[en] Edain Mod > [Edain] Imladris Suggestions

Elrond - Lord of Imladris

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Eldalf:
But we have it within the books themselves! I thought the Lord of the Rings should at least acknowledge the books with the same name? In those books it is said among the wise Elrond possesses a particularly special level of insight. But it seems that this forum is just a justification to remove parts of the character you find do not fit for gameplay reasons. If that is your belief make the argument. Otherwise stop trying to use the lore to tangle itself, it is ultimately inconclusive as the lore of the books also says that Cirdan has more or less given up on Middle Earth and simply waits at the havens for the Elves to depart.

helloa2134:
Tolkien EXPLICITLY said that Cìrdan is the most foresighted of all the elves in Middle Earth, even listing Galadriel and Elrond by name.  Edain draws upon lore from the entirety of Tolkien's legendarium, not just LOTR and the Hobbit.  Yes, most of us think, from a gameplay perspective, that Elronds role within the faction does not fit well with foresight, but that is half of the argument.  We are not tangling the lore, and an explicit statement is extremely conclusive. 

The lore supports The argument that Cìrdan should have foresight.  Foresight also suits Cìrdan's role within the faction from a gameplay perspective as well, though that argument has already been made and I won't repeat it here.

So please, don't be rude just because we disagree with you.

CragLord:

--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 22. Jul 2015, 22:14 ---
Really great suggestion  :)
If you mention Valinor or Aman you always make me happy  :P

The Edain Team could also create an image of a bright Palantír surrounded with an intense radiant Light, since this Seeing Stone is the only one in Middle Earth that can communicate with the one of Eressëa.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Because this isn't part of this thread, this is last my comment about it.
Do you think we need new topic about this "palantir look" or not? Maybe to sum all ideas about it?  ;)  New topic under "Gondor suggestions"?

Eldalf:
But Tolkien's lore is a contradictory and evolving substance. For instance, there remains some debate as to whether Elrond was an Elf Lord, based on the fact that typically Tolkien does not directly refer to him as such. In the hobbit for instance he is called as fair in face as an Elf Lord, as wise as a wizard, and as resolute as a king of Dwarves. Likewise, when the council of Elrond discusses Elf-Lords it notes Glorfidel and excludes Elrond. There is a confusion in Tolkien's writings prior to 1948 as to whether Elrond of Rivendell and Elrond son of Earendil are one and the same. Likewise, there is a similar problem with respect to Glorfidel's return, whether he returned in the third age with the Istari, whether he came in the Second to aid in the resistance to Sauron or even whether he was a different elf entirely. The point that I am trying to make here, is that the legendarium is itself confused and contradictory, especially in the material published by Christopher Tolkien. If we are going to use the lore, it should surely stand that the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings trilogy must hold a higher weighting factor in a practical sense, to enable the management of these contradictory and confusing stories. I was not being rude as you say, merely exasperated, I would like a consistent point of argument, not this jumping around between gameplay and lore. I am an academic by profession, it is impossible to argue without agreeing a proper frame of reference, and we have lacked this almost the entire way through. So thus to reiterate. From the Lord of the Rings we have a direct statement inferring a special level of foresight. In the Hobbit we have a direct statement with respect to the validity of the advice of Elrond with respect to future action. These taken together infer a peculiar ability to divine what will occur. The movies themselves go much further as to visually represent Elrond as possessing full blown waking prophetic vision. These arguments taken together strongly suggest that the power of foresight is an ability or quality that is innate to the identity of the character. Now, gameplay-wise their is an argument that it is unnecessary as their are others means to access the ability. This is something that is an entirely different discussion. I would suggest removing one of those other sources in favour of giving it to a character who in the Hobbit preforms a role in which one of the primary purposes of his character is to provide a level of insight and guidance to future action.

Walküre:

--- Zitat von: CragLord am 23. Jul 2015, 10:03 ---
--- Zitat von: DieWalküre am 22. Jul 2015, 22:14 ---
Really great suggestion  :)
If you mention Valinor or Aman you always make me happy  :P

The Edain Team could also create an image of a bright Palantír surrounded with an intense radiant Light, since this Seeing Stone is the only one in Middle Earth that can communicate with the one of Eressëa.

--- Ende Zitat ---
Because this isn't part of this thread, this is last my comment about it.
Do you think we need new topic about this "palantir look" or not? Maybe to sum all ideas about it?  ;)  New topic under "Gondor suggestions"?

--- Ende Zitat ---

Ok, I support this idea :)


--- Zitat von: Eldalf am 23. Jul 2015, 11:06 ---
Now, gameplay-wise their is an argument that it is unnecessary as their are others means to access the ability. This is something that is an entirely different discussion. I would suggest removing one of those other sources in favour of giving it to a character who in the Hobbit preforms a role in which one of the primary purposes of his character is to provide a level of insight and guidance to future action.

--- Ende Zitat ---

There would be so much to write about Tolkien and contradictions, obviously in a positive way; but this is not the right place.
Now we are focusing on Elrond as a character, but, most importantly, as a hero of the Edain Mod, and this aspect makes the gameplay issues fundamental as well.

It is well known that Elrond has the ability of Foresight, and it is totally acceptable.
But, since Rivendell will implement the aspect of Foresight already in three different manners (Círdan's Omniscience, Palantír of Elostirion in the Lindon watchtower and Gildor's Vision), and since the role of Elrond (Hero and Unit Supporter) as the leader of the faction is greater than the other heroes', I would say that it would be a bit unnecessary and redundant adding another foresight power to Elrond; even though we know for sure that he has that precise capability.

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