Modding Union

[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] Dwarven Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: Tienety am 2. Jul 2015, 18:25

Titel: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Jul 2015, 18:25
I have some ideas for Thorin III. and larger differences between his two versions.
I think it is a pity that both his versions are very similar. Maybe young Thorin III. can be stubborn and more aggressive. :D

Iron Hills version (Thorin III.):
He gets a new unique two-handed weapon:

Level 1: Runes (same as now)

Level 1: Dain's heritage (same as now)

Level 5: Retribution: Thorin wants to avenge their fallen friends. He is angry to enemy hero and try to kill him. Enemy hero dealing damage and he can't move for 5 seconds.

Level 10: Stubborn dwarf: Thorin plunges into battle with enthusiasm and destroys everything in his path. For 20 seconds he deals +75% more damage.

Erebor version (Thorin Stonehelm):

Level 1: Runes (same as now)

Level 1: Prince under the Mountain: His ability "Dain's heritage" gets a new name.

Level 5: Righteous Heap (same as now)

Level 10: Stonehelm: His ability "Iron Determination" gets a new name. This ability is the same but also Thorin gets +1000 health points and selected hero gets +500 health points.

What do you think about this?  8-)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Draco100000 am 2. Jul 2015, 18:37
This could be awesome, but a bit overpowered. So maybe if not 150% more damage, maybe 75% more damage at lvl 10, with his first abilitie. But remember that Thorin Stonehelm is a Tank, before a Hero Killer, and being the 2 things could be extreamly overpowered. Now he could kill a enemy hero 1 vs 1 easily, imagine with more damage buff, or with this abilities, could win even in 3 vs 1.
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: ziqing am 2. Jul 2015, 18:45
Throin III should be hero killer for iron hill and tank for Erebor
A new design with more royal appearance for Erebor version would be great
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Jul 2015, 18:54
Zitat von: Draco100000 am  2. Jul 2015, 18:37
This could be awesome, but a bit overpowered. So maybe if not 150% more damage, maybe 75% more damage at lvl 10, with his first abilitie. But remember that Thorin Stonehelm is a Tank, before a Hero Killer, and being the 2 things could be extreamly overpowered. Now he could kill a enemy hero 1 vs 1 easily, imagine with more damage buff, or with this abilities, could win even in 3 vs 1.
Yes, you're right. He can get now only +75% damage. ;)

Zitat von: ziqing am  2. Jul 2015, 18:45
Throin III should be hero killer for iron hill and tank for Erebor
A new design with more royal appearance for Erebor version would be great

Yes, maybe he could have a little different roles in Erebor and Iron Hills:
Erebor: Tank with an Hero Killer aspect
Iron Hills: Hero Killer with an tank aspect
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: ziqing am 2. Jul 2015, 19:05
Erebor already has Gimli for hero killer aspect
We should avoid this two roles for one hero, it will tend to give us unbalanced results
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 2. Jul 2015, 19:14
Zitat von: ziqing am  2. Jul 2015, 19:05
Erebor already has Gimli for hero killer aspect
We should avoid this two roles for one hero, it will tend to give us unbalanced results
Gimli's role is Mass slayer. You can find all roles here: ;)
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.0.html (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.0.html)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Draco100000 am 2. Jul 2015, 19:28
Zitat von: Tienety am  2. Jul 2015, 19:14
Zitat von: ziqing am  2. Jul 2015, 19:05
Erebor already has Gimli for hero killer aspect
We should avoid this two roles for one hero, it will tend to give us unbalanced results
Gimli's role is Mass slayer. You can find all roles here: ;)
http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.0.html (http://forum.modding-union.com/index.php/topic,30866.0.html)

No one knows it but, if you use slayer abilitie of Gimli, he can kill everything (even balrogs)  [uglybunti]
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 2. Jul 2015, 23:49
I preatty much agree on eveything about his powers that you said!And I love the Weapon though I always have found ONe Handed Weapons cooler XD and I think it is nice to be One Handed but may be with Shield!?
But still more or the less I think he needs a design change in both Erebor and Iron Hills!With all the Concept Arts from WETA for both kingdoms it wont be hard to make some new look and Armor for him to make him look more majestic like a Prince and Heir of Durin!I think he deserves more Noble looking and cool heavy Armor!?Don't you think so!? :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 3. Jul 2015, 09:03
Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am  2. Jul 2015, 23:49
I preatty much agree on eveything about his powers that you said!And I love the Weapon though I always have found ONe Handed Weapons cooler XD and I think it is nice to be One Handed but may be with Shield!?
But still more or the less I think he needs a design change in both Erebor and Iron Hills!With all the Concept Arts from WETA for both kingdoms it wont be hard to make some new look and Armor for him to make him look more majestic like a Prince and Heir of Durin!I think he deserves more Noble looking and cool heavy Armor!?Don't you think so!? :)

