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Autor Thema: The Hobbit Trilogy  (Gelesen 123122 mal)

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #165 am: 27. Aug 2015, 11:08 »
Agree with you!I ahve exaggarated a bit!
So I suggest to agree that we dissagree and make peace!As you said we all had valid point from fact point of view and lest say we are like 50/50 on how much that thing is possible!I never wished to star a War with you or anyone here I jsute backed my opinon with facts tring to prove it thats all! :)
I hope we have peace on the matter!Movies wer not al that bad and bad at the same time! :D
P.S. really as Walkure said who would ahve thought that a 2-3 sec scene with 1 Weapon coudlcreate such a war oof opinons :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

korner

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #166 am: 27. Aug 2015, 11:16 »
i think dain has a point  the fact that you do not like it doesnt make it unbelieveable,inconviniet or impossible and you were trying to convince poeple that this is stupid and not lorish

And you are trying to convince people the other direction. That doesn´t make anyone better or worse then the other.

I tried to prove that the Ballsita and thier Ammo are possible to some degree and not so unrealistic!I tried to exaplin it and prove it not Covnince them to like the Movie or the Scene!!
There is a difference in those you know!Proving and tryig to convince! :) Something may be proven that is possible but that doesnt make you to like it more! :)
The use of proving something, is to convince others of your opinion. So if you tried to prove that the ammunition is relistic, you tried to convince me and others of taking it as realistic.

You can say whatever you want: you do the same like me or Gnomi, just the other way round.

Can you show me any part of any of my posts, where I tried to convince people to dislike the movie?? No you won´t, because I never did.
I only expressed my discontent about (in MY opinion) increase of unneccessary special effect scenes and features on the one hand, and the lack of character and story development in the movie on the other hand.
That´s my opinion and it will stay the same no matter whatever you say.
I do accept your opinion that you like those features, but please respect my opinion or Gnomis as well.



EDIT:

Agree with you!I ahve exaggarated a bit!
So I suggest to agree that we dissagree and make peace!As you said we all had valid point from fact point of view and lest say we are like 50/50 on how much that thing is possible!I never wished to star a War with you or anyone here I jsute backed my opinon with facts tring to prove it thats all! :)
I hope we have peace on the matter!Movies wer not al that bad and bad at the same time! :D
P.S. really as Walkure said who would ahve thought that a 2-3 sec scene with 1 Weapon coudlcreate such a war oof opinons :D

+1

I think we have discussed this matter now for already too long.

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #167 am: 27. Aug 2015, 11:28 »
I do respect yours and Gnomis opinion! :) And as I said proving something doesn't it make good or make you like it! :)
But now enough with that,as I said lets agree that neither side can aboslutely prove that is like 100% possible or not,so we may go with a tie! XD
And I do hope that we will see more character development but I think the time for that is not in Battle but with all rather pointless scenes and characters like Alfrid,Hilda and here faminist followers trying to fight Special war bred Orcs(and not to mention succeding :D ) and even the extra Family of Bard and all the time spended on them,as well as 30 min of Legolas( I am fine with him being in the Movie but he should have played smaller role more modest one) and all this wasted while so much better characters could ahve been developed and more battle showed after its title is The Battle of the Five Armies! :)
P.S. I hope we will see some Normal Arrows for those Ballistas and how they were brought on the battlefield! :)
Greetings! :)
« Letzte Änderung: 27. Aug 2015, 11:33 von LordDainIronfoot »
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

korner

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #168 am: 27. Aug 2015, 11:47 »
Agree. Even in Battles they should have set different focus.

One example: The dwarven Phalanx against the charging orks.

When I saw the dwarves building up the Phalanx I thought "yeah cool, great thing!". But then come those foolish suizide-elves jumping over that awesome phalanx, destroying all battle tactics for nothing, only to get one moment of "cool" Matrix-like move.
Wouldn´t it be more awesome to see masses of orcs crushing into the shieldwall, Orks dieing by the hundreds like flies and the dwarves holding ground against waves of enemies while the elves rain arrows on the orks from behind the shieldwall??
Why did they sacrifice this potentially epic battle only to get one more "cool" special effect? Elves don´t commit suicide by the hundreds in Tolkiens Middle Earth...
I nearly exploded from anger in the cinema...

