The Hobbit Trilogy

[Thartom]

But isnt it a bit unlogical that in DG should stand a Palantir? I mean, lets see, there are 7 stones in middle-earth at all:

- one is in Minas Morgul. Nobody was ever interested in removing then.
1
- one in in Minas Tirith. The governors would never give it away.
2
-one is in Isengard. Saruman wouldnt dare to give his artefact away neither.
3
- two are lost in the ocean when avendui and his ship sank.
5
- one stone has fallen into the Anduin when Osgiliath was destroyed.
6
- one was placed near Lindon and couldnt be used to communicate with the other Palantiri.
7
So there is no Stone with unknown place that could have been kept secret in Dol Guldur. It´s a bit like the idea of the duel between Gandalf and Sauron: In cinema it looks cool, but if you think twice about it, you cant combine the "old" middle-earth with almost no visible magic and with the "cinema" middle-earth where whole stone walls get destroyed in seconds.

[ThorinsNemesis]

I think the intent was that a palantir wasn't placed in Isengard in the movies, it was placed long ago in Dol Guldur. As its Numenorian inhabitants left the fortress they left behind the palantir (due to unknown reasons) and much later, after the Necromancer had come, after Gandalf sees the vision with Smaug, and after the White Council battle, Saruman would see the palantir and take it to Isengard. This theory would also give a more logical reason for Gandalf in FOTR to say 'The palantir is a dangerous tool'. I may be wrong, but I think this was PJ's intent.
And in any way, PJ has said that they always try to add more of Tolkien's locations in the movies and enhance their stories (thus the scene with Gundabad). I may be the only one but I like PJ's interpretation of Dol Guldur - a ruined, abandoned Numenorian fortress hosting a forgotten palantir. 

[Thartom]

I like the design of Dol Guldur as destroyed fortress too, but the point is it wasnt built by the numenorians. I think the elves, especially the "patriotic" Thranduil, would never have allowed a human´s fortress right there in the middle of their kingdom. And the elves could defend themselves very well even without help, why need a fortress there?
Moreover, even though Tranduil isnt that much interested in the world outside his forest, would he really leave such a treasure behind (and the elves would have found the Palantir in the abandoned ruins)? And think about this: Sauron broke even Saruman, prevents him from doing the same with a normal elf, when the king tried to use the stone?
Besides that the numenorians would never leave such a thing behind, they also didnt throw away the Orthanc-Stone when they had no use for it at the moment, they still protected it very well by sealing the tower where it was placed.

[ThorinsNemesis]

In the movies Dol Guldur is an old Numenorian fortress - PJ said it in the Appendices and Chronicles books.
My theory is that some Numenorians from Arnor accompanied the Elves (Thranduil and his father) on their journey east to Mirkwood. Dol Guldur still was Oropher's home, but it was probably built by the Numenoreans in movie lore.
And about the palantir, they didn't know Sauron could return. Probably the grief-stricken Thranduil just moved north, and Dol Guldur over time became abandoned, I don't think Thranduil would know the power of the palantir, or he wouldn't care about it, so it was left there.

[Walküre]

So there is no Stone with unknown place that could have been kept secret in Dol Guldur. It´s a bit like the idea of the duel between Gandalf and Sauron: In cinema it looks cool, but if you think twice about it, you cant combine the "old" middle-earth with almost no visible magic and with the "cinema" middle-earth where whole stone walls get destroyed in seconds.

Yes, if we strictly refer to the pure graphical outcome of that confrontation, many things could be said.

But, if you deeply look into the roots and pillars of Middle Earth and Arda, you will see that destructive displays of Magic from magical beings (as Tolkien intended Magic) are really evocative and significant displays of their inner superior Nature.
Gandalf, as an Istar, is nonetheless allowed to use directly and destructively Magic to defend himself from imminent and definitely beyond-normality threats.

These types of usage of Magic were naturally more frequent and common in the Elder Days and before, when the World was still 'Young' and not disenchanted and slowly corrupted like in the late Third Age; although, even in the Third Age, we can behold pure Magic in its destructive form, when our Galadriel, for example, made her last act of Power and threw down the Walls of Dol Guldur and purified it from the Memory of Sauron 

[Thartom]

But one more thing: Wasnt it said that Saruman got his Palantir when the actual governor gave him the keys to Orthanc? The movies may change some things for making the story more interesting, but I´m pretty sure that in Dol Guldur was never a Palantir.
And about the magic: First, i only thought about the late third age. Of course there would be by far more and better visual effects in a "correct" film about the first age (only think about the dragon-sizes-picture), but in the third age there was no need and therefore no use of spectacular magic.
Second, i am not sure if Galadriel really destroyed the ruins with sheer magic. Somebody else brought up the idea, that it was Galadriel and her followers who destroyed the remains of Sauron´s fortress.
And at last about the istari and their restrictions: Wouldnt that mean that the five isaris could have simply walked to Mordor and defeat the Dark Lord in a direct confrontation? I mean Sauron was even more than a "normal" thread, he was born of the mistakes the Valar made in handling Melkor.
And if they could use their power against higher beings, why didnt Saruman, Gandalf and Radagast stick together to kill the balrog? Because if i remember it right, the White Council was quite worried about that thing living in Moria.

