[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Mordor Suggestions

Changes to Sauron, Orcs and Trolls

(1/2) > >>

DarkestMaiar:
Hello ladies and gentlemen and players of the amazing Edain mod, I would like to start by saying how I love the Edain mod and have been eagerly awaiting an English release since you first started releasing the mod in German and finally in 4.0 my dream has come true. I have some ideas however that I think would benefit the game and mordor in especially.

Things I love about Mordor in Edain 4.1

-Amazing variety in orcs and units. You have so many different types of orcs in the game, from regular variety to the expansion fortress units, Cirth Ungol, Morgal etc. Its a joy to have different types.  Choice has always been a love for mordor players in my opinion because few factions have as many varied units.

-Customization on the trolls is excellent. I always thought it was redundant to have regular trolls, only to be replaced completely later on by attack trolls but you have cleverly made them not only up-gradable from the troll unit but further, given them different weapons.

-You have all the heroes in the mod I could ask for, I seriously cannot think of any that would be useful off the top of my head.

-Cool elite units like Castellens, honestly I dont know where their from, I assume the books? But I love having a trio of large, heavily armored ring wraiths (essentially) cutting through the enemy. 

Issues I have at the moment


So those are some of my favorite points on mordor, but here are my issues;


-Mordor has become almost too spammy, I know that is kind of the point and you may think its odd how I considered the number of orcs which are great for spam as one of my most loved points of the mod but I feel its too easy to just create an army of orcs without must need for change. I essentially feel like at the moment that my options for competitive play at least are just down to this one trait of mordor.

-As per the above point, trolls are too expensive, over 1000 for the cage, then 800+ on top of that unless you invest heavily in slaughter pens (co-signing yourself to troll production, obvious to the opponent)  and lets face it, trolls are too weak at the moment for such a cost. Every time I build them archers/pikemen which are not especially expensive can run them down quite easily.

-Heroes are too weak. Now this is coming from someone who also players the Battles for the Third age mod, which is geared up for strong heroes but all the same, the first thing I hear without fail during every major battle is "X hero has died" or "Sauron is in danger",  I always thought the key to BFME in general and one of the major facets in lord of the rings in lore, books or movie form is that the heroes are major players beyond anything else and the hordes of orcs or men were necessary but were laid low in the face of a strong hero.  In Edain many of their spells and mechanics are interesting but they do not last long enough to use them.

-The other Orc types that I love so much are inaccessible until their use is limited. For example, why pay between 2 and 3000 and

fight over a building plot which are usually in the centre of the map and hard to capture against a good opponent when besides the elite units, the new orcs are barely better than regular orcs? I feel like strategically its a tall order.


My suggestions


Ok so here is what I think could potentially make Mordor more fun to play, each section is in a spoiler tag so your not faced with all the walls of text for each section/idea;


Sauron


My issue as I said above is Sauron is too weak, he has low damage potential, and costs a fair amount to level. I think to get him to level 10, it costs between 10-20k resources which is in my opinion a bit crazy. Yes I realize a lot of the things that level him are beneficial in other ways but you do not get much for the levels either, level 3 is probably his most powerful ability to buff your army and improve your unit roster but after that? the extra thousands to level him are unnecessary and unless you are playing against an easy opponent and are just messing about keeping track of doing things and spending money just to level him has little incentive.

Change his powers

First, I suggest adding some passives that buff your army.  Sauron is the major force behind Mordor in middle earth, he is a deity to the orcs so why does he not boost them considerably from his presence?  I say give him a scaling leadership trait that affects ALL minions on the map by a percentage. I am sure your better at balancing and number crunching than I am but heres the general idea;


--- Zitat ---Level 1,  Slaves of his will;  +5% to health and damage to all  player units on the map.  +5% per level up to a maximum of 50% boost.
--- Ende Zitat ---

Kind of like how the Nazgul benefit from their lord it makes sense to me that the Orcs become ever more ferocious, morale boosted and the like the stronger their master gets. Especially when he is leading them on the field of battle.  Like I said number crunching is probably something the Edain team could change around, 50% may be too much or too little but enough of a reason to value Sauron and leveling him for so much cost.His level 1-3 powers should remain the same, since that is perfectly awesome.  Being able to go up to and choose what buildings to enhance for a bonus is great as is the teleportation, because clearly he is a spirit being in the necromancer form


At level 4 and after however things go awry and leveling Sauron is both a pointless and expensive process. You can reach level 3/4 easily by building tons of orcs naturally, maybe building a Nazgal, a unit from Cirth ungol, getting an Orc to level 5 etc. This is all achievable by natural play but to get him higher than that and push towards level 10 you need to built a morgal/dol guldur fortress which is a whopping 2-3k cut out of your cash flow, takes a long time to build and on top of that elite units.  Even worse, you need to spend thousands on all the Nazgal, the mouth of Sauron, another fortress to get the "all 9 Nazgal" one...

