Siege weapons and Castles walls/gates

[Morgul Orc]

I have seen a couple of posts on moddb and here of people who want other siege weapons to be more useful like Siege ladders, Siege Towers and Mines instead of only spamming battering rams to destroy Castle walls and gates.



So here's my suggestion:


1) Castle walls should only be damaged and destroyed by mines .However the Uruk mine berserkers should only damage and destroy normal buildings 

2) Castle gates should only be damaged and destroyed by battering rams, siege hammer trolls and Grond.

3) Catapults should only damage and destroy structures inside the Castle and other defense structures around the Castle.

4) Battering rams and siege trolls should do much less damage to the Castle gates than normal buildings




This way the player will be forced to make more use of the Siege ladders, Siege towers, Mines, Siege hammer trolls and Grond.

[ziqing]

There is still a lot to be improved for the siege/defense system, I guess the engine will be the biggest limitation.
My suggestion is still make siege ram and ladder vulnerable to arrows but get a huge bonus(like the resistance now) when ever they are very close(covered by) friendly hordes.
City wall should provide extra ranged resistance and range for archers garrisoning it

[Walküre]

Or, instead of quite complicated and difficult coding modifications, what if 'simple' siege machines (battering rams) had less damage, and catapults, siege towers and mines had a more powerful and destructive effect?

I too, sometimes, have the feeling of the battering rams being a bit OP, or overused.

[Morgul Orc]

Or, instead of quite complicated and difficult coding modifications, what if 'simple' siege machines (battering rams) had less damage, and catapults, siege towers and mines had a more powerful and destructive effect?

I too, sometimes, have the feeling of the battering rams being a bit OP, or overused.

The issue here isn't just about the battering ram but about the catapult as well. These two siege weapons should do good damage to structures, however they should do almost no damage to walls. Battering rams should do damage to gates however catapults should do almost no damage. All Trolls should do almost no damage to walls and only siege hammer Trolls should do damage to gates.

The reason why I suggested this is because I wanted Castles to be more difficult to breach and for players to only focus on the gate. Otherwise players will not just spam battering rams but also send a few trolls to attack the walls and sending a few catapults to destroy the walls from a far. The siege hammer Trolls are not common use as well because player rather choose the mace or the sword which will make even more use of siege hammer Trolls as well.

[korner]

I really like that idea.

But if you have castle walls that are nearly impossible to breach - wouldn´t that break the balance for those factions who don´t have castle walls at all (Mordor, Isengard, Misty Mountains)??
Again: I like it very much, but I think it would be difficult to balance.

[Morgul Orc]

I really like that idea.

But if you have castle walls that are nearly impossible to breach - wouldn´t that break the balance for those factions who don´t have castle walls at all (Mordor, Isengard, Misty Mountains)??
Again: I like it very much, but I think it would be difficult to balance.

Well the idea of Castles was only in BFME1 and the only factions who had castles are the good guys, Gondor and Rohan. It's the idea that the Evil factions are an siege/assault factions while you can actually be offensive as a good faction, it depends on how the player plays. Evil factions have the advantage of variety of Siege units that can play a big role in the game like Isengard's Siege ladders and Mines and Mordor's Siege Towers, siege hammer Trolls and Grond. As for Misty Mountains I think they are unique in assaulting Castles because Goblins can climb on walls and maybe make the Mountain Giant a unique unit which can damage the walls with the large boulders.

[hoho96]

As for Misty Mountains I think they are unique in assaulting Castles because Goblins can climb on walls and maybe make the Mountain Giant a unique unit which can damage the walls with the large boulders.

It's not possible for the Goblins to climb Castle walls (it's technically not possible). the can however climb camp walls and such "unwalkable" walls.

The goblin's unique siege unit is the goblin sappers which can dig a tunnel from anywhere right into the enemy castle.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-two

[Morgul Orc]

As for Misty Mountains I think they are unique in assaulting Castles because Goblins can climb on walls and maybe make the Mountain Giant a unique unit which can damage the walls with the large boulders.

It's not possible for the Goblins to climb Castle walls (it's technically not possible). the can however climb camp walls and such "unwalkable" walls.

