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Who is the third most powerful being in the Middle - earth?

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Walküre:

--- Zitat von: Adamin am 23. Jul 2015, 23:52 ---


--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 23. Jul 2015, 10:58 ---[...] were completely untainted (also due to her fundamental usage of Nenya), until she decided to resist the temptation of the Ultimate Power and accept her obligated return to Aman.

--- Ende Zitat ---

What?

So your saying Galadriel newer wanted to return to Aman and just did so, because it was obliged to, because "every elf was doing it"? I don't think so. It looks to me that Galadriel knew she was fighting an uphill battle. She had to know that Lórien was only the heart of elvendom because of Nenya, and that Nenya (as well as Lórien) would fade after the destruction of the One Ring.

Again in her own song Galadriel raises the question if she would be accepted in the west again (because of the curse of the Noldor), as if she was thinking very hard about it:


--- Zitat ---O Lorien! The Winter comes, the bare and leafless Day;
The leaves are falling in the stream, the River flows away.
O Lorien! Too long I have dwelt upon this Hither Shore
And in a fading crown have twined the golden elanor.
But if of ships I now should sing, what ship would come to me,
What ship would bear me ever back across so wide a Sea?
--- Ende Zitat ---
- The Fellowship of the Ring: Chapter 8 Farewell to Lorien -

--- Ende Zitat ---

I'm sorry Adamin, this is something you wrongly inferred from my words.

The relationship between Galadriel and her land, and the role of Nenya in the 'enchantment' and safety of the realm are facts that I always kept on mentioning in my previous long comments; and I would never question such a pivotal and fundamental fact  :)

Her return is 'obligated' because it's her fate and an essential path of her life as a royal High Elf from Valinor, who witnessed the Splendour of the Two Trees.
The initial Perfection of the World was inevitably marred and corrupted by the powers of Melkor/Morgoth, who used Arda (except obviously Aman) as his own personal One Ring to spread his will and evil essence; and condemned it to an ineluctable destiny of decay and corruption, something that the Three Rings momentarily slowed and stopped.
The fate of the Elves was thus already decided (even before their Awakening in Arda), and that's why the Valar wisely decided to invite the Eldar to Valinor and always persuaded to sail towards it or return; because Valinor is the only place in which the Elves can live fully according to their nature of immortal beings, without fearing corruption or decay, since Valinor was made by Immortal Beings and made immortal by them.

Galadriel obviously knows this really well and her longing for the Undying Lands is always vivid, but she is divided and worried, because, as she tells Frodo in FOTR (book), the Love of the Eldar for their creations is deep as the depth of the Sea and she doesn't want to leave her realm and condemn it to vanish along the Ages of the World; but she is also well aware that, whether Sauron regains the One Ring or the One Ring is destroyed, her realm and her powers are doomed to fade forever and her people become rustic inhabitants of darkened woods.
That's why she also personally tells Frodo that she wishes that the One Ring had never been created, and thus letting the Three Rings to allow the Elves to stay in the World for other centuries without diminishing.

Her return to Aman is obligated by these facts, the sad story of corruption, decay and disenchantment of Arda, that goes from the initial titanic wars between the Valar and Melkor, to the betrayal of Sauron with the creation of the One Ring.

Adamin:
Oh okay then. Sorry for that then. I guess we agree on that one. :)

Walküre:
Ok, I finally managed to find the famous passage/line of Haldir, while he is escorting the Fellowship to Caras Galadhon through the forests of Lothlórien  :)
As you will notice, one of the most impressive things is the linear and yet hermetic usage of words of Tolkien, that here, instead of long and accurate descriptions of places and realms, chooses very significant few words full of fundamental meanings and references.