This all seems too much for me after level 4, so essentially I propose give him an upgrade at level 5 OR 6 which is worth getting.


--- Zitat ---Level 5,  Unveil power;  Sauron unveils his presence and power as the Dark Lord, his attack, health and defense increase dramatically.
--- Ende Zitat ---



The idea I had behind this is if level 1-4 Sauron is the Necromancer in hiding, building his power, calling his Nazgal etc, then level 5, when he unveils it is like when he shows himself clearly to Gandalf, Galadriel etc in battles of the five armies. This power turns him from a passive presence to a powerful force, and if you consider its likely to cost both time and resources, beyond the 1000 tag which is relatively high on Sauron to get to level 5 or 6 it would be a nice boost to have Sauron actually become a force on

the battlefield before getting the 15 point Palantir power or finding the one ring.


Sauron as unveiled Dark Lord

His appearance is similar to the dark shadow only he gets a flowing red outline, kind of like when he shows himself to Gandalf in the Desolation of Smaug.  His attack changes into two switchable versions, a long range power similar to his level 1-4 version, a stream of dark shadow but does significantly more damage, enough to quite quickly kill single unit hordes.  His other attack would be a melee which you can switch to, this does AoE around Sauron with shockwaves of force or energy, a lot like Wizard blast.  Saurons health and armour should be on par with some of the higher level heroes in the game, being able to last longer in battle than most.


Once Sauron is level 5/6 (whatever seems most fair) the player selects "unveil power" from Saurons ability ring and over a period of about one minute, Sauron ascends to his higher form.  This makes it unwise to try and do this in the middle of the enemy.

Here is his list of abilities;


--- Zitat ---Powers he gained during levels 1-4 are the same, teleportation, slaves of will and his influence on structures


Level 5, switch attacks; switch between a long range dark blast good again single hordes at long range or damaging single elite targets like heroes or a AoE melee attack that blasts all nearby foes away like a wizard blast. Does less damage than the first attack and has only close range but is enough to deal with swarming from hordes of basic infantry

Level 6 Darkness Shroud- conceals Sauron and all units (not buildings) within a radius slightly greater than a Castle plot.  Units cannot be seen unless an enemy unit is within several meters or methods of detection are used. Sauron himself cannot move or attack or use other powers during this power. Duration; until toggled off, Recharge; 1 minute after being toggled off

Level 7 Empower Servant- Targets Any Ring wraith or the mouth of Sauron, grants Ring wraiths the "ring seeker" trait that increases that vision radius and stealth detection considerably. The target is fully healed and gains a significant boost (100%) to damage, armour, health and experience gain for 60 seconds.  Recharge 3 minutes

Level 9 Saurons Gaze- Sauron focuses his power on a single target Hero, deactivating their leadership and leaving them unable to use powers or abilities for 1 minute. The hero is stunned for 10 seconds. Recharge 4 minutes 

Level 10 Mealstrom of Sorcery. This power is based on the dark cloud I have seen in some trailers or old versions of Edain that periodically dealt heavy damage to units passing through. Only the idea behind this ability is it creates a dark cloud of energy on the field of battle that has an area/radius equal to Gandalfs word of power. Units that enter the cloud take a lot of magical damage over time, quickly killing hordes and each unit killed becomes a wraith with limited time on it. Recharge 10 minutes 
--- Ende Zitat ---


As you see, this Sauron is powerful and before you say some of his later abilities seem overpowered I have considered and anyone should consider it can cost upwards of tens of thousands to get Sauron to level 10 and a huge amount of time.  I also thought it would be fun to use the concealing magic we see in the hobbit that he uses to hide his army which could create unique tactics.


Sauron as the Lord of the rings


I feel like Sauron is a bit weak when he gets the one ring, and of course, with the above change I have to buff his ring form as well otherwise there would be no point in using him.  My idea of a Ring version of sauron would lose his ranged attack but I think his
current mace swings should be much faster, at least as fast as other hero attacks.  With its high damage and AoE it would be worthy of a Ring hero, maybe boost its damage so it can at least kill regular unupgraded hordes and cavalry in single strikes.


