Earth Shaker is it fair!? :)

[Tienety]

Maybe dwarves do not need more siege unit. Why not just make two different basic siege units in all subfactions:

Erebor
1) Earth Shaker(with standard attack, he will be equivalent of battering ram)
2) Erebor catapult(same as now)

Iron Hills
1) Battering ram with dwarven crew
2) Ballista

Ered Luin
1) Demolisher(same as now)
2) Ered Luin catapult(same as now)

What do you think about this?

[TiberiusOgden]

I think that we have three options:

• Remove earth shaker.
• Add earth shaker (or something what will be the same) for Iron Hills and Ered Luin, too.
• Tienety's proposal - more variations for all Dwarven kingdoms, but with the similar siege effect.

[Draco100000]

I think that we have three options:

• Remove earth shaker.
• Add earth shaker (or something what will be the same) for Iron Hills and Ered Luin, too.
• Tienety's proposal - more variations for all Dwarven kingdoms, but with the similar siege effect.

Another option, Dont change anything, I love the siege sistem and variety of the 3 Dwarven Kingdoms, so I dont want other factions having earthshakers, Only must be usable by erebor, and remove it have no sense. the earthsaker adds a unique siege machine, for the faction who must have more variety on this. Other factions like Ered Luin have incredible bonuses to infantry and Heros, and The dmg of ironhills units its simply insane, so let My erebor dwarves have  their Unique feature thx.

[TiberiusOgden]

I love the siege sistem and variety of the 3 Dwarven Kingdoms

Which variety? As far as I know, all dwarven factions have the same number of heroes, units, buildings, and only Erebor has additional one siege unit. Is it variety?

and remove it have no sense

Why? Personally I think that it's very reasonable - have you checked previous discussion?

for the faction who must have more variety on this

Why? I think that all factions should have the same conditions or not? By the way - have you ever played with Gloin with his leadership for siege machines? Where units have bonuses against structures and where are big hammers as a upgrade?

let My erebor dwarves have  their Unique feature

And why only Erebor can have additional unit and not rest of Dwarven kingdoms as well? It does not make sense.

[Melkor Bauglir]

Well, for example ered luin has tons of additional heroes. So the dwarven factions have certain differences and the earth shaker is definitely the smallest of problems the dwarves have. I'm sure one can argue about this quite a while if this is a valid argument and so on, but fact is that there are a lot of differences between the sub-factions (e.g. the way their heroes are performing their roles is varying massively). I therefore must say that I can abolutely support Draco1000000's point.
Also: If the earth shaker is a gimmick (one might disagree here, but I think it is), then Erebor hasn't a real additional unit, so there is no single disadvantage between the factions.

Greetings
Melkor Bauglir

[TiberiusOgden]

Well, for example ered luin has tons of additional heroes.

Which ones?
All Dwarven faction has six heroes. Any other hero is just summonable hero and has some resctrictions.

So the dwarven factions have certain differences

Yes, I completely agree, we should focus it and give some balance to them as well, but through the comparison with equal numbers. Not when some unit is just extra unit.

Also: If the earth shaker is a gimmick (one might disagree here, but I think it is), then Erebor hasn't a real additional unit, so there is no single disadvantage between the factions.

Even if there will be something what is completely useless, so technically it's still additional unit in comparison with the rest of Dwarven kingdoms.

All three Dwarven kingdoms have:

• Three standard units
• One elite unit
• Veterans
• Six standard heroes
• One cavalry
• Two siege machines (except Erebor - we can find three siege machines there)
• Three units available on the outpost (Lake Town/Dale)

Sorry, but numbers are still very clear.

[Melkor Bauglir]

I give up. We're are achieving absolutely nothing here, because the both of us have given their statements and further talking would ultimately be a repeat.

[TiberiusOgden]

I give up.

That's a pity.
But I think that we are considering similarly.
Firstly - I want to deal with exact numbers. And some earth shaker does not care me. To be honestly.
When we will get the same numbers, we can then compare them and find if some number (or better say hero/unit) has for instance higher importance than hero/unit in the rest of Dwarven factions. I think that it will be easier, cause we will have the same numbers (things) to compare them and find problematic issues than work with numbers where simply one faction (Erebor) has such clear advantage (even if that unit is completely useless).
I hope that you are able to understand me.

