Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Imladris Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: AmosVogel am 13. Mai 2015, 06:46

Titel: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: AmosVogel am 13. Mai 2015, 06:46
At moddb there is a fellow fan named TheToadSageJiraiya and said something reffering to Imladris ring heroe: <it would make more sense than to use elrond as a ring hero>

So, we all know that Lord Elrond always hated the One:

'All movie versions'

-The last alliance: -Isildur!!!! Destroy it!!!-
-The Hobbit: -He must be hunted down and destroyed once and for all- (he was not reffering to the One, but anyway ^^
-The Lord of the Rings: -You have only one choice. The Ring must be destroyed-

The lore is the lore, but we all want to see 'What if' situations, personally i love to see him as a new High King of the Noldor, but if we all follow the lore he would never ever take the ring for himself, nor even touch it.

So lets think, who are those characters that were in rivendel and desired the one?

*Galadriel? - But she is the main heroe of Lothlórien, so... NOT
*Saruman? - Its not The hobbit time, so theres no Saruman at Rivendell -also main heroe-, so... NOT
*Gandalf? - The same as before, so... NOT
*Cirdan? - a former ring bearer, so... NOT
*Lindir? - WTF!! really!!, of course NOT < Ha! nice joke man!! hahaha

So, theres no heroe suitable besides Lord Elrond, thats why he must stay! Here i write two alternatives to the ring mechanic:

Lets be honest, Rivendell is the only faction that wants to destroy the One, so why not take it to the fortress or the library or the forge & hide it -unitl the building is destroyed-
to the eyes of the enemy.

Or take it to the fortress & automatically appears a mini-horde named 'the fellowship of the ring' ^^ carrying the One & running away from the map (the same mechanic of the mordor or gondor allies but viceversa, instead of arriving, leaving the map), the thing is that mini-horde would not be formed of the heroes we all know, but of ordinary people: a hobbit, a ranger, a man, a dwarf & an elf. So every faction could be able to kill them, without any restriction to see Aragorn killing the Frodo for the ring ^^

That mini-horde would be visible for everyone, also not controllable for the imladris player & may run to the farthest corner to dissapear forever of that game ^^ But of course, it could be killed by a small armored army or several heroes.

At the end we will have a 'What if' Ring-Elrond & in the other hand, the following of the lore :)

Hope you like it!
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Adamin am 13. Mai 2015, 08:31
Good ideas. We also thought about something similar already.

Though while it is true that Elrond never actually expressed any interest in using the Ring, you could say that every good Ring Hero is a "What if"-Character. Galadriel maybe openly desired the Ring, but in the end declined. Gandalf rejected it from the get go, although assuming that he could do many good things with it (at the beginning).
So saying that these people could take the Ring is not as far away from saying Elrond could do so as well, even if it's not as obvious. He's certainly powerful enough.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: AmosVogel am 6. Jun 2015, 22:19
Ohhh Mr Adamin!!! Its a pleasure to share the ideas!!!! Thanks!!
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: BuddhaCAT am 21. Jun 2015, 18:10
I agree with Adamin. The concept of a Ring-hero is highly speculative and is only in the game to make it more interesting. For the different factions there are different, more or less, suitable heros who may carry The One. The only thing that this changes is the characters powers and general power on the battlefield. Therefore I find it most interesting to have a new "Ring-concept" for Rivendell.

Yes it is true that Elrond is a person who is not "fond" of the ring, even though he would be able to wield it and possibly become much closer to his own elvish ring Viliya. I find him a good ring-hero as he is now, but let´s talk about a new concept.

The Rivendell elves, with Elrond as their leader, are not so likely to "use" The One as a acctual weapon. As is discussed at The council of Elrond, many suggestions are given to what to do with the ring. Some are linked to Tom Bombadill (ME:s own trollface) and others to a direct destruction of the ring. One however is rather unique and, in my opinion, suitable for the Noldor elves, that is: To send the ring over sea to the West.

In game-terms this would mean that after Imladris have captured the one Ring, they would (loudly thinking) take it to the citadel/fortress and then be able to "buy" a power saying "The Ring goes west" after that power is bought the ring disappears and cannot be used that game. Imladris as a faciton should get something "in reward" for sending the ring west, possibly some kind of power or training ability. This is just a concept.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: BuddhaCAT am 21. Jun 2015, 18:14
Why the "fellowship idea", according to me, is rather odd is because it does´nt seem to give Imladris any powers or good-things from getting the ring, Imladris get the ring and then they send it away with some fellowship that can be killed rather easily by the other factions. The only thing you do is to create a new Gollum.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: ziqing am 21. Jun 2015, 19:33
The strider version of aragorn or Glorfindel will do
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 22. Jun 2015, 12:09
I agree with Adamin. The concept of a Ring-hero is highly speculative and is only in the game to make it more interesting. For the different factions there are different, more or less, suitable heros who may carry The One. The only thing that this changes is the characters powers and general power on the battlefield. Therefore I find it most interesting to have a new "Ring-concept" for Rivendell.

Yes it is true that Elrond is a person who is not "fond" of the ring, even though he would be able to wield it and possibly become much closer to his own elvish ring Viliya. I find him a good ring-hero as he is now, but let´s talk about a new concept.

The Rivendell elves, with Elrond as their leader, are not so likely to "use" The One as a acctual weapon. As is discussed at The council of Elrond, many suggestions are given to what to do with the ring. Some are linked to Tom Bombadill (ME:s own trollface) and others to a direct destruction of the ring. One however is rather unique and, in my opinion, suitable for the Noldor elves, that is: To send the ring over sea to the West.

In game-terms this would mean that after Imladris have captured the one Ring, they would (loudly thinking) take it to the citadel/fortress and then be able to "buy" a power saying "The Ring goes west" after that power is bought the ring disappears and cannot be used that game. Imladris as a faciton should get something "in reward" for sending the ring west, possibly some kind of power or training ability. This is just a concept.
well the logic is rather interesting, but i think it's actually impossible to completely delete the ring from the game (technically impossible). Not to mention that would kind of be disappointing for all the players; other factions get cool awesome heroes, and Imladres just "remove" the ring?
I understand that to to balance it, there would be some really powerful buff, but in all factions the enemy can counter your Ring user (hero or whatever) and take the ring for himself. How the enemy would counter the bonus that Imladris get?
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Fine am 22. Jun 2015, 12:51
Imladris has quite a unique and cool concept for their ring hero in 4.0; I encourage you to wait until Imladris is released and check it out :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 22. Jun 2015, 22:16
One however is rather unique and, in my opinion, suitable for the Noldor elves, that is: To send the ring over sea to the West.