Sauron has all powers previously with the exception of his teleportation and darkness shroud, if I have not mentioned the power below such as Dark will and terrifying gaze its because I think they should remain with the character unchanged



--- Zitat ---
Level 7- Power of the Maiar same as currently in-game.

Level 8- The Shadow comes For 3 minutes the entire map goes dark and all the players units gain 50% increased speed both in movement and have fear immunity.  This is map wide. Some awsome audio can play of Sauren speaking like when Pipin picks up the palantir Recharge 10 minutes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3rczsUcaXU  this sort of voice can be heard across the map by all players. Would be awsome and scary.

Level 9- subjucation of the master ring this spell replaces the previous Saurons gaze and is essentially more powerful version. Instead of the previous effects it takes control of an enemy hero. Allowing the player to use said hero and its abilities for 1 minute. Recharge 10 minutes

Level 10- Fire wave replaced with mealstrom of sorcery. Only different from previous version it may do more damage/have a wider range/wraiths last longer. 


Level 10- Call the Balrog-[/size] This power is self explanatory, the Balrog is called forth and heeds the lieutenant of its former master as the heir to Arda. it appears in a huge fiery corona, exploding outwards and burning to death low level infantry while causing great damage to others. It retains its usual abilities, flight, whip, fire breath etc Duration 1-2 minutes, Recharge 10-15 minutes 
--- Ende Zitat ---



I understand the Balrog is going to be a summon for the Goblins faction or Mistry mountains but I please beg to reconsider.  Goblins and what not have no real affiliation with the beast, if anything their just as terrified of it as men, if not more so. Meanwhile Sauron is likely the only being in middle earth who may be able to call upon its power and influence it in some way, especially when he has the one ring. It was also a typical Mordor unit in the old games.

Conclusion;

This would without a doubt take Sauron who at the moment is a relatively weak hero with a little side powers to becoming a main front line unit and true Dark lord. His power is spaced out still requiring leveling which equates to a lot of time and money invested by the player. This sauron in my idea is worth the tens of thousands he may cost to level up to 10. At the moment regardless of his level he is more or less useless beyond strengthening your wraiths and upgradeing your buildings with his influence which I think is not true to lore since he likes to get into the thick of things and should be the most powerful unit in mordors arsenal and at the very least extremely useful throughout.



This was already quite long so I will wait until later to post ideas on Orcs and trolls.



Orcs and improvements to them


So here are a few ideas on how I would like to see Orcs in upcoming versions, my issues are that there are so many different kinds of orcs from the different castles but the castles, Dol goldur, Morgal etc cost a huge amount. I feel like I am paying more for the fortress and the elite units/hero than I am for the Orcs within, but what if I just wanted to orcs? Or see more of the unique orcs?


Mordor barracks upgrade


One idea is that the Mordor barracks can be upgraded for a cost after Sauron has reached higher levels. Level 5 or so perhaps as an example. At this point you would select your Mordor barracks and upgrade it from the command card to either a morgal or dol guldur barracks. Essentially giving you access to the Orc units (not elite or hero units) of the Fotress.

Again this adds more worth to Sauron gaining levels which is one thing I really want to see in Edain in the future in case you have not noticed  :D


Orc upgrades

I know what some people are going to say to this, "Orc spam is too powerful already", which is potentially true but from my own experience plus reading a lot of the comments on Mod database (where I follow the mods progress)  people come in two camps. Either orcs are swarming them with ease and its unfair, or their complaining their orcs are weak and getting hewn apart by fully upgraded Gondor/isengard units etc.

Regardless of which is true, both is unfair and in my opinion game breaking because the Mordor player should not have to just "spam" or die.  it reduces the options of the player which is a shame considering the broad unit roster in Edain.

My ideas are the following;-

-Add heavy armor/forged blades to mordor, bought from the arsenal (maybe after Sauron has influenced it?) that regular orcs can pick up for a buff, making them a bit more of a match for upgraded units from other factions. This keeps the mid-late game interesting for mordor. At the moment I would like to consider trolls but as I said before, their expensive and weak comparative to their price unless you upgrade and invest heavily into them.


-The above idea for morgul/dol guldur Orc barracks upgrades would likely cover this problem. The enhanced orcs from either barracks with their improved armour/poison would keep orcs in the game later AND give the player a choice of interesting orc units as well.

