First and foremost, hello everyone, I'm new here, so pleased to meet you : ).
Second, as I said on ModDB, many thanks to the Edain Team for the tremendous work you did on BfME : you literally raised from the dead the interest I had for the game and got me playing again, so I can't thanks you enough : ).
Now for my impression : I had a very busy week-end so I only had time for 2 games with a friend :
- I played Gondor and her Rohan (against 2 easy enemies, Mordor and Isengard)
- I played Mordor and her Isengard (against 3 easy enemies : 2 Gondor and 1 Rohan)
So I have not seen everything and I may have missed things even with the factions I played.
As I feel I have a lot to say, I'm going to try to keep the whole thing organized and clean.
Also, I'll probably end up writing : "it would be better if" and the likes, so I'll apologize in advance : I'm not complaining and I really think you guys did an amazing job, but there are a few things I couldn't help to feel could be better (though it is ultimately my opinion) and I wish to tell you about them, should you agree and should it help make this mod even better : ).
General impression : The Good...
Going back to the old BfME I fixed building plots and wall system was a real delight. I never cared so much for the BfME II system, especially with it's extremely brittle buildings and walls, so being able to play with the system I like best while still having a ton of new stuff was epic : ).
All the unit models were cool, as were most of the portraits : I especially like the unveiled dark general's (I think it's his name ^^), and I also really like the Ringlo dale swordsmen (model and portrait).
I hadn't read about the new choice system on resource buildings : (choice between defense, production and command points) and I was really happy to find it in game. It adds a really nice dimension to managing resource buildings that complements well with their new diversity (farms, houses etc.).
Overall, it was a really good experience and I look forward to many more games in the future. Especially, playing the Demo was like coming back to a ten times better BfME I, but when there will be dwarves, and elves it will be...*drool*...
And the Feedback...
Maps
I only played two so I can't say much, ans I don't see what I could complain about. The only thing would be that you do not know before starting a map whether you'll have a castle or a camp, and thus I was unable to play with a full city for my first two games since I picked the maps at random.
As I remember, in the skirmish menu, BfME I said for each map the nature of the starting points for the player (as well as the number of other building points of interest), and I think it might be a good idea to add that to the map description. However, in the comments for the 4.0 update, I remember reading a few times people of the Team speaking about leaving us things untold to explore, and if it is a deliberate choice not to tell us before we actually play the map, then it's fine ^^.
Bugs and Glitches ?
I haven't seen many, but a few things caught my eye :
- In the Rohan Stud building, the pacing horse tends to go halfway through the fence.
- I witnessed a battalion of Scout Uruks that were running very hard as per their animation, while their actual movement speed was slow, making the overall impression rather awkward.
- I think I remember a battalion of Cirith Ungol (or maybe regular) pikemen running with an oddly quick leg movement animation.
- After an hour and a half of the second game, the game crashed with an error I forgot to write down. I suspect it has something to do with my friend building a Steelworks (the Outpost upgrade building for Isengard) as she had just started building it, and when I built it as a test in a quick game I did after that, it did not crash the game but froze it for a couple of seconds.
(On a side note : I've always believed that the original sound effect for the farms (in BfME I, and II as well, I think) comes from the squeaking of the gate of Shadowfaxe's box in the Two Towers film when Gandalf comes to him in Edoras to ride out and gather Rohirrim to fight at Helm's Deep (at least it sound quite similar), and that it was why this weird noise was supposed to represent the farms of the good factions (I might be wrong, as it does not make that much of sens anyway ^^). At any rate, I believe I heard this sound play on a resource building for evil (I think it's the slave fields of Mordor) and because it felt associated with Rohan, or at least Good in my head, I found it sounded awkward).
Unit Models and Portraits
Don't see what I could say about the models, they're all quite cool : ). And that's precisely for that reason I have a few gripes with some portraits : as in Edain 3.8, there are a few instances of very cool units having a sub-par portrait.