I don't remember precisely the exact words of Tolkien, but Elrond decides to avoid this choice anyway, judging it negative as all the other alternative ones.
Elrond knows in his wisdom that beyond the Sea the Elves of Eressëa and Eldamar would have rightly rejected the One Ring, as a burden that they would have not had the duty to bear; not to mention that the people of Valinor would have probably rejected it with more perseverance, denying the entrance of a such powerful and evil object in the Land of the Valar.
And the Valar would have never sent anyone or anything as a gift for Elves and Men if they had sent the One Ring beyond the Sea, for they decided not to get involved anymore in the events of the World after the War of Wrath and the betrayal of Númenor, when, by the way, the Undying Lands were completely removed from Arda; any kind of reward for something like this is thus very unlikely  :)

I still support Elrond with the One Ring, he might be able to control its power, at least only in the fictional system of the game  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Palpou am 26. Jun 2015, 22:55
Imladris could use the Ring to periodically call Celebrimbor, this elvish hero that could convert orcs to create an army with blue eyes !


(http://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/wow.gamepedia.com/thumb/e/e3/Wrath_of_the_Lich_King_Box_Art.jpg/600px-Wrath_of_the_Lich_King_Box_Art.jpg?version=1bd271bb01cefc43a84e24ff610dc7f5)
Euh.. not this one !

(http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Middle-earth-Shadow-of-Mordor-1-1280x720.jpg)

(joke)
Hard to make other propositions. But impatient to see how Imladris will look like in 4.0 !
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 26. Jun 2015, 23:29
The first one is actually in the mod.
try to find it  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 28. Jun 2015, 15:33





Hard to make other propositions. But impatient to see how Imladris will look like in 4.0 !

Hard indeed to make other propositions other than Elrond carrying the One Ring for the sake of Middle Earth.

You are right to be impatient, I'm sure that Imladris will be flawless and wonderful, as all the Noldor are  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: King-Thranduil am 10. Jul 2015, 17:11
Some suggestions:
Manwe
Celebrimbor
Gil-Galad
Eärendil


That's all i could've think of  :D :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: CynasFan am 10. Jul 2015, 17:30
Why should dead Elves be revived by the one ring?
And with which grounds or system?
Greetings, CynasFan
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: King-Thranduil am 10. Jul 2015, 17:32
Then why should LONG-DEAD Durin be revived by the one ring?
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: CynasFan am 10. Jul 2015, 18:23
Durin is mortal, but he gets revived by his sons named also Durin, because they all was like the first one. So the dwarfes thougt, Durin is immortal and Aule brings him back every time, to receive the spirit of the dwarfes.
Elves are immortal, if they go to the West, but they can´t receive.
I hope you can unterstand this and that´s also the ground, how the Edain team argues.
Greetings from Germany, CynasFan
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Maraelion am 10. Jul 2015, 18:23
Then why should LONG-DEAD Durin be revived by the one ring?

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Durin

Durin is a dwarven reincarnation legend. So Edain just implemented this myth, which is quite lorewise.
Reviving an dead elf isn't lore wise at all, because there are no hints for a revived elf in Middle-Earth.
Greetings
Maraelion
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 11. Jul 2015, 01:07
Because Durin is DEATHLESS, or so do the Dwarves believe.
Basically each King Durin is actually the same Durin reincarnated. So it isn't that far fetched to imagine Durin returning to his people.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 11. Jul 2015, 23:17
Some suggestions:
Manwe
Celebrimbor
Gil-Galad
Eärendil


That's all i could've think of  :D :D

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the lore is very clear and 'nuclear' about proposals like yours.

Celebrimbor and Gil-galad have been dead for more than 3000 years by the time of the War of the Ring, and are thus either still mourning in the Halls of Mandos as spirits, or reborn in Valinor as Blessed Elves; they are anyway in Aman, and thus are bound to remain in this continent forever, as the 'supreme rule' of the World for the Elves ineluctably implies, and can't then be revived or return to Middle Earth (the spell 'The Last Alliance' only summons Gil-galad temporarily, and it is a tribute/reconstruction of the Second Age).
Anyone who reaches Aman, both due to Death (Halls of Mandos) or Return (Grey Havens), can't leave this land and return to Arda (apart from very few exceptions).

Eärendil is of course alive, as an immortal elf, but was ordered by the Valar to guard forever the Skyes of Arda and Aman with his Enchanted Ship, and thus can't go back to Middle Earth.

Manwë, eventually, is the most unlikely scenario, for very important and solid reasons.

- He is the King of the Valar and the King of the whole World, and he could virtually do and dispose anything he wants due to his absolute authority; but the Valar chose not to get directly involved anymore in the problems of Middle Earth, after the destructive (but victorious) War of Wrath, and chose not to personally fight anymore in any battle even before the First Age, since they sent an army of Vanyar and the Maia Eönwë in Beleriand.
The powers of the Valar is holy and good, but still destructive in war; if any of them fought in Middle Earth during the Third Age, it would cause a complete cataclysm.

- How in the world an evil and inferior (for a point of view of a Vala) object, as it is the One Ring, should summon Manwë (the Supreme Authority in the World), or even be worn by him?  :o

- Manwë is a Vala, is not an Elf.
He is the leader of both Arda and Aman, but he truly 'belongs' to Valinor, the Blessed Realm in which live mostly Vanyar and Maiar; Imladris (Noldor) is, on the other way, related and 'belongs' to Eldamar (specifically Tirion), which is still a Land/Realm of Aman, but it is not Valinor.
I know that the difference would appear to be slight, but it is important.

Then, given these facts, the only 'reasonable' solution by far is still Elrond with the One Ring.

Hope to have been useful  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 08:08
Eärendil is of course alive
Of course that he is, yesterday was online.

but was ordered by the Valar to guard forever the Skyes of Arda and Aman with his Enchanted Ship, and thus can't go back to Middle Earth.
Yes, it's nice, but primarily he is leader of the Edain team ... by the way ...

Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gnomi am 12. Jul 2015, 15:23
@ Tiberius:
Our leader is "Ealendril", not "Earendil"

There is a small difference, our boss has a "lendr" in the middle, but the character in the silmarillion has a "rend" in the middle. :P
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 15:38
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Jul 2015, 19:20
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P

Did you seriously think that you could have confused me with an easy and cheap trick like that, being in my natural element (Valinor/Elves of Aman/First Age)?  :D
And 'my' Galadriel is not dark, but Sublime, one of the most dreadful, and yet immensely beautiful, thing that you could encounter in the World  8-)

@ Tiberius:
Our leader is "Ealendril", not "Earendil"

There is a small difference, our boss has a "lendr" in the middle, but the character in the silmarillion has a "rend" in the middle. :P

Actually you (both of you) are wrong my darlings  :)
It's 'Eärendil', not 'Earendil'.
You shouldn't so carelessly miss any 'ä', 'ë', 'á' or 'ó', when you talk about any Ainurin or Elven Matters  :P

So, to summarise a bit:

DieWalküre 1
TiberiusOgden 0
Gnomi 0

 ;)

Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 12. Jul 2015, 19:29
We know, but we have other things to do around here, so we are trying to write sparingly. Sometimes. 8-| :P
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Ealendril am 14. Jul 2015, 10:25
My light Galadriel is only trying to confuse "dark galadriel"  xD
I know about the difference, but honestly - I sometimes have tendency to write "Earendil" (and many moddb users, as I found, as well) ... so I've solved this problem some time ago that I simply write "Ea"  8-| ... when I am talking generally about him. :P
Ea is definitly ok for me.  xD
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 14. Jul 2015, 10:42
Ea is definitly ok for me.  xD
Well, I always thought that Ea is quite a modest creator. :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 14:08
Soooo... maybe Elros? Elrond's twin brother which choosed life of mortal? I't could be cool, it can be done throught statue like Durin. And i know, it wouldn't be lore appropriate, but c'mon... (PS. Celebrimbor will be fine too, he could be sent back like Glorfindel.)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 15:35
Soooo... maybe Elros? Elrond's twin brother which choosed life of mortal? I't could be cool, it can be done throught statue like Durin. And i know, it wouldn't be lore appropriate, but c'mon... (PS. Celebrimbor will be fine too, he could be sent back like Glorfindel.)

Elros, as you rightly wrote, chose to follow the path of the Humans, and eventually died at almost the age of 500 years.
As you may know, once the Humans die, their souls go to the Halls of Mandos, and suddenly disappear from the World, headed to the Timeless Halls of Ilúvatar.
Elros thus can't go back in any way in the World  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Linhir am 1. Aug 2015, 15:38
Unexplored are the ways of Eru. He could send back anyone who he wants.  xD
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 1. Aug 2015, 15:57
Unexplored are the ways of Eru. He could send back anyone who he wants.  xD

No, it wisely doesn't intervene in the physical Universe's matters, because it has delegated these powers to the Valar, the Archangels of the World; and they decided not to intervene in the World's matters as well, after the War of Wrath  :)
We have to wait the End of the World and the Ultimate Battle, before seeing Eru in action again  8-)

P.S. I used 'it' because Eru is the only sentient being with no gender, since it is Everything  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 2. Aug 2015, 09:42
i kinda like the  Elros idea
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 2. Aug 2015, 09:49
User DieWalküre has provided explanation - Elros is dead. Quite a long time. It's not possible.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 2. Aug 2015, 10:17
well durin is dead too but he has no prob coming back to life  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 2. Aug 2015, 10:22
Durin is mortal, but he gets revived by his sons named also Durin, because they all was like the first one. So the dwarfes thougt, Durin is immortal and Aule brings him back every time, to receive the spirit of the dwarfes.
User CynasFan explained it, too. Durin is like Dalai Lama for Dwarves.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 2. Aug 2015, 10:29
my head hurts  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 3. Aug 2015, 19:37
Gil-galad! He was strong enough to fight Sauron himself so I think he's an ideal choice! So what if he's dead, this could be a "what-if Gil-galad survived?" Or perhaps he is sent back by the Valar (like Glorfindel) to deal with the Ring because of his experience with Sauron personally?

I will admit though, I am extremely biased. Gil-galad is my favorite Tolkien character, even more so than Saruman!  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 20:09
i like the sent back like glofinder idea. but gil galad didnt fight sauron alone he did it with elendil and they both died by sauron
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Aug 2015, 20:39
Gil-galad! He was strong enough to fight Sauron himself so I think he's an ideal choice! So what if he's dead, this could be a "what-if Gil-galad survived?" Or perhaps he is sent back by the Valar (like Glorfindel) to deal with the Ring because of his experience with Sauron personally?

I will admit though, I am extremely biased. Gil-galad is my favorite Tolkien character, even more so than Saruman!  :D

Gil-galad is already well implemented in the Last Alliance spell, a great reference to the Second Age.

After Gil-galad was killed by Sauron, his soul departed from the World and arrived in the Halls of Mandos in Aman.
We thus don't know if he is still mourning there, or if he was reborn in Valinor; I believe that he was granted the rebirth in Valinor for his epic deeds, but, in both cases, he can't leave Aman, as everyone else who lives or was reborn in the Undying Lands.
Glorfindel is the only exception  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 20:50
i like to see a what if  xD
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Aug 2015, 21:10
i like to see a what if  xD

But it wouldn't be possible either way  :)
The One Ring can't totally bring back from Valinor any Elven Soul or living Elf.

Durin is a totally different matter, since Reincarnation is a characteristic of the Dwarves' nature.

No one can leave Aman  8-)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 21:14
glofinder returned so a what if gil galad return  ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 3. Aug 2015, 21:17
glofinder returned so a what if gil galad return  ;)

But this is something far beyond the powers of the One Ring.
Gil-galad is already present via the Last Alliance spell, I think that there is no other need of trying to implement this character  :)
Glorfindel was the only exception, and there was no Ring involved in his return.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 21:24
i know he killed a faking balrog i think he deserve s it  xD xD and you are right but still i wanna play as gil galad  :( :( :( snif snif (tears everywhere)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: CragLord am 3. Aug 2015, 21:33
Content of those comments (and rest of similar) simply left me speechless ... 
I think that content of comments is important, not number of posted ...
Simply think about quality of disscusion, that is most important thing on forums I guess.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 3. Aug 2015, 21:35
well it was a joke i think its prety clear that this is a joke
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: CragLord am 3. Aug 2015, 21:57
Sorry if this offended you...
This may not be up to me to say but simply think about that.

Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 4. Aug 2015, 00:10
i like to see a what if  xD

But it wouldn't be possible either way  :)
The One Ring can't totally bring back from Valinor any Elven Soul or living Elf.

Durin is a totally different matter, since Reincarnation is a characteristic of the Dwarves' nature.

No one can leave Aman  8-)
The One Ring would be the reason he is brought back, Eru or the Valar (whoever sent Glorfindel) would be the one(s) to actually send Gil-galad back, which could have happened.   :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 4. Aug 2015, 00:34
i like this idea mate
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 4. Aug 2015, 01:53

The One Ring would be the reason he is brought back, Eru or the Valar (whoever sent Glorfindel) would be the one(s) to actually send Gil-galad back, which could have happened.   :)

No, actually  :)

Every 'what if' situation of all the other factions is based essentially on 'real' possibilities, though very strange and improbable.
Because Gandalf, Théoden, Saruman (and the other ring heroes) really had the possibility (even if it was really slight) to achieve the One Ring.