-Boost Orc buffs from heroes, like Gothmog. Even if you have to reduce his damage into the ground, please amp his health up and maybe make his bonus a bit stronger to make orcs more endurant late game. Increase its range so larger orc hordes benefit.

-Make the Overseers less micro orientated. At the moment you have to muck around bringing the overseer to each horde to improve it, would it really be a big deal if they auto upgraded with Overseers once you bought the upgrade?  or if they were purchased per unit just like most unit enhancements?

Conclusion

Right now, Orcs are varied but that variation is only seen if specific, very expensive buildings are purchased. I would love to see more of these orcs during the game.  I want to make them more accessible which at the same time will keep orcs stronger mid-late game once upgrades are rolling out. If mordor is going to spam orcs, at least let it be the variety we have access to


Mini side point on the camp built fortresses


So these things, their expensive for a reason.  My alternative to the above thing on orcs is maybe instead of having up-gradable barracks, its the fortresses you upgrade.  For example, the fortress could cost 1200-1500, and for that price you get all your orcs and what not plus a powerful defensive structure.  however you do not get the hero or the elite unit until you get an upgrade and/or Sauron is a higher level.  So an extra 1000 resources will enhance the fortress with the elite units and hero. Lets face it, in a regular game between two matched opponents you dont have 3k resources to throw around, with this approach players like me who want to play wtih different orcs in my army without paying 2-3k can do that, without affecting the overall cost of access to elite units.


Additional thoughts

These fortresses could be more unique. The idea I had for Sauron above, "Darkness Shroud" could be instead attributed to the fortress of Dolguldar just like in the movie. minas morgul could have the beacon of sorcery from the return of the king with the big green plume of energy giving a buff to nearby units or map wide or something.  I think the mod Battles of the Third age had something like it.  This would add to their uniqueness and flavour.

TROLLS


Who does not love trolls? They have been once of my favorite creatures since I saw the trilogy. The very idea of a vast, muscular monstrosity, especially in armour like the those breaking through into Minas Tirith are especially cool. But in Edain their Expensive, I am not the only one sad about this and relatively weak for their cost. If they were cheaper then they would gain strength in my eyes, or if they gained health/armour they would become better but overall i want cheaper trolls please! I beg!

The way the balance is at the moment their barely harder to kill than cavalry, if not easier since their big, single targets.  Early mordor with its Orc spam has little need to pay for trolls at the moment and little reason since the opponents pikemen/archers will likely bring it down in short order. Just build a far cheaper mordor barracks for extra orc spam instead right?

This is sad, because trolls are cool. Make the cage and the unit itself cheaper in my opinion. Maybe let it rip trees again as well, so it has a bit more aoe.

TiberiusOgden:
Exhaustive analysis.  :)
I need some time to absorption your thoughts.
But I am looking forward to another parts!  :P

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:
Well, that is a wall of text. I will try and give my thoughts on as many of your ideas as possible^^


--- Zitat von: DarkestMaiar am  5. Apr 2015, 20:24 ---As per the above point, trolls are too expensive, over 1000 for the cage, then 800+ on top of that [...]

--- Ende Zitat ---
That point is up for discussion and I might even agree with you, but there is a balance subforum for that purpose ;)

--- Zitat von: DarkestMaiar am  5. Apr 2015, 20:24 ---Heroes are too weak.

--- Ende Zitat ---
The base stats of all heroes have been nerfed in 4.0, since the team wanted to get away from the one-man-armies they used be. They are now even more designed for specific roles and they rely on their abilities to fulfill that role. You can always play the legendary heroes gamemode, though ;)

--- Zitat von: DarkestMaiar am  5. Apr 2015, 20:24 ---For example, why pay between 2 and 3000 and fight over a building plot which are usually in the centre of the map and hard to capture against a good opponent when besides the elite units, the new orcs are barely better than regular orcs?

--- Ende Zitat ---
Aside from leveling up Sauron and creating the strongest heroes available to Mordor (if you don't count Gorthaur) and giving access to elite units, you get much stronger orcs. Dol Guldur's poison works wonders, and Minas Morgul's units are resistant to fear, which can be incredibly important. On top of that, don't forget that it gives you an easy to defend building that can recruit free orcs and therefore further increses the power of your spam, since more barracks = more pressure for the enemy.


--- Zitat von: DarkestMaiar am  5. Apr 2015, 20:24 ---My issue as I said above is Sauron is too weak, he has low damage potential, and costs a fair amount to level. I think to get him to level 10, it costs between 10-20k resources which is in my opinion a bit crazy.