[ThorinsNemesis]

Well PJ sometimes changes the lore quite a bit, it's not unreasonable to think a palantir could have been in Dol Guldur, at least in Jackson's interpretation.

[Thartom]

When i hear "PJs interpretation" i must think about Smaug´s death-scene, Alfred´s moments and a troll imitating a battering ram, but also about a melting dwarvenstatue, a company of dwarves singing at a fireplace and Gollum playing the riddle-game with Bilbo.
Let´s just say that some of PJs changes and ideas are good and some of them are bad. For me a Palantir in Dol Guldur sounds like a bad idea because it destroys the great feeling of uniqueness that the Orthanc-Palantir has.

[ThorinsNemesis]

^^Well everyone has their own opinions: you don't like the idea of a palantir in Dol Guldur, but I like it very much  .

[bookworm1138]

i like so far how the Edain team has striven to make a good balance between the books and the movies, while deferring to the books in points of contention. but this to me is kind of like the Aragorn vs. Sauron battle from Return of the King that was scraped and a troll (Mollok, or "the Sauron troll" as i call him) was placed over Sauron, or Arwen going to Helm's Deep with the Elven army.

i know that, in the Hobbit movies, PJ and Co. rewrote the War in the North and the fall of Minas Ithil in order to have their little "Nazgul tomb" scene. therefore, this could not be the Ithil-stone since, in PJ's world, the Nazgul never besieged Minas Ithil after the fall of Angmar: they just sat in their "tombs" twiddling their thumbs because they couldn't die and the screenwriter ruined the lore!.

however, saying that this is, by some miracle, the Ithil-stone that we see in this scene, it begs one to reason why the White Council didn't take it with them after driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur (we see in the Return of the King movie, when Aragorn looks into the palantir of Minas Anor, Sauron in his armored form holding the Ithil-stone).

in conclusion, this was a potentially problematic scene that PJ and Co. thankfully had the proper sense to abstain from...if only they had the foresight to be as tempered with the other problematic scenes that made it into the final cut

[ThorinsNemesis]

I don't think it is the Ithil stone; it's more logical if it was the Osgiliath palantir, since it was 'lost' at the time.
Also, in case you didn't see, the palantir is covered in dust and looks coloured like the statue itself, like an ornament. Maybe they didn't notice it, or didn't pay attention because their focus was taking Galadriel to Lorien?
Another possibility is that in the movies the Orthanc-stone wasn't located in Isengard at first - PJ may have placed it in Dol Guldur instead, and maybe after the White Council fight Saruman sees the palantir and takes it to Isengard.
In any case, I don't think this is a bad scene. It's actually a scene I wanted to see in DOS Extended Edition really bad.

[Adrigabbro]

Full scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHDjX-pzrD0
(thanks to AndyBrandy who posted it on moddb)

Reactions? 

[Walküre]

Full scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHDjX-pzrD0
(thanks to AndyBrandy who posted it on moddb)

Reactions? 

Very nice video, I have to say 

Galadriel has always been of a gentle yet fierce and resolute Nature.
So, the 'Cruelty' that she displayed against the Guardian Orc of Dol Guldur could be theoretically explained within the traits of her character.
The music rightly epically emphasises that moment 

[ThorinsNemesis]

Even though I love the new scenes, the movie still left no closure to the Men of Laketown and the Gems of Lasgalen.
However, according to the Appendices, they did shoot closure on both of these stories - do you remember that Bilbo was going to plant the acorn in Dale? They DID shoot that scene (and it's a really beautiful scene), and in it Bard also explains his intentions, what will happen to his people - they will rebuild Dale.
Also, right after Legolas stops Thranduil from killing Tauriel and says 'I will go with you', Gandalf appears and tells Thranduil 'These gems were not all your wife left you, my friend - she left you a son! Tell me which would she have you value more?', and Thranduil looks up, realising that he doesn't need the gems, but he needs his son; even though this scene is fifteen seconds, it also is quite emotional.
I think these scenes would have made the movie a lot better, they are really great imo; but both of them got cut  .
Here are they:
Bilbo plants the acorn: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bgkaTRG9b3Y
Gandalf's speech to Thranduil: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NVHutQQDRFY
What do you guys think? 

[LordDainIronfoot]

I really regret that PJ left such beautifull and meaningfull scenes full of wisdom and dramtic moments out for showing like more Alfrid and Legolas !
Thise scences should ahve beenthe first to be included along with proper Dian Coronation and may some more ofthe Funeral and somethgin like Bard coronation and so much other better stuff!
I have watched the Acron Scene but the Thranduil one I haven't
Thank you ThorinNemesiss for sharing this!

Greetings!