending on the faction you are playing, the map you’re playing on, and the current status of the match.  This new system will force players to spend half of their internal structures on CP and the other half on resource generation. 

This will have a significantly negative impact on factions like Angmar, because currently the best system for Angmar is to go full resource generation on internal plots and full CP on external since they don’t produce as much income. However, with the new system if they want to get to full CP then they will need to have several of their internal buildings and several external buildings dedicated to CP instead of being able to dedicate all external buildings to CP.  I will provide some math to help explain this better.  Currently you can get to full CP as Angmar with four external resource buildings going pantry one and then three of those four going pantry two.  This means that you are receiving 1200 command points from those four external resource plots.  On certain maps it can be difficult to get four external resource buildings, so even if you can only get three external resource buildings providing you with 360 CP per building, you can still receive an additional 1080 CP.  In the new system, even with the citadel upgrade of 600, you will still need an additional 600 CP to get to the cap. This means you will need five external resource buildings going pantry, which is extremely unrealistic in most cases, thus forcing you to then spend your valuable internal plots on CP limit.  On the other hand, this system will greatly benefit a faction like Lothlorien, because they will never have to expend resources on pantry for a standard resource building.  The reason for this is because they will be able to get to full CP with just one Border Guardhouse and the citadel upgrade.  This allows Lothlorien to then expend everything on full resource generation.

This new system also hurts other factions like Gondor and Imladris in a different way, because the research time to get to the next tier for your resource buildings is way too long.  A five minute research time prevents Gondor from even getting Banner Carriers in the earlier stages of the game. 

Lastly, it makes very little sense for the higher risk buildings to only provide half the benefit in comparison to the safe and secure buildings.  Why should a building that requires a greater amount of attention to defend and is at a significantly greater risk of being destroyed not be as valuable as a building that is safe and secure behind a network of defenses.   It also makes absolutely zero sense for the defensive upgrade to provide the archer tower only to internal resource buildings, especially when the external settlements are the ones that need it the most, since they are at a far greater risk to be attacked.

In conclusion I think that the current system has a few flaws, but overall is a great system that does not need to be completely overhauled.  This new system diminishes elements of strategy and will have a significantly negative impact on the balance of game.  However, if this is the route that the Edain team continues to follow, then I will strongly suggest that the benefits provided by both internal and external resource buildings be the same.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 20. Nov 2016, 02:47

+1 to all of this. I'm most concerned about the lack of defense measures on external plots, but I agree with everything you said.

I must say I really like the rest of the changes, but this economy system is something I'm not very excited about.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Elite KryPtik am 20. Nov 2016, 10:39
I basically mirror Sawman and Python's points, and I will add this: With the new system Mordor is going to be incredibly strong with the pantry upgrade, since they don't need anything but basic orcs early game. Additionally, this will hurt Rohan's already bad eco. Finally, I think this will lead to the same basic setup in every single game for every faction, everybody will end up getting nothing but pantry outside and nothing but production inside, since the Citadel Pantry gives you enough combined with external build plots, and maybe 1 internal building with pantry. If the main reason for making this change is to "streamline" the economy system and make it easier, its doing the exact opposite, instead making it much harder for certain factions.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 18. Dez 2016, 17:53
I was very happy to see the update on Círdan a few days ago. It seems his personality is now much better reflected in-game, focusing on supporting ships, buildings and siege engines. Very cool concept.

However, I would like to start/renew the debate on Narya, the Ring of Fire, which he carries and actively wields in this conceptualisation. I believe this is a strong violation of the lore with regards to the time period during which the Edain Mod has organised the game.

During the War of the Ring Círdan never even wore Narya, and there are some textual references from Tolkien convincing enough to suggest he never meant to wield it either. Now I understand the ET's interpretation of the Narya ability, which is unique, and it shows perhaps a more undercover use of the Ring (similar to how Gandalf never openly shows his wearing it, or channelling his powers through it). What bothers me most is that both versions of Círdan (representing Arnor in Third Age ca. 1975, and Imladris in Third Age ca. 2941-3018) should not have the Ring: he had already given it to Gandalf as he arrived on the western shores of Middle-Earth at the beginning of the Third Age.

I really hope a debate will be sparked in the community in order to convince the team of this lore violation. In terms of implementing Narya in the mod (like Vilya and Nenya are respectively with Elrond and Galadriel), I have some suggestions to incorporate it with Gandalf.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 18. Dez 2016, 18:09
Your timing is simply perfect, Garlodur. We are in fact discussing about a possible repatriation (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34215.msg450484.html#msg450484) of Narya to its legitimate owner during the War of the Ring: Gandalf.

I have been personally accepting the idea of Círdan wielding the Ring of Fire until recently, but I eventually made up my mind and shifted to the lore-accuracy issue which is ever present in dealing with the Edain Mod. I thus agree with you. Nothing to add under this perspective  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 28. Jan 2017, 10:32
This update has alreadybeen published on ModdB some time ago, but for all who haven't seen it yet:
The Road to Edain 4.5: Cirdan (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34376.new.html#new)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 12. Feb 2017, 10:47
The Road to Edain 4.5: Theodred  (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34416.new.html#new)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 14. Feb 2017, 15:53
Never expected to see work done on Theodred but it is certainly a very pleasant surprise. The Edain Team clearly has a strong focus on bringing siege more to the foreground and there are wonderfully still ways in which they can find niches for abilities, heroes and units.

A few questions though: will the attack outpost still fire arrows at nearby enemies or will it only spawn NPC or creep-like Westfold soldiers who will attack any enemy building in range automatically?
Also, the Hay Cart and the Petardiers can be recruted there but will they also have a place in existing buildings like the Armory (Hay Cart) or the Archery Range (Petardiers after Fire Arrow upgrade)?

All in all very excited to see Theodred in action: this stance system gives a lot of in-game utlities and tactical opportunities.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 14. Feb 2017, 17:24
No, the tower doesn't shoot arrows anymore. But the spawned units can be controlled through the attack orders of the tower.
Hay cards and Petardiers can be recruited also in normal buildings of Rohan.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 17. Feb 2017, 19:30
The Road to Edain 4.5: The Spellbook (http://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34437.new.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 17. Feb 2017, 20:10
This is awesome! The other day I was thinking about possible spellbook layouts, but I'd never come up with this one! It will make the players able to focus on whatever strategy they want, and I'm always hyped for more LOTR uniqueness in the mod. I can't wait to play with the new changes, thanks for your amazing work!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Slawek56703 am 17. Feb 2017, 22:23
That looks really impressive guys you make splendid work on reworking spellbook tree for even better strategic view and this gives player new paths and choices . I can't wait to see those changes along with new and reworked spells in 4.5 .
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 24. Feb 2017, 10:47
The Road to Edain 4.5: Faction-specific spellbooks (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34454.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 24. Feb 2017, 13:56
Nice to see you helping out with the updates Trapper! I do enjoy me some of your maps :D.

I have to say, initially, I was against the changing of the spellbook, because it had proven to work, but now, I am finally starting to adapt. The lazy point and click heal spells are gone it seems, which took a fair bit of time to adjust to, but in the end, I think it is for the better.

Testing these things internally has been fun!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Sawman am 24. Feb 2017, 18:17
Alright well now that the Gondor spell book is out I will tell you what you did right and wrong in my opinion.

The right:

1. You got rid of arrow volley for barrage looks op but we will see
2. You made GTW better
3. You made Rohan answers better

The wrong:

1. Grey company was fine the way it was if you wanted to improve it you should've just gave them fire arrows or just made them do more damage in general because now it's just going to be useless
2. I know I'll get a lot of flak for saying this but YOU GOT RID OF HEAL? I'm sorry but why, you the Edain Team said it yourself you want to try to keep iconic things in the mod and heal is one of if not the most iconic bfme ability ever, it has never changed, it's always been for the good factions and for good reason. I just don't understand you were so hell bent on keeping Gandlafs ability roster the same because it's so "iconic" but he has changed through out the history of bfme, how much health he has, how much he costs, does he give leadership etc
 But heal has always been the same and should remain through out all good factions

Just some thoughts
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 24. Feb 2017, 18:38
Thanks for your Feedback!