In 3.8 Dale Men where concerned, along with the added Dwarf Unit with the mattock and a few others.
In 4.0, I saw two of the 4 reinforcement troops (from the beacon) for Gondor : the archers and the pikemen : they have zooms of their model (I assume) as portrait, but it seems too coarse compared to the precise drawing-like portraits of most other BfME and Edain units. I was especially disappointed by the archer's portrait because the arrival of Gondor reinforcements in the books is one of my favorite part. When I saw I could get them through the beacon I was overjoyed, then disappointed to only see the (gorgeous) Ringlo swordsmen and quite nice axemen, wondering where the archers (I love archers : ) were, then over-overjoyed to see I could get them through the spellbook, then disappointed again to the them with a really nice model but lackluster portrait.
I do realize that most portraits for units you added are reworked pictures from the films (ah, I remember, I also quite like Erkenbrand's portrait ^^) and as such it is harder to find portraits for units that don't figure in the films at all (boo to Peter Jackson for not including the Gondor reinforcements btw : P). On the other hand, I believe the unit portrait is as important as it's model, as it's certainly bigger on the screen and contributes to giving it an unique and awesome identity : it's like in old RPGs (ex : Baldur's Gate) : you didn't care much that the model for your character is small on the screen and/or not very detailed, because you had an extra-large detailed portrait to fuel your imagination and representation of the character.
Be it as it may, I believe the Ringlo swordsmen (yes, them again : P), are a perfect example of successful Edain units with perfect model-portrait combination, as are most added units, really, and I believed it was worth mentioning for the few units I felt were lacking in that department.
On the same note, some buildings icons suffered in my opinion of the same problem (I can recall the Gondor stonework). I believe it is a tiny detail that is nonetheless detrimental to the overall feeling of overall very high quality of the mod : ).
A last very minor point : the two Southron units are a bit confusing because they look so much like each other and at first I didn't understand why the game considered them as a mixed horde of units and not several battalions of the same thing ^^.
English
Not much to say, a few awkward translations and a few forgotten German lines (Theoden's mount toggle I believe, for instance). On that note, a great many thanks for the full translation and voice-over in English for this Edain 4.0 : I don't have a thing against the German language, but I just don't understand much of it, and having units speaking both German lines and English ones was a bit strange (and I can't deny having LotR material in it's original language feels right for me : P).
Good Siege Units
This is bordering on balance considerations, and I don't think I know a thing about that, but I felt the Good IA (Rohan mostly) overused it's rams. They look gorgeous (with the horse head) but you come to dislike them somewhat when they come to your base three at a time ^^.
While I see the necessity for even Rohan to have siege units, I feel they should be either rarer, or easier to destroy (the rams I mean), especially because of the tendency of the IA to run straight for your buildings. As I recall, in BfmE I, rams were very effective against gates, but quite brittle too, and it seemed fine. Not to mention I can't see Rohan as a siege nation ^^.
On another note, it's more a question of taste, but I find Rohan's catapult and Gondor's ram feel out of place. Both models are good (especially the catapult's), but don't quite fit in my opinion. The catapult feels too heavy and squarish for the horse-lords, while the ram doesn't look very gondorean. Actually, for the Gondor ram, I believe a solid trunk with an adorned head and a company of armored soldiers (maybe shield bearers to make it look tougher ^^) to carry it like Rohan would be better. While the defense of Minas-Tirith (as shown in the movie and books) justifies their possessing powerful trebuchets, as they don't seem to be quite the conquering/besieging nation, it seems odd for them to have such an implement of medieval warfare.
Buildings
There again, it's more of a matter of taste, but, while most buildings models are really good, I couldn't help but feel some buildings were just a bit off.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't remember seeing a great visual difference between different stages of Mordor buildings, so a full fledged Mordor base felt a bit more bleak than threatening (then again, Mordor IS bleak ^^).