[LordDainIronfoot]

I support Tiberius and Tienity!An extra unit is an extra unit!All dwarven realms should have both differences and balance! :-) And all Draco says is basically that he loves "his"  "perfect" Erebot and want it to be the strongest and more uniqe than other's!While each fraction has its strengths and weaknesses an extra unit is no fair for the other! :-)

[Draco100000]

I support Tiberius and Tienity!An extra unit is an extra unit!All dwarven realms should have both differences and balance! :-) And all Draco says is basically that he loves "his"  "perfect" Erebot and what it to be the strongest and more uniqe than other's!While each fraction has its strengths and weaknesses an extra unit is no fair for the other! :-)

LOL I mean LOL WTF OMG I have no expressions to explain how I am feelling, well firstly you cant say that this made erebor the stronger because Ered Luin is OP because of Heros, and Ironhills Infantry is extreamly strong, so WTF, Now erebor with medium infantry and 1 damn non-used unit have to be deleted? Camon, I simply love their use I mean, make an earthquake with this siege machines is very cool. Im not worried about this, because i still have the choice to use my mighty catapults far away more powerfull than any other faction. Pls check firstly Ered Luin heros than this shit, camon no one use erebor online, all people use Ered Luin because of their damn heros, OP with Fate rune. This is incredible, well Im agree with Iron Ballistas, camon even with the ridicoulous ram riders, but the earthshackers? camon this is pointless in comparison with a lot of balance bugs that the mod have now. This earthshackers are simply cool, and dont represent any advantage ¿WHY? Because I have damn catapults with high damage and this will destroy entire bases in seconds.  So pls, stop saying that this make Erebor the strongest faction because its a enormous lie. before again start the same discussion, check this "advantage" and try to destroy a damn farm. You will see what "advantage" is this.
I call any creator to share his opinion here, Must be deleted earthshackers?

[LordDainIronfoot]

First of all I have never said that Erebor is the strongest!It is clear that the strongest is Ered Luin cuz of its tough infantry and OP heroes!So I will not bother to explain myself more than I have already did few times!
 :-)
P.S.Read my comments properly before jump to.conclusion! :-)

[Draco100000]

And all Draco says is basically that he loves "his"  "perfect" Erebot and want it to be the strongest and more uniqe than other's¡

Nothing to say. I took the comment in that way, ( i want erebor the strongest)
Oh, and this earthshackers make erebor the strongest okok . I have understand this from your comment.
I wont post in this thread anymore, nothing more to say. -_-

[LordDainIronfoot]

Read what I have said that you want Erebor to be the strongest I do not want it to all I want is equality between the three ! :-) And I have never said the Earth Shaker make them the strongest all I said was that an extra unit is an extra unit and there should be balance either new Unit for others or to remove the Shaker! Post if you want no one is forcing you but before you answer read properly and answer politely with reason and facts to defend your opinion properly! :-) Have a nice day :-) :-)

[Walküre]

I support Tiberius and Tienity!An extra unit is an extra unit!All dwarven realms should have both differences and balance! :-) And all Draco says is basically that he loves "his"  "perfect" Erebot and want it to be the strongest and more uniqe than other's!While each fraction has its strengths and weaknesses an extra unit is no fair for the other! :-)

I support Tienety's idea too, since we are not talking about Dwarven 'Subfactions', but Dwarven 'Factions', with relevant differences that define them, given also the different physical environments in which these realms were established; still remaining, obviously, factions of a common Dwarven Culture.

I personally like the ballistas and the Ram Riders concepts, also because they would symbolise very well what the Iron Hills are at that particular moment, an impressive warfare factory with a lot of creativity, militarily speaking 
I'm generally always for innovative (not too much strange or grotesque) concepts that give us a richer and more diverse representation of the different elements of the respective factions.

This is incredible, well Im agree with Iron Ballistas, camon even with the ridicoulous ram riders, but the earthshackers? camon this is pointless in comparison with a lot of balance bugs that the mod have now.

I find instead the Ram Riders one of the most characteristic concepts of BOTFA (apart from the other over the top things) and very interesting, that could explain wisely what means the Dwarves of the Iron Hills use in their realm/environment.
I personally think that this concept would fit very well in the Edain Mod, as for the other BOTFA elements that were rightly implemented in the game (Lord Dáin's concept and Thorin's royal armour).   

[Draco100000]

Im agree to add new units I only dont want to see removed the earthshackers, with no real reasons. But dont put in danger the existence of the earthshackers to support the appear of new units. Completely agree with Tienety, and Die Walkure.