The Grey Company now has a real reason to exist in the Gondorian spellbook. With its healing abilities and the diversity of the Summoned troops the concept is more complete than it was before. It wasnt necessarily about making the spell stronger but giving it a viable and fitting role in the spellbook of Gondor

Furthermore we understand that the healing spell was a very comfortable and popular spell before, but that is the exact reason we decided to remove it. It was existent in multiple spellbook, which was a real dealbreaker for the spellbook overhaul.
We hope you can find different ways to heal your army in the upcoming patch (Wells, Aragorn or Grey Company).
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 24. Feb 2017, 18:58
A lot of people will miss the Heal or miss it already, you're not alone with that one. I personally would have much preferred it over the repair as well, but you can't have everything I suppose. The Grey Company on the other hand has actually become more useful imo, the healing capabilities of Halbarad and the Twins are very strong. The previous iteration with three archers obviously had more offensive potential (which still wasn't a lot for 6 SP), but this one makes up for it with its utility.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 24. Feb 2017, 23:10
Indeed. The removal of the healing spell will require a major adjustment, but in the end, I think it was a good idea, because out of the initial three tier 1 spells, there was usually very little reason to not go for the heal, because it is an ability that is always useful, and scales very well. It was an oppressive ability, when it comes to making a choice in your spellbook, if you catch my drift.

Not to devalue the ''iconic'' ability argument of course, it is definetely a valid argument. However, you can see that Edain puts more emphasis on uniqueness or a niche if necessary.

Nevertheless, it remains hit or miss. The new Grey Company has exceptional utility, and utility always shines at higher levels of play if you know how to make use of it as a player. I predict it will be a hit. We'll see about the removal of the heal spell. That will probably be a tougher pill to swallow. Maybe we'll see Wells now? I certainly hope so.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Feb 2017, 23:33
I feel I can relate to Odysseus, in the sense that I'm adapting to the new spellbook structure more and more as time passes, along with considering each significant aspect with a more insightful mindset.

Apart from internal testing, it's absolutely wonderful to notice how further steps towards uniqueness/differentiation are being constantly made. Specifically, other Mods may excel in certain aspects, but I believe that the Edain Mod is the only one which can boast the extraordinary quality of following in the footsteps of the BFME series, of offering innovative mechanics and extremely smart systems (in a radically new spirit), of creating a very multicoloured universe and of feeding from all the canonical sources equally (from LOTR and the Hobbit films at the same time). It's indeed this coherent harmony and solid architecture what I haven't found yet in other projects. May things continue along this successful path.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Slawek56703 am 5. Mär 2017, 17:46
I like new effect of Sauron Eye spell .
Nice to see Edain Team changed Endless Hordes spell with Banners of the Black Land to avert bugs , but i have question :
Does Mordor, Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur Orc Warriors will no longer get Banner upgrade ?

I like this new Summon Overseers spell making this unit more unique , but I have questions : Will AI use this spell too and does this mean overseers no longer will be recruitable and also how Extension of Power tasks to make Sauron level up will be affected by this change or maybe it remain unchanged ?

Overall good work ET like always :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 1. Apr 2017, 08:17
The Road to Edain 4.5: The Lord of the Iron Hills (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34555.msg455544.html#msg455544)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 1. Apr 2017, 11:41
Damn, really hyped for the rework!  Love the new Dain.  (**)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 1. Apr 2017, 12:04
The new Dain is so awesome, the best thing that has ever been done in BFMEII! I hope to finally see Déagol in the Hobbit Faction, that's the Hero I want the most, but he is tied with Odo Proudfoot.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 1. Apr 2017, 12:29
Is the Dain rework an April Fools? If so, that is evil. Otherwise, I really like the new Dain, which makes me think how is Old Dain reworked?
My only suggestion would be to rename Diplomacy of the Strongest to Vendetta, as the current name is too long, and for me Vendetta is iconic. 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 2. Apr 2017, 00:22
As most of you have already guessed, this update was our April Fools. Thank you all for participating, and we hope you had fun.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 2. Apr 2017, 00:44
As most of you have already guessed, this update was our April Fools. Thank you all for participating, and we hope you had fun.
You guys are evil to make something people want, reworking of Dain, into an April Fools Joke. I did not have fun.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 2. Apr 2017, 02:12
Zitat
You guys are evil to make something people want, reworking of Dain, into an April Fools Joke. I did not have fun.
Ooh boy, we have a special snowflake here 8-|. I also would like to see Dain of Iron Hills return to his old self again in the future, but I saw the date and snorted. Take it easy mate.
I hope all is well for the rest :).
We evil masterminds at Edain will continue scheming for world domination *laughs in evil*.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 2. Apr 2017, 03:19
*laughs in evil*.

Hey! That's my job  :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Apr 2017, 08:24
Hello ! (Sorry for my English)
Great joke  :D! And at the same time very sad. A great joke is because you with such a creative have raised this news! Original :) and insidious :(!
But still I will ask: Will Dain (both) be redone in the future  xD???
And in general in the near future will there be new news ???
I will be very grateful for your reply. xD xD xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 2. Apr 2017, 12:22
We will likely do a few more hero reworks in 4.5, but I can't promise anything yet.
The next news, we have prepared get delayed due to some development issues. So there will be news again.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Apr 2017, 14:12
You guys are evil to make something people want, reworking of Dain, into an April Fools Joke. I did not have fun.

There wouldn't be much point in coming up with an ineffective April Fool. I guess it's consequential that something ought to have some sort of impact on people. By the way, as FG's words might infer, it's not impossible that they do opt for overhauls concerning heroes, someday in the future. Something I'm really looking forward to.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 2. Apr 2017, 14:55
You guys are evil to make something people want, reworking of Dain, into an April Fools Joke. I did not have fun.

There wouldn't be much point in coming up with an ineffective April Fool. I guess it's consequential that something ought to have some sort of impact on people. By the way, as FG's words might infer, it's not impossible that they do opt for overhauls concerning heroes, someday in the future. Something I'm really looking forward to.
You are right in that an April Fools joke needs to be effective, but I would argue this one felt like a joke at the community's expense. As someone who has both promoted the need for change among the Dains and seen widespread support for that change this feels like the Edain Team acknowledged the desire for that change but rather than act on it decided to make it into a joke concept which leaves a sour taste in my mouth. To put it into perspective imagine if they made your Galadrial Concept into an April Fools Joke. In any case judging from a quick glace at Mod DB, most people liked the joke concept more then the current Dain.

I do really like Charge of the Iron Hills however, and I think that would be a wonderful ability to have on Young Dain, and would allow the Barracks to be given to Old Dain thus eliminating the lackluster troop summoning ability. 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Apr 2017, 16:37
You are right in that an April Fools joke needs to be effective, but I would argue this one felt like a joke at the community's expense.

It's certainly noble that you hold your ideas and propositions in high consideration, but, coming from someone who is quite acquainted with the most diverse typology of concepts, I would advise you not take too much seriously something that shouldn't deserve such attention. The 1st of April is like carnival: an exceptional parenthesis, in which the customary rules of reason or logic don't apply with reality for a day. One should thus view that as what it truly represents; that is, a pure and simple joke.

Also, if they were to make my proposal into an April Fool, I would be much honoured, for it would mean that the suggestion at least succeeded in sparking some kind of interest, somewhere throughout the dark pits of this forum  :D
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 30. Apr 2017, 00:33
The Road to Edain 4.5: Isengard's new Spellbook. (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34615.msg456886.html#msg456886)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 30. Apr 2017, 00:43
Thanks. :P
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 30. Apr 2017, 00:44
You're welcome. Just the ordinary administration and management  xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 1. Mai 2017, 17:34
Great to see Isengard's Spell Book reworked. It's looking lovely and the revamp makes a lot of spells more appealing. I have some feedback and questions too:

The Vision of the Palantir spell now serves a clear role in the early game separated from the Crebain upgrade bought at the Citadel: great way of dividing these.

The Tainted Land spell I agree works much better with Isengard than in Mordor: it seems Saruman had much greater influence on the lands in less time than Sauron ever did in Mordor. This direct implementation of fast extension of defertilised land fits well with Isengard's concept of a growing industry.
When I wondered for myself what changes would be made in the Spell Books, I thought there might be a way to combine the spells of Devastation and Tainted Land, since they share the thematic of destroying nature, but then the strategic uses of the two spells differ significantly, so you made the right choice for balance over theme.

