Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Mordor Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: Lord of Mordor am 24. Aug 2015, 00:44

Titel: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Lord of Mordor am 24. Aug 2015, 00:44
In this thread, you can post small Mordor suggestions. There are no fixed rules for whether a suggestion should be posted as its own thread in the suggestions forums or in this collective thread, you  may decide yourself whether you think your idea needs its own thread. As a general guideline, though, an idea that can be presented in just a couple of sentences may not need its own thread and could be discussed here, preventing the forum from getting too cluttered. On the other hand, if you want to discuss an aspect of the game in great depth or propose something like an entirely new hero with a full new set of abilities, a new thread might be more appropriate.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Aug 2015, 04:15
i think sauron should have a giant vampire bat form and when he is changing to his fire form his palantir photo should look like this


i think sauron can use a new palantir photo when he transforms into a werewolf
what do you say ???
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 24. Aug 2015, 10:32
Edit your comment next time instead of double posting.

I like your first picture (fire form) but I'm not fond on the second one. As for the bat form, the team is unable to do so if I recall correctly. (or simply too much work because there is no model like this already existing)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Aug 2015, 14:40
they can work on the fell beast model
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Aug 2015, 17:11
i think sauron should have a giant vampire bat form and when he is changing to his fire form his palantir photo should look like this


As I have already told you in another thread, Gray, the current Vampire concept of Sauron should certainly be changed, but it's still lore accurate as it is now, as Tolkien described it as a generic 'Giant Bat', thus leaving us open and wide spaces of speculation  :)
This is the picture of the appearance of Thuringwethil the Maia (a Vampire, servant of Sauron in the First Age) according to Ted Nasmith; even if the picture technically shows Lúthien, magically disguised as the evil Maia, it nonetheless is an interesting and reliable representation (closed to the current one)  ;)

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Aug 2015, 18:13
see she s almost big as the wolf ok if not a giant bat then the swarm of slightly bigger they look like normal bats and he can use a one of those for palantir photos what do you say ???
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 24. Aug 2015, 18:35
see she s almost big as the wolf ok if not a giant bat then the swarm of slightly bigger they look like normal bats and he can use a one of those for palantir photos what do you say ???

I think that the first one would be the most suitable one, among all the others, focused only on the central bat, obviously.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 24. Aug 2015, 19:27
yep i think the first one is the best too
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Caronis am 10. Sep 2015, 22:20
Hello ! I really don't like the Dol Guldur armors, they're really to much shiny, is it possible to make they more... dusty ? Thanks :D
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: ringbearer am 28. Sep 2015, 22:56
Hello guys , i have a small suggestion. Can you please add palantir picture , as a passive power , which will say samothing about their usefullnes againsts buidings. Just like you did with dwarven travel camp in 4.1 :) And maybe change their palantir picture so it isť always the same as others easterlings. Good luck with patch 4.2 :)
http://abload.de/image.php?img=sshot0018hhb0e.png
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 28. Sep 2015, 22:59
Yes, great idea.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 2. Okt 2015, 22:30
I have also noticed that Gorbag's greed ability have visual effect on hero (he became red skin), but don't have visual bonus of gained gold. So maybe this could be nice to add, with every hit on building to pomp up simbol +10 (something similar with wildmen's pillage ability)? :P
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 2. Okt 2015, 23:35
Sorry, but this cant be implemented. Its a different system then the one from the wildmen's pillage.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 3. Okt 2015, 00:42
Ok Ea, thanks for fast reply. :) 
Played with Mordor, noticed that there is no this visual effect, thought it is bug, then saw there is change on resources counter, so got this idea. xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: denny31x am 4. Okt 2015, 06:10
Are sauron skill foul vitality really heal 50% of his current health?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 4. Okt 2015, 08:12
Yes it does. Why ? You've noticed anything? ?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: denny31x am 4. Okt 2015, 08:43
I don't know its bit different than 3.8.1 version but still cool
Oh ya,the 5 nazgul hero maybe they can get their own armor like in hobbit 3 all of them get their own unique armor
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 4. Okt 2015, 09:04
the 5 nazgul hero maybe they can get their own armor like in hobbit 3 all of them get their own unique armor

Surely. xD


But for now is ET satisfied with their current design.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 4. Okt 2015, 10:34
i rly love those armors
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 4. Okt 2015, 14:36
Only Khamul got his bofa armor. The other two most likely not. I find Edain's current designs a bit more sensible.  And the WitchKing 100% WON'T get bofa armor.
It always bothered me how they striped the Nazguls of their special aura in lotr. I mean why would they have armor if they're not gonna wear it during WotR!
I view Edain's design as influenced by the WitchKing's wotr armor; the Nazgul is just wearing a helmet -a crown- to create a more imposing war figure. However look at the WitchKing and the other Nazguls with armor, you dont really have a whole head to toes armor. You still have the feeling of those shadowy black robes with powerful faceless beings inside them. Bofa armors were like giving a face to the faceless and demystifying it's magic.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 4. Okt 2015, 20:15
i think they are unique and should be in the game only for the dark marshal and shadow lord , The Witch king dose not need a change !!!! he s the best as he is now
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 24. Okt 2015, 22:32
Could Mumakils get Haradrim archers as an upgrade?
I'm also thinking that upgrade could unlock the upgrade for fire arrows and/or banner carrier for the archers on the mumakil.

It's a quick addition that would allow to get rid of the mount ability and avoid having to implement troops that can mount a mumakil and shoot.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 25. Okt 2015, 01:21
I concur. Mumakill are not really what they should be right now, in my opinion. Haradrim Archers or Spear Throwers would be a nice addition and give them some light form of defense against Pikemen.

I see a couple of ways to do it, but I think the most reasonable way would be to give the Mumakill archers either by default or by influencing Tribute Camps with Sauron.

Perhaps, if we were to give the Return of the King some credit, it might be a nice feature to  have it start with archers and perhaps they would be upgraded to Spear Throwers when the Tribute Camp is influenced.

Nonetheless, the fewer Harad and Easterling units we give Mordor, the more possibilities we have to play with for a (very possible) future Haradrim/Easterling/Khand/Evil Men faction :P.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Skeeverboy am 25. Okt 2015, 01:22
You can do Ork- and Uruk Archers on it, so it is very strong against pikesman and other units :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 4. Nov 2015, 10:44
This is a suggestion for Grond if needs of improving it ever came. It is clearly mentionned in the book that Grond has be enchanted by the Witch-King. I suggest that Grond be given the ability to weaken an enemy structure's defense on the first hit leaving it more vulnerable. This suggestion is only if the need for an buff is required as off now Grond is pretty good apart from maneuverability.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: goat stealer am 4. Nov 2015, 18:39
This might have been suggested a few times before but here goes anyway: What if you could choose to equip trolls with with armor of two different styles, in which you could either give it Dol Guldur armor (http://r58.imgup.net/Trolls9240.png) or Minas Morgul armor. (http://kaiju.wdfiles.com/local--files/wiki:troll/troll_2002_01.jpg) I feel like it would be a nice touch and complimentary to the Guldur or Morgul orcs even if the differences would be purely aesthetic, however it would also be cool if the trolls had differing stats that were similar to the differences between the orcs. (Guldur trolls deal more damage but Morgul trolls are more resilient)

Speaking of trolls, I'd love it if we could purchase spiked clubs for the unarmored trolls or allow them to uproot trees and throw rocks again. Mordor doesn't really need this but it would be nice if the trolls could not be restricted to their hands without having to have Sauron on the field.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 4. Nov 2015, 19:20
I'm in favor of this idea. The Dol Guldur Trolls look very good and deserve a place in the mod imo. And I'm also in favor of allowing the Trolls to pick up a spiked club or throw stones.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 4. Nov 2015, 20:28
I too think it will give a nice touch of uniqueness and help differentiate the Trolls,from where they come! :-)
And the Spiked Clubs will be like compensation for the Lack.of Armor by dealing more DMG being Spiked ! :-)
Also it can interesting if the Trolls depending on.where they come from to have Strengths against some things and other Trolls against other things like Unit,Buildings,Heroes and etc,! :-)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 4. Nov 2015, 20:41
I'm entirely against this suggestion.
Mordor trolls are already probably the unit with the worst control in the entire game due to their many different command sets, spells and upgrades. Diversifying them even more would just make it impossible to ever use their spells. If it was just for an random optical change I could get along with it, but not for a seperate choice. However even then it's in my opinion not worth the time because I like the old armor more -therefore for me it would result in doing work in order to downgrade something. ;)

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 4. Nov 2015, 21:06
Maybe those Dol Guldur troll's skin (model) could be somehow included in MM/Gundabad faction via Power Menu?
I think Trienty suggested something similar here: Link (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30928.msg391768.html#msg391768)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 4. Nov 2015, 21:12
Never saw that suggestion, sounds like a great idea. I will bump it and see if there are any other people willing to discuss about.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 4. Nov 2015, 21:16
Yes, it is one of the oldest topics in General Suggestions section.
And there I think we could discuss everything concerning integration of those Troll models. :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: goat stealer am 4. Nov 2015, 22:33
I'm entirely against this suggestion.
Mordor trolls are already probably the unit with the worst control in the entire game due to their many different command sets, spells and upgrades. Diversifying them even more would just make it impossible to ever use their spells. If it was just for an random optical change I could get along with it, but not for a seperate choice.

I dunno, they're certainly more complex than most basic units both in and out of Edain mod but I can't see the diversity having much of an impact. For the sake of simplicity, they could just have the club upgrade I mentioned replace the ability to throw rocks/uproot trees/eat orcs altogether since you do have a point about how it might not be smart to make an already complex unit even more so.

Maybe those Dol Guldur troll's skin (model) could be somehow included in MM/Gundabad faction via Power Menu?
I think Trienty suggested something similar here: Link (http://en.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30928.msg391768.html#msg391768)

Oooh I like that idea too! If we ever do get Guldur Trolls in Edain as well as that palantir power, it'd be a must to include them in it.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 4. Nov 2015, 23:36
Oh, I'm not talking about this. Actually my problems with Mordor trolls are the following:
1. They are all the same unit (meanig you select all of them via double click), but they have around 5 different command sets / palantirs. Therefore it is almost impossible to use their abilities or even upgrade them accordingly, because you are constantly selecting an empty command set. This makes a unit which a very simple concept (bum rush the enemy and beating at them with one of a large collection of giant weaponry [ugly]) much harder to use than necessary.
2. Their armor upgrade is essentially not needed at least in the current state. In previous versions you would have to buy the upgrades seperately (and needed the troll cage on level 2 for the armor, but on level 3 for the specific weapons), so it made sense to have them as single upgrades. However in Edain 4.0 you get all of the troll upgrades combined by just using Sauron's influence -meaning there is no real point in not giving the trolls a special weapon after already purchasing the armor. (Also now the trolls don't have regular weapons with them without the upgrade.)