Some buildings on the outposts too feel “lonely” : I had this impression most with the Dol Amroth fortress, the Minas Morgul and Cirith Ungol fortress as well as a few others. I don't know if it's because they're a bit blocky, or because there's no transition between the building and the surrounding nature (like moats, a small garden, courtyard, or other) but they somewhat feel liker they were just dropped there but don't belong.
Especially the Dol Amroth fortress (and Gothaurs Tor ...), as it reuses the model for the classical Men (and Mordor) fortress from BfmE II but without the extension plots and thus feels a little incomplete.
Buildings Experience and Units Recycling
It may be because I was playing in Easy (although the enemy hit quite hard in the beginning, and overthrew us once or twice, but I'm not a very skilled RTS player ^^) but I had a few unit management problems : the ability to specialize some resource structures for command points is really good and welcome but :
As far as I could tell, buildings earn experience from troops production, and some upgrades/troops become available at higher buildings levels. For that reason, once the game-start havoc was calmed, I ended up being unable to research flaming arrows and producing the elite Gondor unit from the barracks (as much as I wanted to, it looks awesome : P) because I was at full command points from producing troops (and getting beacon reinforcements) and couldn't produce more troops to level my building, and it was a bit frustrating.
For that same reason, I looked for the possibility BfME II had introduced to decommission units at the citadel to free space, but couldn't find it, so it gave me a few ideas.
First, it doesn't seem proper, at least for good factions, to have to send units to their death if they end up having to many (which is quite easy for Gondor with the beacon and/or if the game becomes a bit stagnant) ; for that purpose, I believe decommissioning was a good option.
Second, I do see why it is important for buildings not to be able to recruit top tier units at the start (even if it's blocked by their high cost), and I was never fond of BfME II bought tier leveling, but being blocked from producing high end units late game simply because you didn't rely on that building for battle until now seems a bit hard. Therefore, I thought that maybe, putting a progressive slow experience gain for buildings (like it was the case for at least some buildings in BfME I) in addition to the burst experience from producing troops, could prevent this from happening.
Lastly, it's just a wild suggestion, but while decommissioning seems like a good thing, it always seemed odd to exchange your soldiers for resources (like you were actually killing them and serving them to the rest to eat ^^) ans so it gave me some ideas of mechanism :
- you decommission them to a troop building to give it a bit experience
- you decommission them to a production building to gain a short-time production buff (thanks to the extra hands for managing the farms/work you see : P)
- you decommission them to upgrade buildings for a short use (the next 1-2) upgrade price reduction
Or something of the kind, with possible specific effects (like feeding them to the Troll cage to boost a bit troll production, like trolls were able to eat Orcs to regenerate health in BfME I (while it made no sense ^^).
Gondor's Beacon and Overall Outposts Buildings
I have two points to make, one reasonable and the other less so.
Reasonably, it would be nice to be able to toggle on-off the Gondor beacon, so as to stop the influx of soldiers when you don't need them, without destroying the building. While I don't know about the mod-coding feasibility, it seems rather reasonable both gameplay and lore wise : the toggle would be signaled by the fire being lit-unlit, and it makes sense that Gondor should light the fires when they need help and then smother them when they don't anymore.
Unreasonably, it's about how the outpost possibilities of all factions but Mordor (and maybe Rohan, since I didn't play with them but saw a bit of how it worked on my friend's screen and in updates) seem limited. Actually, during the months of waiting impatiently for the 4.0 version to go out, I read all the updates, and I like very much the idea of the minifactions (Mirkwood for Lorien, Dale etc.) and they seem so much fun that the steelworks of Isengard and the somewhat empty Dol Amroth fortress look a bit dull. As I tend pro prefer playing the good factions, I must say I don't have a clue for Isengard, but for Gondor I got a few ideas I might as well mention.