The goblin's unique siege unit is the goblin sappers which can dig a tunnel from anywhere right into the enemy castle.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/edain-mod/news/the-road-to-edain-40-misty-mountains-part-two

That's great! much better than the boring Giant boulder thrower

[hoho96]

Oh that giant boulder thrower will still be there

[helloa2134]

Oh that giant boulder thrower will still be there

On an outpost though, so hopefully they won't be able to be spammed.  I do hope they are effective though, and worth the outpost spot. I mean, they are competing with dragons!  I suppose Dragons are anti-infantry and Giants are anti-structure, but Giants need to be effective enough to justify not just sending out a few trolls instead

[H4lbarad]

I have seen a couple of posts on moddb and here of people who want other siege weapons to be more useful like Siege ladders, Siege Towers and Mines instead of only spamming battering rams to destroy Castle walls and gates.



So here's my suggestion:


1) Castle walls should only be damaged and destroyed by mines .However the Uruk mine berserkers should only damage and destroy normal buildings 

2) Castle gates should only be damaged and destroyed by battering rams, siege hammer trolls and Grond.

3) Catapults should only damage and destroy structures inside the Castle and other defense structures around the Castle.

4) Battering rams and siege trolls should do much less damage to the Castle gates than normal buildings




This way the player will be forced to make more use of the Siege ladders, Siege towers, Mines, Siege hammer trolls and Grond.

It's a very good idea. I spoke about that on moddb a few days ago.

Hear us Edain Team! The siege/defense system must be better ^^
(even if the mod is already excellent ^^)

[Morgul Orc]

Oh that giant boulder thrower will still be there

On an outpost though, so hopefully they won't be able to be spammed.  I do hope they are effective though, and worth the outpost spot. I mean, they are competing with dragons!  I suppose Dragons are anti-infantry and Giants are anti-structure, but Giants need to be effective enough to justify not just sending out a few trolls instead

Yes. I think that every none-castle faction should have a unique way of assaulting castles. Mordor has Siege Towers, Siege hammer Trolls and Grond. Isengard has Siege Ladders and Mines. Misty Mountains has Goblin Sappers and Mountain Giants. It would be great to make Mordor units enter the Siege Tower the same way you would let your units enter a ship so when the Siege Tower reaches the wall, orcs emerge from it like the films. I also think that Mountain Giants should do damage to walls only just like Ents and the most powerful siege weapon should be Isengard's Mine since you need to place the Mine in place and then send an Uruk Berserker to light it.

[H4lbarad]

I actualize this topic, because I think it's very important

Rams are really OP 

[Sir_Stig]

I would support these changes!

[Elite KryPtik]

There are several very large flaws in this idea.

First, you are only considering evil vs good. In the competitive community, most people play random for their faction, and frequently end up with good vs good, evil vs evil, and mirror matches. If you make Catapults do no damage to gates or walls, then Rohan essentially cannot win against another good faction with walls. Their onagers are already so weak its pathetic, and this idea would make Rohan completely useless in siege.

Next, what happens when Gondor or Dwarves have filled all of their wall plots with trebuchets/catapults? If only Mines and Trolls can damage these structures, all it takes is a couple of fire archers on the walls and your castle is unbreachable.

Finally, the notion that Catapults would do no damage to gates or walls is unrealistic and, sorry to be blunt, stupid. Hurling a huge chunk of rock, or a fireball, at a structure is going to do damage, whether its made of wood, stone, or metal. Also, walls are not particularly expensive to rebuild in the current version, and evil armies take a while to re-assemble, so all you have to do is survive the siege, then you can attack the enemy while they are weak and rebuild your castle at the same time.

The 1 idea that I saw here that is really good IMO is to have Rams be really weak against everything if they are alone, but gain a passive armor buff if surrounded by troops. This would simulate cover from archers very well, and would make a lot more sense than having rams that are immune to arrows, like the current version.

Final last note, for those of you suffering from ram spam or ram rush, all you need is 2 battalions of Archers equipped with Fire Arrows, and you can survive any attack made by rams.