Now if you would also add a different armor upgrade, you would again add 4 different commandsets to the trolls, meaning that there were 9 different command sets for a single unit you will select via double click! That's totally crazy.
Edit: Well... Thought about it and of course I'm talking nonsense. ;)


Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 10. Nov 2015, 20:03
In this bug thread (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30519.msg418047.html#new) a user recently noticed that Gorthaur just has the German voice even in the English version of Edain 4.0. Therefore I searched for the equal English one because I made a concept some months ago in the German part of this bulletin board (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30660.msg396312.html#msg396312) which changed Gorthaur's voice .
Eventually I think it is fair to also ask the English community if it is fine with the equal English voice  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot90feJ3F9g&feature=youtu.be)I intend to offer to the Edain Team.
Please object if it is not Ok for you.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 10. Nov 2015, 20:24
Impressive pack and great job.  :)
I would like to hear it in game.
Thank you for sharing this and ask us for opinion.
If I may ask you how you made it?
Is it sound from some game or you record voice and process it with some tools so it gain new voice color and depth and add some background effects?
I presume it is from game, but I have to ask, I am curious a bit.  xD
 
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: helloa2134 am 10. Nov 2015, 22:08
Personally I would prefer Gorthaur use the Black Speech which currently his Ring form uses.  That black speech seems more regal and menacing while the Necromancer's voice seems more savage and feral, which is appropriate since the Necromancer is simply a shadow of Sauron's true strength.  I don't think those movie lines should only be for Sauron's ring form.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 10. Nov 2015, 22:19
Zitat
If I may ask you how you made it?
Is it sound from some game or you record voice and process it with some tools so it gain new voice color and depth and add some background effects?

Well I just cut it out of the orginal English game video sequence therefore I did no change to it at all.
But you of course can change things by audacity for example. You can use a second audio track to import the background sounds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiCZwy1SSAY) as they are used in the orginal sequences. Aditionally you can add an echo, change audio speed, pitches etc. to improve the audio file.
With less knowledge you already can easily change a file like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXgZUzbZNQ8&feature=youtu.be). If you are good you can change it in more ways of course.

I personally have no problem if you are not in favour of the concept because I am not playing the English version.
Finally the English community must then decide if it wants changes or not.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 10. Nov 2015, 22:32
Thanks for answer.
Yes, I am pretty familiar with that open source program. :)
I have no problem either currently. Further processing in term of background cleaning depends from quality of pack inside game. I think this pack will sound nicely with no background problems in game.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Der Dunkle König am 10. Nov 2015, 23:31
Personally I would prefer Gorthaur use the Black Speech which currently his Ring form uses.  That black speech seems more regal and menacing while the Necromancer's voice seems more savage and feral, which is appropriate since the Necromancer is simply a shadow of Sauron's true strength.  I don't think those movie lines should only be for Sauron's ring form.

Sorry, now I'm interested.
Does Sauron only use the black speech in the English version? In the German one he also speaks German; the lines from "The fellowship of the ring" where Frodo used the Ring in the Prancing Pony. "I see you.", "You can not hide.". And the third one, which I can't translate now.
And that sounds awesome. Far better than black speech (, which he uses too).
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 10. Nov 2015, 23:43
Ah I remember that from 3.8.1, where he still talked German. "Du kannst dich nicht verstecken..". Man it was pretty annoying to hear that everytime imo :/.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 10. Nov 2015, 23:49
Zitat
"Du kannst dich nicht verstecken.."
One of my best-of Sauron lines in Edain. xD (Really, it sounds so wonderfully evil...)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 10. Nov 2015, 23:56
Yes Gorthaur formally (4 months ago ?) had these lines in the German Version as well.
I think Leviathan then came up with a voice concept for Gorthaur and in this regard I made a second concept which is now in the German version.
I actually like both of them, but I also like to have different voices depending on Sauron's Status in the game. Just a matter of taste.
The German community was quite clear in this matter by the way. I suppose from what I have read so far the English is not ^^
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Der Dunkle König am 10. Nov 2015, 23:57
Ah I remember that from 3.8.1, where he still talked German. "Du kannst dich nicht verstecken..". Man it was pretty annoying to hear that everytime imo :/.
In my opinion, Melkor is right. Everyone who doesn't hear "Du kannst dich nicht verstecken.", "Ich sehe dich." or "Es gibt kein leben im Nichts, nur den Tod." whenever he clicks on Sauron is a very poor person.

But I think there was a suggestion about a new voice for Gorthaur. ;)

At (Palland)Raschi: You are right.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Nov 2015, 00:03
You made a good choice Palland ;).

But I have a question for you guys; how in heavens name can you watch/play the Moddle-Earth movies and games not in original English, with the original voices of the original actors?? I myself live in the Netherlands, but I would probably die if I ever heard a Dutch version of the movies :D.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 11. Nov 2015, 00:04
Zitat
In my opinion, Melkor is right. Everyone who doesn't hear "Du kannst dich nicht verstecken.", "Ich sehe dich." or "Es gibt kein leben im Nichts, nur den Tod." whenever he clicks on Sauron is a very poor person.
Well, this wasn't exactly what I meant. I was simply referring to Fredius because I personally like this little speech. I have to be honest, that current Necromancer is a bit annoying for me, too, because I don't have any clue what he is saying with this scratchy voice, so I can relate to others, who don't like the German audio. ;)

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

Edit:
Zitat
But I have a question for you guys; how in heavens name can you watch/play the Moddle-Earth movies and games not in original English, with the original voices of the original actors??
My english was bad, when I first watched the movies. [ugly] You are right, some speeches are extremely nice in english (Saruman / Christopher Lee ftw), but tbh the German synchro isn't bad either -some speakers I actually like better, like Legolas: Orlando Bloom's voice is IMO too deep for an elf. Others like Ian McKellen have a pretty strong accent, so I find it hard to understand him, if I didn't know yet, was he is saying. So I guess, it's the mix and personal preference. ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Der Dunkle König am 11. Nov 2015, 00:06
I have to be honest, that current Necromancer is a bit annoying for me, too, because I don't have any clue what he is saying with this scratchy voice, so I can relate to others, who don't like the German audio. ;)

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
My comment wasn't really serious. ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 11. Nov 2015, 00:11
Zitat
I myself live in the Netherlands, but I would probably die if I ever heard a Dutch version of the movies

I live close to the border of the Netherlands and I can tell you that I would not be amused if the German version had some forms of dialect in it as they are used here ^^
But Standart German is fine and sounds well (sometimes intimidating) if spoken correctly.
I would not say Dutch sounds very intimidating but more friendly, happy and sometimes like childish German. Please do not feel offended, it is just my opinion I try to express somehow  xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: helloa2134 am 11. Nov 2015, 00:12
Personally I would prefer Gorthaur use the Black Speech which currently his Ring form uses.  That black speech seems more regal and menacing while the Necromancer's voice seems more savage and feral, which is appropriate since the Necromancer is simply a shadow of Sauron's true strength.  I don't think those movie lines should only be for Sauron's ring form.

Sorry, now I'm interested.
Does Sauron only use the black speech in the English version? In the German one he also speaks German; the lines from "The fellowship of the ring" where Frodo used the Ring in the Prancing Pony. "I see you.", "You can not hide.". And the third one, which I can't translate now.
And that sounds awesome. Far better than black speech (, which he uses too).

Ahh let me correct myself.  He uses a mixture of German and Black Speech lines taken from the LOTR Trilogy.  However, I would prefer it remain that way if for no other reason than German and Black Speech sound more similar than Black Speech and English.  It also sounds more badass.  :D

My point primarily was that I think Gorthaur and Sauron (Ring-form) should have the same voice.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 11. Nov 2015, 00:14
those can be used when he s in his ring form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXlVtk92HPo
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 11. Nov 2015, 00:16
Zitat
those can be used when he s in his ring form https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXlVtk92HPo

As far as I know it is already used when he appears with the ring.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Nov 2015, 00:37
Zitat
My english was bad, when I first watched the movies.  You are right speeches are extremely nice in english (Saruman / Christopher Lee ftw), but tbh the German synchro isn't bad either -some speakers I actually like better, like Legolas: Orlando Bloom's voice is IMO too deep for an elf. Others like Ian McKellen have a pretty strong accent, so I find it hard to understand him, if I didn't know yet, was he is saying. So I guess, it's the mix and personal preference. ;)

Yes, it all comes to personal preference eventually. I've seen the German version myself, and Gandalf's voice actor sounded very good! Legolas was abit to feminin though in my opinion :P!

I live close to the border of the Netherlands and I can tell you that I would not be amused if the German version had some forms of dialect in it as they are used here ^^
But Standart German is fine and sounds well (sometimes intimidating) if spoken correctly.
I would not say Dutch sounds very intimidating but more friendly, happy and sometimes like childish German. Please do not feel offended, it is just my opinion I try to express somehow  xD

Yes I know, I speak German myself an altough I sometimes make fun of it, it definetly sounds better than Dutch in my opinion xD. I always watch everything in the original language, because the actors then really let you hear the emotion they had during the acting itself. I've never found German an intimidating language though, I rather would say that both Dutch and German sound very friendly xD! But I'm Russian myself so to me every other language sounds friendly :D.

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 11. Nov 2015, 00:38
To quote myself; I actually love the german sound for Sauron. With no offence, to my ears german sounds more Black Speech-ish, which is awesome xD

But I'm Russian myself so to me every other language sounds friendly :D

Oh don't you say. I have a russian friend in my dorm, and russian sounds horrible to me. Bloody World of Tanks Trolls [ugly]

BTW could we PLEASE stop this linguistics discussion here, and get back to topic. So much for "brief suggestions"  :P
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 11. Nov 2015, 00:41

and i know why brat xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 11. Nov 2015, 01:08
Hahaha yeah I know we have a bad reputation on online games, right Gandalf xD! Anyway yeah time to go back on topic again.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: goat stealer am 11. Nov 2015, 05:36
I've got a few more suggestions, two of which have probably been covered innumerable times since they're about Haradrim/Easterlings but I figured that since they're smaller tweaks, they'd be better suited here so let's get started!