I seem to remember reading that you considered the beacon was just right on small outside buildplots because it was not good enough for an Outpost, but I would beg to differ. I believe that, in the books (as it was almost completely left aside in the films T_T), Gondor's strength is in it's size and it's ability to call on its fiefs for their soldiers when defending Minas-Tirith. After all, during the siege of the city and the battle of the fields of Pelenor, even if we count Rohan out since it's already a separate faction, I believe at least half the defenders were not from the city but from its fiefs, even more so since, in the books, Aragorn doesn't bring the dead to the fields of Pelenor but an army from South Gondor he was able to muster after freeing them from the Corsairs at the mouths of Anduin (this time, really thanks to the Dead ^^).
As such, the beacon, as an iconic building from the movie dedicated to calling one's allies, seems perfect to me as a full fledged Outpost building. To justify it being an Outpost Building, I can think of maybe (full knowing it would be a lot of work for you, so those are just suggestions off the top of my head) :
- giving the units the beacon gives access to some specific abilities
- putting the Dol Amroth infantry/elite cavalry in there as well
- making available some new heroes from the other fiefs (Forlong, the archer brothers whose name I completely forgot and die trampled by Mumaks) ; or, in a total rip-off of Rohan's marshal system you implemented, have those “heroes” come to the beacon and then summon a battalion of it's troops to fight under his command.
- putting there one upgrade or two justified by trade or exchange with the fiefs (better horses maybe, as Gondor's cavalry from Minas-Tirith is few and not very strong (book)
- rather than having the beacon call all troops, have the player choose one or maybe two regions to call on, which would then send it's troops after the proper delay
- have Dol Amroth be a “rare drop” from troop summon, or available only after a spellbook/beacon upgrade
- have the beacon be more than a beacon and be a place of communication with Gondor's fiefs, and so give some income (like Laketown seems to be able to do for the dwarves), and maybe replace the market in it's functions.
- maybe... (I'm forgetting myself ^^)
Maybe with a bit of an overhaul Ithilien rangers camp could become an Outpost building as well, with the ability of waylaying troops, acting thus as a subtle defense structure, and giving access to very good archers. After all, Ithilien is Gondor's closest fief to Mordor and they seem to rely a lot on ambush to weaken and thwart the Dark Lord in his designs, so giving it the ability to summon temporarily a company of elite bowman in its vicinity for defense purposes wouldn't sound strange to me : ).
Unit Information
This is a very minor point, but there are a few cases where you don't really know which of two units you should take to fulfill a role. The rule I apply in general, is the more costly in resources/command points a unit is, the stronger it will most likely be, but I find it somewhat awkward to have no “objective” way of choosing. Displaying the unit's full stats would seem intrusive and a bit much, but maybe a star/rank/I don't know, maybe just some text system to point us in the right direction when comparing troops could be nice.
Production Upgrades
I'll finish with that one as my text is getting rather long and whimsical ^^.
As I said earlier, I as quite delighted to see the unannounced (or else I had missed it's announcement) production buildings upgrade system, so of course I had some ideas regarding that too ^^ :
- it would be nice maybe to have a few different icons depending on if the building is good/evil and/or if it produces food or iron.
- it would be nice to have variants to the upgrades depending on factions : like Gondor produces less but can enhance its farms defense more, or something ; or even to have one upgrade specific to faction
And at long last I've finished ^^. I hope I didn't sound too reproachful because it wasn't my aim at all, nor was it to tell you what's good and what isn't or what to do : I believe you did a wonderful and tremendous job (the launcher blew me away by the way, I almost wondered if I hadn't launched Battle-Net by mistake instead of Edain ^^) and I'm just getting even greedier for the little things I'd like to see and play because I love Tolkien's Middle-Earth so much and you listen to us so much : ).
At any rate, thanks for reading all this, if anybody has, and thanks a lot for the great mod : ).
Side note :
Sorry for the wall of text, when I started writing, I couldn't stop : P.
Sorry if I strayed from the focus of this topic, I'm not too used to posting on forums ^^ ; I tried to keep it as objective and factual as I could.
Once again to the Edain Team, thank you for the mod, and congratulations on the successful production of Battle for Middle Earth 3 : ).
