As this is a thread for such ideas, unfortunately ideas relating to new fractions tend to get closed here :(
I don't disagree, its just I feel that in the "Other" section of off topic, ideas can be forgotten about and are out of the way and hidden.As this is a thread for such ideas, unfortunately ideas relating to new fractions tend to get closed here :(
They tend to get closed for very precise reasons. All the English Moderators have followed this custom so far; not because we are evil or because we don't want you to share your ideas in regards of new factions (you can see yourself how many people participated in the Evil Men thread), but for the fact that new factions are a completely speculative topic and we don't have any planned news concerning them nor vague indications by the Edain Team.
The Edain boards are meant to gather discussions or proposals that relate to known content and factual elements. Also, there is still a major faction yet to be released and I guess most of the attention of the Community will rightly be conveyed to the Misty Mountains.
By the way, I won't lock the topic. I will just move it to the Off-Topic section ;)
I find them quite convincing, so in my eyes Dorwinion could or better should be a Kingdom of Men. However it is quite likely that the Kingdom was destroyed with Bladorthins death. Otherwise Bladorthins heirs should have been mentioned at some point in the Legendarium, e.g. in the Hobbit, claiming the spears their forefather had ordered.
- The kings and kingdoms of the Light Elves are all accounted for. Bladorthin could then only have been a Dark Elf. But Dark Elves would not use names that are legible in Gnomish or Sindarin.
- Elven kingdoms of the Third Age did not maintain armies to be equipped, so there would have been no need for Bladorthin to order a delivery of such size.
- No Third Age Elf, however dark, would have ordered his arms from Dwarves.
- The fall of a major Elf-king (long since dead) would have been remembered much more profoundly in the histories.
- The custom of using Elvish names is known not only from Elves but also among the Dúnedain of Arnor and Gondor. They rarely occur as well among other peoples under the cultural influence of Westernesse (p.e. Girion Lord of Dale).
- The indiscriminate use of the title "king", rather than "Elven-King" or "Dwarf-king", suggests that he was of the kind most familiar to the hobbitish author and the reader.
I know that edain have already chose their two new factions but it is always interesting to speak about some new concepts even if it won't be include,...
so i was speaking a really short time with dkbluewizard and i had already a nice concept, i think ...
DORWINION
•1) The choice is yours:
We know that Dorwinion in the fan culture is a region whit a part of elves and a majority of men, so at the beginning of the skirmish, the player could choose between the elves and the men, with particularities for each parts.
•2) The Elves:
The beginning; at early game, dorwinion should be a faction more based on resources, the first units could be a men militia, the vineyards guards, a unit of five men only and at for example 500 instead of 200 but the resources buildings could be up, and gives 30 instead of 15 the dorwinion factions could recruit messenger that make peace for X time but that are high in price and disappear after a time it gives a real neutral effect of dorwinion faction... the barracks could recruit powerful elves units but high in price and at the oupost, a men outpost where you have elite men units and one hero. At the little oupost, they could choose between vineyards where you can recruits vineyards guards and that gives you money, a merchant outpost, there you can recruit neutral merchants, so enemy can't attack him and you have to sell it in enemy camp and, finally a little watchtower
The late game; in the later game, dorwinion could recruit their strong units, the Thorns Guards and Bladorthin swords both elven elites units.
•3) The Men:
The beginning; There, dorwinion would be a military faction focused on numerous units, their units count 10 mens but they are less strong than elves but at a lower price. There at the outpost they recruit elite elves and one hero.
The late game; in the later game, dorwinion could recruit their strong units, the Vintners court guards, and the prrt i don't know :P
Maybe Diewalkure, you could merge this with the Dorwinion Proposal?
The Court is defensive with a focus on caverly while the cult is agressive and a focuse on infantry.