More Tribute Camps bring more reinforcements

Sauron's Influence on the Tribute Camps originally increased the amount of Haradrim/Easterling units you could summon upon activating the power but this sadly got replaced with unit upgrades. Though I acknowledge that orcs are the backbone of Mordor's forces, I still believe that evil men should have a little more of a presence so what if we could bring in more of them with each summon if we had more Tribute Camps? If you have 3 Tribute Camps the amount of reinforcement's you'd get will be doubled and if you have 6 or more you'd get three times as many as you'd normally get with just one, to balance it you'd have to have 240 free Command Points to double down and 350 Command Points to triple down on your Easterling buddies (600 and 900 for your Harad buddies). It isn't the most ideal solution but if evil men must only be available by summoning and must have their powers on such a high cooldown, it'd be nice if we could get more a bang for such a hefty buck.

Reinforcement tweaking

Adding on to the previous suggestion, I'd like the Haradrim power tweaked so we can actually get some dang archers to go with the Mumakil, even if they have to walk into the map and be moved on that way. After all Haradrim were renowned archers in both movie and book and not including them is like making a Jaws movie and forgetting to put the shark in. Having the spear throwers would also be nice but having them along with the archers and the mumakil and the horsemen might be a bit too much. As for the Easterling power, I'd like to see some Corsairs along with the pikemen and warriors - It's not the most fitting place for them since Umbar is more south than east but if we can have access to their ships surely we should be able to have some way to bring the brigands onto dry land for the fun.  ;)

Morgul Captains

This one's more of a spitball but I've always wanted to see some wargs for Mordor to call their own. Them being a standard cavalry unit's out of the question since that's supposed to be a weakness of theirs but if the Iron Hills faction could get a few Ram riders as scouting units that can be upgraded into battalions at a high enough level, maybe Mordor could get Warg Riders in a manner similar to this? It isn't that high on the priority list and the faction can get by without them just fine but it'd be nice to have, them being Morgul Captains would fit well with Gothmog since he currently has the only Warg in seemingly all of Mordor. :P
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Nov 2015, 07:07
As you mentioned that was the original plan but was scratched for reasons. I don't think the team would include it back in. Apart from that it would be pretty cool to get more
Zitat
more a bang for such a hefty buck.
Except it doesn't cost that much, understand me haradrim power are often the third or fourth power I get so it doesn't costs much more then 4 point (1 for tier 1 + 3 for tier haradrim) if the player was to be able to constitute a massive army of elite troops based on nothing but a couple tribute camps. I believe the tweaking for the reinforcements lies elsewhere.

No comments there, I've been ranting about this all over the forum. +1

I like it, it's mentioned several times that mordor had a small supply of wargs, whether ridden or just free but I don't see the team adding it as it would just be 1) a copy of the goat's system 2) a copy of the isengard wargs 3) make mordor wayyyyyyy too op. It could be that gothmog gets an ability instead of his "release the prisoners" that lets him summon wargs that will follow him around when he his mounted.

Keep up the good work  xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: (Palland)Raschi am 11. Nov 2015, 11:53
I do not want any warg Units in the Mordor gameplay, sry. I think The_Necromancer0 gave a reasonable Explanation.
Concerning the Haradrim Spell I have to agree that there should be archers on the Mumak. But as far as I know it causes bugs. But maybe a more knowing user can enlighten me ^^

Zitat
Except it doesn't cost that much, understand me haradrim power are often the third or fourth power I get so it doesn't costs much more then 4 point (1 for tier 1 + 3 for tier haradrim) if the player was to be able to constitute a massive army of elite troops based on nothing but a couple tribute camps. I believe the tweaking for the reinforcements lies elsewhere.

I would Support this Statement.

I do not want to Fragment the discussion of the concept but the Gorthaur voice Topic is not finished yet.
In fact I supposed that this will not be a heavily discussed issue because in the German part of the MU it was not and therefore I wrote it in here ("Brief" suggestions).
But now it seems to be much more difficult than I have thought in the beginning.
As far as I see it, there are 3 ways to handle this issue:
a) The German voice is a bug and it should be replaced with the former voice
b) The German voice is not a bug and everything stays as it is
c) The German voice should be replaced with the equal English Version I have presented above

Do you Need a poll or something ? Because this is in fact a matter of taste and every way to handle it is reasonable. Eventually I did not intend to make a big thing of this but it seems that probably this is not avoidable.

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 11. Nov 2015, 12:13

Ok I'll try to cover all the points so far:
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 11. Nov 2015, 12:16
Personally I would prefer Gorthaur use the Black Speech which currently his Ring form uses.  That black speech seems more regal and menacing while the Necromancer's voice seems more savage and feral, which is appropriate since the Necromancer is simply a shadow of Sauron's true strength.  I don't think those movie lines should only be for Sauron's ring form.


The 'feral' and 'wild' element could nevertheless fit Gorthaur really well, I think.
In the First Age he was widely known and feared as a dreadful deadly Sorcerer, Lord of Werewolves and Vampires, capable also of gathering other evil creatures and spirits under his power.
That's why the Sindar named him 'Gorthaur', meaning literally 'Terrible Dread'.

I believe that a more 'regal' and authoritative attitude of his belongs more to the Second Age, when he exactly wanted to be the only Ruler of Middle Earth, expanding at the others' expence.

In fact I supposed that this will not be a heavily discussed issue because in the German part of the MU it was not and therefore I wrote it in here ("Brief" suggestions).
But now it seems to be much more difficult than I have thought in the beginning.
As far as I see it, there are 3 ways to handle this issue:
a) The German voice is a bug and it should be replaced with the former voice
b) The German voice is not a bug and everything stays as it is
c) The German voice should be replaced with the equal English Version I have presented above

Do you Need a poll or something ? Because this is in fact a matter of taste and every way to handle it is reasonable. Eventually I did not intend to make a big thing of this but it seems that probably this is not avoidable.


As far as I know, every German sound which still remains in the English version is always technically a bug, though appreciated could ever be  :P

I personally like very much the English tracks you proposed, and I believe they would do great in the game.
Starting a poll could be a bit premature now, I think, and the usage of polls has as well being discussed among the Moderators due to a recent misusage of them.

So, you could copy and paste your proposal in the Sounds thread, where there could definitely be a wider and more detailed discussion regarding this matter  :)

http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,31775.msg410929.html#msg410929
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 11. Nov 2015, 13:12
It seems that I and hoho96 made two opposed statements  [uglybunti]

I think that this discussion rightly fits to the Sounds thread, being it not related to conceptual matters like abilities, models, lore accuracy and other ones of that kind.
But, it's also true that the topic was also starting to go beyond the borders of a sound suggestion, involving also the gameplay and the lore.

So, if this debate really widens too much and turns into a conceptual proposal, (Palland)Raschi can easily start a thread in the Mordor Section as our hoho96 suggested  :)

P.S. Being hoho96 the main English Moderator, and having a flaming sword in his hand, I think that he theoretically has the last word among the other English Moderators (only me, in simple words  :D)  8-)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 20. Dez 2015, 23:20
Hello! I have a visual suggestion for mordor. I think, that the picture of the first spell of sauron (forgot its name) must be changed (when he gets the ring). It's because now this passive spell has the same picture as "the extension of power".  I think, that Sauron's passive ability should look like this: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/2/2e/Sauronringpic2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20070520233418

So what do you think?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 21. Dez 2015, 04:45
agree
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 14:51

That is indeed nice suggestion concerning changing look of palantir button of passive ability "Lord of Mordor".
I would also like to see different one from "Extension of Power".
Concerning picture you proposed, I find it more correlated to some ability of power which requires usage of one ring (Like for example ability "Master Ring").
I personaly think that it is nice suggestion concerning your picture, but for this passive "Lord of Mordor" I would like more to see some picture with Sauron,
for example this one, where we see his domination over his servants:

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_1600,w_2560/t_mp_quality/ngbsnlejolhk2tpxyqfa/4-fantasy-characters-that-could-kill-lord-sauron-481215.jpg

Or some of these:

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/the-lord-of-the-rings-and-the-hobbit/images/d/d4/094666-sauron.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130808135658

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRomED_goSaib2F7-SNWDllUSCCvq7RTDaT0p_wA3Ju1fIwd82s

Personaly I would like that first one with all those "minions&slaves" around him, it is correlated in the best way to nature and title of passive ability in my opinion. :)

Best regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 21. Dez 2015, 15:02
Well, I agree CragLord. I would better prefer the second one, because I think it would remain visible clearly when wrapped into a small icon of power.  About the first one, I think that it would be cool, but hard to make that the picture remained qualitative and clearly visible! ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 15:06
I could try to make palantir buttons from them, and I will post them when I am done.
Then we can discuss about quality. :)

This picture is also very nice in my opinion:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/d/d4/Sauron_Mordor.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140102134424&path-prefix=de

Regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Dez 2015, 15:08
Well, I agree CragLord. I would better prefer the second one, because I think it would remain visible clearly when wrapped into a small icon of power.  About the first one, I think that it would be cool, but hard to make that the picture remained qualitative and clearly visible! ;)


+1

And, I would add, the third one would fit greatly, since it's also the Avatar of our own 'Lord of Mordor' on ModDB  xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 16:31
Maybe this is comment for show case section or some cosmetic topic about Mordor, but here is some buttons I am suggesting for look of palantir button of "Lord of Mordor" passive ability:


All versions are very suitable in my opinion, but I think that version III with Sauron and Mount Doom & Barad-dûr in his background is the best one for this passive with title Lord of Mordor. In my opinion it describes passive in the best visual way. :)

PS. For people who don't know what are we suggesting, some snapshot from game:
      http://postimg.org/image/ny1q75zc3/full/

Best regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 21. Dez 2015, 17:32
Oh, yes. Now when I see those pictures, I can agree that all of them are suitable, but I still like the first one!  ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 17:54
If you meant on your initial proposal, here is one of possible versions of button:


As I have said, in my opinion the best way to use this one for some other ability correlated to one ring, for example "Master Ring" ability, not this "Lord of Mordor".