The Valar, after the War of Wrath, decided not to intervene anymore in the World, fearing other possible destructions.
They, then, 'only' sent the Wizards to guide the Free People of Middle Earth and Glorfindel, as a really unexpected exception, because every Elf who lives or was reborn in Valinor can't return to Middle Earth; this is an absolute rule of Valinor, there is thus no possibility or any space for 'what if' situations in the first place.
Not to mention that we don't know if Gil-galad was actually ever reborn in Valinor or he is still mourning in the Halls of Mandos as a spirit.

Gil-galad has his reasons in being implemented through the Last Alliance spell, along with his allies of Arnor and Gondor; this is an unique and characteristic spell of Rivendell that refers to the Second Age.
The One Ring can't bring anyone back from Valinor, since the power of the Valar is far beyond it.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 4. Aug 2015, 03:30
well i wanna see gil galad as a playable hero. but still i agree with you
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: hoho96 am 4. Aug 2015, 10:39
Well you can always put him in from World Builder in a scenario you like xD
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Linhir am 4. Aug 2015, 11:58
So... not Gil-galad, not Elros, not Celebrimbor... maybe Glorfindel? I think he is better option than Elrond. He slayed Gothmog and back to middle-earth after death. I think that he got strong enough will to not be possessed by ring, at least not too fast.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 4. Aug 2015, 12:40
i think he should be a ring hero too
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 4. Aug 2015, 15:14
So... not Gil-galad, not Elros, not Celebrimbor... maybe Glorfindel? I think he is better option than Elrond. He slayed Gothmog and back to middle-earth after death. I think that he got strong enough will to not be possessed by ring, at least not too fast.

I'm sorry that I constantly have to break your eggs  :P
But the point is that the idea of taking and using the One Ring is overall problematic for Rivendell, because no one of its heroes could do it or, much better, might want to do it.

Glorfindel is a High Elf from Valinor, probably a Vanya, who was also reborn in the Blessed Realm after his epic deeds in the War of the Jewels; the Valar, then, sent him back to Middle Earth (as the only exception among the Elves, probably at his specific request) to help Elrond and all the Free People of the World against the threat of Sauron.
But his nature is mainly focused on advising and guiding, rather than directly searching the Power and using it, not even if he's moved by good intentions; neither Elrond nor Glorfindel have ever had any interest or thought of using the One Ring, and the Blessed Nature of the latter repulses even more the idea.

Fine previously wrote that the solution of Rivendell and the One Ring will be very interesting; so the only possible and definitive answer is: waiting  :)

Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Linhir am 4. Aug 2015, 18:40
My "eggs" are still uncrushed, Your tries are weak.  xD
And I understand it all, I'm just making here the "if's" like if "if Glorfindel will get one ring", "if Gil-galad will be ressurected" etc. ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 4. Aug 2015, 18:54
What about wait for Imladris release? xD
By the way Glorfindel was ring hero in the previous version and reasons, why he is gone, explained user DieWalkure above.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 23. Aug 2015, 19:04

The One Ring would be the reason he is brought back, Eru or the Valar (whoever sent Glorfindel) would be the one(s) to actually send Gil-galad back, which could have happened.   :)

No, actually  :)

Every 'what if' situation of all the other factions is based essentially on 'real' possibilities, though very strange and improbable.
Because Gandalf, Théoden, Saruman (and the other ring heroes) really had the possibility (even if it was really slight) to achieve the One Ring.

The Valar, after the War of Wrath, decided not to intervene anymore in the World, fearing other possible destructions.
They, then, 'only' sent the Wizards to guide the Free People of Middle Earth and Glorfindel, as a really unexpected exception, because every Elf who lives or was reborn in Valinor can't return to Middle Earth; this is an absolute rule of Valinor, there is thus no possibility or any space for 'what if' situations in the first place.
Not to mention that we don't know if Gil-galad was actually ever reborn in Valinor or he is still mourning in the Halls of Mandos as a spirit.

Gil-galad has his reasons in being implemented through the Last Alliance spell, along with his allies of Arnor and Gondor; this is an unique and characteristic spell of Rivendell that refers to the Second Age.
The One Ring can't bring anyone back from Valinor, since the power of the Valar is far beyond it.

Thank you for your explanation. It makes a lot of sense.  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Aug 2015, 19:14
Thank you for your explanation. It makes a lot of sense.  :)


You're welcome  :)

Even if Gil-galad (your favourite hero, I assume) won't be the Ring Hero of Rivendell, he will still be playable via the Last Alliance spell, a more appropriate and honourable place for him, I guess.
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Hero
Beitrag von: VectorMaximus am 27. Jan 2016, 03:11
My personal vote goes for Celebrimbor. While the Shadow of Mordor game is not canonical obviously, and the fact that Celebrimbor is a spirit barred from the undying lands more so; Sauron would not have the might, nor the Valar reason to bar him, since his only sin was being deceived, something Sauron has done to plenty of people over the years(can anyone say Numenor?), at least he had good intentions in his failings, and he did save the 3. The game doesn't detract from the lore that much though, and for game enjoyment and balance I believe it's okay to bend the lore to an extent(as in this case). Also, it seems to me that there is no person in the Rivendell faction as is that would wield the One, whereas in both the base SOM game and the Silver Lord expansion Celebrimbor is shown to be able to wield the One with startling power and skill, and desires it to an extent. The One ring could allow the Rivendell faction at the fortress to perform a variant of the ritual that summons him in the game, but without the blood sacrifice. Also we could have epic quotes from the game!

Sending it the west is not possible for the above reasons described. While the fellowship idea has some merit, I feel it is not fair to the Imladris player to not have a ring-hero (perhaps if the fellowship were to succeed you would get all their members as permanent heroes? Maybe too OP).

...or we could give it to Gildor. See how that works out. :D
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Jan 2016, 14:44
As you can see, I already gave my opinion about Celebrimbor, as absolutely not suitable to be a Ring Hero.
I personally think that his soul finally managed to reach Aman, though it is not clear if he could be ever forgiven and granted again the ownership of his own physical body, out from the Halls of Mandos  :)
Also, I believe it would be a bit degrading if Celebrimbor were brought back to life by the very evil tool that caused terrible sorrows to the Elves.