I actually like this idea LordofLinks, I think I can get behind a divided Dorwinion faction. However, I see some issues with the lore of heroes and historical units names. We'll work on that but this is a really good start.On the topic of the Blue Wizards; firstly I may have simplified things a bit too much for the sake of not having to write too much; what I mean is that both wizards wish for Sauron to fall; however one looks at the big picture and sees Dorwinion is far from any allies bar small strongholds of elves and dwarfs and makes the decision that if Dorwinion goes to war innocent lives will be lost for no purpose; as according to him Dorwinion can make no difference and he may even know the true battle will lie with Gondor and Mordor. The other wishes to make a stand, and refuses to grant any concession to the Shadow; even if it means the loss of innocent lives for little purpose. In this context I feel it makes little difference which wizard is on which side, as they are both right and both wrong. I subscribe to Tolkien's original work; when they came with the other Istari and not before, and hence I believed they failed which is evidenced by the ascendancy of Rhun and the siege of Erebor I feel; because if they were capable of helping why did they allow Rhun to grow powerful enough to assault both Erebor and Gondor at the same time. To summarise the 'evil' wizard is not evil; rather they pursue a just goal of preserving as many lives as possible, when their sacrifice would be in vain, even if it means bowing to the enemy.
I have a massive list of characters we could use, though I like the men that LordofLinks made up, I do suggest that Lenwe may be a possible candidate for "The Court" side. Since Pallando should be weaker, it might be nice having Lenwe or Daeron (since he went to the East...FACT) helping Pallando (Romestamo) out.
Although, it never says the Blue wizards were allied to Sauron, but if what you present is Alatar becoming more like Saruman, I am okay with--but I think we may be shifting too far from the canon of the Blue Wizards, after all, they failed but they were the best of friends. While we could "ASSUME" they had a falling out like Gandalf and Saruman, it is a big assumption.
I understand that we try to give Sauron as many Maia allies as possible in middle earth, but I am not too sure about Alatar given his nickname from Tolkien was Darkness Slayer. So Darkness Slayer seems like an odd name if he is working with the Dark Lord.
I am all for your idea, but there needs to be some canonical issues flushed out man. Good job overall!
I know myself, that I phrased this more extreme than necessary, but in a way I guess this is my honest opinion.
The enemy? His sense of duty was no less than yours, I deem. You wonder what his name is, where he came from. And if he was really evil at heart. What lies or threats led him on this long march from home. If he would not rather have stayed there in peace. War will make corpses of us all.
In this perspective, it's quite obvious that, on the other hand, this proposed Dorwinion faction will inexorably need some fictional additions whatsoever, given the scarcity of many sources. This fact shouldn't surprise anyone then.Yes, I agree. "Some fictional additions" as you said are however something completely different than a faction, were every single unit and hero is fictional! The entire setting is speculation (civil war), the entire unit roster is fictional (partly well designed, partly badly designed) and the entire hero roster is fictional. I could also argue, that it is "uncanonical" (Gosh, I hate this word! xD) for one obvious reason: The prominence of female heroes which are extremely minor in Tolkien's works WITH RESPECT TO THEIR PRESENCE IN BATTLE. (I felt forced to write this in capitals, otherwise Walküre might have destroyed me. ;))
In this sense, this quotation of Faramir always reminds me of Middle-earth's (Men's) multicoloured nature.......Yes... About that, it appears, that I forgot about that quote... 8-| I might also add, that this might be one of Tolkien's legendary "write this, say this"-moments: Faramir says, there the Men of the East aren't intrinsically evil -eventhough during the entire history of Arda, there was at most an era of non-aggression between them and the west. Yes, he describes them as brave (much braver than orcs!), but still there was never peace or say, harmony, between east and west. It's like the elf lady we hear so much about who is said to be one of the wisest creatures and greatest leaders against Sauron in ME, eventhough she fails to check the ominous dark fortress, literally right across the Anduin, whose presence was known to her directly (Eorls ride) for 400 (!!!) years and of whose malicious interests there was no doubt. ;) OK, Lorien-DG is 100 miles, but honestly? 400 years? And it's not like the elves were doing much during this time. Seriously, in 1617, Newton hadn't even published his Axiom's, thus physics was basically just philosophy. (Of course, that's not my point and obviously hyperbole! My point is, that Tolkien did this more than once, where someone is said to be something, he / she really isn't, coming to think about. :D)
It is not the time but Cult Leader must say 'Night is dark and full of terrors' :DI'm not sure if Morgoth was what they had in mind for the Lord of Light, but if she ends up burning the infidels and heathens, then why not give her these quotes?