Regarding Saruman of Many Colours I am quite confused as it seems the power is barely improved but costs 3 Points more, whereas Gandalf the White in Gondor is improved much more and costs only 1 point more. I think their power should be similar, unless Saruman is already stronger than Gandalf the Grey, making both Spell upgrades rather a way of equalising their strengths.
I also find the description not suiting, since it is only implied in the movies that Saruman is doing Sauron's dirty work. In the books his motivations are much clearer, trying to find the One Ring for himself and rule all over Middle-Earth, and he defies the Nazgul when they have come to get rapport by lying to them about his knowledge of the Shire and Gandalf. Anyhow, some interpretations regarding the 'Many Colours' aspect see it rather that in an attempt to be all-powerful Saruman loses his pure white robe, which symbolises his blurred intentions. I would like to see the change of description more fitting to the lore of the books over the movies.

About the Fuel the Fires Spell, I already read in the German feedback that the spawned Lumbermill will come with the resource upgrade (that is, in the new system I assume it counts as an external build plot?). Does this spell mean that Lumbermills can no longer be bought at Settlement plots, and what will happen to the bonus of cost reduction of buildings?

The spell Minions of the White Hand is an equally interesting renovation and certainly very unique, having three kinds of weak summons rather than one strong one. I assume the role of the Warg Archers was questionable anyway, when players rather used them for their trample abilities. The mounted Traitors of Rohan form a proper alternative here. I like the looks of the Wildmen Plunderers, are they the same as when regular Wildmen get their Heavy Armour upgrade (have to admit I never got Wulfgar to level 10 :o)?
Then, another question, does Grishnack only spawn with his orcs or also with the other summons? I also wanted to point out that Isengard has many options to deal with heroes, how do you see Grishnack stands out and differs from the existing options?

The central spell is another fantastic solution that displays the importance of the Wizard Saruman and Orthanc itself. I agree completely with your reasoning towards not putting an economic spell or the Many Colours spell in its place. I do have to ask about the upgrades though: as they are free and all Citadels on the map can be applied without costs, the cooldown should be very long for the sake of balance. How is this addressed I wonder?

Lastly, the Isengard Unleashed spell shows a feat of sharp observation within a clever system. I believe it is proof of how much the Edain Mod has a clearly structured ideology in which functionality has the highest importance; the boundaries you have set do not reduce freedom, they rather enforce creativity!  ;)

Great job, looking forward to Rohan and the other faction spellbooks. Hearing about them and providing feedback makes me almost happier than using them in-game  (**)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 1. Mai 2017, 18:10
The spell Minions of the White Hand is an equally interesting renovation and certainly very unique, having three kinds of weak summons rather than one strong one. I assume the role of the Warg Archers was questionable anyway, when players rather used them for their trample abilities. The mounted Traitors of Rohan form a proper alternative here. I like the looks of the Wildmen Plunderers, are they the same as when regular Wildmen get their Heavy Armour upgrade (have to admit I never got Wulfgar to level 10 :o)?
The summoned wildmen use an older model of Edain's that wasn't used in 4.0 until now. Back in 3.8.1 they could even be found as creeps on Fords of Isen II, so I don't think they're the same.

About the Fuel the Fires Spell, I already read in the German feedback that the spawned Lumbermill will come with the resource upgrade (that is, in the new system I assume it counts as an external build plot?). Does this spell mean that Lumbermills can no longer be bought at Settlement plots, and what will happen to the bonus of cost reduction of buildings?
You'll still be able to get lumber mills on your settlements, don't worry.^^

The central spell is another fantastic solution that displays the importance of the Wizard Saruman and Orthanc itself. I agree completely with your reasoning towards not putting an economic spell or the Many Colours spell in its place. I do have to ask about the upgrades though: as they are free and all Citadels on the map can be applied without costs, the cooldown should be very long for the sake of balance. How is this addressed I wonder?
The research times for these upgrades are very long, so choosing which one to go for is important. Still, remember that you invested five spellpoints, so the spell better has some impact ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 1. Mai 2017, 20:21
I also find the description not suiting, since it is only implied in the movies that Saruman is doing Sauron's dirty work. In the books his motivations are much clearer, trying to find the One Ring for himself and rule all over Middle-Earth, and he defies the Nazgul when they have come to get rapport by lying to them about his knowledge of the Shire and Gandalf. Anyhow, some interpretations regarding the 'Many Colours' aspect see it rather that in an attempt to be all-powerful Saruman loses his pure white robe, which symbolises his blurred intentions. I would like to see the change of description more fitting to the lore of the books over the movies.
I must say I agree with this immensely.
In addition what will happen to the current citadel upgrades for Isengard in 4.4 now that a new central spell has been implemented?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 1. Mai 2017, 23:16
Zitat
Regarding Saruman of Many Colours I am quite confused as it seems the power is barely improved but costs 3 Points more, whereas Gandalf the White in Gondor is improved much more and costs only 1 point more. I think their power should be similar, unless Saruman is already stronger than Gandalf the Grey, making both Spell upgrades rather a way of equalising their strengths.
You have a point, but it is not that easy to compare heroes of similiar costs. Economically speaking, Isengar thas aclear advantage after the EG, which means that its relatively cheaper to pruchase a hero like that for Isengart.
Nevertheless you do have a point.

Zitat
Regarding Saruman of Many Colours I am quite confused as it seems the power is barely improved but costs 3 Points more, whereas Gandalf the White in Gondor is improved much more and costs only 1 point more. I think their power should be similar, unless Saruman is already stronger than Gandalf the Grey, making both Spell upgrades rather a way of equalising their strengths.
It may be debatable to what extent, but Saruman has been overtaken  by Sauron, when he started to use the Palantir of the Orthanc. He overestimated his own strength and he came under the influence of Sauron, who had the Palantir of Minas Ithil.
He may have thought that he was free, but he was definetly a prisoner of the Dark Lord, not only in the movies.

Elendil answered the rest. ^^
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Mai 2017, 01:56
It may be debatable to what extent, but Saruman has been overtaken  by Sauron, when he started to use the Palantir of the Orthanc. He overestimated his own strength and he came under the influence of Sauron, who had the Palantir of Minas Ithil.
He may have thought that he was free, but he was definetly a prisoner of the Dark Lord, not only in the movies.

I agree. That's how I see things too. Albeit the presumptive treason of Saruman and his independent plans, I have always deemed Sauron too much cunning and smart to be played as a complete fool. I guess that the Dark Lord had always been aware of the real desires of the Istar, but he had nonetheless opted to make the wizard feel in control of the situation, when Saruman was instead being manoeuvred as a mere puppet in the meantime. If you think about it, this kind of influence is even more terrible, given that the victim doesn't realise that he has actually been subjugated. We are in fact talking about the subtlest and most deceiving character of Tolkien's universe, who is absolutely versed in any typology of schemes involving treachery and manipulation (from the very Elder Days, to the fall of Númenor and its empire). Thus, in a wider overview, I would say that Sauron, regardless of Saruman's intentions, used Isengard as a diversion to keep Rohan and the other western people busy with (or, if that was possible, in order to annihilate them); in doing so, he was given the proper time to mobilise Mordor and to summon his immense army, defusing also what could have been a very perilous of an eventuality: a sudden alliance between Rohan and Gondor. Risk that had eventually come true (only in the latest hour, though), with the consequences we all know.

Beside the geopolitics of Middle-earth, Saruman's new 'multifaceted spirit' is a sacrosanct aspect equally, as Tolkien himself stated that his 'many colours' symbolise the diversity and extreme volubility of the Istar's desires/intent. Could perhaps a compromise with the text be found? A description that satisfies all these needs.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: TheDarkOne am 2. Mai 2017, 11:27

I agree. That's how I see things too. Albeit the presumptive treason of Saruman and his independent plans, I have always deemed Sauron too much cunning and smart to be played as a complete fool. I guess that the Dark Lord had always been aware of the real desires of the Istar, but he had nonetheless opted to make the wizard feel in control of the situation, when Saruman was instead being manoeuvred as a mere puppet in the meantime. If you think about it, this kind of influence is even more terrible, given that the victim doesn't realise that he has actually been subjugated. We are in fact talking about the subtlest and most deceiving character of Tolkien's universe, who is absolutely versed in any typology of schemes involving treachery and manipulation (from the very Elder Days, to the fall of Númenor and its empire). Thus, in a wider overview, I would say that Sauron, regardless of Saruman's intentions, used Isengard as a diversion to keep Rohan and the other western people busy with.