P.S. Or you thought on first picture I have proposed? xD
In that case, that picture has't good proportions, so there is no chance for some good button in my opinion...

Regards,
Crag
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 21. Dez 2015, 18:37
No, I meant your first one. And I just imagined that the picture I proposed above could be used for ability "the master ring" so it's like you looked in my mind! :D
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 18:42

Hehe. xD
Nice to hear that. ;)

Regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 21. Dez 2015, 18:45
And about the last one of yours - do you think that it will be detailed when made into small icon. I doubt that someone will notice Barad'dur tower and Mount doom in background. ;)

All best,
TheWhiteGandalf
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 21. Dez 2015, 18:58
Well, Mount Doom will be visible, while Barad-dûr won't be.
These buttons are a bit larger in game then standard buttons from hero ability palantir, so I think everything will be in order if team decide to implement this anyway. ;)

Usually I scale buttons to gameplay size which is 65x65 pixels I think (beside that a bit larger version which I have presented here). These ones from Sauron's book of abilities are a bit larger, so I don't know their precise size (they are same as power buttons), so I left them in a bit larger presentation version. 
On 65x65, that picture (Version III) looks really nice in my opinion. :)

PS. If you are curious, you can use paint, there is scale option. ;)

Regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 21. Dez 2015, 19:48
Well, Mount Doom will be visible, while Barad-dûr won't be.
These buttons are a bit larger in game then standard buttons from hero ability palantir, so I think everything will be in order if team decide to implement this anyway. ;)

Usually I scale buttons to gameplay size which is 65x65 pixels I think (beside that a bit larger version which I have presented here). These ones from Sauron's book of abilities are a bit larger, so I don't know their precise size (they are same as power buttons), so I left them in a bit larger presentation version. 
On 65x65, that picture (Version III) looks really nice in my opinion. :)

PS. If you are curious, you can use paint, there is scale option. ;)

Regards,
CragLord

Oh, well, then it's ok. ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 1. Jan 2016, 12:01
I suggest that the palantir picture of "Pillar of Flames" (currently blank) be changed to this pic:
(http://cdn.infectedbyart.com/Images/Category_274/subcat_337/1008150353561.jpg)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 1. Jan 2016, 13:37
i agree
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 1. Jan 2016, 18:42
Agreed.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Jan 2016, 19:18
It's a very impressive picture!
Very 'biblical'.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 1. Jan 2016, 19:26
Nice suggestion.
Very fitting picture for Pillar of Fire palantir portrait. :)
I like it also.  ;)

Regards,
CragLord
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 1. Jan 2016, 23:36
I like it.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 4. Jan 2016, 14:13
Hello! I have a suggestion for mordror spellbook power "call the horde". I think when it is used, the horn of Mordor could sound, because it actually makes sense that horn rallies together troops!
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: CragLord am 4. Jan 2016, 14:25
I don't think suggestion is bad, but I think horn sound added to current sound effect would be too much.
I honesty think current sound effect is enough, and more important thing current sound effect is clean sound which precisely fit into this power.
So from my point of view, adding Mordor horn from movie will make a bit mess.

This Mordor horn from movie could be used for something else, some hero summoning ability etc. I am mainly against it, because I think it will ruin quality of current sound effect. As I have said, idea has sence. :)

Regards,
CragLord
 
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Glorfindel23 am 8. Jan 2016, 00:30
hello !
I think that would be cool if the evil men of mordor was recruitable. it could have two new avant post for the mordor the avant post of Harad and the avant post of the Rhun.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 8. Jan 2016, 00:58
hello !
I think that would be cool if the evil men of mordor was recruitable. it could have two new avant post for the mordor the avant post of Harad and the avant post of the Rhun.


The current spells of Mordor that summon the Evil Men on the ground are exactly meant to represent a not so meaningless aspect both conceptually and lore speaking.

It exactly symbolises that those people were Allies of Mordor but indeed not bound to them as the other 'ordinary' foul beings that Sauron often managed to gather.
Being not recruitable highlights their status as the 'exotic Allies from far away lands' that they actually embody (coming from the edges of the map at the sound of their horn, to support the Dark Lord).

There could also be other things to say about the insightful and deep difference from the Humans' malice to the one of Orcs, but this is not the Lore Corner, and I know that the topic could 'escalate' rapidly  xD

Therefore, I eventually think that, if Evil Men were really to be added as regular units that are normally recruited in any structure, the creation of a new Evil Men faction would thus be the only most logical and conceptual idea.
And, there is an interesting thread regarding this exact suggestion in the Off-Topic section, which I sincerely encourage you to read if you are interested  ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Glorfindel23 am 8. Jan 2016, 01:12

Thanks you I go read this topic
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 17. Jan 2016, 22:17
Hello! What do you think about the idea that when Sauron acquires the ring there would be a golden aura of inscription of the One ring around all nazgul? Something like this: 

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 19. Jan 2016, 11:58
i think it would be cool to see that nice idea white
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 19. Jan 2016, 14:19
i think it would be cool to see that nice idea white

Yeah, and now I noticed that Witch-king has this aura around him when unveiled, so I thought that his red aura could be replaced with golden and other nazgul would have this red one! ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 4. Feb 2016, 09:30
Could the Orc Warriors/Pikemen/Archers that are trained in Mordor Barrack/Tents be renamed to Barad-Dur Orc Warriors/Pikemen/Archers. I think it'd give the game a nice symmetry since the other orcs all have their origin in the name (Dol Guldur, Morgul)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fine am 4. Feb 2016, 09:42
But they come from all over Mordor, not just Barad-dûr. Udûn and the Morannon are actually where most of the orcs in service of Sauron live iirc
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 23. Feb 2016, 14:36
I did post about this in a different thread, but I think Mollock having the ability Shatterer while his Sword is being used is a bit odd.  It could also help Mollock because he is not that useful in competitive play in his current state.  I did try to come up with an ability to replace it, but I think it would be better if the team came up with one. 

So the question is would everyone like Mollock getting a new level 5 ability while he is using Sword, while keeping Shatterer while he is using his Hammer?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 23. Feb 2016, 16:17
I agree with Haman. Maybe an ability that will make him better with his sword against single units, like some kind of ground pin stun with his sword or foot like he did in the film to Aragorn. One could also argue that it parallels his hammer ability at level 5. I think that might be interesting!
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 23. Feb 2016, 23:18
I agree with Haman. Maybe an ability that will make him better with his sword against single units, like some kind of ground pin stun with his sword or foot like he did in the film to Aragorn. One could also argue that it parallels his hammer ability at level 5. I think that might be interesting!
I agree that the ability should be similar to Shatterer.  I really like your suggestion.   Something similar to the CaH Cripple Strike would be cool.  Maybe with some sort of stomping animation.   :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: ringbearer am 6. Mär 2016, 23:42
Hello guys, have you considered to increase necromancer attack speed? myabe to match it with galadriels one.  :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 7. Mär 2016, 17:12
I think making the Nercomancer's attack speed higher might make him too powerful again weaker units.  His attack is already very powerful if used correctly, and his other abilities make him a versatile hero already. 

Meanwhile, Galadriel is 3 times Sauron's price, doesn't have an ability that can teleport her out of battle, has to be rebought if killed, and can't hit as many units as Sauron can with a single attack, so I think she should have a higher attack speed then Sauron.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 7. Mär 2016, 18:31
And, more importantly, Galadriel has a body and her Ring of Power on her finger, while Sauron doesn't  ;)

Although the two share similar roles, their status of power in their respective factions is different (Hamanathnath has rightly pointed out the difference in their own cost).
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: NetoD20 am 25. Mär 2016, 14:02
Could you make garrisonable towers available at Mordor's  generic outpost?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 13. Mai 2016, 21:40
Could it be possible to get the charge trample back on the Mumakils? It seemed to have been removed in the latest patch
I'll also beg for Easterling archers to be added once more
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 14. Mai 2016, 16:49
Zitat
Could it be possible to get the charge trample back on the Mumakils? It seemed to have been removed in the latest patch
Yes, because its bugged since the original game. If you've placed some units at the top of mumakhil, this units will bug and swinging around at the front while the mumakhil is in charge.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 14. Mai 2016, 16:58
To be honest, the Mumakil doesn't really need the charge attack. If anything, he'll die faster because of it and how pikes are designed in this game.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 14. Mai 2016, 17:17
I never really liked the Charge Attack either.  Watching the Mumakil run at twice his normal speed and swing his tusks like a maniac..... I don't know it just seems redundant considering the Mumakil can already Trample, and the animation for it just looks odd in my opinion.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Saeros am 15. Mai 2016, 10:45
Zitat
To be honest, the Mumakil doesn't really need the charge attack. If anything, he'll die faster because of it and how pikes are designed in this game.
Why should anyone use the mumakil to charge against pikes?
The mumakil may have trample but it's too slow, this is why it had the charge attack in the first place. It is also a useful ability, since it can be used for a charge towards enemy archers who otherwise (especially elves) are destroying it. Since the ability has a big cooldown is not bad to have it back, as it is really helpful in certain battle conditions but cannot be used endlessly.
The animation is ridiculous though, if the ability returns that should be changed too (if possible)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 15. Mai 2016, 11:08
The animation is ridiculous though, if the ability returns that should be changed too (if possible).

As far as I know, creating completely new animations (especially for this kind of units) is probably one of the most daunting and complicated tasks in modding activity.

So, apart from gameplay-based and conceptual aspects, if there is not an alternative animation that could be used, the technical implication mentioned above clearly indicates that this possibility has very low chances to find a way in the game due to pragmatic modding problematics too. Not to mention that the Edain Team's current priority is anything but coming up with a new animation just for a sole ability.

Therefore, let alone gameplay, it's very unlikely that we will see again that charge feature for the said arguments.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 15. Mai 2016, 13:51
Zitat
Why should anyone use the mumakil to charge against pikes?
Because a competent player will have pikes close to his archers, and when a Mumakil appears and decides to charge into them, the pikes can intercept its charge. Nonetheless, you can mount Orc Archers with Fire Arrows to deal with enemy archers, and have the Mumakill focus down heroes, cavalry, buildings and other monsters. An upgraded Mumak can kill an ent in about two hits. Surely it does not need the charge attack.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: d0m0a am 16. Mai 2016, 14:42
I would suggest to reduce the orcs' cost when recruiting them. The Orcs can stay be free, bu the Orc Pikemen could cost only 100 resources and the Orc Archers cost 200 resources. After all, the Mordor game style is spam a huge army of weak units at low cost. Making Orc Pikemen and Arches cost the same or more as other faction units defeats the reason Mordor's strategy of recruit troops with few resources.

