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[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Discussion and Feedback => Thema gestartet von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Apr 2015, 14:05

Titel: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Apr 2015, 14:05

(https://virtuallyventing.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/fotr0853.jpg)

Some time ago in Lorien update were described roles for Lorien heroes. It was really interesting, because in current version each hero has purpose. Subsequently Ealendril described Dwarven heroes.
We talked about it with Tienety and we tried to find roles for heroes from all factions.
It was very difficult because we had to played with all heroes from current version and we compared them with updates on moddb.com and with English translations on modding-union.com - and then we found differences.
Of course - it is not accurate. Many heroes have more than one role and they have many aspects. But we tried focus for each hero only one role (or two roles, nothing more)
And we are looking forward to discussing with you! ;)
By the way, it may be suitable for Edain wiki as well. Moddb users sometimes want list of Edain heroes and how to play with them. :)

Lorien

Imladris

Dwarves - Erebor/Iron Hills/Ered Luin

Rohan

Gondor/Arnor

Isengard

Misty Mountains

Mordor

Angmar

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 2. Mai 2015, 09:21

I think Gorbag and Shagrat could be improved. I mean their concept as scouts is right but in game they're not that much of scouts. For instance, in MP games, I've only seen people using them as a cheaper version of Gothmog, staying with your army of orcs and not scouting at all. They're more like the super early heroes the team tried to implement in 3.8.1. I think it's mainly because they deal too much damage to units compared to other scouts.

I would suggest something like reducing their damage, but also their cost, and replacing the "Greed" ability with something more scout-like. Their other abilities are cool.

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: Sir_Stig am 4. Mai 2015, 16:43

It's difficult to use them as scouts because it's more cost effective to just use some free orcs and save the money for a Nazgul or Gothmog.

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: ziqing am 15. Mai 2015, 22:50

Well I always picture Celeborn as unit supporter/tank type...

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 16. Mai 2015, 09:40

Zitat von: ziqing am 15. Mai 2015, 22:50

Well I always picture Celeborn as unit supporter/tank type...

Yes, in 3.8.1 version has role which you described, but for 4.0 version Celeborn has different role:

Zitat

Celeborn
The Lord of the Galadhrim is one of those heroes, for whom it is difficult to find a concept. In the end we tried to create a concept in cooperation with the community. We tried to use as many elements of these concepts as possible, and are quite confident with the result. Here, we want to thank everyone who took part in this!
Celeborn will be a hero killer, as written previous. This means his defence will be weaker and he won't be able to survive against enemy troops, but he will be more agile and can deal much damage in a short time. Because of this it will be very important to always keep the position of enemy heroes in mind. Celeborn can be a nightmare for other heroes if his own position is right, that is also why he will be quite difficult to play.

His abilities will be the following:
Level 1: Lord of the Firstborn - Celeborn tries to protect the Firstborn from his enemies.
With every enemy hero within a middle vicinity of Celeborn, Celeborn gets +10% attack (up to 11x cumulative). Becomes 'Lord of the Golden Wood' when using 'Might of the Silver One'.
A passive ability, which offers a big advantage, but only if the enemy uses heroes. So, his enemy might counter Celeborn by sending his hero to another part of the map.

- Level 2: Protecting Wind - Celeborn is surrounded by a protecting gust which intercepts hostile arrows, provides him resistance against knock-back and grants him +25% speed. Becomes 'Torrential Wind' when using 'Might of the Silver One'.
This ability is useful for escaping as well as getting in the middle of your enemies as a stormy wind. Celeborn needs an option to get near enemy heroes and this is exactly the purpose of this ability.

- Level 5: Silver Blade - Celeborn bathes his blade in a silvery light. For 30 seconds he deals Area-of-Effect-Damage, that only hits enemy heroes. Becomes 'Shining Blade' when using 'Might of the Silver One'.
Using this ability, the positions of Celeborn and the enemy hero a very important. The attack itself does not change, but if an enemy hero is near to an attacked unit, he will suffer damage, too. Due to the fact that heroes in version 4.0 will be much weaker alone, so that they will appear usually in combination with troops, this ability offers the possibility to attack an enemy hero without targeting him.