Beside the geopolitics of Middle-earth, Saruman's new 'multifaceted spirit' is a sacrosanct aspect equally, as Tolkien himself stated that his 'many colours' symbolise the diversity and extreme volubility of the Istar's desires/intent. Could perhaps a compromise with the text be found? A description that satisfies all these needs.

I think that such discription puts a shame on Saruman. Despite being influenced he acted on his own. Technically he was used but not so roughly and evidently to call him a puppet. After all he wanted to wage a war against Sauron but with the discovery of his treachery he could no longer do that, forcing himself to ally with the Dark lord. Just a victim of unexpected circumstances. The titles "Saruman of many colors" and "the puppet of Sauron" together make a very controversial line. I agree with you, a more neutral description should be made.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 2. Mai 2017, 12:21
Why not say:
"Saruman of Many Colours consorts with Sauron through the Palantir. Permanently gains +50% magic damage, -25% cooldown on all skills and +1000 lifepoints."
or
"Saruman of Many Colours falls under the influence of Sauron. Permanently gains +50% magic damage, -25% cooldown on all skills and +1000 lifepoints."

I prefer the first one; in English at least the word "puppet" when applied to a leader has very negative connotations that suggest that the ruler has lost all agency and freewill and even though Saruman may have been manipulated by Sauron he certainly still had freewill and agency over his actions (After all, at one point he went to beg Gandalf for forgiveness). In addition as you play as Isengard, I feel their spellbook should be written from their perspective rather than the overall perspective, hence I feel negative descriptions of Saruman should be avoided.     

Finally, what are the actual effects of the citadel upgrades (You did not mention them in specific terms) and what has happened to the old ones? 
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Mai 2017, 13:12
Hello !sorry for my English xD Updates are smart! (**) I have only two questions: The first is how to deal with the ability to devastate if there are no trees on the map, and the second one is more important - the Orthanck tower is super - but what abilities will there be, and it seems to me that it would be great if you remove the lightning from Saruman when He is outside the tower, and leave only when he is in the tower !, and the lightning can replace it with something ??? After all, it is duplicated, and it would be great if the skills were slightly different! This would add a little variety, and secondly that the most important thing would be changing tactics when playing for Isengard! The player will have different properties and abilities depending on how he uses Saruman, in the tower or on the front line. What do you think?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Mai 2017, 13:17
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to undermine his character, whose relevance in the lore I have always admired. It's true that Saruman being manipulated is not very much evident and that the wizard did have his own plans, but we shouldn't forget that Sauron is the master of intrigues and deceit; the Dark Lord doesn't have allies, but only servants or puppets (consider the word in its broadest meaning) whom he moves as pawns for his real designs. This is how the Lord of Mordor thinks and acts, leaving very little space for unexpected circumstances. As I pointed out, this is presumably the subtlest, most powerful and most terrible form of control, since the victim has the illusion of acting as his conscience dictates, while being just a pawn in the master's chessboard. Fact that doesn't discredit Saruman's role at all; it just reinforces Sauron's. A sort of parallelism with the treachery of the Rings of Power: unbeknownst to him, the Three had been forged and never tainted by the Evil, yet Sauron had made it like the secret formula (common to all Rings) would subjugate all other possible artefacts of that kind (being him aware or not of their existence), should a ruling Ring have been created. Henceforth, in spite of one's own independent moves, everyone would be held captive of his grand scheme.

I was just making an attempt to find a sort of balance. Neither Saruman fooling Sauron nor the wizard being a complete puppet could be appropriate interpretations for the case. That's why we need the old and good art of compromising, in this particular context.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 2. Mai 2017, 13:21
There should be trees on every official Edain Map. If not please tell us in the map bugs forum.

We won't tell you the specific details, cause we want you to still be able to discover things when the update comes out.
So stay curious ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 2. Mai 2017, 13:51
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to undermine his character, whose relevance in the lore I have always admired. It's true that Saruman being manipulated is not very much evident and that the wizard did have his own plans, but we shouldn't forget that Sauron is the master of intrigues and deceit; the Dark Lord doesn't have allies, but only servants or puppets (consider the word in its broadest meaning) whom he moves as pawns for his real designs. This is how the Lord of Mordor thinks and acts, leaving very little space for unexpected circumstances. As I pointed out, this is presumably the subtlest, most powerful and most terrible form of control, since the victim has the illusion of acting as his conscience dictates, while being just a pawn in the master's chessboard. Fact that doesn't discredit Saruman's role at all; it just reinforces Sauron's. A sort of parallelism with the treachery of the Rings of Power: unbeknownst to him, the Three had been forged and never tainted by the Evil, yet Sauron had made it like the secret formula (common to all Rings) would subjugate all other possible artefacts of that kind (being him aware or not of their existence), should a ruling Ring have been created. Henceforth, in spite of one's own independent moves, everyone would be held captive of his grand scheme.

I was just making an attempt to find a sort of balance. Neither Saruman fooling Sauron nor the wizard being a complete puppet could be appropriate interpretations for the case. That's why we need the old and good art of compromising, in this particular context.
Hence my suggestions:
"Saruman of Many Colours consorts with Sauron through the Palantir. Permanently gains +50% magic damage, -25% cooldown on all skills and +1000 lifepoints."
or
"Saruman of Many Colours falls under the influence of Sauron. Permanently gains +50% magic damage, -25% cooldown on all skills and +1000 lifepoints."

They still acknowledge the connection between Saruman and Saruron through the slightly more subtle line of "consorts with Sauron through the Palantir" or the fairly blunt "falls under the influence of Sauron." They also manage to avoid the word puppet and its connotations and thus I believe one of them strikes the compromise we need between acknowledging Saruman's agency and highlighting the subtle nature of the manipulations of the Dark Lord.   
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Mai 2017, 14:25
I wanted to offer an addition to the ability of an icy rain: what about the addition of an effect - 25% visibility and damage to the archers. After all, in fact, the rain worsens the visibility and range of archers. And it will be just like in the film at the siege of Helm's Deep. I think that if you unite these two effects, Isengard will get a really powerful attacking ability and then no one can resist the iron fist of Saruman  [uglybunti] [uglybunti] [uglybunti]. What do you think ???


As for Saruman, he was neither a puppet of Sauron at the same time, it all depends on which side to look at? The marionette was because in any case to get the ring as Saruman wanted, he had to destroy the free people and create an alliance with Sauron. On the other hand, he was deceiving the Nazgul and partly Sauron, although Sauron knew about the betrayal of Saruman. DieWalküre is right about psychological subtlety, but Saruman still had free will, he was simply hampered by his insanity about getting a ring and pride that ruined him. It seems to me that to get an answer to the questions of a puppet whether Saruman should first answer the following question: What if his army would have won Rohan? What's next, how would he act ??? He would have helped Sauron with the siege of Minas Tirith or .... ??? Here is the answer: what and how would he act ???
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Mai 2017, 14:38
They still acknowledge the connection between Saruman and Saruron through the slightly more subtle line of "consorts with Sauron through the Palantir" or the fairly blunt "falls under the influence of Sauron." They also manage to avoid the word puppet and its connotations and thus I believe one of them strikes the compromise we need between acknowledging Saruman's agency and highlighting the subtle nature of the manipulations of the Dark Lord.

I really like the former, for it is centred on Sauron's subtle influence via the Palantír. Even though, in order to honour the very spell's title (Tolkien's own words), I would also include ''Saruman unveils his true schemes''. The final result should thus consist of ''Saruman consorts with Sauron through the Palantír and unveils his true schemes''. By means of the last sentence we can also connect with the volubility of intent which I have previously addressed.