Same like in first movie when the dwarves run from the Orks into that hidden cave and the Riders of Rivendell suddenly attack the Orks:
Couldn´t they shorten the scene where Radagast rides his chariott for several minutes over the fields by lets say 20 seconds so that we get time to actually show more than a glimpse on the Riders of Rivendell crushing the Orks?
Why don´t they show us those awesome Riders for more then 1-2 seconds??

This is the main thing I dislike about battle scenes in the Hobbit movies: they are all made with VERY short cuts (e.g. the escape out of Goblintown: you see heads being cut off Orks, but so quick you don´t see who did it, how he did it...).

Compared to the Lord of the Rings:
Battle scenes show 1 person for longer time, you can actually see what he is doing. For example Boromirs last stand, Aragorn against Mollock, Aragorn against Lurtz and so on.

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #169 am: 27. Aug 2015, 12:21 »
I agree on all of it! :)
It would have been much cooler to show the teamwork between the Dwarves and Elves and how combined they are unstopable!The Orcs should have crushed in the Shield Wall like waves in the rocks while the Elves would ahve drowned them in volleys of Arrows and only then all should ahve joined int close combat!Although a cool moment with the Evles jumping it wasnt so good as it all could have been!
And most certainly more important characters should have got time like Thradnuil and Dain may be fighting against a Troll that just headbutting Orcs with his forehead :D And Thradnuil taking out one as well or Wargs!!And Tohrin Company Dwalin,Balin and Fili and Kili should ahve get much more screen time in Battle as the best Warriors ain Thorins Comapny but no we all had to see the struggle of Alfrid the Useless and Hilda the Faminst and Bard the loving Father!!
I really have big hopes in that EE and I pray that PJ will not dissapoint me! :(
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #170 am: 28. Aug 2015, 02:00 »
Ok, I think I will leave a kind of last comment/consideration as well, about what we have discussed so far  :)

Well, for me this is the most interesting part about lord of the rings. There is nearly nothing illogical in it and this is the thing which makes lotr different to most of nowerdays fantasy stories.
If you look at the maps: Everything fits perfectly and if you look at the time they use for wandering through middleearth:
It's realistic. (not like the 'teleport to Gundabad and back' of the third movie)
Additionally all the names of rivery, mountains and so on are also always fitting.

But on the other hand... perhaps it's just that we germans are unfunny and can't just enjoy such things without thinking about engineering... :D


Gnomi, I never wrote or implied that the whole Universe of Tolkien might be totally unrealistic or illogical; it's the exact opposite thing  :)
But, given that (as you have rightly exposed above) the Tolkien's Legendarium is a realistic (very realistic) representation of a fictional World (a kind of diverse and complicated Reality very similar to ours, and governed by similar natural laws), it's still not REAL.
And thus, as a fictional Universe, it can't be approached 100% the same way we approach our Reality, especially with very specific and holistic scientific reasonings.

Let's say that those scientific reasonings could be used to describe a lot of essential and basic things of Arda, but, in the end, they would naturally fail to explain everything, eventually failing to give an useful and precise answer to the various questions and 'mysteries' that are deeply part of Eä (the material and physical Universe).
The high and impressive lifelikeness of Arda is perfectly integrated with its 'Magical Nature', which is, as we conveyed in our previous comments, the sum of all the unknown and natural powers and knowledges of superior (or just different) sentient beings (in this case, mainly Elves and Ainur), who shaped and modified the course of the events of the World and the World itself with their natural powers and actions.

That's why, as I referred to above, one could never really find a scientific and technical explanation (based on our standards) for the nature of the Two Trees of Valinor, the 'Immortality' of the Elves, the long lifespan of the Númenóreans and the Dwarves, and an enormous amount of other things...
What about, for example, the Great Cataclysm that changed the Shape of the World, the Corruption of the Elves into Orcs, the unknown Arts in the creation of the race of the Dragons, or the holy Magic which infuses Valimar and the whole Blessed Realm?
These things shouldn't (can't) be explained or approached with our scientific standards of Knowledge, because they would be suitable up to a certain point, and, then, would inevitably fail and made useless.
Furthermore, I don't think that it would be really fair, as someone wrote in the previous comments, dividing the 'world' of the Ainur and the Elves from the one of the Dwarves and Humans, inferring that the former is the real and only 'magical' one, and the latter is 'our' real Reality, in which we can easily explain everything with Science.
There is only one Arda (World), and, since it was created and shaped by the Ainur in the first place and, later, inhabited firstly by the Elves (among the Children of Ilúvatar), these two races belong to it as the Dwarves and the Humans, and their 'Magic' is a fundamental and indivisible part of it.