Since a majority of WT members agree I shall proceed. I've created a page here for you to post the basic faction information. You can use the other faction pages as a template,if you need any formatting but don't know how to do it just leave me a note, I'll have a look over it later (ex: FN: Make this a section header). I'll copy the basic format and let you do the rest, you just have to go to the page and click edit in the top left corner, once you're done just click submit and we'll talk more about units and hero pages. I'll get a banner and the categories sorted out, don't worry about that.
Page: Link (http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Dorwinion)
For everyone interested, lordflinks's proposal has been accepted, you now have a (empty) page on the wiki for your concept, once it is filled out we will talk some more to see how we will go along for building, hero and unit pages. I'll just post what I posted over there:Thank you. This is something we will utilise once we begin looking at heroes and units in detail; as a word document is not suitable for such indepth words.Since a majority of WT members agree I shall proceed. I've created a page here for you to post the basic faction information. You can use the other faction pages as a template,if you need any formatting but don't know how to do it just leave me a note, I'll have a look over it later (ex: FN: Make this a section header). I'll copy the basic format and let you do the rest, you just have to go to the page and click edit in the top left corner, once you're done just click submit and we'll talk more about units and hero pages. I'll get a banner and the categories sorted out, don't worry about that.
Page: Link (http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Dorwinion)
I have read all topic and I'm impressed by your work lordoflinks and dkbluewizard. I'm trully supporter of this idea 😀 as it can bring more uniqueness and freshness to mod. Probably it's too late for that kind of proposal but if you will think about units concept design I would recomend to look on Scoia'tael from Witcher franchise. I know that they wouldn't suit to greece architecture but there is briliant simple of cooperating all races ( Havekars' men, Dol Blathana elves and Mahakam dwarfs ). Additionally elves in Sapkowsky's universe who ruled by queen and lived in wild nature, allways reminds me of those dark mystery Avari who never seen the light of two trees. Now thanks to gwent online we have plenty of concept designs that can be covered to more fitting to Tolkien's universe.Thank you for your kind words. Why it is too late to alter the visual design of the Dorwinion units, the second image you provided is the perfect inspiration for the Avari guard, ambassador and lancer; allowing us to establish them as truly alien, when contrasted with the elves that saw valinor and the light of the trees.
I just leave link to game's site if you want to see sth 😆:
http://www.gwentdb.com/deckbuilder/30001-eithne
EDIT:
or
http://2blind2draw.deviantart.com/art/scoia-tael-399345709
I can trully understand if you if you stay with your own idea. As a huge fan of this two worlds I just couldn't miss an option of combaining them 😉.
Thank you for your kind words. Why it is too late to alter the visual design of the Dorwinion units, the second image you provided is the perfect inspiration for the Avari guard, ambassador and lancer; allowing us to establish them as truly alien, when contrasted with the elves that saw valinor and the light of the trees.
Is this faction cancelled? Because link is death.I think no but, it seems that the link is just broken. Here's the real link: http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Dorwinion_(Concept)
weren't there any dwarves near dorwinion? i could have swore the red mountains were thereIn my concept, (http://edain.wikia.com/wiki/Dorwinion), the good subfraction of Dorwinion can build an Orcani Bastion which allows them to recruit the Orcani Dwarfs
I just wish to apologize for the lack of updates. A lot of stuff has come up for me and I do not have enough time.Take your time. I think you've done quite a good job with the previous updates! :)
Sorry...
@dkbluewizard
I truely understand your suggestions and not against them but when i prepared the consept, i thought there must be some rules like prioraties of subjects or the heroes can not be stronger than rest faction ones as don't effect the WotR years. The core is trade and peace in Dorwinion, this endures all of time with business ethics. Also Blue Wizards do not have centered roles, this changes the balance of faction. So they must be used differently than other major Istari. However thanks for precious feedback. I will discuss almost every suggestion as long as i get the time.
@Shadowlord
Thanks for positive feedback, i am happy to have your support. The base story offers to choose providing new (uncalculated yet) allies or accepting New Shadow amongst local folks.
If Arnor won't be the last, this might be an alternative as gathering unnoticed parameters during 3rd age like the cult may start in the same period.
Edain Team might consider to add this to be the last. However there two more factions to come, this gives the community to improve whatever they worked until that time. If i speak for myself, i am not abandoned the consept but i need work in different area (i got promoted in real life with more hours). So we should move on until the rightful time arrives. I hope this won't be so long because it is really impossible to stay away from Edain.
Side by side, unto death.