Zitat
For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, Saruman of Many Colours!'

I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not so, but were woven of all colours, and if he moved they shimmered and changed hue so that the eye was bewildered.

I liked white better,' I said.

White!' he sneered. 'It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken.'

In which case it is no longer white,' said I. 'And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.'
From Gandalf's memories

EDIT: I just realised that the 'his' in the second sentence might be misunderstood as Sauron's own plans. Nevertheless, I guess we can play with grammar here. The description is in fact enigmatic and deceiving (the themes of our recent discussion): whose plans are being unveiled? Saruman's (independent desires) or Sauron's (his snares, as he's manoeuvring the wizard)? A quite witty of a dilemma...  xD
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Mai 2017, 14:56
I just realised that the 'his' in the second sentence might be misunderstood as Sauron's own plans. Nevertheless, I guess we can play with grammar here. The description is in fact enigmatic and deceiving (the themes of our recent discussion): whose plans are being unveiled? Saruman's (independent desires) or Sauron's (his snares, as he's manoeuvring the wizard)? A quite witty of a dilemma...  xD

100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

By the way, during this discussion, I got a question or a remark anyhow: Saruman gets a good push for development in the form of a bonus, like Gandalf himself. And guess what is possible Galadriel and Elrond, too, can receive development bonuses. And now the question itself: what about the Necromancer  :( :( :(??? With such strong oponents! Will there ever be any use from it ??? He is still weak, in terms of support one of the best, but as a hero of direct exposure weak! I hope Necromancer will also get some bonuses  xD?!?
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: TheDarkOne am 2. Mai 2017, 17:55
100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

By the way, during this discussion, I got a question or a remark anyhow: Saruman gets a good push for development in the form of a bonus, like Gandalf himself. And guess what is possible Galadriel and Elrond, too, can receive development bonuses. And now the question itself: what about the Necromancer  :( :( :(??? With such strong oponents! Will there ever be any use from it ??? He is still weak, in terms of support one of the best, but as a hero of direct exposure weak! I hope Necromancer will also get some bonuses  xD?!?

Necromancer is a great support and a single immortal hero for a price of 1000 recourses. He may be vulnerable but only alone as any other hero. He can trap heroes and burn them to death. I only mentioned his greatest offensive fiery spells. With him being balanced and made up so perfectly there is no need to do anything with him. Also other faction leaders do not really need such a buff like Gandalf or Saruman have. Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 2. Mai 2017, 19:13
If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only :(
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 2. Mai 2017, 19:21
Zitat
If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only :(
Working on it !!!!



In all seriousness:
Zitat
Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.
Perfect answer. :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Mai 2017, 20:39
100% Everything depends on what angle and which side to look at

Necromancer is a great support and a single immortal hero for a price of 1000 recourses. He may be vulnerable but only alone as any other hero. He can trap heroes and burn them to death. I only mentioned his greatest offensive fiery spells. With him being balanced and made up so perfectly there is no need to do anything with him. Also other faction leaders do not really need such a buff like Gandalf or Saruman have. Keep in mind the concept of uniqueness.

As for the support, I fully agree with you! You just did not understand correctly. Necromancer really is one of the best heroes with aspects of army support! I touched on the moment when we go direct confrontation Necromancer with one of the members of the White Council! I just wanted to clarify if I get the slightest bonus when I get the "Sauron's Deadliest Servants" ability. Yes, at level 10, at least he can compete with enemy heroes, but before that you still have to live, and if you play 2 by 2 or 3 by 3. How will you gain experience? Your comment can be right if you play 1 on 1.

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 2. Mai 2017, 20:45
If only there was a spell that could turn the necromancer into some sort of shapeshifting beast, who could turn into a giant werewolf or into Batman, kill pretty much every other hero in the game, summon a fortress shooting lightning bolts and create fire pillars out of thin air... if only :(

And why Batman or a giant werewolf if you already have a Terminator of mass destruction :D ?? He alone can destroy your whole army with all your heroes (well, almost all) - you probably understand who I am !!!! ;)
I appreciate your sarcasm but according to your descriptions in the game there is already such! :D
Oh, forgive me ... I still forgot about Thorin the Undying !!!

EDIT: I just wanted to ask if Necromancer statistics will improve in 4.5 (although by 20%) After all, the Necromancer only requires a better adjustment of some of his abilities. Secondly, too great a difference in power between the Necromancer and Sauron. Gorthaur and Sauron, in my opinion, also need a little adjustment of their abilities. That's what I had, not the creation of an all-powerful hero. I'm generally against the abilities of mass destruction, since the role of the army itself is diminishing.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Mai 2017, 20:58
Dáin, if you wish to discuss some aspects of the Necromancer that you regard as in need of being changed for the better, there are more appropriate spaces in this forum which are apt for the case. I think we already have a couple of threads concerning Sauron. In case you were willing to propose something, you should just head there.

Personally, I say to you that I don't believe we need any overhaul of Sauron. He's widely renowned as one of the most iconic and unique heroes of the game (if not the most unique), having been granted the privilege to dispose of a sensational set of powers and smart features, thanks to which almost all relevant passages of his lore are covered by and implemented in the Edain Mod.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 2. Mai 2017, 21:17
Sauron is the best unit in the game, hands down. Even the description of his level 10 ''Dark Will'' ability says so, so it must be true :P.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 3. Mai 2017, 07:50
Dáin, if you wish to discuss some aspects of the Necromancer that you regard as in need of being changed for the better, there are more appropriate spaces in this forum which are apt for the case. I think we already have a couple of threads concerning Sauron. In case you were willing to propose something, you should just head there.

Personally, I say to you that I don't believe we need any overhaul of Sauron. He's widely renowned as one of the most iconic and unique heroes of the game (if not the most unique), having been granted the privilege to dispose of a sensational set of powers and smart features, thanks to which almost all relevant passages of his lore are covered by and implemented in the Edain Mod.

I am happy to join the discussion, and I will try to present my opinion and proposal in the near future. But I'm not saying that the Necromancer / Sauron needs major repairs, only in minor subtle modifications. All a good day!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 4. Mai 2017, 20:27

Thank you for your answers Walk, Elendil and Trapper!

Indeed the question of perspective is important in the naming and framing of the spell. In this case, being in the Isengard Spell Book I would prefer a more neutral (yet mystically implying) description rather than something describing Saruman or Sauron in an inferior position.

The inclusion of Tolkien's words would be terrific, and absolutely capturing the relation and enigma between Saruman and Sauron.

It makes me wonder about the extent of Sauron's power over Saruman: the Dark Lord definitely had Saruman as a player (rook rather than pawn I'd say) on his chessboard, but if Saruman managed to lie to the Nazgul who share Sauron's will and mind when lying about his intentions, there is undoubtedly a real match-up of powers.

Besides this, neither Sauron or Saruman are undefeatable, considering physical and psychological  powers as Maiar. Don't forget Sauron was scared when facing Aragorn and Ar-Phârazon, while Saruman stood defenceless against the Ents.

I'm rambling too much.  :P
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 22. Mai 2017, 12:56
The Road to Edain 4.5 : Rohan's New Spellbook (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34677.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Secret Keeper am 22. Mai 2017, 16:16
Gondor spellbook got me hyped, then Mordor and Isengard ones were a slightly less interesting, but oh boy - Rohan spellbook looks amazing.

Battle and Draft order -  both looks amazing, great idea with banner discount. However I think that draft order would be used more as it sounds more beneficial

Aid of the Woses and Royal Vanguard - finally some spying/uncloaking abilities for rohan (scout from outpost is barely used :/ ). Vanguard looks like a classic damage dealing spell, nothing complicated - I like it.

Highborn Warhorses - apart from super name :D , it's good that you are trying to help with rohans poor economy.

Three Hunters - Here I think Rohan does not need them to be permanent. They all cost around 2500 in their specific factions, they are really strong with unique damage dealing spells. I am looking forward how this would work out in games.

Glory of the King - Sounds good and strong, again interested how it would work in online matches.