The Orcs recruited in Minas Morgul/Dol Guldir/Cirith Ungol barrack can maintain the price, after all, they're updated orcs and are stronger than the basic recruited orcs.

Also you could rise the price for recruit Siege Weapons and Trolls balance the faction after of reduce the orc's prices.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Saeros am 16. Mai 2016, 17:30
Zitat
So, apart from gameplay-based and conceptual aspects, if there is not an alternative animation that could be used, the technical implication mentioned above clearly indicates that this possibility has very low chances to find a way in the game due to pragmatic modding problematics too. Not to mention that the Edain Team's current priority is anything but coming up with a new animation just for a sole ability.
So the actual problem here is the lack of a decent animation? Or I just didn't understand what you said..? :P

Zitat
Because a competent player will have pikes close to his archers, and when a Mumakil appears and decides to charge into them, the pikes can intercept its charge
So the other competent player will not charge those pikes...
I agree to the rest, but in order to make the mumakil as effective as it can be the charge attack is a pretty good option. The pikes can't protect all those you said at the same time, so if used properly at the perfect time it can turn the tide of a battle!

All in all the mumakil is good but its nerf made it less potent..
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 16. Mai 2016, 17:45
Yes it was a nerf, but the Mumakil is as good as it gets. You don't pay any resources for the damn thing.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 16. Mai 2016, 17:51
I don't think the nerf makes the Mumakil too weak, considering the Mumakil can still trample without the Charge attack. 
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Mai 2016, 18:11
So the actual problem here is the lack of a decent animation? Or I just didn't understand what you said..? :P

I don't think there are plenty of animations available, specifically designed for that unique ability of that unique unit.

As I said, if there are not many alternatives, there is little that can be done. Creating a new animation for units of this kind is something complicated and really demanding. The priorities are others now.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 21. Mai 2016, 15:45
I do get the feeling that the Mûmakil efficiency is decreased, although maybe just slightly, without this ability. I myself used it quite often even though it was clunky: it was some kind of 'suicide' attack when the Mûmak had little health left and I had the opportunity to make it go throuh big clumps of enemies.

I suggest the ability is revamped to do exactly this: high damage output to units for a short duration with a long cooldown. Alternatively it could be one high damage attack à la wizard blast with some stunning effect.

This shouldnt be too hard to even balance out if you realise that the Charge ability had a very uneven effect in the sense that sometimes you could do a lot of damage whereas other times you barely hit one unit.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 3. Jun 2016, 03:37
Would it be possible to allow Sauron with the Ring to transform into his other forms and vice versa?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 6. Jun 2016, 21:42
We forbid him to change forms, because of the lore - on the one hand we wanted different forms, on the other hand it was written that Sauron wasn't able to change forms after he made the one ring.
That's why we still gave him the different forms, but forbid him to change as soon as he got the ring.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Der Dunkle König am 9. Jun 2016, 22:29
We forbid him to change forms, because of the lore - [...] it was written that Sauron wasn't able to change forms after he made the one ring.

As far as I know, Sauron just wasn't longer able to take a shape which seemed nice to the eyes of men after this 'nice' body was destroyed during the Akallabêth. He still should have been able to change to the form of a vampire, wolf and so on after that - but, for example, not to Annatar. Or am I wrong?

Zitat von:  The Silmarillion, Akallabêth
But Suaron was not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in which he had wrought so great an evil, so that he could never again appear fair to the eyes of Men, [...]
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 9. Jun 2016, 23:37
As far as I know, Sauron just wasn't longer able to take a shape which seemed nice to the eyes of men after this 'nice' body was destroyed during the Akallabêth. He still should have been able to change to the form of a vampire, wolf and so on after that - but, for example, not to Annatar. Or am I wrong?

Good question. As far as I always understood, not only was Sauron deprived of the possibility to disguise himself in a fair form, but he also lost his capability of shape-shifting (which is the most iconic and recognisable property of the Ainur). The lore expressly tells us that, if the Valar or the Maiar face physical death (that is, the physical loss/destruction of their body), they are very likely to be subjected to a heavy spiritual damage too, that exactly results in them having their powers diminished or even halved.

I don't have at hand specific quotations about Sauron though; this is what my lore instinct suggested me, basing mainly on speculations  :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 29. Aug 2016, 20:34
Can Ring Hero Sauron be made selectable with the 'Q' hotkey? I find it slightly strange that I have to individually select him after I've given my full army an order to move/attack.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: kmogon am 8. Okt 2016, 08:51
I come up with a little idea - every one is complaing about the range of saurons shadow teleporting and as I know this skill was mainly used to escape from fight or to got close to base with influence. I realy have no idea if it's possible but maybe good option is to change this - it would telepor Sauron to nearest base ( or even outpost ). In that way it would be more lore accurate as if I understand well skill is based on his escapeing form dol guldur to mordor. Additionally this change wouldn't destroy ring mechanic. Another similar option is to allow Sauro to teleport only to base's territory - that would allow him to go from one base to another.
Waiting for feedback ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 8. Okt 2016, 10:31
I support the above suggestion at 100%, this would definitely fix his speed problem and stay within the lore. The best would be of course for the skill to be able to do both, but I doubt that's possible  xD
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Ealendril der Dunkle am 8. Okt 2016, 10:34
Not possible.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 12. Okt 2016, 00:30
I'm not really sure if this is possible, but could the Sauron's Influence Sentry Tower be applied on smaller towers when using the power? I mean, being able to use the power on smaller towers instead of on the big ones. They affect both, if I remember correctly, but the power is only activatable on the big towers.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 16. Okt 2016, 19:53
That would probably be a clusterf*ck and a pain to balance, if not impossible.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Palpou am 19. Okt 2016, 11:40
I have a suggestion. It's about the wraith, when we kill someone with a morgul blade.
You should indicate somewhere that they can revive in the Morgul's Fortress.
It's indicated in Sauron's powers for building but I think it's not that obvious.

Add a little annotation with the grey button for white wraith should be fine I think.
(I don't know if I'm clear :D )
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: lahe95 am 5. Nov 2016, 09:01
I think you should do the same thing with Gorbag and Shagrat as you did with Rumil and Orophin. I know you can summon one of them with a skill but I would love to see them as two separate heroes summoned at the same time just like Rumil and Orophin.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 5. Nov 2016, 15:18
I think you should do the same thing with Gorbag and Shagrat as you did with Rumil and Orophin. I know you can summon one of them with a skill but I would love to see them as two separate heroes summoned at the same time just like Rumil and Orophin.
And then Rumil&Orophin summon won't be unique in the mod...
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Trondheim9 am 18. Dez 2016, 21:49
I had an idea about Grond.  In the Return of the King movie, as Grond comes up to the gates of Minas Tirith, all the orcs chant its name and appear to be inspired by its presence.  In Edain Mod Grond doesn't have any abilities or anything, so what if it gave a small fearless and leadership bonus to nearby orcs (nothing too fancy, a +15% or +20% attack bonus or something)?  I think this could make it more interesting since Grond is basically a hero siege unit.  Just a small thought.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Fredius am 18. Dez 2016, 21:59
Oehh I like it, a small but effective suggestion. It makes Grond even more like a hero worthy to be a last tier spell, and less like just a nuclear battering ram :). I agree.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: -DJANGO- am 18. Dez 2016, 22:10
+1 for Grond
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 18. Dez 2016, 22:19
Grond was named after the Hammer of the Underworld held by Morgoth. It's thus logical to infer that Grond of the Third Age might have a very strong symbolical meaning for all evil forces, just like Morgoth himself was worshipped as the ancestor of the Evil itself. Furthermore, in the EE of ROTK, the arrival of that siege machine does have a great impact on the Orcs' morale. I agree with this proposal. Green light from me.

+1 for Grond

It seems that today is the day of brief suggestions related to the Land of Shadow  :P
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: DaGeggo am 18. Dez 2016, 22:44
+1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Melkor Bauglir am 18. Dez 2016, 23:16
From an atmospheric point I like it and from a balance point of view, I really can't see this screwing over anything. Thus: +1

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 19. Dez 2016, 01:10
I had an idea about Grond.  In the Return of the King movie, as Grond comes up to the gates of Minas Tirith, all the orcs chant its name and appear to be inspired by its presence.  In Edain Mod Grond doesn't have any abilities or anything, so what if it gave a small fearless and leadership bonus to nearby orcs (nothing too fancy, a +15% or +20% attack bonus or something)?  I think this could make it more interesting since Grond is basically a hero siege unit.  Just a small thought.
Completely agree.  Great idea.  +1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: lordoflinks am 19. Dez 2016, 03:31
I had an idea about Grond.  In the Return of the King movie, as Grond comes up to the gates of Minas Tirith, all the orcs chant its name and appear to be inspired by its presence.  In Edain Mod Grond doesn't have any abilities or anything, so what if it gave a small fearless and leadership bonus to nearby orcs (nothing too fancy, a +15% or +20% attack bonus or something)?  I think this could make it more interesting since Grond is basically a hero siege unit.  Just a small thought.
+1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: DrHouse93 am 19. Dez 2016, 04:10
GROND! GROND! GROND! GROND!
(As you may have noted, I support that idea)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 19. Dez 2016, 11:39
I had an idea about Grond.  In the Return of the King movie, as Grond comes up to the gates of Minas Tirith, all the orcs chant its name and appear to be inspired by its presence.  In Edain Mod Grond doesn't have any abilities or anything, so what if it gave a small fearless and leadership bonus to nearby orcs (nothing too fancy, a +15% or +20% attack bonus or something)?  I think this could make it more interesting since Grond is basically a hero siege unit.  Just a small thought.
+1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 22. Dez 2016, 15:25
"Grond will breach it... and buff our troops" -Gothmog :P
+1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Garlodur am 23. Dez 2016, 02:35
No, I don't agree with this suggestion as it's not clear what it would add to the Mordor faction. Firstly, I don't think a siege machine (albeit popular) should have any leadership abilities, in-game these aspects of sieging are fully covered by Gothmog's abilities. Secondly, Grond already has a lot of 'invisible' abilities and I do see how Grond benefits from a leadership.

