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[en] Edain Mod => [Edain] Suggestions => [Edain] General Suggestions => Thema gestartet von: Hamanathnath am 19. Sep 2016, 14:57

Titel: Fear, Stun, and Fear Resistance
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 19. Sep 2016, 14:57

I find it kinda odd how Fears and Stuns work in this mod.  They seem to be in this state where they are both overpowered and underpowered at the exact same time.  The thing about that makes them that way is while many of them are very strong, and can be chained to basically make an army unable to do anything for a while, make factions have these really strong fear resistances that can nullify that completely.  Here is my opinion on how they should work.

I personally think that most of the passive leaderships that give Fear Resistance should be changed.  Having a permenent source of Fear Immunity is very overpowered in my eyes, especially when certain heroes such as Dain Ironfoot and Cirdan can get these starting at level 1.  Now I don't mind heroes like Aragorn and Theoden have level 10 leaderships with Fear Resistance, because these heroes cost a lot, and it take them a long time to get them there, and it also makes sense considering the characters themselves.  But besides them, and maybe a few others, all passive Leaderships should not give fear resistance. 

Horns/Eye of Sauron and Active Leaderships should be the main sources of fear resistance, but they shouldn't last much longer then 10-15 seconds.  This way you will have counters to fear resistance, but won't be able to completely nullify every stun a faction has.  While this may seem drastic, it leads into my next idea. 

To counter all these changes to Fear Resistance, the main idea of this post is to propose a new way of getting Fear Resistance, which is whenever you get successfully stunned, after the effect ends, you will get a 10 second immunity to stuns.  I think this system would fix the problem of stuns chain into one another, and if all the changes I propose come to be, Stuns would be effective, but they can not last the entire fight. 

Would love to hear feedback on this.

Titel: Re: Fear, Stun, and Fear Resistance
Beitrag von: FG15 am 19. Sep 2016, 20:25

Looking forward for more input on this topic.
Just some information concerning your last paragraph:

There are basically 4 different ways to "stun" an enemy.

• Fear: enemies cower on the floor, for example Boromirs Horn
• Terror: enemies run away cowering, for example the Screech of the Nazgul
• Paralyze: enemies are stunned, for example Soul Freeze
• Slow: the movement speed is set to 0, for example Lurtz Cripple Strike

The normal Fear Resistance (Spellbook Horn, Faramir's leadership) offers resistance against Fear and Terror, but both can be gained independently in theory. Paralysations can't be countered at all and Slows can be only be countered by their anti category.

Every modifier has a type STUN, DEBUFF, BUFF, LEVEL , STRUCTURE , WEAPON, SPELL, FORMATION , LEADERSHIP. These are used for different types of modifiers, but have no direct effect as far as I know. Also every aura can list an Anticategory for the modifier it offers. If the Anticategory is active the modifier won't work. Exactly this system is used for Freezing Rain.
The problem is that the Anticategory only works for Auras (standard leaderships), not for modifiers in weapons ore active abilities. Sadly these are the ways 99% of all Stuns and Slows with Modifiers work. I guess it would theoretically be possible to rework all Slows such that they work with Eggs which are spawned and have an Aura (similar to the River of Mirkwood if I remember it correctly), but this would have to be Areas of Stuns/Slows. Then Lurtz Cripple Shot might target nearby enemy heroes, too if they are too close.

Therefore, immunity to stuns in general is not possible, which makes your concept obsolete. Applying only the resistance against Fear and Terror in the way you proposed is probably also either impossible or hardly possible, because the immunity has to be applied delayed.

Titel: Re: Fear, Stun, and Fear Resistance
Beitrag von: Hamanathnath am 20. Sep 2016, 14:02

Very good to know.  Obviously, If it is impossible to do,  then I won't continually call for that specific idea :)

But I still think that something needs to be done with this topic.  Having passive leaderships having complete fear immunity is still a little bit too overpowered, especially when certain of those abilities are level 1 abilities.  I'm not saying that it should be as rare (or nonexistent in some cases) as it was in BFME2/ROTWK, but there should be a balance to how easy/hard it is to be get Fear Immunity.

I'll list off the Factions that I think get Fear Immunity too early and/or often.

Imladris: Cirdan having a passive Fear Immunity at level 1 is way too much.  My suggestions would be to put the Fear Immunity on the active part of this ability, and also give Fear Immunity to Glorfindel's Light of Hope while it is active.

Rohan:  Having Theoden and all 3 Marshals of Rohan give passive Fear Immunity is also a bit too much.  Just keep it on Theoden, and give the Marshals other passive leaderships (maybe something unique for each of them?).

Dwarves:  I know Iron Hills gets it a bit too early, and I honestly can't remember how Erebor and Ered Luin get it.  But I think putting fear resistance on the active effect of Vendetta/Defend the Halls/King in Exile would be the best move for them.

Pretty much every other faction is fine, besides possibly Gondor (due to Faramir) and Isengard (due to Uruk Captains), but they both take a bit longer to get Fear Immunity then the others so it is hard to say.

I'm not saying my suggestions are the only ways of balancing this out, but those 3 factions are probably the biggest causes of this problem, with Isengard and Gondor being right behind them.  The system for Fear Resistance isn't completely broken right now, I just think is could be in a better place, and Heroes like Boromir suffer because of it, because of how easy it is to counter Horn of Gondor right now.