Overall impression? Interesting, strong, helpful and mainly every spell feels useful. Although, I've got the impression  that you are not that strict with some mechanics ( permanent druadan statues, perma three hunters ... ) as you were under Ealendril  :P Keep up the good work.  :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 22. Mai 2017, 16:34
I had the feeling just this afternoon that I just needed to check the ET's progress, even though I have tons of other things to do. I really can't wait for this update, it seems to change around so much of the gameplay that I positively believe all players (even the multiplayer pros) will be noobs again for the first weeks, just trying out all new possibilities.

Direct feedback: I love the way you implemented the Draft, splitting it up into a defensive and offensive part, very ingenious. Too bad you removed the Simbelmynë, I felt it had a strong symbolic meaning to Rohan: perhaps you can implement such white flowers as a decal around the Rally Point for Settlement plots?

The central spell sounds a bit strong with the permanent hero buff, because Rohan has a strong reliance on its heroes to succeed already. I wonder how it's going to play out in terms of balance.

I love what you did to the Druedáin, it is an amazing feature to have their watchfulness implemented this way. Question though: will the Woses be controllable but temporary as they defend their statue, and if so, can they leave the direct range of it?

About the third row, not much change on the right side. I wonder though if the Highbred Warhorses and the Three Hunters should not be swapped around, the Hunters being on the outer branch. Reason being that the Hunters are currently not so useless if you don't have the money to recruit them (in the range of 2500-3000 I suppose) but you really want/need to switch trees to get back into the game, regain map control and earn resources! I would appreciate your reflection on this.

All in all, my visionary senses did not disappoint me  :P. Great job on this spell book  8-)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Mai 2017, 16:41
Overall impression? Interesting, strong, helpful and mainly every spell feels useful. Although, I've got the impression  that you are not that strict with some mechanics ( permanent druadan statues, perma three hunters ... ) as you were under Ealendril  :P Keep up the good work.  :)

Very interesting. I'm much curious about your statement, because I too can relate to that, at a certain extent. I nonetheless think that Ealendril has very little to do with that; it's probably due to the fact that one was too much used to the old spellbook system, so that such a radical overhaul might initially seem really revolutionary, compared to how it fared before. At the end of the day, coding and scripting are certainly not matters which the Edain Team is lacking at the moment. Although Ealendril's presence is indeed irreplaceable, they are still capable of conceiving grand designs 8-)

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed the update and saw through the potential of Rohan's new spells. I could never understand how people dare to say that these new spells are completely boring and pointless; you may not agree with the result, but the new breath of fresh air is pretty undeniable :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 22. Mai 2017, 17:55
I really can't wait for this update, it seems to change around so much of the gameplay that I positively believe all players (even the multiplayer pros) will be noobs again for the first weeks, just trying out all new possibilities.
Not me 8-)

Interesting point about the placement of the breeding and the hunters. In general the spells on the outside (far left or far right) should be either stronger or cheaper than their more central counterpart, because they are obviously at a disadvantage due to not unlocking as many other spells. Yours is a valid argument, though, swapping the two spells makes sense to me.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 22. Mai 2017, 22:24
Great update, Edain Team! At first I wasn't sure if I liked the Pûkel-Men change, but now I must say I like it. The changes definitely make the spellbook more unique! I can't wait to play Rohan with this new changes!

On another note, I'm glad no summon spell was removed, I really like the aspect of Rohan getting help from other peoples through the spellbook.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 23. Mai 2017, 01:20
I also think the Warhorses and Three Hunters should be switched around. I had this idea some time ago as well, but it seems I forgot to post it. Thanks for reminding me Secret Keeper and good thinking!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Morwereth am 23. Mai 2017, 16:49
I'm so happy to see Cured Theoden got some love :D It was something had been asked here long ago. I like new spellbook overall. It is more cavalry orientated and it gives Rohan players some tricks for late game.  (**)

Although it is hard to speak without testing it, just first row concerns me: reworked draft and attack order abilities. If you combine double production farm + draft + cruel taxes you pop up drafted peasants insanely. Plus you can clump other peasants in one place (like how we do for turning them to traitors) and use attack order to draft them. In this case, solid peasant spam will wreck everything. More than it should be able to IMO.

You wanted to divide current draft spell into one defensive and one offensive spell but atm draft costs 2 points and has a long cooldown. Thus players can't always have drafted peasants on the field. With these two new spells, mostly they can.

As I said, I might be wrong since I never played with new spellbook but it is how it looks like to me.

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 30. Mai 2017, 22:19
The Road to Edain 4.5 : New Dwarven Spellbook (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34694.msg458247.html#msg458247)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 30. Mai 2017, 22:52
Nothing to point out, great rework of the Dwarves' Spellbook!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: kreso am 31. Mai 2017, 15:25
Nice new spellbook for dwarves
Things I like, Carc's Ravens now are deffensive. Early game Dwarves fight was really strong, horn+ravens.
That "Weapon Art of the Dwarves" spell that is nice fit, it is hard to access, nice little buff for them in LG fight, since they lost ravens and heal in battle.

Things i dont like, that tower summon is very flexible and same is for Undermine. If u get runes and ravens on that and position it well it is really op in both cases, I think tower should be little bit less offensive. So there is my suggestion, make that passive ability (or active) that, every mineshaft get tower upgrade in lvl 2 and some bonus hp. This could deny one more tower, and that we expect to see in edain (less tower), we all dont like to sige citadels or outpost. That scenario often ends with catapult fight. And this will bring some more Undermine in game, Undermine is more skill oriented spell so I vote for it.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 1. Jun 2017, 18:25
Wow, pumped to play the Dwarves too and use their super strong spells when it comes to defending.

I get the feeling that Dwarven buildings will become the hardest to destroy in the entire game, which is definitely accurate to their description as masons and architects. I have two questions about the Ravens though: can they be applied to any building or are Citadels also excluded? And does their building armour buff extend to only the building underneath or all buildings nearby? I get the feeling that it makes Dwarven Outposts impossibly strong, with the buffs of Stonemasons, Ravens, the Runes of Inviolability and Power, and if an army is protecting it, Rallying Call, Final Stand, Rune of Inspiration, Ravens' debuff, and Weapon Art of the Dwarves.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that I hope it's balanced, otherwise it might make the Dwarves strong accross all stages of the game, and much stronger in the late game. Then again, this passed through the first round of Beta-testing so it must be decent. I love the concepts behind so I really wish it doesn't get changed too much, but man the Dwarves will become really epic this way.


So there is my suggestion, make that passive ability (or active) that, every mineshaft get tower upgrade in lvl 2 and some bonus hp. This could deny one more tower, and that we expect to see in edain (less tower), we all dont like to sige citadels or outpost. That scenario often ends with catapult fight.

I actually quite like this suggestion, as it also then diversifies the Dwarven Lone Tower from the Gondor one. And it makes the situation described above slightly less of an issue, as less Towers can be spammed around an outpost.

Another great surprise! ;)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FG15 am 1. Jun 2017, 20:05
Because buildings got their arrow towers at level 3, buildings are designed to get the visual subobjects only at level 3, too. Therefore it isn't possible to give buildings an arrow tower  at level 1.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: kreso am 1. Jun 2017, 22:34
But it is possible to that spell give on active mine extra fast free upgrade of defensive measures? I really dont like towers in middle of fight to flank my archers or something while I still dont have sige in early game or forged blades to destroy that.

There comes Gondor tower too, we need restriction for summoning, that towers need to be defensive not agro. In narrow maps if dwarf get good trade he will always go for that tower and deff from harassing with standard units.

I dont know will next patch give us some nerf to towers but I am tilted about outpost (3 towers) and tower summons. I had 2 troll catapult with angmar and I sieged enemy outpost and I couldnt kill it with catapult because of healing rate. Outpost need to be things to provide more easy win if u are ahead, not a fort for killing mass. It is nice to have well and statue but towers on outpost they dont have real purpose. only if u can send battalion of archers in that could be fine but tower atm are op.