--- Ende Zitat ---
I really don't get why people think Sauron is too weak^^
Even as a fighter he is cheap to get and does some pretty decent damage to regular infantry. Just put him behind your meatshield and he should be fine. Also you always have the get-out-of-jail-card which is his teleport.
But then, on top of that, you get the most powerful ability in the entire game, which he unlocks at level three. Free bannercarriers for everything? Check. Upgrades for trolls? Check. Upgrades for Harad and Rhun reinforcements? Check. All trolls get to level two? Check. I don't even know how much it does, but the buffs are just crazy. And Mordor needs Sauron to progress to the most powerful stuff it has, which is the point of his design, he supports the entire faction.

You say, 10-20k is too much to level him to 10? Mordor's economy is pretty strong atm because of the free orcs. Therefore you have lots and lots of money to spend on heroes or an outpost, if you don't want a big number of trolls. As for completing tasks, let's see. Recruiting a nazgul, recruiting the Mouth of Sauron, getting an outpost, getting an army of 20 orc-units, getting a orc-unit to lvl 5... you do all of those things anyway, unless you try some really crazy strategy. And those are just the tasks I can think off the top of my head! Getting him to lvl 10 might be tricky, but it should be tricky to get any hero to lvl 10, if you ask me ;)

Well, I just have to say no to that. Gothmog is the hero to directly support your orc army, Sauron does his thing in a different way, as explained above. Also, op as fuck^^
Well, unfortunately, no to that as well^^
Sauron is not supposed to be a force on the battlefield, although he can do some work. In the entire war of the ring, he chilled pretty hard in Barad Dur and build up his armies (Sauron's influence, hint hint). He had the other heroes of Mordor do the dirty battlefield work. And as I mentioned way earlier, it wouldn't fit his role as a supporter to be killing infantry left and right like Saruman and Gandalf do.
I like that one. It looks to strong atm, but apart from balance, it looks pretty interesting and unique and also has some tactical value.
That already is a pretty unique trait of the witchking and I really like it there. The stun is too much anyway.
No, just no. Although his lvl 10 ability might be a bit weak right now, it is friggin awesome, why would you want to change that?^^

That's it for now, might comment on the other stuff later. Phew, this took quite some time [ugly]

DarkestMaiar:
Thank you for replying guys. 


--- Zitat --- since the team wanted to get away from the one-man-armies they used be.
--- Ende Zitat ---

Aww, but I love one man hero armies. Surely I am not the only one who thinks that is cool? Now its just thousand orc armies, which although more true to the films and probably the books to some degree (the heroes were still pretty super) becomes repetitive and simple.


--- Zitat ---giving access to elite units, you get much stronger orcs. Dol Guldur's poison works wonders, and Minas Morgul's units are resistant to fear, which can be incredibly important.
--- Ende Zitat ---

Dont get me wrong, i like all those things but for over 2000, not to mention the cost in units to get the plot in the first place since you can be sure your enemy is trying to get it too? For 2-3000 resources you can build far more barracks whose orcs although not as good can be called up earlier than your likely to get the camp plot (unless your playing epic battle or something with 4k resources). 


--- Zitat ---Even as a fighter he is cheap to get and does some pretty decent damage to regular infantry
--- Ende Zitat ---

I have not seen this to be honest, he can hurt them but his interval of attack seems slow and the damage is...meh. I mean the reason why people think Sauron is weak is because he is arguably the most powerful being in middle earth yet you cannot feel that when you use him in the game, because all you see is a guy getting horded by a handfull of infantry. Sure you can escape with teleport but thats not the point, he should not have to against such odds imo.


--- Zitat ---But then, on top of that, you get the most powerful ability in the entire game,
--- Ende Zitat ---


--- Zitat ---Getting him to lvl 10 might be tricky, but it should be tricky to get any hero to lvl 10, if you ask me
--- Ende Zitat ---

I put these two together for a reason, it should be tricky to get a hero to lvl 10 because at lvl 10 it should be powerful but Sauron is weak unless you have unlocked his ancient power OR acquired the ring, which are purely situational.  The necromancer himself however has one pitifully weak ability at level 10 which is hardly worth acquiring.  You said it yourself he gets the best ability at level 3, why bother any more than that?


--- Zitat --- In the entire war of the ring, he chilled pretty hard in Barad Dur and build up his armies
--- Ende Zitat ---

Ah true but in Edain Sauron is either the Necromancer, and he did not, at least as far as the movies go just sit down, he crushed Gandalf and if it was not for Galadriel would likely have layed low his saviours. Point being Necromancer Sauron does "some" work, more than he does in Edain at the moment.