I think it would be nice to have a smaller difference between his two versions:
Erebor: One-Handed Golden axe(same as now) maybe + shield
Iron Hills: Two-Handed axe

I have a feeling that you want new designs for all dwarves. :D
Personally, I like his old design in Erebor but I agree that Thorin (Iron Hills) could get new more majestic armor. ;)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 3. Jul 2015, 09:08
Well when there are so much ne designs and arts that can be used to improve the great heroes that Edain created I do not see why not! :) Thorin is cool as he is but I think just need some more Armor fiting for a noble Dwarf! :) And I agree about the smalelr difference between the 2 versions!
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 4. Jul 2015, 08:42
Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am  3. Jul 2015, 09:08
Well when there are so much ne designs and arts that can be used to improve the great heroes that Edain created I do not see why not! :) Thorin is cool as he is but I think just need some more Armor fiting for a noble Dwarf! :) And I agree about the smalelr difference between the 2 versions!

Maybe in far future. They have other priorities that new designs for all dwarves in mod. ;)

I have an idea for his armor. Maybe Thorin could get old Dain's concept art armor. I think that this would be more suitable for Prince of the Iron Hills:
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 4. Jul 2015, 11:41
I like those Dain COncept Arts they all look so cool and noble,but wouldnt this Armor make Thorin III look like too much like Dain!?I mean the Helmets is fine may be without the Bora on top but with it too it will fit him,as for Armor may be without the Cape and some other few changes it will make the perfect Thorin III Stonehelm of Iron Hills!? :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 4. Jul 2015, 12:10
I wanted just this Dain's armor without a helmet from picture for Thorin with his old face, hair and beard from old model.
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 4. Jul 2015, 12:24
I know!I meant wouldnt the Armor be too much alike!?The team said they do not want to use erebor Movie Soldiers and Iron Hills Soldiers cuz their Armor look alike too much!So I thought this wil lbe a problem for them too!But I like your idea and the Helmet may be used for his LV 10 Power! :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 4. Jul 2015, 12:43
I think that Thorin (Iron Hills) does not need a helmet.  In my proposal only Thorin (Erebor) can get a helmet.

Yes, you are right. Maybe Thorin can get this armor(without a helmet, cape and weapon) in blue and red colors:
with new unique two-handed weapon:

You can compare this with Dain's designs in edain:
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 5. Jul 2015, 22:54
I liek the first Armro you suggested more with some minor changes and without a cape it will be a perfect Heavy Armor for a Noble heir of Durin! :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Adamin am 6. Jul 2015, 01:03
Hm, guess you're right and Thorin III. really should be remade someday...

But I too think that he shouldn't be too similar to Dain. That's actually tricky: He should look a little bit like his daddy, but not too much...

I like the Axe though!
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 6. Jul 2015, 04:04
Nice to see that you agree Adamin!!Like I said he shouldn't look like Dain too much  but there are a lot of cool concept art Armors to choose from ! :-)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 6. Jul 2015, 08:13
Zitat von: Adamin am  6. Jul 2015, 01:03
Hm, guess you're right and Thorin III. really should be remade someday...

But I too think that he shouldn't be too similar to Dain. That's actually tricky: He should look a little bit like his daddy, but not too much...

I like the Axe though!
I'm glad you like something from my suggestion. :D

Zitat von: LordDainIronfoot am  6. Jul 2015, 04:04
Nice to see that you agree Adamin!!Like I said he shouldn't look like Dain too much  but there are a lot of cool concept art Armors to choose from ! :-)