I see things like that, so this all can be wrong in some different perspective. But I played online pvp, on gameranger, and that is my experience.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Joragon am 1. Jun 2017, 23:02
It was already said that in the upcoming patch towers will be nerfed and it is also said in the dwarven spellbook update that the lonely tower will be debuffed because the spell was too strong.
That doesn't mean towers aren't useful any more, they are just not as strong as before.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 2. Jun 2017, 02:39
Yes, we have to see if the tower nerf will have enough impact. Follow up nerfs can always be considered after that.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Trapper am 16. Okt 2017, 13:09
The Road to Edain 4.5: New Spellbook of Imladris (https://modding-union.com/index.php/topic,34972.0.html)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FilipGeorg95 am 2. Jan 2018, 19:10
I would like to state something regarding what we have seen in the movies, what we can actually implement in gameplay and some historical facts:

1. The most iconic part of seeing the chariot in the films is when the company members capture it and try to break the lines of enemy orcs. Here you can see that it has 3 levels of the machine: 1 seat for the driver, 1 for the repeater crossbow and possibly 2 more for extra soldiers acting as support. That was shown via the main fantasy style and emphasis of the characters. Before that, when Dain arrived on the hill, we saw very short moment of how actual chariot crew looked. There we saw again the driver as a main component of the war machine companied by other, 2 rotating soldiers acting as additional fighting force beside the machine it self. In terms of battle scenes, the main weapon is the actual device by it self, everything else that comes is extra. The crossbow is also an extra feature that the regular one doesn't have nor the amount of additional troops supporting the vehicle.

2. Now lets get to the gameplay: the main difference between the new looking battlewagon/chariot and the old one is mainly its visual apperiance. That is obvious, from visual look this one suits more to all realms because of the movie implementation but according to me it should not be equal for all 3 realms. So let's get started: the main weapon as stated before is the actual war machine that not only have the pulling power of the rams, but also the sheer weight of the construction and the additional blades will do the work for most of the killing. That is somehow similar to the vanilla, but in terms of usage it should definitely have the stronger impact and thus stronger charge/trample damage which in physics will reflect to higher innertion and pushing forward but after that, slower acceleration in order to gain the needed speed for continuing forward ( even though it has 2 rams, physics is way more complex ). In more precise words: there should exist additional armor back-up in terms of small boost from start of recruitment alongside bonus blade damage for tight masses and pitch battles. What I think should make the diversity is the ownership by the different realms in terms of equipment.

Iron Hills as seen in the WIP sneak peak, should have the option to put battle standards/banners accompanied by two side pike man ( in heavy armor ) in order to represent the iconic look of the movie style chariot. By this meaning the IH chariot will provide military might over the battle field, intimidation to enemies and thus inspiration for allied soldiers. In terms of gameplay this will provide increased leadership bonus, attack bonus and fear resistance. The main goal is to give this defensive realm a unique offensive unit to compensate their high armor-> low attack values and their will to fight against more, numerous odds.

Erebor in other words is War of the Rings true flourishing Dwarven Kingdom respected for it's wealth, wise ruling and proven valor in the past days. Even though they are shown as faction in the mod that favors strong arm instead of armor craft, the chariot should be equipped with a statue similar to the base one. Why ? According to me the statue will represent the highest peak in Dwarven history of founding/retrieving their Lonely Mountain Kingdom after the loss of Kazad-dum and will resemble the might of the King under the Mountain and the unification of the Dwarven might once again. Gameplay wise mounted statue should bring forth to allied soldiers experience bonus, armor buff and protection to nearby heroes since the mounted statue itself represent the strong will to defend the rulers but also strong endeavor in order to protect the chariot that carries it.

Ered Luin as we all know is mostly oriented and bound to it's heroes which rely on uncommon Dwarven war tactics. They are more like guerrilla fighters that regular shield wall infantry. So, I support the idea of giving them the option to have access to the popular repeater crossbow. This will give them 2 unique feelings as a realm: firstly it will strongly correspond to the movie scene were the main characters used that weapon to shoot orcs, wargs and the troll. Secondly it will show that Ered Luin dwarves used intelligence with crafting. From one side you have a "tank" to crush tight lines and from other side you have mobile armored vehicle able to shoot from afar big targets.

3. From historical knowledge most of the antique nations used chariots in order to disrupt battle lines, cause fear and above all to wage psychological warfare with their enemies. The main advantage of a chariot is the terrain. If it not flat, than they are useless. Most of the known empires/states such as Egypt, Persia, Hittites, Chinese, Assyrians, Carthaginians, Indians deployed them as frontal weapon for delivering one-way charge. The main part alongside was a driver somethimes accompanied by one/two side soldiers in forms of archers. spearmen, javelineers. There were moments of developing wheel blades that replaced the other additional soldiers and the chariot was reduced to a single driver.

From that point of view the player will be able to choose weather to stay only with one man driven dwarven war chariot that will act like real life scythe chariot or will choose the possible option depending what faction he has chosen. Also I will suggest an additional equipment that will bound all realms together to their mobile, war creation: supplies. They are race of stubborn miners and fighters that often don't like long term travels so what and ordinary dwarf likes over the most non shinny thing is meat and beer to keep it's stomach full and his axe steady in his arm. So, my point of view is to give the chariot an option to provide health regeneration every 4-5 minutes to nearby allies when not in combat so that they can use logistics and tactical maneuver over their foes. As seen in the new spell book, they have lost the beer healing and strategy wise they too have lack in numbers thus are slow, so why wont we give them something to eat and drink in their true path in Edain ?

Another note that connects real life usage of chariots and further implementation in Edain: in most battles that occurred in antiquity for example: Cunaxa ( 401 BC ), Gaugamela ( 331 BC ), Ipsos ( 301 BC ), Raphia ( 216 BC ) chariots were mainly used for disrupting the enemy lines in one, single massed charge. Most of those chariots were pulled by 2 horses or in some cases 4. They were never meant to engage in prolonged combat. In Edain since it is most logical to have a chariot with 2 rams because in the movie the machine pulled with 6 is fiction. In reality, column position of horse drawn chariots are seen in Royal families parades. Now on the 2 rams: they are indeed better than horses in terms of endurance but when engaged to long weapons should suffer great counter attack. I think that if you try to use them on units with short variation of anti cavalry weapons such as spears ( in Edain for example: "Orc Spearmen" ,"Dunleding Spearmen", "Rivendell Spearmen" ) they should not take big damage since in reality chariots that charged units such as hoplites endured. But in scenarios for massed battle when confronting pikemen in terms of Isegards one, Mordors Minas Morgul Orcs with pikes, Gondorians and even other dwarves, they should be decimated because of the reach of the weapon that confronts them. Sarrisa spear for example was very effective at Gaugamela and later at Hydaspes :) :)
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 4. Apr 2018, 20:49
I'd like to give my opìnion about the Dáin rework :P

First of all, about Lord Dáin (Iron Hills), I'd like to say you did an amazing job! I really like the uniqueness of the rage system and how he seems like he will get a temporary mount, which is a thing I had never thought of. He also brings some needed offensive capabilities to the armies of the Iron Hills. I really think he fits a lot with the nature we saw of him in the BOTFA movie, and I'm really eager to play with him!

About King Dáin: I believe this rework is also pretty good, though I would have personally liked him to get at least one capability to increase Erebor's defense. Nevertheless, I think the nature of his abilities will "offset" another of Erebor's weaknesses (speed) anyway, and the Battlewagons summon certainly could be a game-changer in some occasions! He also represents what could be Dáin in his older age fairly well. Still a warrior at heart, but one that has grown to be a wise leader and commander.

And on a different note, about Ring Hero forms: I'd personally like the Ring Hero Lord Dáin's summoned Fortress to remain in the Ring Hero form of him, and I think that for Erebor's King Dáin form, a suggestion like the one made by AulëTheSmith could certainly work pretty well and be unique.

Overall, amazing job, as always!
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: OakenShield224 am 4. Apr 2018, 22:56
I have no complaints about the Iron Hills Dain change. All of his abilities suit him really well, and I look forward to playing with him properly! In terms of his Ring hero form, one idea could be that his rage is brought out even more, with him maybe needing to stay in combat to keep his health up (I can't take credit for the idea, since it was made by Starwarsfan8 on ModDb). Another suggestion could be that his basic attack and abilities are much stronger, but his attacks also damage or knock back allied units. Nevertheless, I'm sure that the Edain Team would be able to come up with a unique and fun to play mechanic for this!