- Level 7: Squall - Celeborn manipulates the winds and drags enemy heroes that are within the range of the skill 'Lord of the Golden Wood' to his position. Becomes 'Heavy Gales' when using 'Might of the Silver One'
When using the ability, Celeborn throws all enemy heroes, being in the radius of his passive ability towards his position. Even without dealing damage the ability is very powerful, because in combination with Silver Blade it may be a deadly encounter for the enemy hero. Celeborn can also quickly separate the enemy heroes from their protecting troops with this ability.

- Level 10: Might of the Silver One - Celeborn gleams and is able to see the future, allowing him to prepare for future events. For 60 seconds all of his skills have stronger effects. Should only be used when all skills are available.

When activating Might of the Silver One, Celeborns ability will change to the following:
Level 1: Lord of the Golden Wood- Celeborn tries to protect his home from hostile invaders. With every enemy hero within a middle vicinity of Celeborn, Celeborn gets +10% attack (up to 11x cumulative).
As long as 'Might of the Silver One' is active Celeborn gets +25% attack speed.

- Level 2: Torrential Wind - Celeborn is surrounded by a torrential wind that intercepts hostile arrows, provides him resistance against knock-back, bestows +25% speed upon him and flings away enemy units.
The effect range of the wind is quite small, of course, but it allows Celeborn to flee more effectively from enemies. But to stop or even slay enemy armies the effect range is not enough.

- Level 5: Shining Blade - Celeborn bathes his blade in a silvery light. For 30 seconds he deals Area-of-Effect-Damage, that only hits enemy heroes and additionally deals +25% damage to them.

- Level 7: Heavy Gale - Celeborn manipulates the winds and drags enemy heroes that are within the range of the skill 'Lord of the Golden Wood' to his position and damages them.

All in all, Celeborn will need much more micro-management and will be harder to play, but we are absolutely confident that if the player provides the needed skill, it will be highly rewarding.

http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-lothlorien-part-2 (http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-lothlorien-part-2)

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 25. Mai 2015, 21:25

Intriguing, but no Gil-galad? :(

He'd make a good Ring hero for Imladris IMO

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Mai 2015, 21:27

Zitat von: Darkslayer am 25. Mai 2015, 21:25

no Gil-galad?

Gil-Galad is only "spellbook hero" available only for some time. He can be tank or something like that.

Titel: Re: Roles for Edain heroes in 4.0
Beitrag von: Darkslayer am 25. Mai 2015, 21:29

Zitat von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Mai 2015, 21:27

Zitat von: Darkslayer am 25. Mai 2015, 21:25
no Gil-galad?

Gil-Galad is only "spellbook hero" available only for some time. He can be tank or something like that.

Wooo wooo! He's my favorite character in Tolkien xD

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 10:41

There's should be full list of heroes for each faction separately, including spellbook heroes. :3

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Aug 2015, 16:51

Zitat von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 10:41

There's should be full list of heroes for each faction separately, including spellbook heroes. :3

I honestly didn't understand you :o
There already is a full list of heroes for each faction separately.

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 17:08

Separately like... in one line Arnor, in other Gondor. In another one Ered Luin etc.

It will be more clear for people who don't know lore too well and looking here for informations like this. ;)
And, as i said, list should be enchanced with temporary heroes, they will have description that player can summon them only for short time via spellbook. ;)

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Aug 2015, 17:31

Zitat von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 17:08

Separately like... in one line Arnor, in other Gondor. In another one Ered Luin etc.
It will be more clear for people who don't know lore too well and looking here for informations like this. ;)

So, you were cryptically referring mainly to the Dwarven Factions and Gondor/Arnor...
Well, I think that the actual display of the lists was the most feasible and simplest way the author of this thread could have ever found; otherwise the description might appear a bit complicated and repetitive to follow :)

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 18:26

Yes.
I played in Edain, and many other mods and games refferring to Middle-Earth, wached movies (even "Born of Hope", give me back two hours of my life you filthy director!) and read some Tolkien's books, so mainly i know who is who and in which faction that heroe belong. But, there's many others who just wanna check out mod and what it offers, and they don't have lore knowledge. It will be easier way for them.