Rivendell will definitely have its own Ring's mechanics; just, I think it will be something beyond the 'common logic' of powerful Ring Heroes  ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: VectorMaximus am 27. Jan 2016, 15:41
Perhaps if you captured the one ring as Imladris, you could take it to the forge and have the Noldorin Forge-masters discover its secrets, slowly increasing the strength of either your heroes or units over time as they uncover more secrets of it. Eventually, after a time the smiths would learn enough to unmake it (IE, no more bonuses). It's said that a powerful smith on par with Sauron (such as Feanor) would have been able to unmake the ring, but all such smiths in the 3rd age live in Valinor. The techniques of the rings themselves aren't evil - the will of Sauron in them is, because the same techniques made the 3. And the 3 are some of the most powerful tools of the Elves in the 3rd age, with no sign of corruption to their wearers.

But as has been said, I personally believe the Rivendell faction needs a major bonus to their faction in general when they get the one, otherwise they lose out on the power spike other factions get from their ring-hero. That's if they don't have a ring-hero, obviously.

And before I'm corrected, I'm well aware that even a team of master-smiths in the 3rd age couldn't unmake the one as I am suggesting. I'm just throwing out ideas (and as I said earlier, while generally speaking the lore should be adhered to, in some cases its okay to bend it for gameplay purposes).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Jan 2016, 16:21
Yes, it's necessarily needed bending a bit the lore to fit the primary gameplay rules.
Nevertheless, it's also true that you have to find valuable lore premises to move around 'what if' situations of this kind; something that could have happened in lore (though never really happened in the canon, of course) without contradicting it, as a sort of pure speculation.

For example, you realised yourself that your proposal about blacksmiths couldn't be taken into consideration, because Tolkien himself assures us that no one of the same skills and knowledge of Fëanor will ever walk on Arda again.

The 'core issue' behind this whole suggestion is basically the really contradictory conflict between the nature/essence of Rivendell and the very will of using the One Ring.
Any speculation would thus be too much problematic, more than the other factions' Ring's mechanics.
So, yes, I'm sure that waiting will be eventually rewarded.

If you want to continue the discussion and gather further thoughts, you are obviously more than welcome  :)
I will be happy to 'correct' you, then, if it's necessary  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Linhir am 16. Feb 2016, 03:31
Maybe ring hero could be just good ol' Tom? Elrond can't find any suitable man to give him ring and send with mission to destroy, so he decide hide it. In secret he send for Tom Bombadil and passes ring to him.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Feb 2016, 07:50
Maybe ring hero could be just good ol' Tom? Elrond can't find any suitable man to give him ring and send with mission to destroy, so he decide hide it. In secret he send for Tom Bombadil and passes ring to him.


Not only does the One Ring have no effect on Tom Bombadil, but also, given that I personally consider him a Maia (and other people something even more powerful), it wouldn't expand his powers anyway.

As Gandalf says during the Council of Elrond, Tom Bombadil is not a trustworthy person for this task, for he might just lose or simply forget the One Ring by accident  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saeros am 16. Feb 2016, 10:55
What if Cirdan wants the ring?
He gave his ring Narya to Gandalf as he thought that the wizard would keep it better than he would, but as the years pass the power of the Gray Havens is decreasing, so he starts making plans on how he could ask Narya back, but the chance appears to lay his hands in an even more powerful relic that whould allow his lands to flourish and rise above the mediocrity that is tormenting the Elves of the Third Age.
So he proposes to take the One for safe keeping but by holding it his soul becomes more and more corrupted and thus after a small amount of (game) time he becomes Cirdan the Shadow Elf (or something like that) and has new powers that while they give certain buffs to the units and buildings around him, at the same time they have a drawback.
Also his fighting skills are improved by far, but he looses armor or HP.

I must propose Glorfindel as the ring- hero too, but I suppose Cirdan is more suitable since he has never been in Valinor, he gave his ring willingly but with all the "ifs" I read above i suppose that this small story I wrote could happen taking under consideration the power of the One Ring and its ability to dominate even on the purest of souls.

Also I understand that this idea came a little too late probably but I wanted to make this proposal, lastly I never played the mod before the BFME1 building system was introduced (mainly because I thought BFME2 was an ultimate disappointment), so I don't know the heroes and the gameplay of Imladris, so I don't know if Cirdan is in the faction but I think that he should be as he was Gil- Galad's lieutenant and if I'm  not mistaken Lindon was Noldor lands..
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Feb 2016, 11:52
I must propose Glorfindel as the ring- hero too, but I suppose Cirdan is more suitable since he has never been in Valinor, he gave his ring willingly but with all the "ifs" I read above i suppose that this small story I wrote could happen taking under consideration the power of the One Ring and its ability to dominate even on the purest of souls.


As far as I read and wrote so far, I would say that all those hypothetical situations were nonetheless characterised by a solid lore background, that makes all of them possible and not contradictory (not on a general level, at least)  :)

If you read the previous comments, you will see that I tried to give the proper explanation about why Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero, and why I think it won't be so in the game.
Regarding Círdan, his usage of the One Ring would be too much contradictory, given that he doesn't have any ambitious desire of power if not guarding the Havens and guiding the few Eldar that still lingered in Middle Earth towards their final journey to the West.

Furthermore, it's highly unlikely, if not impossible, that the One Ring would have permitted the eternal endurance of the Eldar's realms; the One Ring's nature grants its bearer sensational powers, but at the cost of a gradual consumption and corruption of both mind and body (and, healing and preserving powers could never be part of its essence anyway).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Spacetyrant93 am 16. Feb 2016, 13:28
Well, whatever concept the Team decided to follow for the Ring in Imladris, I'm sure it'll be interesting :) even though the anticipation's killing me...

However, I do hope Elrond is kept as an alternative. I must admit I really liked him with the Ring, and he looks damn spectacular as a High King!
Yeah, perhaps not too lore-ish, but as others have repeated the speculativeness of Ring Heroes over and over again, I believe Elrond would be as good as any other. Some make even less sense than him, lore-wise (Theoden never even saw the Ring), so I hope he can be kept, at least as an alternative :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saeros am 16. Feb 2016, 15:45
@ DieWalküre
Zitat
If you read the previous comments, you will see that I tried to give the proper explanation about why Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero, and why I think it won't be so in the game.
I've read them all and that is why I came up with Cirdan as the ring- hero, obviously what you have said is correct but as you said
Zitat
neither Elrond nor Glorfindel have ever had any interest or thought of using the One Ring
so there could be Glorfindel as a ring- hero based on the same logic that Elrond is such.

Zitat
Regarding Círdan, his usage of the One Ring would be too much contradictory, given that he doesn't have any ambitious desire of power if not guarding the Havens and guiding the few Eldar that still lingered in Middle Earth towards their final journey to the West.
That is obvious but I tried to give a higly unlikely but plausible explanation about him wanting the One Ring.