If anything Grond would provide fear resistance to nearby troops, but since Gothmog already provides this and should be closeby in order to increase siege damage even further, I don't see any reason to implement it.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 23. Dez 2016, 21:10
I am so glad many of you brought up the fact that Sauron's Vampire form is non-canonical. I mean, he took the form of a giant bat with blood dripping. I don't see that with the bat swarm thing that he transforms into. I mean he is Sauron, not Dracula.

Also, as I posted about Sauron's different forms, I feel that Sauron should have a snake form in his Power of Ages past repertoire. I mean that is canonical and there is already a thread if you guys wanna read about it. It is titled: Sauron's third stance.

Anyhow, I feel just some small tweaks to Sauron and maybe make the hero nazgul unit have more HP like some of the other nazgul and we're good. I feel the 5 nazgul are too weak, but then I understand why, because Gandalf, Aragorn, Glorfindel (and if going by the movie) Elrond and Saruman can take on many by themselves.

So whatever ET decides with the hero unit I am okay with. But Sauron needs some tweaks, big time.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Dain@ am 25. Jan 2017, 19:06
Hello! In my opinion at this time the Nazgul are weak and their price is too high!. If at a later stage of the game are more or less normal, at an early stage it is just madness!. While the Necromancer has not reached the level of 6-7! Nazgul useless! so also the little ones that are very expensive and does not meet the criterion of cost / benefit. And if two Nazgûl still somehow can eyeing the five - they are only useful at level 10. Before hiring does not make sense. WK is strong but very expensive. 3500 is the most expensive characters. Similarly this applies Khamul. 2850! Oh, and yes even with regard to the two Nazgul! I wonder who that updates the Nazgul to the hunter ring? I personally always updated to the marshal. But it will be interesting if someone will share his thoughts. As if there was not one thing it is clear that at least need some polishing Nazgul, with proper elaboration, they can become unique characters. My suggestion about the Nazgul the following: At an early stage to give Nazgul weak capacity but it will be enough for them until the necromancer attains 5 level, because if you upgrade the Nazgul to marshal before Necromancer scored 5 level it is a useless waste of money just think Thorin and Glorfindel are 1800 ! as well as the Nazgul and the benefits that different! I hope this article will lead to a heated discussion about the further development of the Nazgul.



Add a few new abilities (defense, economic, tactical) for Minas Morgul and Dol Guldur. For example, only enough to compare Dol Guldur / Minas Morgul with Dale or Mirkud. Obviously Mirkwood / Dale efficient, cheaper and offers more tactical maneuvers.


Dol Guldur
Price reduced to 2000.
For Dol Guldur I offer the following update:
Poison - Passive. Leave now.
Spiders. - Fortress gets improved spiders. So five huge spiders will guard the fortress. (After using the influence of Sauron)
Enchantment of abandonment - Near the fortress there is a fog that hides the allied forces and they can be cured.
Resident Necromancer. -Pasivnoe. Fortress receives 25% reservation and 25% generate more money. Also, 25% enhances the action of the poison (the damage of the first ability.)
Minas Morgul is still in development
And what do you think?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: mycaelspear am 13. Mär 2017, 08:04
Not a huge rush and not sure if there is a reason this hasn't been done, but could we have the mouth of sauron and the nazgul levels match saurons. Right now they are always 0 no matter what level they are. I think this would make it easier to tell at a glance how strong they currently are.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 13. Mär 2017, 08:33
Right now they are always 0 no matter what level they are.

That is due to a very important aspect: it symbolises that the powers of the wraiths and of the Mouth of Sauron is completely bound to Sauron. Whenever he increases his might, as he does in the lore, those said heroes have their capabilities consequently augmented.

If we consider the fact that the Nine wield the Nine Rings, having been subdued to the Dark Lord's will, and that the Mouth might bear one of the Seven Rings too, their connection with Sauron (the Lord of the Rings) is endowed with a very powerful connotation. Speaking about gameplay, the role of Sauron as the centre and power-source of the faction is a completely unique feature of Mordor, since the other factions don't dispose of these particular mechanics (iconically referred to the nature of the Maia and of his greatest servants).
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FRGCWRU am 17. Apr 2017, 10:32
Hello,

Thanks for the mod. I'm pretty content with most choices made regarding the mod, so I don't actually have any significant suggestions.

I am unaware whether this has been proposed before, but I think Sauron's "Dark Will" ability should not be a time-restricted ability, but rather a togglable one (with a countdown so it can't be exploited). If it's enabled it should disable all his other spell abilities save for maybe Dark Sorcery to heal his wounds.

That way you kind of have a way to give Sauron a more physical and immediate presence like his arrival during The Last Alliance, while giving the player a way to give him a little more backbone so you don't have to keep an eye on him constantly. His gaining of the ring was supposed to put an end to Middle-earth after all.

Just a small suggestion though.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FG15 am 17. Apr 2017, 10:47
Welcome to the forum.

First of all, I don't think this suggestion is a bad idea, but there are some things that are a  bit problematic.
The movement speed bonus the abilitiy grants him would be really usefull as a permanent effect. When out of battle, it would be far better to use the ability to quickly move from one place to another, which contradicts Saurons the fact that his slow speed is his main weakness.
Furthermore, disabling other abilities while Dark Will is active would cause players too use as many abilities as possible, then switch to Dark Will until the abilities have reloaded and the same again.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FRGCWRU am 17. Apr 2017, 10:54
Hello,

Thanks for the reply.

Should he be that slow a force? Not doubting or trying to knock you, genuinely asking because I don't have a specific recollection from the lore stating so.

Your concern about that exploit is troublesome for sure. Hence the suggestion of countdown setting for the "Dark Will" ability. Like you can only enable it every 5 minutes or something, and once enabled it'll take at least 5 minutes before you get the option to change back. Or if this is possible, make it so that whenever you have it disabled and use an ability other than Dark Will it will set the "Dark Will" ability countdown timer back another 60 seconds or so. I don't know what's possible scripting wise though.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FG15 am 17. Apr 2017, 11:06
It's less aboult lore and more about game design. Sauron is probably the strongest hero in the mod both considering raw values and his abilities. So there needs to be some kind of weakness. He is absolutly deadly, but only if he gets close enough to his enemies.

5 minutes would work, but such a long countdown could be really frustrating for players. The other one is theoretically possible, but it is hell of work to code and not worth that much trobule in my opinion.

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FRGCWRU am 17. Apr 2017, 15:11
I see. Just hope it will be considered. I kind of like the idea that he can transfer his power into his physical prowess with the consequence that he foregoes his other abilities. Right now he can do both at the same time, while there's little reason not to. And it seems a little weird that he could only augment himself for short periods yet still have all other spells available simultaneously. It would also go great with the theme of Sauron's versatility/transformations.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: FRGCWRU am 17. Apr 2017, 23:16
Since we're on the subject (and I think it is pretty pertinent to 4.5's Spellbook overhaul). There's two other suggestions I would like to make.

First the more important one. I'll explain why it is important first. I love playing with Mordor, but to me it felt the faction is lacking something, and I know why.

Both Mordor's final "10 point" spells are rarely ever very useful to me. Now I'm not saying they're bad. It's just that they could be tweaked a bit.

I think the Gorthaur spell effect should always be useful, because Grond already rarely is (you can't already have a Grond, and you'd need to have a Siegework at which you aren't already building something else, and it needs to remain intact long enough for it to work; I rarely use siege units anyway since there's already too much to mind in the game without them).

How to do this? Well, I think the Gorthaur spell should have a different effect based on the state which Sauron is presently in. Which currently isn't the case and it only works if Sauron is both purchased, alive, and not in his Ring form. So maybe the Gorthaur effect should instantly revive Sauron back to his original non-Gorthaur form if he's dead. If he's in his regular form it should turn him into his Gorthaur form as usual. And if he's in his Ring form it should give him an extra bonus to his armor. If he's already in his Gorthaur form or in his Ring + Gorthaur form it should just replenish his health.

It also makes hunting for the Ring more viable for Mordor as well. Because currently hunting for the ring means forfeiting the Gorthaur spell which costs a lot of power points and is already almost as strong anyway. Unless you plan on letting Sauron die after gaining the ring only then will the Gorthaur spell be useful again, but then why hunt for it in the first place. If there's one faction for which the hunt of the Ring needs to be important it is Mordor.

The second one: I think Sauron's will keeping Mordor together is a key point that somehow needs to be referenced in Edain. Maybe in the form of a ranged spell for Sauron that gives buildings within a certain area (maybe only the central hub building plus the inner layer of buildings, not the outer towers and walls) a permanent bonus to their armor as long as he's alive.

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Secret Keeper am 21. Apr 2017, 18:38
Hello everyone,

just small question/suggestion. Why mordor can't build towers on their outposts? It seems like they are the only one.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 18. Sep 2017, 18:15
Hello.
I suggest that the Necromancers picture should be changed. Now it resembles that how he attacks, not the actual dark, shady figure. This picture would be more appropirate.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 18. Sep 2017, 22:10
It puzzled me too, sometimes. But I also see the reason for the current design to remain, Gandalf. That's probably the most pivotal scene in which Sauron in his shadow appearance is involved, and he's battling Gandalf in a very fierce of a confrontation. Darkness against Light. The ancestral and never-ending conflict that has stained with blood the long pages of Arda's history. As you understand, the reference is very much iconic. Thus, I personally prefer it to remain as it is :)

So that all peoples and realms shall know about your noble deeds, Gandalf :P
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 18. Sep 2017, 23:08
Yeah, right. But I still prefer more unit centered image not battle centered.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 19. Sep 2017, 00:06
Yeah, right. But I still prefer more unit centered image not battle centered.

Me too. The Necromancer will thus rest as an exceptional case in the game.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: kmogon am 12. Okt 2017, 13:06
I would like to raise the issue of Annatar - the lord of gifts.
His graphic concept in Edain was never too convincing for me, in other words it does not look like someone I could trust XD. In the games Shadow of .... , he is presented very well (the only thing that came out) - he looks like friendly elf which is hiding sth, not a strange ghost person. So my question is:  is it possible to replace the current look of the Annatar to the one appearing in the Shadow of Mordor ?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Okt 2017, 14:43
I would like to raise the issue of Annatar - the lord of gifts.
His graphic concept in Edain was never too convincing for me, in other words it does not look like someone I could trust XD.