Also, I'm missing something, or Arnor don't have Hero killer? :x
(For that I always use my CaH, so I don't need it, but always - this is only faction which don't have HK, and it's sad a little bit. :( )

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Walküre am 12. Aug 2015, 18:49

Zitat von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 18:26

Yes.
I played in Edain, and many other mods and games refferring to Middle-Earth, wached movies (even "Born of Hope", give me back two hours of my life you filthy director!) and read some Tolkien's books, so mainly i know who is who and in which faction that heroe belong. But, there's many others who just wanna check out mod and what it offers, and they don't have lore knowledge. It will be easier way for them.

Really, I can't understand your point.

Above all lists there are precise titles and indications about the respective factions; there is written 'Gondor/Arnor', and so, given that in the title 'Gondor' comes first and 'Arnor' follows, all heroes in the list before the '/' are Gondor's heroes, the ones after the '/' are Arnor's ones.
The same thing about 'Erebor/Iron Hills/Ered Luin'; the heroes in the list follow the order of the factions in the title.
I don't regard those lists so complicated to follow, even if you are new to the Edain Mod or MU.

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Linhir am 12. Aug 2015, 18:53

Oh, nevermind. Apparently it's this time of day when i starts to contrive too much, unnecessarily. :D

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Apr 2016, 15:40

This topic is really old, but it's been really useful for the Wiki, although I do have some concerns which is pushing me to revive it. First I'd like to point out that Linhir is correct, not all the heroes are present such as the summonable heroes for each factions. Secondly, I'm not sure this is completely accurate anymore. I've had a look at a couple factions while building the wiki and I've found that some just don't fit such as Araphant who is listed as a Building supporter but is mostly a Unit supporter with only his last ability serving to protect buildings. Along with that Arvedui is very varied but more of a unit supporter than a tank. Finally, I think I'd be interesting if the ring heroes were also presented in there since some like Arvedui shift dramatically from Unit supporter to Elite/Hero supporter.

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 11. Apr 2016, 16:52

Basically, it needs to be updated haha!

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 11. Apr 2016, 17:16

well i suppose you can put it that way :D

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: The_Necromancer0 am 16. Mai 2016, 21:46

Zitat von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Apr 2015, 14:05

By the way, it may be suitable for Edain wiki as well. Moddb users sometimes want list of Edain heroes and how to play with them. :)

This is recent, I didn't see it last time I was there. But anyways, I propose a list of updated heroes according to what I see their roles as but I'm glad to have other people discuss since I don't have the best comprehension of all the heroes. I'll also leave MM and Imladris for later cause who knows what changes have been made.

Mordor

Lorien

Rohan

Gondor

Arnor

Isengard

Angmar

Dwarves - Erebor/Iron Hills/Ered Luin

I've separated Arnor and Gondor and added all the summonable heroes but I've not added the duplicates such as Haldir or Gwaihir because they have the same roles.The trouble is making sure that heroes retain only the major roles but I think some could be shortened. I have the less judgement for the dwarves, in fact I can barely differentiate them. If anybody could have a look I'd be very grateful. I'll leave this here for now, I've got 4 more days of exam and then I'll have a look again. Looking forward to everybody's thoughts.

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 16. Mai 2016, 22:21

Very nice list :)

Only changes I think need to be made:

1. Narin isn't on the list.
2. Treebeard is a Unit Supporter and Quickbeam isn't.
3. Lothlorien has Grimbeorn, not Beorn.
4. Beregond is also a Hero Supporter (at least when he reaches level 10).
5. Thorin III for the Iron Hills is more of a Hero Killer with Tank aspect, but that I guess is up to opinion.
6. Durmarth is a Hero Killer and Hero Supporter, not Tank.

Overall, nice work ;)

Titel: Re: List of Edain heroes and their roles
Beitrag von: Odysseus am 16. Mai 2016, 22:25

I also think you did a good job, Necro! As long as you would state in the wiki that these are more generally accepted guidelines and functions that the heroes can serve in at their best, and that they are open to debate and interpretation, then I think you are golden.

Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Discussion and Feedback => Thema gestartet von: TiberiusOgden am 25. Apr 2015, 14:05