For all the rest you posted you are once more correct since we all know by now (after all these times we're read the books and saw the movies) what the ring is capable of, but as you said
Zitat
the One Ring's nature grants its bearer sensational powers, but at the cost of a gradual consumption and corruption of both mind and body
that is why I proposed the drawbacks of Cirdan's powers given by the One Ring.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Linhir am 16. Feb 2016, 15:58
Cirdan/Glorfindel/Elrond as a ring heroes? Nah. Why? Because just one, small, simple fact about them... theyr'e too noble. They would die first, than let one ring to slowly corrupt them.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 16. Feb 2016, 18:08
Saeros, what I wanted to say is that I and the other people involved tried to 'respect' those not specified rules/guidelines within certain lore boundaries, in order to have a rational continuity in this debate  :)

Actually, the argument is not valid.
Considering our reasoning, so far, Glorfindel couldn't be a Ring Hero because Elrond himself has high chances (high probabilities) of not being the Ring Hero of Imladris anymore.
This is what the thread is about: discussing about alternatives  ;)

Narya is the only one of the Three Rings that doesn't have a physical effect/influence on the environment in which is kept – taking into consideration the examples of the holy and timeless sanctuaries of Rivendell and Lothlórien – so that it wouldn't be logical suggesting that the One Ring could ever grant this prerogative to Círdan.
Narya never made the Havens an enchanted place.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: sr_dark am 22. Feb 2016, 01:11
Whatever decision the team goes for... I hope its not something like Angmar in good version... it wouldnt be unique and i think its more interesting (and unique since the ring heroes are all different in many ways) to see a new character in the field, or an improved character (aka ring hero).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saeros am 22. Feb 2016, 10:13
Rivendell’s Ring Function

Hello fellow Edain,
I gave some thought about the ring function of Rivendell and I came up with the idea that is presented below.

At the beginning of the game, along with the citadel there will be constructed right behind it a building, which won’t be attackable or destroyable until the ring enters it, and will be named “The Elrond’s Council”.
When the ring enters this building Elrond’s voice will be heard saying “bring forth the ring” and then the council will take place, so the player will be given two choices:

Expose the Ring’s Secrets:

If this is chosen there will be four upgrades each giving certain offensive strengths and certain defensive weaknesses to the faction.

The Dark Lord’s Malice: All leadership bonuses (by any source) outside of the fortress are nullified.

War Production: The production buildings of the fortress are more vulnerable to attacks but all their upgrades (pantry, defensive measures and production increase) are improved by 25%.

Ring’s Corruption: All heroes are faster and have their attack power increased while their abilities last longer or have greater damage (depending on each type), but at the same time the cooldowns of the abilities are 35% longer and their defense is lowered.

Desperate Times, Desperate Measures: The arrow and blade upgrades for all troops deal additional damage to military buildings and to units with heavy armor, but only moderate damage to units with ordinary armor, and buildings that produce resources.


Keep the Ring’s Secrets:

If this is chosen there will be four upgrades each giving certain defensive strengths and certain offensive weaknesses to the faction.

Celebrimbor’s Knowledge: The banner carrier and heavy armor upgrades are slightly more powerful for a small additional fee.

The Last Hope: Heroes near Rivendell buildings fight more eagerly and gain a great boost in their defense power but are significantly slower.

The World is Changing: All powers of the Palantir have their cooldowns reduced.

Noldor Defenses: The fortress is concealed by pure magic, the walls and the gate are invulnerable to siege weapons (excluding rams), the defending archers cannot shoot any arrows, but the tower expansions are able to shoot to attackers.


If  the building is attacked then Gandalf will be  heard speaking in the black speech (movie) and either the heroes that are in the council (lvl 1 with no abilities) will come out and fight the attackers, or two mixed battalions of elves dwarves and men fully upgraded. The building will have very low defensive power and as soon as it is destroyed the summoned units will disappear and the ring will pass to the unit that destroyed the building. Also the building will be destroyed if the citadel is destroyed before it.

Finally the building will rebuild itself overtime cost-free.

This way the lore is respected and the ring will be available for any other player to lay hands upon, by allowing it to stay in the game (this goes to some opinions suggesting the ring to leave the map).

I have to point out that I have absolutely no idea about modding, coding etc, so I do not know the functionality of my proposal in game, though I think that, if possible, this idea will be something unique and pretty awesome to see in Edain Mod.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Feb 2016, 11:32
Saeros, your idea is really interesting, and I really see it as a well-made attempt to go beyond the known 'Ring Hero problematic' of Imladris, as none of the faction's heroes could really be regarded as truly suitable for an intentional and personal usage of the One Ring.

But, still, I would say that your proposal doesn't resolve the contradictory idea of Imladris being benefitted by any means from the usage or the refusal of the One Ring itself (its very permanence in the very Castle).

I know, it's a very puzzling question, but also very intriguing as Rivendell must necessarily preserve its sacred nature as probably the purest one among the good factions, along with Lothlórien.
Therefore, I believe we should go even beyond all our previous and current preconceptions about the One Ring and loosen a bit the common boundaries we usually refer to  ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saeros am 23. Feb 2016, 12:34
I see your point, which is obvious, but consider the fact that my whole idea is based in a circumstance, in which the ring is not used by anyone (I should have mentioned it in my previous post)

Expose the Ring's Secrets as I imagined it, it translates in Elrond, Gandalf, Glorfindel or anyone else with the knowledge of the evil things that the Ring has already caused to the free peoples of Middle Earth, to utter stories that inform the rest of the attendees what will happen if the ring is used (offensive boost, but defensive drawback, for the sake of gameplay)

Keep the Ring's Secrets is the same as above, but instead of the recounting of the evil that the ring has caused, stories are told of great deeds of the past and a plan is drawn for the ring to be destroyed.

What I mean with my suggestion is to introduce the actual Council of Elrond, in the game since the ring is an option for the player to capture so he should be allowed to use it as all the rest of the factions in the mod.