To conclude this long post (I'm sorry  :P), I really believe that, apart from the interesting and realistic traits of Arda and discussions about its foundations, there are things that must be necessarily accepted as they are, recognising our impossibility or very vague and imprecise capability of exhaustively explaining them.
As if we questioned what truly is the 'Free Will' of the Valar, and, consequently, why they do not have higher 'ambitions' of Power and always inevitably follow the Will and Authority of Eru as the only Truth, without questioning it (like the Angels towards God in Christianism).
Or trying to understand the real Nature of Ilúvatar (God), and how exactly it (Eru has no gender) is capable of having always existed in the Past (before the Ainur), always existing in the Present, and existing forever in the Future.

There are no possible scientific or technical answers to these matters.
Not because you are Germans, but because we are Humans, and thus can't understand things beyond our comprehension of Reality  ;)
I think that this pivotal theme is perfectly described and dealt with by Tolkien, even if it's present in very subtle ways.

The Tolkien's Writings are primarily Fantasy texts, and they had better remain so.

I hope we can agree on that  :)



Greetings  :)

ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #171 am: 5. Sep 2015, 00:49 »
Do you guys think maybe the Extended Edition of BOTFA may have a different prologue? Like, if Sauron interrogates Gandalf about the Three Rings, and then maybe shows him the vision with Smaug through the palantir (it would be my favorite scene  xD)? I, at least, think that this would make the movie a lot more interesting - it will add to the Dol Guldur subplot and make a more proper (imo) introduction into the movie at the same time :)
And the beginning of the movie is where I think more Dol Guldur scenes belong; I think they would fit more there. Do you think a new prologue like this is possible?

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Walküre

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #172 am: 5. Sep 2015, 01:09 »
Do you guys think maybe the Extended Edition of BOTFA may have a different prologue? Like, if Sauron interrogates Gandalf about the Three Rings, and then maybe shows him the vision with Smaug through the palantir (it would be my favorite scene  xD)? I, at least, think that this would make the movie a lot more interesting - it will add to the Dol Guldur subplot and make a more proper (imo) introduction into the movie at the same time :)
And the beginning of the movie is where I think more Dol Guldur scenes belong; I think they would fit more there. Do you think a new prologue like this is possible?


Well, I honestly think that it is very unlikely that we will see that scene, involving the Palantír and Smaug.

But, I also believe that it would be possible seeing Sauron interrogating Gandalf, if they are really willing to widen the role of the Three Rings and their powers.
The Three Rings have always been hidden from the malicious sight of Sauron since the Second Age; it is very likely that he's constantly and spasmodically trying to know something about them  :)


ThorinsNemesis

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #173 am: 5. Sep 2015, 09:50 »
Well, in any case, I hope Dol Guldur gets more scenes in the EE, it will be much more interesting than things like Alfrid  :)

"A darkness is coming... It will spread to every corner of the land!"

LordDainIronfoot

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #174 am: 5. Sep 2015, 10:41 »
Agree!Anything will be more interesting than Alfris or Hilda D
We need more.Galadriel vs Sauron,more Dain fighting,more Thranduil,coronation of Dain ,funeral of Thorin and a proper ending !!
If you ask me PJ can delete all Alfrid scenes! :D
"I will not stand down before any Elf,not least this Faithless Woodland Sprite,he wishesh nothing but ill upon my people...To Battle,to Battle Sons of Durin!!!..."

"You,think I give a dead dog about your threats you Pointy Ear Princess...Hear now lads,we are on...Let's give those bastards a good Hammering!!!..."

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #175 am: 5. Sep 2015, 12:05 »
agree

Fredius

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #176 am: 6. Sep 2015, 00:42 »
agree

Congrats man, to me you just became the member of the month, because almost all your posts I found on MU consist more or less of the words "I agree", and that really makes me laugh out loud :D :D :D

Gandalf The Gray

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #177 am: 6. Sep 2015, 00:44 »
i think its because some guys have a point but hay you cant put everything on the game

Fredius

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #178 am: 6. Sep 2015, 00:45 »
Nah don't worry about it my friend, it just cracks me up everytime I read those kind of posts from the same person, I have no idea why xD.

TiberiusOgden

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Re: The Hobbit Trilogy
« Antwort #179 am: 12. Sep 2015, 19:12 »
Some new footage of Bard and Smaug.