He's in fact someone one should NOT definitely trust :D

In my opinion, his overall concept is probably one of the most loyal to the lore and most appealing too, in terms of graphics (and this is the theme we're discussing now). We have very scarce material at hand that comes from the cinematographic adaptation; nearly nothing at all, I daresay, in that the only appearance of him from the films is provided by a sequence that was later jettisoned completely. Nevertheless, I believe we should be content with what we are offered by the LOTR trilogy, instead of looking for other alternatives. Currently, the Lord of Gifts does give the sense of an apparently noble figure of light, generous and willing to help cure the world; on the contrary, his spike-shaped armour suggests that he's not what he proclaims to be. Ambiguity and opposing elements which mingle with each other. That's a very on-point characterisation, reflected by the model.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: kmogon am 12. Okt 2017, 16:06
I'm glad that you Wülkirie shared your opinion about state of annatar's demanour.

"Currently, the Lord of Gifts does give the sense of an apparently noble figure of light, generous and willing to help cure the world; on the contrary, his spike-shaped armour suggests that he's not what he proclaims to be."

I cannot agree with this "simbolic" look. I meam that showing sb's intents by his apperance isn't good way. Especially when Annatar called himself envoy of Valars and Celebrimbor belived him so he had to look like one of them. We can see good example in other implementation of maiar's help - Saruman. He came to middleerth as a wise and experienced man. Even after his fall to Sauron power, he still looks like "master craftsmen" and he could fool even other istari.I know that there are plenty of symbols in whole Tolkien's work but I wouldn't implemet it in that way.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 13. Okt 2017, 01:18
I instead say that it is exactly this symbolic guise that suits the character well. The best implementation. Symbols have a fundamental role in the lore of Arda and in the entirety of Tolkien's writings. It is symbols which speak and tell more than meets the eyes. I could name countless examples: Morgoth and his scars that nothing could cure, Sauron's corrupted fashion after the fall of Númenor, Saruman's multicoloured robes or the weary gaze of Círdan (profound as naught else and indicative of his millenary age). You may see how the physical shape is much revealing, most of the times.

Now, the current model of the Lord of the Gifts does embody an angelic creature, enlightened and emanating radiance. I get what you mean. This is enough, though. There wouldn't be much point in having a totally blessed form of the hero wander around among the ranks of the most evil of the factions: Mordor. The concept on which the model was fashioned shows already what must be shown. The player should see that such bright figure is characterised also by ambiguous sides that hide his true intentions. Sauron's abilities betray also the real schemes he's up to. In simple words, we need know that we're in front of a malicious presence, despite its fair appearance. The concept of LOTR I find just and sound for the purpose. One could say that it's even a kind of miracle that we have a concept in the first place, although the content didn't pass PJ's test.

Also, don't forget that not all Elves were deceived by Sauron. The wisest managed to turn his sham offer down. Namely, Gil-galad, Galadriel and Círdan. If I recall correctly, it is written in the Silmarillion that Sauron had a somewhat cunning and overall suspicious aura around him; detail that those mighty Elves had not missed. Celebrimbor was fascinated more by Sauron's wide-ranging knowledge of the secrets of metallurgy, rather than his fair shape. It's true that turning into a noble figure helped the Dark Lord's plan, yet that was not the sole element of the equation.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 19. Okt 2017, 12:48
I've had a good look at Morgul Shadows and I'm still confused, so basically the description states:
"The life of Morgul Shadow is bound to the will of the Ringwraiths \n Any life the Morgul Shadow loses, will be transfered to nearby Nazgûl \n \n passive ability"

If that's the case I would suggest that the system be switched around, both from a lore-wise perspective it's more likely that the Nazgul feed on lesser wraith to heal themselves and from a gameplay perspective everybody would prioritize a expensive hero over free units.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 19. Okt 2017, 13:24
Isn't that exactly what the description states? Nazgul get healed when Morgul Shadows are taking damage? Or am I missing something here?^^
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 19. Okt 2017, 14:59
After rereading your post 50 times I finally get it. Once you understand the effect then description makes sense but until you explained the effect I was confused. The descriptions should be something more like:

"The life of Morgul Shadow is bound to the will of the Ringwraiths \n Any damage dealt to morgul shadows will heal nearby Nazguls \n \n passive ability"

Or something similar.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 20. Okt 2017, 07:18
I'm glad that you Wülkirie shared your opinion about state of annatar's demanour.

"Currently, the Lord of Gifts does give the sense of an apparently noble figure of light, generous and willing to help cure the world; on the contrary, his spike-shaped armour suggests that he's not what he proclaims to be."

I cannot agree with this "simbolic" look. I meam that showing sb's intents by his apperance isn't good way. Especially when Annatar called himself envoy of Valars and Celebrimbor belived him so he had to look like one of them. We can see good example in other implementation of maiar's help - Saruman. He came to middleerth as a wise and experienced man. Even after his fall to Sauron power, he still looks like "master craftsmen" and he could fool even other istari.I know that there are plenty of symbols in whole Tolkien's work but I wouldn't implemet it in that way.


Everyone remember this, Sauron lost his ability in the Second Age to take a "Fair Form" he can still do this through illusion--which is what the Edain Team shows by him having red eyes and dressed in black as Gorthaur,  a giant ugly werewolf, a swarm of bats (not like the book where he was really big)--the only thing missing is his Snake Form. Would really love to see that form implemented.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Okt 2017, 02:21
Although the His Deadliest Servants spell portrays Nazgûl in a new fashion, armoured and not cloaked, I thought that this icon could be used for the central spell of Mordor; namely, the spell I mentioned at the beginning of the comment.

The image shows the first time when we're introduced to the wraiths in the trilogy and the scene itself is quite evocative. The Nine are sent to hunt down the One Ring and so they obey the most imperative of their master's biddings. They're truly Sauron's deadliest servants and most loyal slaves, if we may dare speak about loyalty for anything concerning the Dark Lord. The current picture would be still retained in the game, by each of the wraiths that must purchase his individual upgrade. It is just to refurbish the icon of the central spell a little bit, being that an iconic moment in the film. What do you think about it?

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/345559565343129600/371049127787888642/Deadliest_Servants.gif)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: NoldorSithLordsShipwright am 21. Okt 2017, 03:45
Given that the spell is about the Nazgul's unveiling, I think that the current icon with the armored Nazgul works well enough.

Then again, given that this is the first time we see them in the film (not counting the opening narration, which doesn't really count) the image you propose is also fitting.



Tangentially related: could the purchasing of this spell (or alternatively, having all Nine on the field) trigger the musical cue 'Revelation of the Ringwraiths'?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: dkbluewizard am 21. Okt 2017, 18:14
Although the His Deadliest Servants spell portrays Nazgûl in a new fashion, armoured and not cloaked, I thought that this icon could be used for the central spell of Mordor; namely, the spell I mentioned at the beginning of the comment.

The image shows the first time when we're introduced to the wraiths in the trilogy and the scene itself is quite evocative. The Nine are sent to hunt down the One Ring and so they obey the most imperative of their master's biddings. They're truly Sauron's deadliest servants and most loyal slaves, if we may dare speak about loyalty for anything concerning the Dark Lord. The current picture would be still retained in the game, by each of the wraiths that must purchase his individual upgrade. It is just to refurbish the icon of the central spell a little bit, being that an iconic moment in the film. What do you think about it?

(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/345559565343129600/371049127787888642/Deadliest_Servants.gif)

Meh, Tomatoe Toematoe
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Okt 2017, 01:06
Then again, given that this is the first time we see them in the film (not counting the opening narration, which doesn't really count) the image you propose is also fitting.

That's the prime reason of my suggestion. Being the central spell of the faction might suggest that a proper picture should be the final rendition. The linkage provided by the cinematographic motive would reinforce the visual potential of the icon. The current image won't be completely erased and will still stay in each hero's power set.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: solteszbenjamin@gmail.com am 13. Nov 2017, 00:11
My suggestions :
1, mordor need warg riders , because they have ( like in the movie )
2, Need a wall around mordor's castle like angmar (at start of the game avaible choose whitch type (like the dwarfs ) :)
3,some new orc captains in the heroes who's  there  ( minas thirith's siege  )
4, mordors avarage orck need to be replace with morgul or gorgoroth or dol goldur  or cirit  ungol orck ( it an update in the citadel the update's ty decide whitch type of units will be avaible like dwarfs ) 
5,mordor's archers like morgul or dol  gordul  need to be bigger range
6, in  the outposts menu ( strongholds need to be  replaced  some type of strong economic bulding like isengard ( some type of  big mine or mine network ) and another bulding where mordor can train easterling and etc )  ( raise the price of orcs )

in mordor was much larger mines than in isengard and much more resources and more potential to create some new dewasteting weapon or bigger economic bulding or weapon than isengard , because mordor armor much more orcs than isengard , mordo has almost unlimited resources , I read this in posts about Isengard vs Mordor !

I really like this mode , so I hope it could be better than ever !
I'm waiting 4.5  [uglybunti]

For this time that's all !
I hope we can talk soon,
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 13. Nov 2017, 01:15
All those varieties of Orcs just need their proper barracks. It's the only way to ensure a decent degree of differentiation in the game, alongside sticking to the canons, because it's clearly shown how the power of Sauron's realm was not confined only in the sole Mordor. Thus, having all sorts of troops available in the common barracks could really turn out to be a potential conceptual loss for the faction. An eventuality we should avoid.