I understand your opposition, but I think that it whould be unfair to nulify the opportunity for Imladris to use (in game) the ring. As you can understand the lore cannot be followed strictly in a game, something that already is there in Edain Mod (Drar, Murin, Gandalf with the ring etc)

Now I have a confession for you, before you argue with me (don't get me wrong I like a good discussion as much as the next man) :
I gave a lot of thought in my suggestion and I would like to push as much as I can to see even a small part of it to make it in the game, as I think that it meets all the requirements placed by the community  :D
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 23. Feb 2016, 12:47
IIRC, a beta tester once said that they had found some interesting mechanisms. No offense, but I believe it would be better to wait for Rivendell  to come out before suggesting anything (same thing for Angmar by the way).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Elendils Cousin 3. Grades am 23. Feb 2016, 13:12
IIRC, a beta tester once said that they had found some interesting mechanisms.
Can confirm. xD
But that doesn't mean that you can't discuss ideas concerning factions that are not yet released^^
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Feb 2016, 14:07
Adrigabbro, I am also a Beta Tester and I can confirm and support Elendil's words.
Otherwise, I should have to shut down half of the threads in the General Suggestions board, I guess, depriving this forum of a great proposing and conceptual potential  ;)

Saeros, you have the right to do whatever you want with your unique concept if you are determined and convinced about it.
Only, I wanted to question that your ideas still don't resolve completely the core issues raised throughout the debate.

And, yes, I know too what will be the final solution in the game, even though I can't obviously reveal anything for the due reasons  xD
I just wanted to make clear that the right reasoning to follow is exactly going beyond what we have been commonly used to with the other factions.
Beyond the limits...  :D

Nevertheless, if someone else has other opinions to present, it's very welcome to do it and contribute as well to the discussion  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 23. Feb 2016, 14:28
Alright, didn't mean to sound rude.  ;) My apologize.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saruman der Bunte am 23. Feb 2016, 16:34
Well, concerning the "Ring Hero Problematic" I can only qoute Adamin:

Though while it is true that Elrond never actually expressed any interest in using the Ring, you could say that every good Ring Hero is a "What if"-Character. Galadriel maybe openly desired the Ring, but in the end declined. Gandalf rejected it from the get go, although assuming that he could do many good things with it (at the beginning).
So saying that these people could take the Ring is not as far away from saying Elrond could do so as well, even if it's not as obvious. He's certainly powerful enough.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: VectorMaximus am 23. Feb 2016, 16:46
Okay, if I understand this correctly, from Elendil and Walks comments is that the team have already decided on what to do for the Imladris Ring Hero situation, and have begun implementing it. However, the Beta players obviously can't say.

If so, damnit I want to know really badly now, and if not, my apologies for misunderstanding. :D
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Feb 2016, 17:28
Okay, if I understand this correctly, from Elendil and Walks comments is that the team have already decided on what to do for the Imladris Ring Hero situation, and have begun implementing it. However, the Beta players obviously can't say.

If so, damnit I want to know really badly now, and if not, my apologies for misunderstanding. :D

It means that we will tease you until the actual release of Imladris  :D
No, apart from the jokes, I really can't reveal anything that is not an official news.
But, this doesn't obviously mean that we can't build a conceptual insight into these matters  ;)

Saruman, I agree with Adamin's comment, but that was really one of the earliest comments of this thread, when our debate was at its initial steps.

Furthermore, I think I never really objected the idea of having Elrond or Glorfindel as suitable ring heroes because they are not powerful and authoritative enough.
The point is that, among all the other what-if situations conceived for the other factions, everything regarding Rivendell must necessarily cope with the specific and iconic pure nature of the faction, so that the common solution found for the other factions could seem to be too much stretched and contradictory than the other ones currently (necessarily) are, in case it were applied to Imladris too.

Galadriel expressed her desire for the One Ring and actually gave us a representation of what might have been the consequences for her and her realm.
Lothlórien is just legitimate to have its current ring function, despite the faction's pure nature.
Gandalf expressed too some considerations about the matter, and Gondor itself (as a Human faction deeply characterised by honour, glory and the longing for power) theoretically opens some what-if spaces to speculate around regarding the One Ring.
Rohan is a particular case, but we are still talking about a Human faction, where honour, pride and the regaining of glory are significantly present as well.
The Dwarves have their own specific ring function; but we could nonetheless see honour-related aspects within the faction, and the greed theme connected to the research of more wealth/power.
Anyway, as I wrote, Durin is really a specific case on its own.

What about Imladris?
Do we really have proper what-if aspects that we might explore and expand properly, still in the common perspective that the other factions follow?
I don't think so  :)

P.S. I referred to honour having mainly in mind the negative consequences if it transforms into pure ambition of power and glory (feelings that the One Ring can take advantage of very well).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saeros am 23. Feb 2016, 18:40
I got a little disappointed  :P
Zitat
Saeros, you have the right to do whatever you want with your unique concept if you are determined and convinced about it.

If this making a submod or something like that, my dreams are shuttered, for as I said I have absolutely no idea of interfering with the game files...

Zitat
Only, I wanted to question that your ideas still don't resolve completely the core issues raised throughout the debate.
I guessed my idea was able to solve those concerns and by the details I gave, I thought this suggestion could find its way in the mod.

Anyway I guess I have to wait and see what the team has made for us, and if I have any objections or anything I'll  try to reset my idea and see where and if it will lead to anywhere.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saruman der Bunte am 23. Feb 2016, 19:41
@DieWalküre: Well, the elves are sad to leave Middle-Earth, and after the ring is destroyed their realms will fade. They also have the longing for the glory of past ages. So Elrond as High King of the Noldor, restoring the old splendour makes sense throughout.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Linhir am 23. Feb 2016, 20:37
I have one more idea. (Yes, I heard that ET have picked already the most fitting solution, but I'd like to share it anyway.)

When ring is found, Elrond is confused and don't know what to do, so... he sends one of his most trusted man to valinor, in order to take advice from Valars. In response, one of the heroes of past ages is sent back with message to Elrond. (I know, Valars don't take part in events of middle earth. But it's once again "if".)

I think that this solution is kinda interesting and creates possibilities to bring in some heroes.

How could this system look? It's simple. Player will take ring into the fortress where it will be destroyed (moved out from the actual game) what will lunch countdown. And after countdown, this hero will show up one the edge of map, like harad/rhun/fiefdoms reinforcements. And of course it will be a ring hero. If enemy manage to kill him, ring is free to take.
 
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 23. Feb 2016, 21:08
@DieWalküre: Well, the elves are sad to leave Middle-Earth, and after the ring is destroyed their realms will fade. They also have the longing for the glory of past ages. So Elrond as High King of the Noldor, restoring the old splendour makes sense throughout.

I think it doesn't make so much sense, though.
Because the pivotal fact is that Elrond doesn't have and wouldn't have the intention and will of achieving something of that kind, accepting the ineluctable destiny of the Elves and remembering what type of effects the One Ring eventually displays (in his total refusal of the One Ring, I always found him a bit 'purer' than Galadriel, regarding this very specific aspect).

That's why I believe it would be highly difficult moving throughout this what-if possibility to seek for not so inaccurate concepts.