I'm sure that you can find better armor for Thorin III.  xD
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 6. Jul 2015, 09:28
I will leave that work to you ! ;)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 13. Jul 2015, 13:33
Well since nobody offered an alternate Armor and Design I will do my best and take yet again eveyone cticism :D So here is my idea about Thorin III Stonehelm as he gets LV 10 may be something like this http://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/762/761504/Erebor_Heavy_Regal_Armor_Nobleman.png but with the Grey/Iron Color of Dain from the Movies and with Red Clothing and stuff and with different weapon like this which can be reamede as a one handed with a Shield or may be Two Handed still it will look great or may be this one for example http://i.imgur.com/0cPpTwR.png !And I think even the helmet is great but again with a change of color! :)
Now in Erebor as a crowned Prince he ma yge more Royal Armor or Ceremonial if you wish with may be more Raven Motive to signafy that he is Heir to Erebor like this one http://imgur.com/bTwEDnv,Y8Vv0aX,F4LYMaC,4WlMfog again with some color adjusments and different weapon! :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Tienety am 14. Jul 2015, 09:50
Yes, this armor can looks good. But why did Thorin gets this armor on level 10?
Maybe it would be better if he had this armor immediately on level 1 but he can gets helmet on level 10.
I think this helmet with a different color would be fit for both versions:

This could be a nice difference with helmet:
Thorin III.(Iron Hills) gets a helmet on the 10 level.
Thorin Stonehelm(Erebor) gets a helmet immediately on the 1 level.

I make a few changes for Thorin's abilities:

Iron Hills version (Thorin III.):

Erebor version (Thorin Stonehelm):
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: LordDainIronfoot am 14. Jul 2015, 10:36
Zitat von: Tienety am 14. Jul 2015, 09:50
Yes, this armor can looks good. But why did Thorin gets this armor on level 10?
Maybe it would be better if he had this armor immediately on level 1 but he can gets helmet on level 10.
I think this helmet with a different color would be fit for both versions:

This could be a nice difference with helmet:
Thorin III.(Iron Hills) gets a helmet on the 10 level.
Thorin Stonehelm(Erebor) gets a helmet immediately on the 1 level.

I make a few changes for Thorin's abilities:

Iron Hills version (Thorin III.):

Erebor version (Thorin Stonehelm):
You are right about the Armor from LV 1 and the Helmet! :) I agreee on 100% with yout ideas about the Helmet and Powers! :) He will look magnificent if they change him in that Armor but with Grey/Iron and Red Colors! :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: Adrigabbro am 26. Okt 2015, 20:48
Now that some new stuff has already been teased for helping to create more differences between Iron Hills and the two other realms, perhaps it is time to reconsider the topic.  :)

Tienety got the right idea I believe: Iron Hills Stonhelm could be more aggressive than Erebor's as he is younger and then less wise. That's a start. Let's not forget his role is to tank and there must be strong connections between both skillsets. Pretty sure we can get to something.

The rune powers are very fine (units related for Iron Hills, buildings for Erebor), no change needed.
Dain's Heritage fits well Iron Hills. Erebor counterpart could be passive experience boost. Upon activaction, Stonehelm gains extra experience and armor while fighting, but the passive leadership disappears until cooldown is off (same way). "Prince under the Mountain" is a nice name (Tienety).
Righteous Heap is more suitable for Erebor. With Iron Hills, Thorin could gain extra damage or speed instead of armor.
Iron Determination is a though choice, but I'd go for Iron Hills and give Erebor Stonehelm a new unique level 10 ability: Thorin Stonehelm gains X% additional armor for each ally hero around him. This bonus also applies to other heroes.
He could also keep the regular passive ability "keeps fighting when his health bar is empty".

I think the last spell could be a unique addition to the mod and for Thorin's tank role. Plus as Adamin said, it reminds a bit of King Dain who fought side by side with Brand of Dale, but there is still plenty of difference between Stonhelm and his father. As for the design, I trust you guys, if you ever think he needs a new one. I'll just say that I like the axe in the first post.
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: WarOfTheRingVeteran am 26. Okt 2015, 22:10
Damn, I would like indeed if Thorin would get some new design. I especially like Dain's idea about armour on level 10, but I would prefer a grey one. For Erebor version, he could get somewhat more royal look, which could be accomplished by adding a big fur cape or similar. Also, he was about 150 years old during the War of the Ring, so I think he definitely needs some grey hair :)
Titel: Re: Thorin III. Stonehelm
Beitrag von: helloa2134 am 26. Okt 2015, 22:35
If the team thinks Thorin III needs a new design and wants to appease a certain segment of the community, then the team could give Iron Hills Thorin III the movie design for Dain's soldiers. It wouldn't be exactly fitting with the Iron Hills aesthetic, which I think is a big problem, but thematically the armor would be all right. I mean, Thorin is the tank of the faction, so equipping him in heavy armor would make sense.  Personally I don't much care either way, but if the team thinks it's a decent idea then it may be something to consider. 

As for Erebor Thorin III, well I don't have any real concrete designs in mind other than maybe equip him with some royal-looking armor.  It could be very similar to his father's armor.