As for walls, the customary logic reads that evil factions do not have the need of such a defence, for their features are supposed to be mainly aggressive and the Evil itself, lore-wise, did wage war to the whole world with a long-planned sudden strike (it was therefore the Good that had to defend itself and adopt defensive strategies, and not the opposite). In the main, that's the core logic. Angmar is an exception in itself and the very Mordor embodies perfectly the idea of an evil faction which may afford the luxury to renounce building walls.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: DaGeggo am 13. Nov 2017, 18:39
My suggestions :
1, mordor need warg riders
2, Need a wall around mordor's castle like angmar (at start of the game avaible choose whitch type (like the dwarfs ) :)
3,some new orc captains in the heroes who's  there  ( minas thirith's siege  )
4, mordors avarage orck need to be stronger and replace with morgul or gorgoroth or dol goldur  or cirit  ungol orck ( it an update in the citadel the update's ty decide whitch type of units  )
5,mordor's archers like morgul or dol  gordul or aarage orcs  need to be bigger range
6, in  the outposts menu ( strongholds need to be  replaced  some type of strong economic bulding like isengard ( some type of  big mine or mine network ) and another bulding where mordor can train easterling and etc )
1, Why would they need them? They've already got trolls instead.
2, What Walkküre said.
3, With a proper integration there could be some possibilities, where they could be interesting to play. But Mordor already has a lot of Hereos, drummer-trolls (or how they're called [ugly] and aslo overseers to buff orcs and stuff. I dont actually see a need of them.
4, This is more of a balancequestion. They are free, so i don't think they are too weak, also they got nerfed a lot for they were too strong before.
5, I don't know whether they have reuced range compard to other normal archers. I see the point why orcs might have less range and would appreciate that, but this again is a balancequestion.
6, The strong economy is a thing for Isengard, I've never heard/read of a lot of Mines or strong economy in Mordor, so why shuold you increase it? Also this would completely throw Mordor out of balance.
Zitat
in mordor was much larger mines than in isengard and much more resources and more potential to create some new dewasteting weapon or bigger economic bulding or weapon than isengard (shadow of war ) maybe !
Shadow of war is quite the least reliable source to inform yourself about Middleearth, since they stupidly invented a lot of stuff for some reason. This has little to do with Middleearth.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: solteszbenjamin@gmail.com am 13. Nov 2017, 19:36
Thx for the advice !

1, need warg rider, because mordor already have them , ( minash thirith siege ) , become more realistic
2,it was an idea
3,more orck captain will be made the game more "orc friend" and guarantee to mordor more heroes whitch add   his units more damage and defense bonus
4,avarage orcs replace with stronghold's orcks it depens of which type of update choose in the citadel like dwarfs ( 3 type cirit , minash , dol )
5,orc archers need to be a little  bit bigger range
6,outpost menu need an economic bulding grand refinery with lava or very big ironmine and a bulding ( allowe train harad and ruhn units ) 

If it's made unbalance the race I have some more advise to the other races , to make the game balanced !
I really like this forum ! I   ;)
I always play with this game , in turn my computer much stronger then it's require !
My english is not very good , as you see !

Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 13. Nov 2017, 20:51
I updated the post again!

It would be better if you actually made some attempts to counter other people's arguments or present new solutions, backed by a proper reasoning. Just updating your first post might not be sufficient to ensure a constructive debate: the original comment could be buried by multiple replies, if the conversation gets too wide, and the other participants could mistake the propriety of your choices, in case very little information were provided.

I suggest you be more explanatory in words, for the sake of the topic.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 15. Nov 2017, 18:39
Very good, that you have provided arguments backing your own reasoning. Don't you also forget that it's not necessary that every single post of yours be updated. You may simply reply to one's comments with other new comments. Updating post might turn out to be not so much feasible, at the end of the day, when discussions get wider and wider. You may also utilise other features of this forum, as quotations, should you feel the need to address someone in particular.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: solteszbenjamin@gmail.com am 15. Nov 2017, 23:50
These ideas are good or bad , and thx for the reply , what do you think about them ?
I have some suggest to the other factions too !
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 3. Feb 2019, 13:33
With the recent reveal of Galadriel's rework and Lorien's spellbook, I will suggest again that something similar be applied to casting Power of the Past Ages on Ring Hero Sauron/Gorthaur. At the moment, the use of a tier4 spell on either of those form causes minor lightning which knockbacks some of the troops if the enemy is close enough. In comparison, the use of a tier 3 spell on Galadriel grants either a powerful mobile statue/well or a destructive tornado.

I would love to see the ability Dark Swath return for those forms, it is one of the abilities I cherish most due to its interesting tradeoff and level up system. Of course it would have to be scaled to meet such a powerful spell, something like this, perhaps?...

Power of the Past Ages
[regular description here]

If the Necromancer has already achieved a physical form, this power will summon a dark swath from Tol In Gorauth over a large area which debuff all troops present, summons wights when Sauron reaches level 7 and can be moved when he is level 10
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Julio229 am 3. Feb 2019, 13:47

This seems like a quite interesting idea, and I also think the Power of the Past Ages spell should have an use beyond the transformation like the Galadriel spells do, so I am in support of this suggestion!
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: OakenShield224 am 3. Feb 2019, 13:52
Would it be the same effect whether it is Gorthaur or Ring hero Sauron?
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 3. Feb 2019, 14:43
I only had one idea so probably, but if somebody has a second idea that would fit well with either of them then it could have different effects
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Feb 2019, 16:01
I find your proposal fair and reasonable, despite my distance from dark arts. A smart mirroring of the Lady's mechanics, I have to say. At the end of the day, they are the only two characters capable of shedding their usual form and turning into terrifying juggernauts.

Don't forget there are other fair and reasonable suggestions in this forum... ;)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: OakenShield224 am 3. Feb 2019, 17:20
The idea does sound good so I'm in favour of it.

At the end of the day, they are the only two characters capable of shedding their usual form and turning into terrifying juggernauts.
I think you're forgetting Bilbo's face in Rivendell  [ugly]
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Tiberius Ogden am 7. Feb 2019, 13:48
It's another great recyclation of spell from the past, so you have my dafür. xD

I only had one idea so probably, but if somebody has a second idea that would fit well with either of them then it could have different effects

Yes, there should be definitely something different and visually more powerful for Lord Sauron. So two effects like Galadriel's variation.

Do we have any other spell for recycling from the past?
Or maybe some inspiration from the hero submod would also be fine.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 20. Jul 2019, 22:13
I don't know if this has already been suggested but i'd like to suggest one minor detail. It would be very nice if when you use the power "Banners of the Black Land" or "Call the horde" (pick one), an orc horn would be the sound effect. You know the one from Two Towers. It's a shame that such a clear sound is still not used.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 5. Aug 2019, 00:31
Zitat
I don't know if this has already been suggested but i'd like to suggest one minor detail. It would be very nice if when you use the power "Banners of the Black Land" or "Call the horde" (pick one), an orc horn would be the sound effect. You know the one from Two Towers. It's a shame that such a clear sound is still not used.

I haven't been active here in a long time but I just wanted to say I agree with this, it really is a shame that that horn isn't in the game!
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 5. Aug 2019, 14:38
Quite a mind-boggling dilemma, for sure. That's always been one of my favourite sounds as well, but I've never quite understood why it wasn't implemented in the game (it's not there, as far as I know), nor have I conceived that many thoughts around it either.

If it's possible to get that peculiar horn somehow included, I would gladly take the initiative and retrieve it in form of track :)
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 5. Aug 2019, 19:44
Quite a mind-boggling dilemma, for sure. That's always been one of my favourite sounds as well, but I've never quite understood why it wasn't implemented in the game (it's not there, as far as I know), nor have I conceived that many thoughts around it either.

If it's possible to get that peculiar horn somehow included, I would gladly take the initiative and retrieve it in form of track :)
I'm glad you like the suggestion. The sound itself has the potential to enhance the existing abilities Call the Horde and Banners of the Black land respectively.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 11. Aug 2019, 18:44
I'm curious why is Sauron's attack speed (with the Ring) so slow? What do you guys think about making him attack faster? It takes him a lot of time to deal decent damage, especially against units that need to be hit more than once, and it's kind of tedious to watch him lift his mace slowly and then swing...

It would make him a lot more powerful and dangerous, yes, but personally I'd rather give up one of his other qualities for faster attack speed, if balance is the issue. How do you guys feel about that?

P.S. I'm sure this has been asked before, but I can't find the answer, sorry.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Aug 2019, 19:10
I think the reason for the attack speed is rather to do with theme than balance. I imagine the original idea mainly comes from the movies, his slow attack was first implemented within the vanilla rotwk and simply carried over to edain as it seemed a valid interpretation of what Sauron’s warrior form would attack as.

For balance reasons (even if most don’t really apply to ring heroes) increasing his attack soeed would lile lead to lowering his attack damage to avoid him getting too strong. Ring hero sauron is mostly meant as a mass slayer and therefore heroes and high health units are the few things that do have a chance of defeating it. If you are dealing with a particularly resilient unit you can activate his dark will ability to temporarily buff both his movement and attack speed
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 15. Nov 2019, 15:43
Would it be possible to get the troll crew pushing the siege towers reskinned into mountain trolls and scaled slightly so they're both the same size? Right now the troll crew pushing the the siege tower are about half the size of normal trolls, they don't have to be exactly the same size but they could use a small scale up so they look a bit more similar.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Walküre am 15. Nov 2019, 18:21
If feasible, I would be glad to see those labouring trolls remade and tweaked for good. On a conceptual note, though, are we sure that Mordor may effectively utilise cave-trolls for its bidding? Aren't the cavernous variants of the beast exclusive to Goblins only?

Anyhow, a bit of resizing will do, unless it doesn't disrupt everything.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 12. Sep 2020, 18:33
Concept: Give the Black Riders a small armor buff against arrow fire (PIERCE, CAVALRY_RANGED, HERO_RANGED, STRUCTURAL) once "His Deadlist Servants" is purchased.

It would be a simple change that would improve the Black Riders and also allow them to benefit from a spell from which they already should, conceptually, be benefitting from. The visual change could be as simple as some shoulder pads and additional armor on horses. Could also add some runes.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Seleukos I. am 12. Sep 2020, 18:47
I like the suggestion. Right now the black riders aren't used that much, and when they are used they are only good in the eg and mg, so giving them some additional armour vs arrows later on sounds good. And since it's only a buff vs archers it won't make them too good in the lg either.

Best regards,
Seleukos
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: Halbarad am 12. Sep 2020, 21:41
Also sounds nice to me, I'm in favour.
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: tolgayurdal am 13. Sep 2020, 18:51
Not a bad idea. +1
Titel: Re: Brief Mordor Suggestions
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 15. Mär 2021, 23:09
The ring hunter upgrade states "and sense the presence of the One ring", however, the SpecialEnemySenseUpdate module doesn't seem to be connected with any Lua functions and as such has no effect as far as I can tell.

Could it be possible to have an ability activate when Gollum is detected that clears stealth in a large area? This ability would have something like a 30 seconds cooldown. Since this would only trigger when  the ring is enabled it shouldn't be much of a problem balance wise