In fact, the solution that has been found exactly reflects the fact that Imladris doesn't want the One Ring  ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saruman der Bunte am 24. Feb 2016, 06:41
@DieWalküre: Well, the elves are sad to leave Middle-Earth, and after the ring is destroyed their realms will fade. They also have the longing for the glory of past ages. So Elrond as High King of the Noldor, restoring the old splendour makes sense throughout.

I think it doesn't make so much sense, though.
Because the pivotal fact is that Elrond doesn't have and wouldn't have the intention and will of achieving something of that kind, accepting the ineluctable destiny of the Elves and remembering what type of effects the One Ring eventually displays (in his total refusal of the One Ring, I always found him a bit 'purer' than Galadriel, regarding this very specific aspect).

That's why I believe it would be highly difficult moving throughout this what-if possibility to seek for not so inaccurate concepts.

In fact, the solution that has been found exactly reflects the fact that Imladris doesn't want the One Ring  ;)

Ok. A pity. I've always loved the High King mechanic! 8-| Elrond is my favourite Elven-character of the third age (sorry, Galadriel fans! ;)). But I don't doubt that the solution the team came up with will be excellent too.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: lord_ellessar am 27. Apr 2016, 11:06
i think that for the concept of the fellowship it could be a unit controllable by Imladris, a unit like the black riders in Mordor with some powers, it can be just five random heroes from other factions, for exemple, 30% chance to get (Bard, legolas, Gimli, faramir, boromir, gloin, aragorn, haldir, and some others heroes that COULD be in the council of Elrond) :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 27. Apr 2016, 18:32
One thing that I have in my mind that when Elrond (I suppose he is a ring hero) gets the ring he could gain new abilities (or the old ones remain with stronger effects) but when he uses some of them it cost's him not hit points (like Zaphragor) but experience. This could be a reference as the ring corrupts the minds of people. So all his ring abilities would be available at level 1 and he would get exp faster than other heroes due to that his abilities cost exp points and have cooldown (ofc).
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 27. Apr 2016, 18:48
One thing that I have in my mind that when Elrond (I suppose he is a ring hero) gets the ring he could gain new abilities (or the old ones remain with stronger effects) but when he uses some of them it cost's him not hit points (like Zaphragor) but experience. This could be a reference as the ring corrupts the minds of people. So all his ring abilities would be available at level 1 and he would get exp faster than other heroes due to that his abilities cost exp points and have cooldown (ofc).
I like this concept, although I would make some abilities be more than level 1 just to up the stakes.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 27. Apr 2016, 18:53
Elrond is very likely not to be the Ring Hero of Imladris anymore. If you take a look at the previous posts, it is explained that the Edain Team will probably opt for an alternative and innovative Ring System for Imladris; the idea of a pure and sacred faction as Rivendell using the One Ring has always been problematic.

The new system will exactly reflect the fact that Imladris doesn't want the One Ring, and it rejects it. I can't say more for obvious reasons, but I sincerely invite you to wait for the release, or until the Edain Team reveals other details  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Gandalf7000 am 27. Apr 2016, 21:09

Ok! Thanks for the answer.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 28. Apr 2016, 00:27
Obviously, as Elendil previously wrote, the fact that the faction has not been released yet and my invitation are not at all meant to stop you from discussing about Imladris and the One Ring.

Nevertheless, if you have doubts regarding some aspects of the debate, you should just have a look again at the previous comments, and don't hesitate to ask in case you had questions that need direct answers  ;)
Titel: Re: Imladris Ring Heroe
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 21. Mai 2016, 02:05

To my knowledge though Tolkien never said Durin actually got reincarnated.

EDIT:

Glad to hear! And yes he is my favorite  :P
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 21. Mai 2016, 02:18
@Darkslayer
I would like to mention that posting a second comment in rapid succession (No 24 hours in between), called ''double posting'', is against the forum rules. Please refrain from doing so again in the future.

It is better if you edit your previous post first. Otherwise, Moderators will have to clean it up.

Thank you.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 21. Mai 2016, 02:22
Correct. Double posting within 24 hours is not permitted by the forum rules. Edited the comment.

Furthermore, as the reliable Tolkien Gateway (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Durin#cite_note-Durin-4) confirms, the Dwarves do believe that Durin has reincarnated multiple times until the Third Age. The source is appointed to be the Appendices of LOTR.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 2. Jun 2016, 14:16
So, at the turn of the tide, the MYSTERY has finally been revealed  8-)

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBHR2ZU6Ck
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Leri_weill am 2. Jun 2016, 17:11
So, at the turn of the tide, the MYSTERY has finally been revealed  8-)

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBHR2ZU6Ck

Edain Team, you never cease to amaze me.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: AmosVogel am 4. Jun 2016, 06:35
OMG!!!!

 (**) (**) (**)

I feel very very happy!!!!! <3 as always it's great to me sharing ideas for you, since the elder days -my beloved & great Edain team members- till now & so on!!! 

Greetings from Mexico!
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 9. Jun 2016, 16:04
Is this the only thing i will be able to do as elrond with the ring cant he use it by himself like in the older versions of the mod like an alternative way to use the ring ???
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 9. Jun 2016, 19:15
Is this the only thing i will be able to do as elrond with the ring cant he use it by himself like in the older versions of the mod like an alternative way to use the ring ???

Yes, it's the sole way. This solution was exactly implemented to avoid the possibility of a usage of any sort of the One Ring by Rivendell, if not to destroy it: thus the proclamation of the Fellowship of the Ring.

This feature resolves so many lore inconsistencies and, not to mention, it is absolutely loyal to the canonical sources and the LOTR trilogy  :)
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Gandalf The Gray am 10. Jun 2016, 11:27
well i know that this is the lore way to go but still  i think it would be a good thing if wee had a what if version of elrond with the ring what do you think ???
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Saruman der Bunte am 10. Jun 2016, 13:34
I think the Fellowship is a great solution, I had wished for something like that for ages! And although Elrond as High King was an absoloute favourite of mine, his replacement completly makes up for it.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 10. Jun 2016, 14:01
well i know that this is the lore way to go but still  i think it would be a good thing if wee had a what if version of elrond with the ring what do you think ???

This would highly contradict and contrast with all the aspects and reasons we had been discussing about in this thread so far.

If you have doubts of any sort, I think you had better browse this topic again and go very carefully through all the arguments I and other people already and extensively gave in the previous posts.
Titel: Re: Imladris' Ring Hero
Beitrag von: Walküre am 31. Jul 2016, 22:57
This thread has been moved to the Imladris Suggestions board.

MOVED