--- Zitat ---it wouldn't fit his role as a supporter
--- Ende Zitat ---

The problem I have with this is I am not convinced hes much of a supporter at the moment. Apart from ability 3, the rest of his powers seem rather pointless.  If the only point of using Sauron as a unit is to give the Nazgal a global exp scale then you could have that without the unit as a passive for mordor anyway surely?  Then have the "influence of sauron" as an ability activated from the palantir.  Thats how pointless Sauron himself feels, the unit itself does not feel like he can do anything on the battlefield, just keep him in your base safe while you wait for ability 3 to cooldown.....

Its just not satisfying imo for such a grand hero.


--- Zitat ---No, just no. Although his lvl 10 ability might be a bit weak right now, it is friggin awesome, why would you want to change that?^^
--- Ende Zitat ---

Did you not like the shadowy sorcery cloud in Edain 3.8? It looked cool to me, the one in this video;

https://youtu.be/mTOFb9o5Wrg?t=429

Impeding Death, think it was in a submod. I mean, the fiery wave is just....weak, I used it several times in my plays in 4.0 and 4.1 and have yet to see it do much.  Sauron in that video is closer to the Sauron I would envision.  More powerful and more useful, even in necromancer form.

Elendils Cousin 3. Grades:

--- Zitat ---Now its just thousand orc armies, which although more true to the films and probably the books to some degree (the heroes were still pretty super) becomes repetitive and simple.
--- Ende Zitat ---
And playing with the same heroes over and over again is not repetitive and simple?  :o
If you think that Mordor plays out too boring, that is okay, i kinda feel the same way a little bit. Buffing heroes will not solve that though, the problem lies somewhere else.


--- Zitat ---You said it yourself he gets the best ability at level 3, why bother any more than that?
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, maybe because Sauron himself, the nazgul and the Mouth of Sauron unlock some pretty cool stuff and they are bound to Saurons level? Faramir's leadership is arguably his strongest ability, but you still continue leveling him up, right? ;)


--- Zitat ---Dont get me wrong, i like all those things but for over 2000, not to mention the cost in units to get the plot in the first place since you can be sure your enemy is trying to get it too? For 2-3000 resources you can build far more barracks whose orcs although not as good can be called up earlier than your likely to get the camp plot (unless your playing epic battle or something with 4k resources). 

--- Ende Zitat ---
Outpost and three barracks would be 2400 iirc. Not too big of a difference. I also don't get the argument with the enemy trying to get the outpost as well, since that is the point of the game. If you don't believe me that those special buildings are worth their price, aks somebody else - they will tell you the same thing.


--- Zitat ---Thats how pointless Sauron himself feels, the unit itself does not feel like he can do anything on the battlefield, just keep him in your base safe while you wait for ability 3 to cooldown.....
--- Ende Zitat ---
I keep Sauron with my troops all the time to support them with some ranged damage. He doesn't feel pointless at all. If you don't do that you are just missing out on something and I can't help you^^


--- Zitat ---Did you not like the shadowy sorcery cloud in Edain 3.8? It looked cool to me, the one in this video
--- Ende Zitat ---
That is not Edain 3.8, that is the hero submod. And although that ability is quite cool, it is ridiculously op. You can cover the entire battlefield with that dark space so that literally everything your enemy gets dies immediately. And I still prefer the new ability.


--- Zitat ---I mean, the fiery wave is just....weak, I used it several times in my plays in 4.0 and 4.1 and have yet to see it do much.
--- Ende Zitat ---
Well, if you had read my response carefully...
--- Zitat von: DarkestMaiar am  6. Apr 2015, 01:17 ---
--- Zitat ---No, just no. Although his lvl 10 ability might be a bit weak right now, it is friggin awesome, why would you want to change that?^^
--- Ende Zitat ---

--- Ende Zitat ---



--- Zitat ---Ah true but in Edain Sauron is either the Necromancer, and he did not, at least as far as the movies go just sit down, he crushed Gandalf and if it was not for Galadriel would likely have layed low his saviours. Point being Necromancer Sauron does "some" work, more than he does in Edain at the moment.
--- Ende Zitat ---
That fightscene is just Peter Jacksons imagination. He did not beat up Gandalf at all, he ran away. gg no re

Navigation

[0] Themen-Index

[#] Nächste Seite