Here are the exact words of Haldir (Tolkien)  8-)


--- Zitat ---Frodo looked and saw, still at some distance, a hill of many mighty trees, or a city of green towers: which it was he could not tell. Out of it, it seemed to him that the power and light came that held all the land in sway. He longed suddenly to fly like a bird to rest in the green city. Then he looked eastward and saw all the land of Lórien running down to the pale gleam of Anduin, the Great River. He lifted his eyes across the river and all the light went out, and he was back again in the world he knew. Beyond the river the land appeared flat and empty, formless and vague, until far away it rose again like a wall, dark and drear. The sun that lay on Lothlórien had no power to enlighten the shadow of that distant height.
`There lies the fastness of Southern Mirkwood,' said Haldir. `It is clad in a forest of dark fir, where the trees strive one against another and their branches rot and wither. In the midst upon a stony height stands Dol Guldur, where long the hidden Enemy had his dwelling. We fear that now it is inhabited again, and with power sevenfold. A black cloud lies often over it of late. In this high place you may see the two powers that are opposed one to another; and ever they strive now in thought, but whereas the light perceives the very heart of the darkness, its own secret has not been discovered. Not yet.' He turned and climbed swiftly down, and they followed him.
--- Ende Zitat ---

A very important and meaningful comparison, yet very direct and intuitive, also because it comes from the mouth of a recently-introduced character like Haldir is in this chapter.

The Darkness of Dol Guldur (where it is said that the Evil has returned eight times stronger) poisoned all its surrounding area, making the trees wither, a perennial dark Sky be upon the fortress and everything rot; a Darkness that can't even be pierced by the Light of the Golden Wood.

Lothlórien is, instead, always protected by its enchantment, caused by the Magic of Galadriel and Nenya, always preserving its holy aura among the Shadows of the World in the Third Age and, thus, creating a sacred place where the Light, the Bliss and the Joy have never been darkened by any kind of malicious will; the Ring of Water also almost completely removes the Action of Time in the realm, releasing all the hearts of its inhabitants by the sorrows of the decaying Middle Earth, making everyone (especially the strangers) feel like in a sort of timeless dream, or in a beautiful 'song' (as Sam had previously stated).
Galadriel will later personally 'admit/confess' to Frodo that the courage, the chants among the trees and the bows of the brave people of Lothlórien are clearly not enough to fend off the evil from her realm and preserve it; she thus finally shows Nenya openly to Frodo and calls it the 'Secret' of the Safety and Protection of the Golden Wood that Sauron always wanted to discover and starts to suspect.
But the fundamental passage of Haldir's line is his reference to the two sensational Powers (Galadriel and Sauron) that continuously fight each other in an eternal 'telepathic' battle (fact that Galadriel will admit as well later) to discover each other's intentions and plans, being both respectively the embodiment of Light and Darkness; the Light succeeds in piercing the Darkness and revealing its evil purposes, while the Darkness doesn't  :)

Having stated these pivotal facts, returning to the matter of this thread, I would say that Gandalf the White could have never resembled or replicated what Galadriel did with her powers: embalming a vast realm with her powers and Ring, protecting it for more than a millennium from any form of evil and making it a legendary place even for the very Wood Elves; we must also consider that her more-than-8000-year magical Knowledge and Strength, native of the Blessed Lands beyond the Sea and of the legendary and forgotten times of the Two Trees, is quite an unmatchable trait of her, that none of the other Elves or Istari could reach  8-)
And I would also say that Sauron and Galadriel are the only ones in Middle Earth (also Elrond and the Witch-king on a minor scale) capable of modifying so deeply the realms in which the live in with their Magic and Essence, and manipulate so greatly the Weather (Nature) of the World according to their will (maximum display of Magic in Tolkien's Universe), the former by creating an eternal dark Sky of ashes upon Mordor and the latter preserving a neverending calm and sunny Sky upon the Golden Wood.
Gandalf the White isn't clearly able to accomplish such great magical abilities on a very large scale.

Of course one could say that the powers of Gandalf the White are much more 'direct' and destructive, and that he has had a far more active and important role than Galadriel in the Fall of Sauron, given his Destiny of a guide for the Free People, and in the War of the Ring in general (leading the Defence of Minas Tirith and the confrontation with the Witch-king); he also, as Gandalf the White, is more closed to its essence and spirit of Olórin the Maia than he had previously ever been (still always remaining an Istar).

In the end, we could say that both of them, Galadriel and Gandalf the White, have powers that the other doesn't have, and a different role; Gandalf the White is able to directly use his powers for the Free People of Middle Earth, while Galadriel has certainly more authority as an extremely old and powerful High Elf and Guardian, since she established herself the White Council and had the power and authority to indicate Gandalf as its leader, if not the Grey Wizard had not refused her offer.

So, as you wrote, Tiberius, they both well deserve the second place in the poll  :)


P.S. I hope we can agree on that, Adamin  :P

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