As for King Dain, like Julio229, I would've liked to see something defence related for his abilities (as this is the main weakness for the Glass Cannon Erebor subfaction). One idea could be that his Burst of Rage can slowly heal affected units for the 15 seconds that it is active. This may not be balanced though. However, all of the abilities are definitely well suited for an older, wiser but still more aggressive Dain. I definitely look forward to seeing the new Battlewagons in action as well as seeing what else is in store for the mod.
Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: AulëTheSmith am 4. Apr 2018, 23:43
I agree with Oaken and Julio about the two concept, you made a great work guys  xD
The only thing I would better see King Dain mounting a special royal battle wagon at level 6, rather than the boar, with some other effects. It suits better for an old King. Maybe the new battle wagon carried by two bigger boars instead of goats. With two pikemen, a driver and King Dain in the center  xD. Similar to one of the five you shown in the picture.
Here the example, I saw it was proposed time ago, from the post that inspires you the overhaul of battle wagons, started by CragLord:

(http://s5.postimg.org/476xf79yd/Dwarven_Boars_battlewagon.jpg)

Regarding the two ring form I agree for Lord Dain. In particular I would focus the attention on the theme of anger and grudgers, since dwarves never forget about injustices of the past.
For King Dain I suppose you know my proposal since nothing goes unnoticed here  [ugly]
Keep up the good work  :)

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: FilipGeorg95 am 5. Apr 2018, 12:20
First lets elaborate Lord Dáin: after he picks up the Ring, as all heroes have small bonus from the start with their new form, I came up to mind to let the young, hot-tempered Lord be able to provide increased leadership bonus as well as 5-10% increased attack for 30-45 seconds. It will correspond with the Battle of the Five Armies scene in two ways: first, when they formed their shield wall which made the Elves charge trough because they were encouraged from their ( dwarven ) will to fight much greater odds, and later, when he ordered the last charge after Thorin entered the field. Even though Thorin inspired the dwarves, naturally the Iron Hills warriors obeyed the commands of their Lord and therefore after the shout: “To the King” they literally crashed the ranks of the opposing orcs.

Level 1 - Rising Rage: Dáin's rage increases with every attack against enemy units or heroes. After five attacks, he deals damage in an area and gains +30%  armor. After 10 attacks, his strikes throw enemies to the ground and he can't be knocked down himself. Rage wears off after 20 seconds. This one should stay as now even in the ring form because it would give Dain his normal ability to be re used again even in ring form since this one in particular is unique and well-fitting to him. Alas, as proposed on MU by Oakenshield and Julio, it could have a double-edge sword effect that would also harm own units since his hot temper combined with the power of the Ring could result in deadly combination.

Level 3 - Dáin's Boar: Requires full rage. Dáin briefly ( maybe permanently ) mounts his boar. Not as fast as other steeds, but deals increased trample damage. It doesn't slow down when trampling enemies on shattered soil.  This ability should stay since he have one of the most iconic mounts and therefore the re-usage of the boar is well-fitted to him.

Level 5- Emergency measures: from the book we were able to read that Dain and his 500 warriors arrived at Erebor from their holds in several days with great haste and willing to help their kin. Even though in Edain Iron Hills are depicted as “tanky” dwarves that excel in high armor and durable in combat, with this active ability, Dain could speed their movement for 10-15% which could result in either escaping big battles or aiding allies. Furthermore, when activated, it would grant small fear ability to nearby troops because once they entered the theatre in the book, they were described as grim-looking, angry host.

Level 7- Lord of the Iron Hills ( active/passive ): this one was his level 1 ability in 4.4.1 and we know that this ability was passive and provided boost to nearby warriors with 30% armor and fear resistance. My suggestion is that we should keep the name of the ability but make it completely unique. Iron Hills as a region in Tolkien’s universe was a range of mountains that were turned into mining facilities by the dwarves who made strongholds there. The mountains were rich in iron which is one of their key resources for producing weapons, armor and engines of war. So, from knowing this, we can make him grant via this ability permanent bonuses to mining shafts in terms of increased resources as a passive ability when he is near to the camp and once activated, all troops around him would be armed with heavy armor and forged blades similar how Wulfgar arms his Dunledings. Should have very low recharge rate ( 90-120 seconds ) due to balance.

Level 10-  Lord’s pride: this one will represent an old ability that was used for April fools day of 2017 when the team did an article about Dáin. Remember how he was able to cast on selected area a chariot ( wagon ) charge ? Well, this comes up to my mind. Since now we have new looking battle-wagons, Dain could charge them to tight enemy ranks for devastating effect. Should not be upgraded as King Dáin is able to summon them, but, rather normal wagons that will allow the player to decide a tight battle or to disrupt formations of archers.


Ring form for King Dáin: because here we discuss a “what If” situation where King Dáin accepts the Ring even though he refused any offer from Mordors emissaries, we can make a situation that will make his realm for short period of time produce even more resources ( 100 % ) because of the increased greed, but troops during this time will have decreased attack and will fear Dain for short time. The idea behind this is that once he has the Ring, he will start making Erebor even more richer that it was before Smaug destroyed it and thus because of that, all troops will start to fall for the riches and will “forget” what war is. In addition to this, Dáin will be monarch that will be feared because of his extended treasures.

Level 1- Long live the King: ( passive ) this was, however the aftermath of the BOTFA movies when we witnessed the funeral of Thorin, Kili and Fili and at that moment, Dáin was elected as the new King under the Mountain. This ability will grant Dáin extended HP points. Additional to this, allied units near to the base will be resistant to fear wile outside, will have increased attack values. Small depiction of the last Battle at Dale when he fought till the very end.

Level 3- Might of the Red Axe ( active/passive ):  makes Dain swing with his axe at great ferocity even at old age. When activated, it would clever down any foes dealing them high damage, strong even against some heroes/monsters. Without the activation, it would give him permanent aoe attacks.

Level 6- King’s royal carriage: Here, I like to thank to AuletheSmith, Oakenshield and Julio for their approval and ideas for reintroducing the iconic mount for our old king Dáin. As seen in the screenshot of the wagons, there was one upgraded wagon that had Arkenguard besides the two pikemen and the driver. I will suggest that instead of the Arkenguard, Dain takes his place and therefore take the initiative of commanding from atop of the wagon’s platform. This however, will make him have permanent access to very unique mount and will allow the engine itself to do the killing instead of him.

Level 8- Trusted friends: after the destruction that the orcs and goblins had at the Battle of the Five Armies, Dáin not only rebuilt his kingdom, but, he helped the Men of Esgaroth restore the once powerful city of Dale. Their alliance lasted trough the ages. They celebrated together and they died together, but their relations were true and they both respected their cultures. With this ability, depending of his stance, Dáin could summon 3 different “gifts or aid” from Dalians:

Defensive stance: this will increase the armor of the Dalian outpost since after the rebuilding of Dale, most of the dwarven stonemasons helped the Men to restore the might of Dale.

Normal stance: will provide small treasure around selected area that will increase the income and will represent their notable trade.

Aggressive stance: should summon several upgraded battalions of Dalians that will provide support in times of need. This according to me should give closer touch to the last battle of Dale where they fought together.

Level 10- Nothing stands taller than the might of the Dwarves: here again we can re-use the old ability from 4.4.1 that was able to cast a unique fortress that could produce the units of the other two realms. The usage of the fortress should be reworked as well and instead of only producing units, I propose of giving an ability to create earthquake around the building similar to how the Earth Hammer works. Good for defending the building and providing support when troops are nearby in case the odds are too great. In addition to this, once Dáin enters the building, he might summon Durin the Deathless who has long summon cool-down and can use his abilities that we all remember and know.

I hope that you may like this proposal,
Best regards,

Filip Georgievski

Titel: Re: The Road to Edain 4.0: Your feedback
Beitrag von: Walküre am 28. Okt 2019, 17:13
I would just like to spend a few words and thank the team for implementing another of the forum's suggestions into the game. If I recall aright, we had proposed the addition of Galadriel's mirror as a minor optical detail, yet much significant, under the premise that it would both signal the own spell being activated and recycle a renowned 'antiquity' from the dark days of BFME. Nice choice; it fits marvellously :)

(https://modding-union.com/edainimg/sshot0017_1571437432.jpg)